Lurker > pezzicle

nov is gonna be a mess of a month

---

Tribe Time!

UF8 posted...

this topic sucks and is now about the nz general election

labour's got it pretty much

i party voted greens just because

locally, the new national person here doesn't seem nearly as good as the one who's quitting and i hope he doesn't win... though really all the candidates here are hit or miss

Why would we talk about that it's basically already over. Labor either gonna win outright or form government with the greens

---

Tribe Time!

red sox 777 posted...

So, I do think Trump's coming down with coronavirus and recovery injects some chaos into the election, which Trump badly needed to overcome what became a large polling deficit after the debate. Not sure that it helps him rather than hurts him, but at this point he needs max chaos.

I don't get a lot of Trump's plays like fearmongering with suburban voters, going all-in on fracking, etc. I thought one of the smartest things he did in 2016 was say that Bernie's diagnosis of the state of the union is exactly right, and he only disagreed with the proposed remedy. Trump needs to find a message like that that resonates with swing voters.

I agree. It seems he has just doubled down on his base as opposed to trying to maintain the swing voters he grabbed last election from the Dems

---

Tribe Time!

Looks like he is loosing ground

---

Tribe Time!

Haven't check in in a while. Catching up was a good way to start my morning. Glad you're still going.

---

Tribe Time!

I definitely don't see how that was supposed to expand his base

---

Tribe Time!

Does that matter tho? National polling is kind of useless when you could win nationally and lose the election.

I'd suspect that polling numbers in the middle ~10 states would be more important? No?

---

Tribe Time!

Too close to call still I'd say. Gonna come down to 6 states or so like it always does.

---

Tribe Time!

I think it ended up being a bad idea becasue it changed the result but that's only a hindsight 20/20 thing

---

Tribe Time!

he is still in a good place RE numbers

he is close in florida and texas by polls, and is leading or close in all the battleground places

its gonna come down to who wins Mich, Minn, and Ohio again

---

Tribe Time!

What is effectively a puzzle game, a Zelda game that isn't breath of the wild, two 2D platformers and a 3D platformer

---

Tribe Time!

What an interesting top 5

---

Tribe Time!

Happy belated

God I am old

---

Tribe Time!

There is word that they will get re added soon by the original publisher?

---

Tribe Time!

Guess I'll have to buy them now

They were just on sale too but I passed because I "could wait"

Ugh

---

Tribe Time!

TheArkOfTurus posted...

GP7: Portal 2

---

Tribe Time!

i was a "trump could win" guy in 2016

I don't see it this time

---

Tribe Time!

XIII_rocks posted...

GP6: Rayman Legends

---

Tribe Time!

ctesjbuvf posted...

Yeah, I've seen the good/bad person stuff thrown around a lot on the net, but this is a fair take.

The good/bad stuff is such a weird take to me. I never got the impression I was supposed to pick a side

---

Tribe Time!

MetalmindStats posted...

GP5: Portal 2

---

Tribe Time!

Manual tag

---

Tribe Time!

XIII_rocks posted...

GP4: Rayman Legends

---

Tribe Time!

Cavedweller2000 posted...

GP3: Rayman Legends

---

Tribe Time!

Thumbs up

---

Tribe Time!

ZenOfThunder posted...

GP2: Rayman Legends

---

Tribe Time!

Cavedweller2000 posted...

+10 Rayman Legends
+9 Mario Kart 8
+8 The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
+7 Portal 2
+6 Super Mario Odyssey
+5 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
+4 Super Mario Galaxy 2
+3 Celeste
+2 Super Mario 3D World
+1 Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

GP1: Rayman Legends

---

Tribe Time!

Ya that's some Nintendo

---

Tribe Time!

WiggumFan267 posted...

Immune: Shovel Knight
Boot: Mario Kart 8

---

Tribe Time!

Keltiq posted...

Immune: Hollow Knight
Boot: Sid Meiers Civilization V

---

Tribe Time!

Immune: Shovel Knight
Boot: Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

---

Tribe Time!

XIII_rocks posted...

Mirror's Edge was my first ever Platinum

This. Plus it wasn't easy

---

Tribe Time!

Keltiq posted...

Immune: Hollow Knight
Immune: The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild

Boot: Mass Effect 2
Boot: Sid Meiers Civilization V

---

Tribe Time!

ctesjbuvf posted...

The issue is mostly that transgendered people have close to no represenation in video games, in particular triple a games this one. What they want is basically to be treated just like everyone else more than anything. This game has the best intentions about it I do not doubt, but Lev's story is an extreme story of trans people not being accepted where they come from, and that's not the representation you want at this point in time. It's a shame it has to be that way, but it is.

I just want to clarify that my previous post wasn't directed at you. I disagree with you on a bunch of things about the game, but that fortunately doesn't have to be personal.

For sure man I def don't have any beef with you at all you've been nothing but chill with me even tho we don't see eye to eye

---

Tribe Time!

PrivateBiscuit1 posted...

I was replying to SEP about why I may have been "obnoxious" towards you, as they decided to involve me despite the fact I haven't even posted in this topic for a week or so, and then got defensive over my one word response after doing so.

Valid. I also legit don't think I did anything wrong in that original topic. I didn't think you were making very good points and I got absolutely trounced for even suggesting as such. I'm allowed to think your arguments are poor without being told my posts are trash and basically being run out of your topic.

---

Tribe Time!

I have not altered anyone's argument in either topic. I disagreed with your argument in the other topic. I have not engaged with you at all in this topic, nor have I really engaged with anyone's argument in this topic. I've stated my own opinion about things.

I also have not been manipulative of anything. You made points. I read them in a certain way and disagreed with them. That is literally the extent of our interaction.

Nor did I post a dozen messages at you, I was responding to a completely different user about how I didn't think I was misrepresenting your point, then you responded to a single thing I said and called my other posts trash and completely dismissed any discussion I was attempting to have. (as a side note, one of the thing you said in that topic I had issue with you doubled down on, and then you were still wrong about and when I pointed that out, you legit never responded at all to it - and I'm the one being dishonest?)

I don't care if you don't like the game. I'm having a discussion with people about it. If you can't handle someone reading your post and responding to it and asking you to flesh your ideas out, I dunno?

I have not once called anyone trash, nor their posts trash. I have not once tried to stifle conversation or discredit anyone's posts because they are "not arguing in good faith". Nor have I blocked people because I didn't like what they had to say. Like, you're posting at me here when I haven't engaged with you in any capacity for like 3 weeks. Come on man.


---

Tribe Time!

...o..k...?

i'm literally just writing out my own thoughts on the game. I never once said that someone can't dislike the game

edit: weird, that ulti post was deleted

edit 2:oh wait. he blocked me

jfc wow. and im being obtuse and ridiculous in these topics? this board is insane. i'm literally discussing with people and they disagree with me so they block me or tell me my posts are trash etc

what a joke of a community

---

Tribe Time!

same i just finished season 1 yesterday

its decent. def slow but i dont mind

---

Tribe Time!

redrocket posted...

So would you say this is a more central/important theme than revenge is bad?

100% I think that "revenge is bad" being your key takeaway from the game is pretty shallow. I don't think revenge bad is a central theme really at all and is more used at a catalyst to tell a story about sympathy and understanding

---

Tribe Time!

See, and I'd disagree. It does exactly what it wants to do. It wants you to dislike her. It wants to give you a single piece of her story and have you vilify her because of it.

It wants you to play as Ellie next and move though her part of the story so that when you get to Abby, there are actual stakes at play with her part of the story.

That's the crux of the game. The entire structure is purposeful. It's made the way it is made to elicit feelings of anger when you play as Abby. You are supposed to not want to engage with her story. Just as in real life, when someone does something or says something or believes something that you despise, we don't engage with them. We dismiss them.

However, it is only thru engagement that we actually start to develop a better idea of their motivations, why they believe what they believe, and what has happened to them that has created this kind of behaviour. It humanized them.

This entire game is calling for us all to put aside our initial reactions to people we disagree with, people we have extreme negative emotions toward, and look at them as complex humans who are motivated to operate in the way they do because of an entire life or moments of pain and joy that sculpt them into the person you're interacting with now.

There is a strong parallel between Abby as your own personal "outgroup," and all the game is doing is asking you to engage with her story to see what happens for you. If you can start to see her on a different way

What is most interesting, is that if you can't, the game is actually most critical of you, as you are engaging with the exact narrow mindedness and miopic viewpoint that the game is critical of. Of refusing to engage with someone (and their thoughts and beliefs and motivations) because of a single act that you have found vile, but they obviously found justified.

---

Tribe Time!

The only real reason I've come across is that Abby tortures Joel. Which just seems super flimsy to me. Joel tortures people in the first game, we don't care. Ellie tortures Nora. We don't care. We connect with the motivations and reasons for why Joel and Ellie engage with certain behaviour, but just outright refuse to do so for Abby.

It's a very interesting disconnect for me, I legit can't think of any other reason for it being a "reason" then people just being sad that Joel died. It's a post apocalyptic setting, people get murdered in all sorts of awful ways all the time, and both of our beloved main characters engage in torture that is at least in the same ballpark as what Abby did.

Hell, you even have a topic on the main board about most pleasing death and 2nd place is Nora.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/202466-the-last-of-us-part-ii/78805929

Why is it Nora? Why is she so hated, what did she do? I can only imagine Nora is high up because of how she is killed, because she has the anger taken out in her in the way that we wanted. Which is extremely interesting from a thematic standpoint of in/out group, as we are largely happy and okay with what Ellie does because we understand it, but even after understanding WHY Abby does what she does, we can't develop any sort of connection or sympathy for her

I just don't understand how that works for people

---

Tribe Time!

I certainly agree that if you don't connect in any way to Abby, the game isn't going to land

But I also don't really get how you can't, even a little bit.

Some pacing issues and editing issues aside, I honestly don't get how you can play her entire section of the game and not develop at least some sympathy for her life

---

Tribe Time!

EASY VOTE FORM:
Boot: Persona 5
Boot: Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

Immune: Shovel Knight
Immune: The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds

---

Tribe Time!

azuarc posted...

1-3 was the point where I broke down and used a guide because I couldn't figure out where to go during the investigations. It was just run back and forth across the entire studio 20 times until the game decides you've triggered the next event in the sequence.

A shame, too, because once we broke that dam, it was hard to make myself not use a guide for everything else.

I've just started 2-2 and yuuuuuuip I had this experience as well with 1-3.

Right now I'm trying to only look stuff up when I am down to my last "life" in court and then only if I am truly stuck and have no idea what to do during investigations.

---

Tribe Time!

Man that's a lot of Nintendo

---

Tribe Time!

I dunno, 5 years of anger and resentment can make you do some pretty wacky things

---

Tribe Time!

davidponte posted...

I don't think we're talking about open spoilers just yet, but thankfully I skipped over your post!

I feel like that's the second time you've done that in this topic already.

apologies

---

Tribe Time!

redrocket posted...

Look, Im normally all for not letting a single event define a persons entire life. But there is somewhere a line that exists, that once crossed, makes that fair. Im pretty comfortable with saying that cold blooded torture-murder is on the far side of that line.

sure. and i would agree without any context

but when you learn of the world that these people exist in, the violence of it, it certainly shifts the way I look at it.
and then when you learn of who this person is and why they have engaged with the act, it shifts the way i look at it again.

i might not agree with what abby did, but i can still have a level of understanding of why that is, and that changes how i look at her entire character. thats the point, to me. the shift. not how much of a shift it is, but that there is one. that this person can do something totally heinous, and then when one understands the context of that act, your opinion of them changes and shifts.

its asking us to not be so black and white. its asking us to remember that context exists. its asking us to remember that people live entire lives and have entire existences that shape the context of actions, regardless of how awful those actions might be.

---

Tribe Time!

also, we really need to figure out a statute of limitations on spoilers. technically ned has been dead since 1996

thats longer then aerith

---

Tribe Time!

its not a perfect comparison, but it most certainly isn't "not at all the same thing"

---

Tribe Time!

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Based on what I've heard about the plot, I assume Neil Druckmann just saw the franchise as a method of telling whatever post-apocalyptic story he wants to tell, without realizing and/or caring about how much people got attached to the characters of the first game. I at least applaud him for doing whatever he wanted, especially considering this was his baby in the first place, but the backlash is definitely understandable if not flat-out deserved.

I disagree. It's like stopping game of thrones cause ned dies

---

Tribe Time!