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ParanoidObsessive 06/04/18 3:50:40 AM #39:	The Wave Master posted... I guess my problem is that I don't like being preached to in a movie. It's my problem with a movie like, Million Dollar Baby. The Last Jedi spends 2 plus hours telling me that there is no hope, that heroes aren't always who you think they are, and that waiting for that hope is just dumb. (Which every adult knows that.) Then it pisses all over that with the ending. Star Wars has always done that, though. As early as A New Hope, the films are constantly setting up strawmen that it proceeds to knock down. Whether it's Uncle Owen trying to discourage Luke from wanting to be more than a farmer, or Yoda not wanting to teach him, or Luke wanting to redeem Vader while Obi-Wan and Yoda keep telling him its impossible, up to Vader and the Emperor telling him the Dark Side is stronger and he WILL turn. Subverting the implied cynical moral has pretty much been Star Wars 101 from day one. The Wave Master posted... At least have the convictions to say, "Maybe old, crazy, hermit, Luke Skywalker is right?" Nope, he was wrong and he spent years of his life wasting away just to piss away at the end. You've just described Obi-Wan's entire character arc. Obi-Wan and Yoda both write Anakin off in RotS. They make almost no effort to redeem him, and then fuck off to hide, allowing Vader and the Emperor to do terrible things for 20 years while they live in almost total isolation in incredibly shitty places (at least Luke picked a NICE island). How much suffering could they have prevented if they'd only tried SLIGHTLY harder to pull Anakin back from the Dark Side instead of having a boring 40 minute lightsaber duel on a volcano? How many deaths could have been prevented? Luke loses hope, Rey rekindles that hope, thus taking the same narrative place he once held himself (you could easily say the title of A New Hope literally refers to him specifically - Rey is basically The Even Newer Hope). He's her Obi-Wan, Kylo is her Vader. Lather, rinse, repeat. The Wave Master posted... There were very few answers to questions like, "Who is Snoke and why does he want Rey alive? He answers the latter question himself - he wants her to lure Luke out of hiding (or at least to tell him where he his), and thus achieve the goal he's had for like 20+ years. As for the former, I assume they'll answer it either in the next movie (which is acceptable), or in some tie-in novel eventually (which is bullshit, but which is also way too common for every franchise that has an active novel line these days). --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family <cite>ParanoidObsessive posted [p:902515481] in Geekmaster... [t:76661006]...</cite> <quote><cite>The Wave Master posted...</cite> <quote>I guess my problem is that I don't like being preached to in a movie. It's my problem with a movie like, Million Dollar Baby. The Last Jedi spends 2 plus hours telling me that there is no hope, that heroes aren't always who you think they are, and that waiting for that hope is just dumb. (Which every adult knows that.) Then it pisses all over that with the ending.</quote> Star Wars has always done that, though. As early as A New Hope, the films are constantly setting up strawmen that it proceeds to knock down. Whether it's Uncle Owen trying to discourage Luke from wanting to be more than a farmer, or Yoda not wanting to teach him, or Luke wanting to redeem Vader while Obi-Wan and Yoda keep telling him its impossible, up to Vader and the Emperor telling him the Dark Side is stronger and he WILL turn. Subverting the implied cynical moral has pretty much been Star Wars 101 from day one. <cite>The Wave Master posted...</cite> <quote>At least have the convictions to say, "Maybe old, crazy, hermit, Luke Skywalker is right?" Nope, he was wrong and he spent years of his life wasting away just to piss away at the end.</quote> You've just described Obi-Wan's entire character arc. Obi-Wan and Yoda both write Anakin off in RotS. They make almost no effort to redeem him, and then fuck off to hide, allowing Vader and the Emperor to do terrible things for 20 years while they live in almost total isolation in incredibly shitty places (at least Luke picked a NICE island). How much suffering could they have prevented if they'd only tried SLIGHTLY harder to pull Anakin back from the Dark Side instead of having a boring 40 minute lightsaber duel on a volcano? How many deaths could have been prevented? Luke loses hope, Rey rekindles that hope, thus taking the same narrative place he once held himself (you could easily say the title of A New Hope literally refers to him specifically - Rey is basically The Even Newer Hope). He's her Obi-Wan, Kylo is her Vader. Lather, rinse, repeat. <cite>The Wave Master posted...</cite> <quote>There were very few answers to questions like, "Who is Snoke and why does he want Rey alive?</quote> He answers the latter question himself - he wants her to lure Luke out of hiding (or at least to tell him where he his), and thus achieve the goal he's had for like 20+ years. As for the former, I assume they'll answer it either in the next movie (which is acceptable), or in some tie-in novel eventually (which is bullshit, but which is also way too common for every franchise that has an active novel line these days). --- "Wall of Text'D!" --- oldskoolplayr76 "POwned again." --- blight family</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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