Lurker > SeabassDebeste

Yeah, spoiling an unaired episode publicly is unfriending territory for me.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

FFDragon posted...

fuuuuuuuuuuuuck

sunday get here so we can do some talking

If you want, go ahead and create a leaks topic! I'd do it myself, but I don't want the temptation to click on my own topic.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Dickon seemed like a cool dude to Sam. I think having him as a sympathetic face to be burned was an effective tactic to make Dany's actions seem crueler.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

mnkboy907 posted...

What's the quality of the leak?

I'd like to know this, too. Gonna be traveling all day Sunday, possibly into the evening - might be worth watching on Saturday or something.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I mean, there was no way Jaime was gonna die so I didn't mind that so much. Chock it up to his armor being infused by plot armor and Bronn's magic powers.

I'm personally much more bitter about their evasion of capture, which made ZERO sense.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I suspect that if there hadn't been a TV show, TWOW would probably have been released by now. I also would never have read the books, most likely.

Anagram posted...

Viserys died. I don't remember Dany being that patient with him in the show, but I guess I'm misremembering.

Also, it's amusing how casually this book kills of major characters compared to the later seasons of the show.

Watching S1, Viserys seemed very obviously marked for death.

Viserys is also much better in Dany's internal monologue. She thinks back fondly on some of the lessons Viserys teaches her as kids, and it's much clearer that she owes her life to him in the books. He just seems like a fuckboy (which admittedly, he is) in the show.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

how hype was EW showing up in the title sequence btw

i mean way less hype after a relatively bad episode but my body was ready, son
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

the dark knight is still from the last decade, right?
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

ExThaNemesis posted...

Also irrelevant, as Sam has taken the black and renounced his right to any titles that go with his house.

there's no way sam doesn't inherit horn hill in the show lmao, no one in the north even blinks about jon being king in the north even though he was sworn to the watch. do they seriously believe his resurrection story?

Mac Arrowny posted...

Eh, I think there's a big difference between slowly burning someone to death at the stake and incinerating them in dragonfire over the course of seconds. I think this would be quicker than, say, lethal injection or hanging or the electric chair.

this is actually a pretty good point about dragonfire vs burning at the stake and the relative speed versus hanging. i think the westerosi would see it as being more savage than hanging, though.

EndOfDiscOne posted...

I've hated on Dany for a long time, but I'm ready to eat my words if she goes full heel. I didn't think she would in the show because D&D called her a good Targaryen, and Tyrion basically went down on her last season. But there is more hope lately. Still, I worry this talk of her ruthlessness is just part of a character arc where she has to learn to be a face.

I don't see why trying to overcome her inner Aerys is such a bad thing for Dany. Human heart in conflict with itself, and all.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Jaime promised Randyll the seat of Warden of the South. I think Lord Paramount would follow. The other Wardens were all Great Houses (Arryn, Stark, Lannister).

Also, I think there's a lot of difference between executing someone via beheading (and swinging the sword yourself), and executing someone by immolation. Let's not pretend they're the same... even if it was cool for Dany to execute the Tarlys - and I think there's a case it is - burning them alive is unusually cruel. It's why Jon's heroic for shooting Mance through the heart.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

it should be noted that book LF isn't exactly perfect either - he loves talking about how he fucked both tully sisters, for one thing
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Yeah, that was an interesting read. I remember on Reddit that there were threads that tried to identify the foreshadowing for events that would not come to pass, as well. Jon's POV inner narrative comments that Jaime looks like he should be king, which some took to be just such foreshadowing.

(Thirteen chapters were included with the outline, IIRC?)

I believe that Dany's dragons also did not appear in the original outline.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Yeah, I think that strictly speaking, the Arya/Tywin in Harrenhal makes for better TV and better scenes. Two spectacular actors. Will never dispute that. But in terms of narrative consistency, getting to know (book 2 spoilers) Roose Bolton early makes sense, considering how important that character becomes. Alos the foreshadowing with Elmar (?) Frey, to whom Arya was betrothed.

I suspect that turning Jaime human and sympathetic was a decision GRRM made after finishing Book 1. It's universally agreed to be one of the strongest developments/twists of the stories - but also clearly one of the reasons for the bloat of the narrative, and seemingly tangential to the endgame of Dany and the Others.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Yeah, I'm with you Cyclo - I think what Dany did is pretty evil, but it's Machivellian, too - by executing two people (and notably, turncloak nobles) in one of the most inhumane ways possible, she saves herself the trouble of taking prisoners or sending people to the Wall or having to behead guys one by one and turning them all into martyrs.

XIII_rocks posted...

That's how I generally talk about it with my family. I make a joke about the teleportation and they laugh about it and move on. I really don't want to be the guy picking through everything. Both because it'd be weird and because I genuinely just don't like doing it.

All about reading the crowd. I'm generally fairly vague on my feelings on an episode when in mixed company - despite how it seems here, I'm not usually spittle-spewing and raving when the show is brought up most of the time. 'Some decisions bothered me, but I loved the visual spectacle/plot movement' is what I usually say, unless I know I'm with super-fans who are willing/eager to engage.

neonreaper posted...

I mentioned that I found it odd that Tyrion would wander down the stairs when there were 3 people next to Davos at the boat, 2 very obviously were guards. The response I got was "It's like a classic comedy bit where someone bumps into a vase or something and goes through all sorts of hysterical physical comedy to keep it from hitting the floor, and then gets it back on the pedastal only for someone to enter the room swinging a door into the vase, smashing it instantly".

That is what it was, and that's exactly what the showrunners wanted it to evoke. But as you pointed out, that doesn't make it good TV... Gendry has to kill two dudes who are just doing their job, and Tyrion - clearly the moral compass in this episode, w.r.t. Dany at least - makes a joke about it.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

best song of 2017 that i've heard!
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

As ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, Dany's number one goal is to provide a safe space for her subjects. So if any subject doesn't feel safe, he should be replaced with someone who does.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

tbh, many people don't really enjoy enumerating their likes and dislikes. they watch game of thrones like they'd watch a procedural, i imagine, and that's... just how it is, sometimes.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

i'm sure i'd recognize him on rewatch. i watched mr robot S1 too.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Yeah, I caught it afterward, but I had no clue that was coming 'til I saw the credits. Didn't even suspect Lance Reddick, though his role on LOST was really minor and I only watched one season of The Wire.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

so, i tried to figure out who vance was, but wasn't able to

i was pretty sure i knew the chick's voice, but couldn't place who it was - dunno if i could've done any better on that, though
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

argh this hasn't purged?
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

He didn't have to move, though - he just stopped moving. Harder to detect a lack of motion than to detect motion, I think.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

tbh, the pre-2300 part is one of my favorites of the game

but everything after 2300 i love too!

and it's not like 2300 is even bad. it's just a little slow... and even then it's fast as hell once you start grinding
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

I feel like Littlefinger's plan is gonna backfire because if Sansa and Arya have to have a conversation about the Lannisters and Littlefinger, they'll be able to set aside their differences and agree how much they both hate those guys.

Yup, pretty much. LF's plans have always hinged on being able to play off his opponents' distrust of each other. If Tyrion tells Tywin about the dagger, maybe Tywin goes ham on him.

FFDragon posted...

long wolf is long

god damn it

dowolf posted...

I liked the episode overall, if only because it features characters making bad decisions that both make sense for them to make and are likely to screw them over in the long run. Karma houdini-ing has been one of my biggest problems with the show (Hello there Jorah), and maybe that's coming to an end. Yes, the Queen in the North thing was dumb, but Jon might actually pay for making a stupid mistake, and it's about damn time. Plus, things are feeling more and more gray now, as they should.

Worst part was Tyrion's defense of killing his father to Jamie, mostly because it made me wonder where whores go.

not sure if indictment on ADWD tyrion, or on the show's treatment of the jaime/tyrion/tywin episode at the end of S4/ASOS.

both are acceptable
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Littlefinger knows there is zero chance he gets on Arya's good side. He doesn't even try, after his moves on Sansa and Bran. So if Arya thinks that he and Sansa are intertwined, the split between Sansa and Arya could work to his advantage. As we see, Arya doesn't tend to think the best of Sansa. That conversation serves no purpose without LF eavesdropping. She's not stupid, but she is paranoid, and I think that's where LF sees weakness.

Trailer: That said, Sansa's clearly not going to let the split become real... It's her voice that comments, 'The long wolf dies, but the pack survives.' But it'll work initially on Arya for sure.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

He should at least pull off something of a power play in 7x06 or 7x07. This was an awesome move he pulled on Arya - the perfect thing to do to pit sister against sister... and he did it without opening his uber-villainous mouth.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

EndOfDiscOne posted...

What are the odds that Arya attacks Littlefinger, only to find that he's a secret badass swordmaster and has been training his whole life? And he let Brandon Stark cut him open so that people will underestimate him. And he's a faceless man. And he can warg into people.

stop giving d&d ideas wtf
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I have nowhere else to complain about this, but Gendry getting praised for crushing two unsavory but harmless Gold Cloaks' skulls was awful. That's exactly the type of violence that isn't as unambiguous and fist-pumping as the show loves to portray. Hated it. And hated Tyrion for forcing Gendry's hand by walking right in front of them in open daylight, after having the jump on those guards.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Anyway, I think I've been pretty critical of this episode, but I loved this quiet moment from Beric, and don't think it's been brought up yet:

"Here we all are, at the edge of the world, at the same moment, heading in the same direction, for the same reason."

And of course, the Hound interrupting him: "For fuck's sake, will you shut your hole?"

Trailer spoilers: He's also got the most fantastic trailer voiceover... Dude's got Jorah-tier delivery.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

xp1337 posted...

Gilly finished second in episode MVP voting to Davos.

Has Davos been back-to-back MVP?
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Gilly was a huge bro this episode.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Yeah, I think that being a septon explains how all the data in there was about King's Landing.

We can all become slavering, murderous imbeciles in thrall to evil incarnate as long as we can have access to the full records of High Septon Maynard's 15,782 shits!
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Agreed, but the Targaryen Dynasty ended shortly afterward. Who's going to request the Targaryen family tree, especially when that change produces no known heirs?

(Also, it occurs to me that a High Septon wrote that book and that they've got a *lot* of records - certainly possible no maester had ever read that entry.)
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Who are they supposed to state this to? The Citadel doesn't exactly publish information. AFAIK, they didn't even say anything about Joffrey and Margaery's marriage. The only time they seem to make announcements is to name the changing of the seasons.

The record of the annulment is right there for anyone who wants to read it, but the Citadel isn't going to send a raven to let anyone know...
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

The Citadel is explicitly apolitical. Why would they bring this up to anyone?
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Entirely agreed. And this also gives Tyrion something cooler to do. Negotiating with Dany to send Jaime back to King's Landing would have been perfect - a Lannister paying his debts to his brother, sending an olive branch to Cersei, and no contrived hiding-from-Qyburn secret meeting. In such a case you can still have the whatever pregnancy scene.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

as usual, no leaked spoilers
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Thanks - I probably caught that correctly, then.

Also, Jon literally marks himself for death with a weird showrunner verbal tic - he tells Dany 'I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.' The same line is said by Mance Rayder in 5x01 before he's executed, and by Ser Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy. It's never said in the books. I don't know why the showrunners think it's clever to have this unrelated phrase show up so many times...
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I think I missed a lot of words of dialogue this episode. I could tell by the context that Cersei was telling Jaime she got pregnant, but I missed the line itself that caused that reaction in Jaime. That wasn't the only instance where I blinked, though.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Alliser Thorne did in both the shows and the books, which is why he was absent for all of Seasons 2 and 3. In the books, Tyrion laughs at his decayed hand (which they mention in 7x05 in the Chamber of the Painted Table IIRC) in Book 2, but I don't think we ever see the scene in the show.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

Gregor Clegane isn't stated to be dead in the show.

But in any case, the threat of the Army of the Dead is clearly not that they're dead people, but that the people they kill join their army. The Mountain can be controlled nicely, in part because when he kills people they go away. That's what makes the threat so dangerous.

But even Cersei were aware of this threat, do you really think she'd care enough to send help North instead of taking advantage of the opportunity to assassinate Dany?
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

oh, and part of what i enjoyed about tyrion being freed from dany's shackles this episode:

'What's it say?'

'... It's a sealed letter to the King in the North.'

(silence)

'... So what's it say?'
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

MariaTaylor posted...

Arya made no sense this episode

Sansa should behead people because they said they wanted Jon to come back home, and apparently this is them talking... bad... about Jon? by saying they want him around???? and Sansa is somehow doing something wrong by not seizing power and just waiting patiently for Jon to return??????

Arya is super-defensive of Jon. She's not acting logically (as articulating this is a self-fulfilling prophecy), but she's also not wrong that Sansa secretly hopes she can stay Lady of Winterfell. I actually enjoyed this.

also Littlefinger is apparently being suspicious because he was..... talking to people?????????????

like I know I've hammered on the whole "Littlefinger is somehow evil because he's attracted to Sansa, even though everyone is attracted to Sansa" but this really brought it to a whole new level. Littlefinger is suspicious because he has conversations with people. even though everyone has conversations with each other all the time all day long every day.

Everyone is suspicious of Littlefinger. Arya just decided to follow him. He obviously is developing a spy network (the discreet payment is a clear indicator of under-the-table dealings), and he seems to be going around Sansa's back with his request to Maester Wolkan.

But honestly, we're talking about an Arya whose life has been determined by paranoia and violence. How did she solve the waif? How did she solve the Freys? Bloody murder. What was her biggest regret about Harrenhal? Not ordering the hit on Tywin Lannister. She does not really understand politics. I think this type of division between Arya and Sansa makes perfect sense.

And in the end, Littlefinger is plotting against the Starks. Hell, it's possible that Arya suspects Littlefinger and Sansa are conspiring together against Jon. Arya's smart to be suspicious of this new ally from the South (!!), she just didn't think that extra step ahead and got horribly played by LF.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

ExThaNemesis posted...

What also makes no sense is HOW THE FUCK it has taken the army of the dead so long to get from Hardhome to East-watch whilst Jon has now gone from Winterfell to Dragonstone and all the way back up to East-watch

travel times good lord

you can't say East-watch lol

They haven't been marching continuously. They detoured to the 3ER's cave, for one thing. And they could've started marching from the Fist of the First Men. For whatever reason, they've continuously bided their time and grown their ranks til now.

It's kind of a downer though, yes.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Guys what the fuck is even going on though?



The army of the dead marches as a whole, ceaselessly, right?

How are these 7 chucklefucks going to get to the army, capture a whitewalker, then beat the undead not only back over the wall but to King's fucking Landing???

This makes no sense.

I think the goal is to capture a wight. But yeah, the idea seems absurd. They're going on a suicide mission.

Worse yet, Dany and Cersei are somehow laying down arms at a critical juncture during their war so we can focus on this?
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

but overall yeah not my fav episode. :/
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

tbh i'm pretty excited that arya v sansa may be a thing as opposed to jon v sansa. much better dynamic here, since they have unfinished business.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I think the Lightning Lord might meet his seven-time maker next episode. Dude looks way too much like Obi-Wan Kenobi not to die!

Thoros and Tormund seem to be expendable characters. Jorah is a massive showrunner/fan-favorite so I actually think he survives. Gendry was literally just brought back; a death from him has no emotional impact to me, yet he's too major a character to be killed redshirt-style like Thoros.

Don't really see Jon dying here. And The Hound needs to survive til Cleganebowl.

They were seven against three hundred thousand.
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

I suppose Euron's fleet is still corralling Casterly Rock?

Tyrion came to life a little this episode. Unfortunately, his scene with Jaime wasn't... very good. But that's just the nature of the show - it's become much more about plot than relationships. It's a dialogue-heavy episode, but the interactions that should feel meaty (in this episode, Jaime-Cersei, Jaime-Tyrion, Jon-Dany) generally pale in comparison to the low-stakes stuff (Davos-Jon, Arya-Ed Sheeran, The Hound-Beric).
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

XIII_rocks posted...

Also the scroll with the info about Jon - that's the one Sam handed to the kid, right?

Have to assume so, yes. Can't imagine that's only an Easter Egg for the viewers...
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness

qyburn is so OP lmao
---

yet all sailors of all sorts are more or less capricious and unreliable - they live in the varying outer weather, and they inhale its fickleness