Lurker > DeadBankerDream

I don't think there's a single case in SoJ I like other than the civil trial portion of the final case. And even that is marred by them being unwilling to give Phoenix development and just have him do what lawyers do. Even after all these years he has to be blackmailed into it

I just think the whole game is an act of desperation. An attempt to one up everything before it rather than be compelling due to its narrative and how it plays with established conventions of the franchise. Dual Destinies is pretty weak, and stupid, and the animations are offputting, and it introduced a worthless character in Athena, but at least the space center concept and characters are fun as hell to traverse through and Turnabout Academy is genuinely one of my favourite cases of the franchise. Klavier is well-used. He doesn't feel shoved in there for the sake of variety like Blackquill does in SoJ4. It genuinely feels from the heart the way the prosecutor cameo is handled. The phantom is a weak villain, sure, but how it ties in with Fulbright himself I think is pretty great. Was a real backstab to realize that such a likeable character was a dickcheese.

The last thing the franchise needed was to not only bring back the spirit medium nonsense, but also to make that nonsense the foundation of the game with even more dumb lore behind it. Until then I felt the franchise had firmly left spirit channeling behind as something that it wouldn't be ashamed of, but definitely belonged to the past. We also could have used a prosecutor whose gimmick isn't simply being an asshole. I never thought Franziska could ever stop being the worst prosecutor they ever came up with. Well done Capcom, I guess.

But mostly it just does the same thing Dual Destinies does and does nothing with Phoenix. He's there. He's being Phoenix. Nothing happens with his character. It sucked in DD, but it becomes worse the more games they tack on to the end of it. Apollo Justice wasn't great, but each of these sequels that just goes "hey you want more Phoenix Wright being the same doofy doof with no attempt at characterization beyond the quirks you know and love, even though they rmake no sense now that he has two decades of experience behind him, right?", they really make AJ retroactively a better game. Not a good game, but at least it does SOMETHING. Mostly something bad, but something bad is better than repeated nothing, this franchise has started to teach me. Honestly the best thing the series could do at this point was have Apollo take over main character duties from Phoenix and I dunno, give him a 7th backstory or something. But no, seriously, give him some actual development of his belief systems the way Phoenix have had and give him some ethical or ideological challenges to see how he tackles them. And get the fucking Trucy thing out of the way. Have Phoenix take on a mentor role like he was supposed to have had in AJ rather than the puppetmaster he was. Throw him a pity case to solve on his own, maybe have him in investigation segments with his magatama.

But the way SoJ ended it seems like Apollo will be relegated to the Blackquill cameo of the next game and we're stuck with Phoenix and... ugh... Athena.

I don't like Spirit of Justice at all and one "holy shit" moment does nothing to improve it over the much better general progression in either of these games.

Not that this collection doesn't have a couple of its own of those kind of moments, even if they aren't as devastating as the particular one I'm thinking of in SoJ.

TendoDRM posted...

I wish there was a way to save topics.

>_>
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It's honestly fine. They don't use it for anything outrageous.

Hey, it's not your fault Spirit of Justice was awful, wheelchair army girl!

My Ace Attorney ranking:

01) Trials and Tribulations
02) The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures
03) The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve
04) Justice for All
05) Miles Edgeworth: Investigations
06) Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
07) Dual Destinies
08) Gyakuten Kenji 2
09) Apollo Justice
10) Professor Layton Vs Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
11) Spirit of Justice

I think that's all of them.

Okay. I finished the game a while back. A bit after my last post in this topic. I needed some time to compose my thoughts and then Christmas happened.

Overall, the final case of Resolve started out really annoying me, but like most other cases that start out "bad" it pulled it back towards the end. Essentially I think everything involving Jigoku in the case is absolute garbage. He's a completely annoying character whose role is a giant timesink before we get to the actual case. The way he is setup at the start of the game makes it seem like he's going to be significant as a character, but it was just so they could have this minor villain mentioned rather than popping out of complete nowhere. More overarchingly I think the whole assassin exchange program is beyond stupid and a really silly conclusion to the setup of the telegram and Jezaille Brett's whole character. I don't know what to say about it other than it's overengineered and dumb and very unsatisfying.

I absolutely despised what the case did with Kazuma. At the start at least. By the end of it I kind of accepted it and I think it managed to rein in it by the end where it wasn't that bad and his characterization came through in a kind of positive way, but that doesn't redeem how stupid the whole thing is and I still wish they hadn't gone that way with his character. Should they have brought him back at all? I don't know. I'm leaning towards no, but overall I'm okay with it.

Now, basically everything after we get done with the Jigoku prologue is really freaking good. Stronghart is well-utilized. I feel like it's kind of too obvious to make him the big bad, but I guess it's a genre thing and it's fine. He's very well used in the case. Very intimidating in the role of judge. I've heard people say he reminds them of Damon Gant, and I kind of see it, but I fucking hate Damon Gant and Rise from the Ashes as a whole. I think he's a much better version of Damon Gant. No doubt it helps that he's had 2 games of build up rather than just being plopped into a DLC case. In some sense the conclusion kind of seems like an asspull, but I don't really think so. Stronghart plays up his authority and it makes sense to tear it down by simply showing his shenanigans to someone with more authority. The case does a lot of things with technology that seem kind of awkward, but I do think it utilizes them well, or at least for good purposes. That investigative segment on the ship was amazing. Overall I think the story revelations regarding Mikotoba and Iris in the case was some of the best non-trial writing an Ace Attorney game has ever had. Holmes really comes together as a character in these last two cases when the depth of machinations and foresight is revealed. It really shines a different light on his appearances in the rest of the game(s). All that at least makes up somewhat for the early trial part of the case. Or I guess the middle trial part, technically. Honestly, the part before Jigoku is kind of a blur to me.

The ending was really good. I legit teared up when Iris called Sholmes daddy. ;_;. The story concluded the only way I really think it was reasonable to conclude it. It felt really well earned. It was bittersweet but also kind of you know, hopeful for the future. I'm sure they visit Iris and Holmes again. It's kind of weird with the Ace Attorney localization, because it's obviously setting up for Naruhodo returning to Japan and revitalizing the country's legal system and then 100 years in the future we follow his descendant traversing that same legal system. But it doesn't really work when those games take place in America. Also the whole "dark age of the law" dumbfuck plot in Dual Destinies seem out of place with that ending.

Overall I do think it stumbles a bit on the last leg, but it does succeed mostly in righting itself and getting across the goal line in a reasonably great fashion.

These games have been fucking wonderful to play. They work significantly enough different from the standard meandering faire the main series has turned into of late to be great in their own right, but they do also go beyond with thoughtful ways to do cases, especially in the first game with case 2 and 3. I do think I like the first one more than the second but it's kind of hard to separate because most of the first game's setups are resolved until Resolve (see what I did there?).

I'll definitely replay them sometime in 2022, probably the later half. I really can't wait to re-experience them with a fuller understanding of the setups I'm watching. Great series.

I'll be honest, I thought this case was kind of shit and was on the verge of semi ruining the game for me.

But then we discovered that Klint van Zieks might have been the Professor and I'm all in again.

Would the victim's death even be prosecutable in England? I mean you could prosecute for some conspiracy stuff, I guess, but it sounds like Gregson died while off the coast of France.

It was pretty neat.

"On what ground is Kazuma Asogi permitted to continue in his role as prosecutor? He has admitted to colluding with the victim in a plot to assassinate an innocent man."

THANK YOU GAME, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING THE WHOLE SECOND PART OF TRIAL PART ONE!

"Oh, I asked 'please' and the boss said it's fine."

-_-

If it turns out that the game brought Kazuma back to life to make him Gregson's killer I am going to fucking riot.

This is uh... this is really dumb. Going really heavy on the kangaroo court elements. Game, pull it back, please. We've only just begun. You can save this case.

Well damn that was an interesting end to the investigation. I was not expecting this at all. Any of it.

So apparently, Dr. Mikotoba was present at the autopsy of Van Zieks' brother where the evidence that identified Genshin Asogi as the killer was discovered. Meaning he had the ability to plant it. Hmmm...

Gregson went to France the day before his body was discovered. And Mikotoba and Jigoku's ship was anchored in Dunkirk that day before arriving in Dover on the day of the incident.

I can't help but feel something is fishy here. Maybe there would be a cooling space on a steam ship, I dunno. That giant trunk they had with them when they first arrived at the hotel too.

Hmmm....

f

GiftedACIII posted...

A lot of fans who played the initial Japanese release criticized the game.

Okay, for what reasons. I thought it was pretty good. The only thing I could really see is that it feels fairly incomplete on its own. Or maybe the racism directed towards Japanese people would be upsetting.

Edit: Oh shit, great deduction time? With an obvious character drunk on tea wearing a mask and singing German folk songs.

Man, these great deductions have become better and better lately.

Playing them up for comedic effect is really the way to go with them.

Was there at any point any dialogue in this investigation suggesting I ought to show the autopsy report to Kazuma?

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GiftedACIII posted...

had very controversial reception.

What this mean?

Finished the day one trial. This game sure has a lot of European accents. That's fun.

What's Naruhodo is doing here is definitely wrong. He is following Kazuma on a vendetta that at least so far has no relation to the case being tried. I get kind of frustrated by the fake choices in these games in situations like that. They give me player choice to tell my character to stop being a dickwheel and then just ignore it. Just remove the choice and let me play in the understanding that I'm controlling an individual with his own (wrong) views on what he must do.

The standard facts of the case are kind of boring. The shadow of whats to come looming in the background are more engaging and hopefully they reveal themselves soon.

I'm kind of weirded out by the reuse of character models in the game. Like here they actually do say it's Beppo from that case, but really the only reason it is him is so they can reuse that model. That's fine I guess. But the random person whose hand stuck out from under the curtain at Tusspells' in the last case was one of the jurors of the first jury case, and the porter at the hotel from the beginning of this case was a juror on that same case with no sense that it was the same character. Unless this is a setup and they're tying it all together, it seems kind of cheap.

I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect in the investigation phases in GAA2. Sometimes they're not put together as well as usually in the series and you're not railroaded as much, which means you might go to a place and talk to someone and then have to leave abruptly without ending the conversation properly because you didn't collect a piece of evidence you need to show them, and then come back later and finish up the conversation. In other games, that encounter would just not be available till you have that evidence. It's not really meaningful freedom as it still plays out with the same conversations and evidence found, it's just you can do it in a minorly random order and it kind of disturbs the flow of dialogue, so I think it's definitely not a positive.

Oh shit, we doing a Turnabout Goodbyes thing in here. How fucking interesting.

I suppose that means the prosecutor will be Kazuma? That prospect is... less exciting. I'll keep an open mind for this storyline, though, of course.

I'm beginning more and more to feel like there's a giant revelation come crashing down in the last chapter ala sweet gentle Simon being the mastermind in GK2. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it turns out that Dr. Mikotoba was the actual Professor all along.

I'm pretty sure she was saying stuff like "I made the wax figure for MY museum" and stuff. Also I think prior to that it's said that SHE came to London from Paris, not her family.

Finished chapter 3.

Oh boy. That was... really long. In general there's a theme going on in these games that cases I think start off weak generally end strong. And that was also the case here. I already mentioned how I'd gotten turned around on it along the way. And the ending court sections here were also really good. Especially how it worked for Van Zieks' character. Most of my issues with the case were left behind after the first day and it focused on much more enjoyable elements of the mystery rather than the fucking nonsense. I still think it's one of the "less" great cases, but by no means is it bad. I think the only bad case so far as been the first case in the first game.

Still though, what an absolute shitshow of a defendant. Not the worst one ever. Maggey Byrde and Wocky whatever his name is exists. But jesus christ I wanna punch and murder him for being a shit character. The case improving in quality correlated with his role in it being entirely sidelined.

...That post ending scene though. I guess we'll see where this goes. I see the potential of what they're setting up.

I fucking hate it, though. Only good thing is the implications for Nikolina.

Edit: I'm very curious to Stronghart's reaction to this whole kerfuffle.

Edit: Starting the next case, but only playing it for a small bit. I'm curious, as I believe "His Last Bow" is the book where Sherlock Holmes dies.

I'm kind of imagining that the last case is going to be about proving Genshin innocent.

The tone of this case feels basically like a conclusion to the game at this point. I can't believe its only the middle case.

The Tusspells theme slaps something fierce.