Lurker > Peace___Frog

Obellisk posted...

ok, I choose to believe that last night there was a delibrate no kill to facilitate Chris claim of being able to make anyone bullet proof.

this plus other little bits from Chris and I feel ok with his lynch today.

cheerio

##vote:chris

ofcourse I realize you'll all just lynch ctes and if he's scum, bully for us. But I like my vote on chris.

Could be

SirChris posted...

Also I will not be naming my targets today or any day unless something changes. Dumey knows them and that's good enough for me.

Crackpot theory - scum chris will kill Dumey tonight and then he won't be beholden to keeping his answer the same as he did in Dumey's chat

I think that's -1

Votals
[5]Ctes - Peaf, Chris, (Marth), Dumey, wallz, corrik
[2]Chris - MZero, Ulti, (Wallz)
[2]MZero - Sultan, (Dumey), Marth
[0]SBell - (Ulti)
[0]Peaf - (Wallz)

Obellisk posted...

jailkeeper (that is what is it right? I didn't see someone confirm that for me)

Sometimes Jailkeeper. Sometimes commuter. Can't keep doing it forever.

ctesjbuvf posted...

But like twice at most. What are you trying to get by exaggerating?

It doesn't look to me like you're doing much else except trying to distract and avoid. If i am exaggerating it's certainly not intentional.

There was more than one post, dude.

If either Chris or mzero are scum, then ninja and strongman can be different roles.

If neither of chris and mzero are scum, then ninja and strongman are the same role.

You spent a lot of time and energy defending Chris. I'd expect you to want to go after mzero. And claim.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I don't even understand yall. So you think I might be ninja but not ninja who went to red which means you should want MZero or Chris dead but yet you want to kill me?

If you are ninja who went to Red, you would be the mysterious fourth person.
Or it could be your other scum mate. Or it could be chris/ mzero.

Lol

I think the confusion is that there's no current evidence that the ninja is the same player slot as the strongman. Except that Chris and mzero are both already outed.

And honestly, if they are not the same slot and chris is the strongman, then killing off the ninja is technically better for Wallz. But who knows if he'll live to tomorrow anyway.

wallmasterz posted...

We should just lynch ctes because if Chris is scum hes non-ninja strongman, and ctes might be ninja, which means if mzero is town (he would be if Chris is scum) I can get one last watch off if ctes is ninja and even if scum kills me mzero would get the results of my watch

Ok yeah this is much better. I approve.

And because the more i think about it, the more absolutely busted that role is, especially when compared to death.

wallmasterz posted...

I wish I could pin a flowchart

If ctes flips scum -> lynch Chris
if ctes flips town -> Lynch peaf

if Chris and peaf flip town -> lynch sheep

I'm game for this.

In theory at face value if everyone is being truthful, then if ctes flips town, i could be town if and only if Chris is town and his n2 or n3 action prevented the kill last night. Fortunately, we have no way of knowing!

I might be talking myself into a chris lynch just to clear up the info, honestly.

wallmasterz posted...

But unless you think peaf is scum it makes sense to start with ctes.

To be fair, if you think Chris is town then my town equity goes back a mile

SirChris posted...

Bg + jk/commuter is actually very light on protection btw

Yeah it's light but holy crap your ability is strong as hell. Doc normally requires you to target the same person as the night kill on the night that it happens.

Anyway. Ctes. You've had so much time to come up with a vanilla claim. We're on day 4! You should have this prepped by now.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Why are you making it sound like your claims are contradicting each other?

Confirmed bg flip + jk/commuter is decent enough protection in a game of 15. A role that prevents a player from dying once for the rest of the game would be fine if either of the other roles didn't exist. But i know for certain that those first two roles do exist.

Obellisk posted...

I prefer the rural charm of our community.

Yeah i looked at the one site that was linked to a while back and it was too overwhelming. So much stuff going on. Things are simpler here.

I don't believe Chris at all. Getting that out of the way.
But if some players think there's a possibility of me lying and him being the town here, then Chris should declare who has his vests from n2 and n3. If those players die, then Chris has even less of a defense tomorrow than he does today.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Ctes is town
Wallz is town
Peaf is town
Marth is town
Chris is probably town

I came into today thinking Chris had to be scum, but the claim makes a lot of sense. Chris is never allowed above "probably" again after SW&P though.

This post is so funny.

That's -2 by the way on ctes.

Peace___Frog posted...

Yeah that's fair. Probably didn't help my case any. I was angry because you have multiple valid avenues right in front of you from your own actions, i claimed rb'd before lopen flipped, and death confirmed that i was untargettable. You and i were just in a scum game together on opposite sides, and there was no point in time where i did anything as creative as would be required for my action so far. Dumey and ctes can both tell you how little appetite i had for unnecessary plays in the good corp scum chat.

Chris, i think you're lying. Sure. But I'd prefer to see ctes lynched over you today.

Quoted to fix dumb early morning typo

Yeah that's fair. Probably didn't help my case any. I was angry because you have multiple calls avenues right in front of you from your own actions, i claimed rb'd before lopen flipped, and death confirmed that i was untargettable. You and i were just in a scum game together on opposite sides, and there was no point in time where i did anything as creative as would be required for my action so far. Dumey and ctes can both tell you how little appetite i had for unnecessary plays in the good corp scum chat.

Chris, i think you're lying. Sure. But I'd prefer to see ctes lynched over you today.

The only lynch I'll entertain over chris is ctes, thank you.

Chris ctes Sultan, final answer?

Hey ctes, that's a lot of defense of Chris and no claim. Wanna rethink that?

EDumey posted...

So the only conditional read I'm giving here is: IF you think Chris is SCUM, THEN you should also think Ctes is SCUM.

And the inverse holds, where if you think ctes is town then chris must be town (unless someone else wants to claim fun weird protection).

SirChris posted...

Can you quote where I said I wanted day to end super early?

You said that we needed death's flip asap. I'm sure there are other posts that i can find tomorrow.

SirChris posted...

Also please don't end the day early for the third day in a row so I can actually do things when I am back at my computer. Thanks yall.

Day 1 ended like 30 minutes early.
Day 2 ended a day early.
Day 3 would have ended 20 hours sooner if you had had your way. You're welcome for giving you a day to even read.

MZero posted...

Peaf has explained the lack of NKs already.

Shooting Peaf N2 makes sense because the fact that he knew he was RB'd means he has a power. He then JK'd ctes last night so ctes is either scum or was shot for some reason

If we're talking about crumbs, for the record, i want to call out that i planned on commuting n2 and really went hard into "hey maybe that third person isn't a standard doc".

MZero posted...

Chris knew death was going to flip town btw

Yeah that post that you quoted was super suspect even at the time. Why would getting there asap help us out?

EDumey posted...

There is no chance Ctes was shot. So if Chris is scum, then the only viable reasons for there to be no kill last night were a scum No Kill, or Peaf roleblocking the killer.

That's another reason to go after Ctes and give Chris a chance to give out another vest. Tremendous upside. And if you follow the argument that whoever killed Red was likely a spent Strongman, then that makes it more attractive.

Ok walk me through this, please. I know you love your conditionals.

Ctes flips scum. That means chris is also probably scum? He could theoretically still be town here. And he himself thinks that he blocked last night's kill.
Ctes flips town. That means chris is confirmed town?

UnderUrMattress posted...

also as for lopen, he was clearly already dead so you fighting to kill him and chris looking at other avenues doesn't really influence either of your alignments.

This is reversed, no? Chris was with you and corrik and wanted day to end. Mzero was the first one who humored my suggestion that we test sultan (look elsewhere).

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Oh yeah It does specify l say scanners

To your point though, it does make it even more convenient of a claim.

We have (flavor) cop, and limited number of watches. Neighbor, and 2 or 3 protection. Not much in the way of info for mzero's role.

No scanners have died since then, so there's no info to share

No, he explicitly didn't clarify when i asked. Wallz encouraged him to not indulge me, which i agree is the correct play.

Since I'm limited I was wondering if i was the only one.

SirChris posted...

I have already fully revealed how many uses and targets to dumey but I don't think that needs to he publix information yet.

Because Dumey targeted the third player over night 2.

So Chris presumably had the claim prepared early.

UnderUrMattress posted...

can i go back in time and slap d1 me for scumreading ulti because he's reading very obvious town now lmao

Nah that's results based thinking. Ulti was quite scummy on day 1 and day 2.

EDumey posted...

If it helps, the reason why Wallz was fairly certain is because Chris left quite a few breadcrumbs for being protection.

We talked about how Lopen breadcrumbing Hider wasn't a big deal, and I want to remind that Lopen knew he would be targetted at some point, and his intrinsic nature would be revealed, so it makes complete sense for him to have a fake claim prepared nice and early for that, and breadcrumb immediately.

For scum Chris to breadcrumb protection from the start before any town protection was outted or talked about is a different story, because if someone catches that and then he can't claim protection because someone else claims doctor or something, then it's suspicious.
Then again, I suppose you can argue that a Vanilla might breadcrumb protection sometimes to try and draw a shot.

But that was the reason why we were willing to entertain the idea that Chris was protection.

Can you elaborate on these crumbs? If chris is town and he's already a threat to scum, why would he give close-reading scum more of a reason to kill him?

EDumey posted...

And once again to sound like a slight hypocrite to myself from earlier, if claimed protection Chris isn't killed by scum and makes it more than one night alive, he's likely scum. So this one I feel like is maybe testable because there's no way scum lets a town Chris hand out BP vests like candy when they've already missed two shots.

Fuck when you talk smart it sounds so good.

But if scum knows we'll lynch him if they don't kill him, surely that's all upside for them.

A lot has happened Sultan, and that's all you have to say? What do you think of the claims?

Yeah I'm not opposed to this idea, Ulti. And it has the added benefit of potentially removing the ambiguity around the night kill situation.

If he's limited use anyway... no real loss there!

I think that sounds like too much protection tbh. Me and death both have downsides to our protection (he dies, i roleblock my target).

SirChris posted...

There may be a misunderstanding. If a doctor protects someone with a vest the vest doesn't pop.

In a game without a doctor... was that explicitly explained to you? I'm going to assume that very few of us have played in a game with an armourer before.

SirChris posted...

N2 I think is you, last night I think was me. Based on how the game has gone.

And yet you still have your vote on ctes? If you don't think i blocked the kill then you have no reason to suspect him, as far as night actions go.

EDumey posted...

For what?

I understand now why you targeted a scummy player last night.

But i think that Chris is extremely good at this game and i don't understand how you and wallz both on day 2 said you thought that death was more likely to be scum than chris. And this could still be a fake claim and you've been bamboozled by scum in a side chat once more.

SirChris posted...

I give out bulletproof vests that can be shot once.

The target is not aware they have been given an item.

Ok so let's complete this circle of facts.

You and death targeted red n1. No protection happened because of a presumable strongman.
You targeted ??? N2. I commuted n2. No one died.
You targeted ??? N3. I jailkept ctes. No one died.

So it is possible I'm not the nighttime savior of b8tham and your actions prevented the kills.
I understand wanting to keep your remaining info hidden. Without delving into it, do you think it to be more likely that ctes sent in the kill last night, or that they popped one of your shields?

UnderUrMattress posted...

i'm not suspecting you for what it's worth, i'm just trying to figure out why we did what we did. and there's no way that what we did yesterday WASN'T influenced by mafia.

i wouldn't have hounded a bg claim as hard as i did if the information presented today was relayed yesterday.

Oh yeah, a million percent. There's plenty of info, thanks to someone insisting we don't go for the speed run.

I couldn't share this info yesterday because i needed scum to not play around the possibility of getting role blocked.

Sorry for being a dick, Wallz. I was extremely perturbed that your argument yesterday was "1 of these 3 people killed red", then we killed one of them, and now you're going "eh forget about that i don't like this other guy".

I would prefer not to state how many uses i have remaining because i don't want scum to play around it. I'm going to assume that's the same reason you haven't given us any info from n2 or n3 yet? What's up with that?

I think i was the first one to propose lynching Sultan. I was talked down and really thought that bg was too convenient of a claim at the end of the day.

How does my role have synergy with a bg that limited doc would not? Wallz and dumey were so sure of things yesterday and i was convinced.

UnderUrMattress posted...

also peaf i think edumey is possibly scum again.

Agreed. It's impressive how we've gone through three day phases and literally every single player looks bad as hell.

In wallz' defense, i can understand me looking bad here too if you're going to consider a mafia backup. It's not unheard of, and was in the first game back that Dumey played (xenoblade).

UnderUrMattress posted...

you also had people like me, MZero, and wallz that were trying to get you to see outside the box but you pushed death out anyways.

I don't understand your question. You were ready to end day after 90 minutes. I pushed to have more time just in case death was town. It's funny that you use this phrasing when i am the one who explicitly asked wallz to consider a world in which the third person was not doc.

I have limited actions. Red had to jump through hoops to get an upgraded power. I 100% thought that if we have a doctor, they had some kind of limitations. A bg wouldn't need those limitations.

With this info out in the open, i fully expect wallz and dumey to name who the third person that targeted red was. The more i think about it, the more they're probably not doctor.

For the record, i targeted sbell n1 to test the Miller claim. I didn't want to rb red, and i figured that if it was a scumbell gambit then at least he'd be blocked.
But i got blocked instead :)

Steins;Gate (9)

Yeah I'm going to take a walk. Sorry.

And i really fucking wanted someone to bounce ideas off of but my second strongest town lean went totally off the fucking rails? I prevented two fucking night kills and this is what happens.

Ok you know what? Fuck you, Wallz.

I already claimed NES, limited Commuter. My other limited action is Jailkeep. I targeted ctes last night and role blocked him. I thought about targeting you to protect you but chose not to because, in case you have other actions, i wouldn't get in your way.

Protecting Dumey would be relying on dumey to be targeted by the kill. I couldn't have faith in that.

So i targeted ctes. He was my biggest read coming into today. And i believe he submitted the kill.

This is why i said yesterday that i believed bg over doc. My role is protection adjacent. So was death. Having a doc on top of that makes very little sense.

Now fucking unvote me and do something fucking useful