Lurker > Thatuser

billcom6 posted...

Thatuser posted...

They are doing something, its just not what you'd probably like. But you cannot say they are doing nothing.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act would do away with school gun free zones and allow citizens with concealed carry permits to do so in any state of the Union regardless of the state the permit was issued in. Would this have prevented what happened today if it were already law? I don't know. But claiming the government is doing nothing is objectively false.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"concealed+carry+reciprocity+act"%5D%7D

Yes this would totally prevent school shootings.

(that was sarcasm)

Possibly, yes. Maybe the shooter would think twice. Maybe the casualties would be lower if he was stopped sooner.

Anteaterking posted...

Thatuser posted...

Do they meet the legal requirements? No. They're minors.

I can't speak to this specific shooting, as they haven't released enough details yet, but I don't see how just allowing for the handful of adults at a school to carry a weapon substantially changes the scenario. There have been school shootings in schools with armed guards. Now you have the small % of teachers who want to carry guns, an even smaller % of which are going to go hunt down the shooter. And honestly, when I was in high school, some of the teachers who advocated most for being able to be armed in response to events like this were also the teachers who we thought were most likely to shoot up the school themselves.

Also, I don't see this bill as being more than tangentially related to school shootings. Do you think people would have been saying "How could this happen?" less if only 10 people died and the shooter was taken down by a faculty member?

Maybe the person would think twice knowing there was even a chance staff would return fire?

tote_all posted...

Thatuser posted...

I can only speak for myself.

tote_all posted...

Even if statistics say you'll shoot innocent kids in this scenario?

I didn't know this was an issue of humility. If anything, your topic's been enlightening, TC.

I'm not saying teachers should be given a gun and go through training as a mandatory part of their employment. Should they be interested in doing so, it should be an option. You make a lot of assumptions on peoples motivations and how they'll react. Not everyone is a panicky idiot who will cause collateral damage. What if said teacher had military training? What if they're just a level headed person with good intentions? You paint teachers as saintly individuals with no capacity to harm a fly, like their passion for teaching immediately makes them am invalid in this situation. I think that's insulting to them.

E32005 posted...

Thatuser posted...

People shouldn't own or carry a weapon unless they are prepared to use them in exactly this scenario.

that may be, but its simply not the truth.

I can only speak for myself.

tote_all posted...

We are talking in the setting of a school shooting. School shooters are often students or former students. So, in this scenario, teachers are literally supposed to shoot their students. Literally.

At that point they are criminals seeking to cause you or others bodily harm. Its kill or be killed at that point. Or let them harm others due to inaction.

Hexenherz posted...

Federal government employees and military go through active shooter training on a fairly regular basis, but we're taught to fight back as a last resort. Personal firearms are not permitted on base and definitely not in work centers.

Not every state allows concealed carry and some don't even allow open carry (at least without permits), either.

I would think today's situation would be considered last resort as defenseless people were shot.

In my state, you are supposed to, by law, escape if at all possible, before using your gun in self defense. However, defense of others and their ability, or inability, to escape is also considered. Shooting this guy would've been ok under the law here.

E32005 posted...

if you think adequately handling a firearm and dealing with a life or death 'active shooter' situation are the same thing, its no wonder you don't understand.

People shouldn't own or carry a weapon unless they are prepared to use them in exactly this scenario. Until you're in it you don't know how things will play out. I'd rather have a chance of stopping them then hiding defenseless.

tote_all posted...

Is there a change in laws being proposed so real estate agents or attorneys can shoot their students?

I infer you assume because a lawful citizen happens to be a teacher and carry a gun they will ultimately kill their students. Is that the point you're trying to make? My point is that teachers, like other professionals, are legal adults that can carry firearms if they meet the legal requirements to do so. So why not in their place of business? Again, you assume they'll kill their students just because they happen to be there.

E32005 posted...

ah yes. armed teachers. fantastic.

Teachers are citizens, many citizens are armed having met the legal requirements of their state with the interest of being able to protect themselves. Would you make this statement about your real estate agent or attorney?

tote_all posted...

TC: You can't say the government isn't doing anything to put out this fire. You see here, they are pouring gasoline on it. You may not like it. Is it gonna help? I don't know, but saying they aren't doing anything is objectively false.

I disagree with your assessment. I support the Act and hope it passes.

Anteaterking posted...

Do you support high school students being able to carry guns in school?

Do they meet the legal requirements? No. They're minors.

Turtlemayor333 posted...

Oklahoma schools go on 4-day weeks so teachers can work at Walmart on Mondays to make rent

https://boingboing.net/2018/02/07/this-is-not-ok.html

Isn't that nice? So after the teachers work at Walmart to barely make rent, they're expected to return to class packing heat to prevent the next mass shooting tragedy. This is the future Republicans want.

I'm not saying people have to do anything. Ifvthey choose to carry for their protection, that should be their prerogative.

As far as the financial disparity, they are free to seek another profession.

gbpxl posted...

Thatuser posted...

gbpxl posted...

EnterTheTekken posted...

gbpxl posted...

Thatuser posted...

They are doing something, its just not what you'd probably like. But you cannot say they are doing nothing.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act would do away with school gun free zones and allow citizens with concealed carry permits to do so in any state of the Union regardless of the state the permit was issued in. Would this have prevented what happened today if it were already law? I don't know. But claiming the government is doing nothing is objectively false.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"concealed+carry+reciprocity+act"%5D%7D

It's probably the only effective thing next to banning them entirely. But I ask you, would you rather live in a world where everyone is armed, or no one is?

I would like to live in a world where no one is armed, but that usually ends up with the wrong people being armed. It's more of a "safe than sorry" deal.

How would the bad guys get guns if they're illegal? Wouldn't a complete ban allow the ATF to conduct sting operations on any potential buyers?

You can't uninvent something by making it illegal. The knowledge to make them isn't some closely guarded secret held only by big manufacturers. If there's a market, there will be production.

The man who killed a police commander in Chicago yesterday had an illegal 30 round magazine as well as a defaced, illegal gun.

the gun was likely purchased in a Republican state with loose gun laws

Proof? Either way removing a serial number on a weapon is a crime.

gbpxl posted...

EnterTheTekken posted...

gbpxl posted...

Thatuser posted...

They are doing something, its just not what you'd probably like. But you cannot say they are doing nothing.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act would do away with school gun free zones and allow citizens with concealed carry permits to do so in any state of the Union regardless of the state the permit was issued in. Would this have prevented what happened today if it were already law? I don't know. But claiming the government is doing nothing is objectively false.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"concealed+carry+reciprocity+act"%5D%7D

It's probably the only effective thing next to banning them entirely. But I ask you, would you rather live in a world where everyone is armed, or no one is?

I would like to live in a world where no one is armed, but that usually ends up with the wrong people being armed. It's more of a "safe than sorry" deal.

How would the bad guys get guns if they're illegal? Wouldn't a complete ban allow the ATF to conduct sting operations on any potential buyers?

You can't uninvent something by making it illegal. The knowledge to make them isn't some closely guarded secret held only by big manufacturers. If there's a market, there will be production.

The man who killed a police commander in Chicago yesterday had an illegal 30 round magazine as well as a defaced, illegal gun.

Fin_Dawg_004 posted...

our overlords at the NRA will keep us safe

Safe? This is part of the problem in my opinion. Nobody is ever safe entirely. People die, naturally or otherwise. Its literally the only guarantee in life.

EnterTheTekken posted...

gbpxl posted...

Thatuser posted...

They are doing something, its just not what you'd probably like. But you cannot say they are doing nothing.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act would do away with school gun free zones and allow citizens with concealed carry permits to do so in any state of the Union regardless of the state the permit was issued in. Would this have prevented what happened today if it were already law? I don't know. But claiming the government is doing nothing is objectively false.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"concealed+carry+reciprocity+act"%5D%7D

It's probably the only effective thing next to banning them entirely. But I ask you, would you rather live in a world where everyone is armed, or no one is?

I would like to live in a world where no one is armed, but that usually ends up with the wrong people being armed. It's more of a "safe than sorry" deal.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle. At least level the playing field.

They are doing something, its just not what you'd probably like. But you cannot say they are doing nothing.

Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act would do away with school gun free zones and allow citizens with concealed carry permits to do so in any state of the Union regardless of the state the permit was issued in. Would this have prevented what happened today if it were already law? I don't know. But claiming the government is doing nothing is objectively false.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"concealed+carry+reciprocity+act"%5D%7D

frozenshock posted...

ledbowman posted...

Homeschool your kids. The government obviously does not care to even try to fix this.

I'm starting to think the government likes school shootings. Every time there's a school shooting, some people will start to say that maybe there are too much guns, so GOP congressmen can scream at their speech "libhruls want to take your guns away!" to energize their base and get more votes

But they literally are doing something. Whether or not it will be effective enough is yet to be seen. Or if the Act will pass. But they are doing something.

Schools still do this?

billcom6 posted...

Then politicians might actually talk about doing things to prevent similar incidents from happening in the future.

Of course he wasn't, so there is simply nothing that can be done.

Lawmakers are trying to do something. Its called concealed carry reciprocity act and is in Senate committee.

This bill amends the federal criminal code to allow a qualified individual to carry a concealed handgun into or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.

A qualified individual must: (1) be eligible to possess, transport, or receive a firearm under federal law; (2) carry a valid photo identification document; and (3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by any state or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in his or her state of residence.

Additionally, the bill specifies that a qualified individual who lawfully carries or possesses a concealed handgun in another state: (1) is not subject to the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm in a school zone, and (2) may carry or possess the concealed handgun in federally owned lands that are open to the public.

CruelBuffalo posted...

GregShmedley posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Where. On. The. Body.

Are you real right now?

He mentioned he wanted it to be a secret about which teacher is carrying.

I dont see an example of a holster that is completely hidden where you dont know if a teacher has a gun unless its some that goes under your pant leg or on the thigh for a girl wearing a dress/skirt.

So again, is it going to be a secret. Or will it be noticeable which teacher is carrying

I explained in an earlier post how it can be concealed inside the waistband. That's how many I know choose to conceal carry, including myself. Obviously I'm not carrying a hand cannon. They make compact and sub-compact weapons designed for concealment.

ZMythos posted...

Thatuser posted...

Obviously you're already worried since school shootings are happening. Your first statement is misguided in my opinion and shows your bias, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Dude. I'm on the inside. You hear pretty disturbing shit at times from these people.

I believe it. Doesn't make them inherently more likely to commit a crime because they legally obtained a gun and applied for the proper permits, including instructional classes, on how to carry. Life is stressful, that isn't localized to the teaching profession.

ZMythos posted...

GregShmedley posted...

Except there are teachers that do....

The handful of teachers that would do it wouldn't change anything or would be the kind of teachers who would shoot the school up themselves.

You're blind to the kind of stress and work teachers already have to put up with. I shouldn't have to worry about my fucking life because "muh guns."

Obviously you're already worried since school shootings are happening. Your first statement is misguided in my opinion and shows your bias, but you're entitled to your opinion.

fenderbender321 posted...

Teachers wouldn't be required to bring a gun. They would just be allowed to do so if they are legally allowed to conceal carry.

This is exactly what the Act currently in Senate committee would allow.

CruelBuffalo posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

ChainedRedone posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

scorpion41 posted...

So why wouldnt arming teachers be a viable short term solution until we come up with a longer term one? Something besides teachers may snap because thats not a good answer given the issues we have police doing that more often than CCW carriers.

Teachers leaves gun in desk. Student grabs gun. Shoots someone.

The gun should be in their person at all times. And students shouldn't be told which teachers have guns. That should remain confidential for obvious reasons. You didn't think this through much did you?

So it should remain on them at all times....yet remain hidden....ummmmm where am I putting the gun as I teach? Up my butt?

You have literally never heard of concealed carry? Lmao do you know anything about guns?

Where is it going to be concealed?

I wear an inside the waistband holster on my right hip toward my back. I can even tuck my shirt in around it.

ZMythos posted...

GregShmedley posted...

The idea is to have teachers trained for the scenario.

I have enough shit to deal with as a teacher. "Training" like this is fucking ridiculous.

So don't. If your colleagues want to, why stop them? Not saying they do, I don't know you or them obviously. I'm sure some teacher in some public school would like the opportunity as they probably already have a permit to carry- just can't do so in a school zone.

spikethedevil posted...

Yes in an amendment as in amended as in something that can be changed and what use do guns have as a tool other than for killing someone or something?

No other use. Millions of people abide by the law and carry every day. Its terrible that criminals do bad things and misuse the tool, but peoples legal right to own them shouldn't be infringed.

Its a living document and may be amended. I doubt the 2nd will ever be written out.

spikethedevil posted...

Thatuser posted...

spikethedevil posted...

Cars have the use of getting from A to B guns have one use and one use only the banning cars straw man is stupid and over done and seems to be the only argument gun nuts throw out these days.

A gun could possibly defend unarmed minors in unfortunate scenarios like what occurred today.

And if the US didn't have it's gun fetish it wouldn't be needed in the first place.

A gun is a tool, useful in some scenarios. Ownership of them is also a right purposefully included by the founders of our nation. They aren't going anywhere.

spikethedevil posted...

Cars have the use of getting from A to B guns have one use and one use only the banning cars straw man is stupid and over done and seems to be the only argument gun nuts throw out these days.

A gun could possibly defend unarmed minors in unfortunate scenarios like what occurred today.

I feel this warrants a post since its been disregarded and people still claim nothing is being done to curb this type of action.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/38?q=%7B"search"%3A%5B"concealed+carry+reciprocity+act"%5D%7D

This bill amends the federal criminal code to allow a qualified individual to carry a concealed handgun into or possess a concealed handgun in another state that allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.

A qualified individual must: (1) be eligible to possess, transport, or receive a firearm under federal law; (2) carry a valid photo identification document; and (3) carry a valid concealed carry permit issued by any state or be eligible to carry a concealed firearm in his or her state of residence.

Additionally, the bill specifies that a qualified individual who lawfully carries or possesses a concealed handgun in another state: (1) is not subject to the federal prohibition on possessing a firearm in a school zone, and (2) may carry or possess the concealed handgun in federally owned lands that are open to the public.

Clearly things are being done, perhaps not what you as an individual want, but I happen to think this is sound and hope it passes for Trump to sign.

frozenshock posted...

KillCommunism posted...

Lol at all you edgelords having a problem with people saying "thoughts and prayers"... what the fuck? It's no different than other sayings meant to show sympathy. Do you get mad when people say to sick people, "I hope you feel better". Hardly anyone takes these things as having literal changing power, and of those that do, even fewer believe the changing power these words possess are sufficient without actual action. If that were the case, we never would've made it out of the stone age.

Because after the 50th time it no longer sounds like a means to show sympathy but as a recycled phrase to be repeated ad nauseam while not being willing to do jackshit about it.

Please define what could be done that would satisfy you. I pointed out conceal carry reciprocity is in the Senate currently, which by definition is doing something.

Its gotta be better then TLJ, anyway.

spikethedevil posted...

Literally school teachers carrying guns is such a fucked up thing. The US is so backwards for a first world country.

If they're an adult and meet the legal standards I don't see a problem. Despite what some people like to tout online, it isn't that easy to get guns, or a permit to carry in most states. Some states are more lax than others, sure. Perhaps a reasonable federal standard should apply.

spikethedevil posted...

So people don't see a problem with a first world country feeling it's teachers should have to carry guns in self defense? Just when you think the US cant get any more backwards.

It should be a choice at least. It is a right. Nobody is saying they have to.

Drunk Cobra posted...

Thatuser posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Thatuser posted...

For those saying we need to do something about it, Congress is trying. The conceal carry reciprocity act would do away with all schools being gun free zones and allow qualified teachers to carry in self defense.

Nah

You're entitled to your opinion, but they are doing something. I assume people are armed where I live. Places like schools, where there is little risk to a criminal's life, at least initially before police arrive, is just added incentive to commit violence there.

That is a fucking awful idea.

I disagree, obviously. I've been trained how to use a weapon safely, I practice. Its on my person and not visible. Carry permits should be recognized across state lines just like drivers licenses. And certainly be valid in places where people are vulnerable.

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Thatuser posted...

For those saying we need to do something about it, Congress is trying. The conceal carry reciprocity act would do away with all schools being gun free zones and allow qualified teachers to carry in self defense.

Nah

You're entitled to your opinion, but they are doing something. I assume people are armed where I live. Places like schools, where there is little risk to a criminal's life, at least initially before police arrive, is just added incentive to commit violence there.

For those saying we need to do something about it, Congress is trying. The conceal carry reciprocity act would do away with all schools being gun free zones and allow qualified teachers to carry in self defense.

Conceal carry reciprocity needs to become law. Do away with gun free school zones and let teachers defend themselves, and their students, should they choose.

Guard With Four Arrows in Torso Starting to Think Intruder Nearby

Anything you feel is a choice you make either consciously or unconsciously.

Sting posted...

Monkhood posted...

Who's nerdier, the nerd or the nerd who knows what his tattoo is?

Definitely the one that spent money to have that permanently marked into his skin.

A chick on facebook had a PayPal link post claiming how she's almost 35 and has always wanted some expensive purse. The goal was $2,500. I clicked just to see if anyone had donated. Nobody had.

Goku would be unfazed or probably learn a new transformation because plot armor.

I didn't know the 27 club thing was a thing.

I haven't asked someone to be my girlfriend since middle school. It was probably one of those notes with a "check yes or no" box on them.

Endorsed and supported by government. Might be a couple freak outs, sure, but it would be mostly positive. Might actually find some common ground between people with opposing ideologies.

Just remember... No lolygagging

Swiss based company taking advantage of Chicago's sanctuary city status. A job placement company led to these hires (which was unnamed).

Studying symbolism and allegory of Freemasonry (I'm a mason). Wood working once it isn't so damn cold and snowy.