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TopicJust watched the recent ContraPoints video on JK Rowling
joe40001
05/05/23 12:08:13 AM
#165:


Antifar posted...
Genocide doesn't have to entail murder. Here's how Merriam-Webster defines the term:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/genocide
: the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group

Here's a quote from the man who coined the term genocide:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions
More often it [Genocide] refers to a coordinated plan aimed at destruction of the essential foundations of the life of national groups so that these groups wither and die like plants that have suffered a blight. The end may be accomplished by the forced disintegration of political and social institutions, of the culture of the people, of their language, their national feelings and their religion. It may be accomplished by wiping out all basis of personal security, liberty, health and dignity. When these means fail the machine gun can always be utilized as a last resort.

Further down the page, from John Cox, Historian:
Genocide aims to not only eliminate individual members of the targeted group but to destroy the group's ability to maintain its social and cultural cohesion and, thus, its existence as a group.
Because perpetrators very rarely provide explicit statements of genocidal intent, this intent can be uncovered by examining policies, actions, and outcomes, as well as the guiding ideology.

I understand that the term often evokes imagery of the Nazis, much like "concentration camp." But the Nazis weren't the only ones to have concentration camps, nor the only perpetrators of genocide. It doesn't always require ovens.

To me, the combination of:
* bans on gender affirming care, including for adults: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/22/health/transgender-adults-treatment-bans.html
* bans on the discussion of LGBT topics in school: https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/book-bans-dont-say-gay-bill-lgbtq-kids-feel-erased-classroom-rcna15819
* bans on gender nonconformity in public: https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160784530/tennessee-ban-public-drag-shows-transgender-health-care-youth
* bans on trans women competing in sports: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/20/trans-sports-ban-us-house-republicans-bill
* bans on people using the restroom they identify with: https://thehill.com/homenews/lgbtq/3978481-kansas-enacts-sweeping-transgender-bathroom-bill/
* boycotts of brands who include trans people in their campaigns: https://www.vox.com/money/2023/4/12/23680135/bud-light-boycott-dylan-mulvaney-travis-tritt-trans
point to a the removal of trans people from public life, the forcing of trans people back into the closet. The destruction of trans people as a group.

What do you think they point to?

I'll admit, I've always understood genocide to mean "mass murder". I would be interested to see if at one time it specifically required mass murder. I do think it's moderately safe to say that many people will interpret it that way. (Yet another reason I'm always glad to remove ambiguity).

I'd have to go through each link, read the article, and the actual language of the proposed law to be able to say confidently if I believe those are accurate characterizations and if in aggregate that amounts to genocide. Skimming a few (from my perspective) I think you are being somewhat imprecise in your characterization as many of the things you call bans would likely be more accurately characterized as "limiting or restricting under specific contexts". Where as ban generally implies something more sweeping or universal.

That said, again just from skimming some of the articles, I do think in spirit you are characterizing things in good faith manner, even if you may be omitting what I think to be relevant context. So I appreciate that a lot, and honestly applaud you in that regard. Few people share sources or state their argument as calmly and precisely as you just have, and I sincerely think that's great and wish more people communicated exactly as you just did.

Perhaps later I'll go one by one and read the specifics (I try not to spend too much time per day on gamefaqs, and to do justice to those articles like I should before I finalize any response, it would require a fair amount of time). That being said, with regard to your question of genocide, if you define it as "the deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group" then while I wouldn't personally agree that "literal genocide" is an accurate characterization of what is going on, I would be comfortable saying that such a thing is an arguable (if perhaps rhetorically excessive) characterization.

That said, would you meet me at the point of acknowledging republicans are not literally tying to mass murder of LGBTQ+ people?

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