Lurker > WingsOfGood

@Sackgurl

https://www.wsj.com/articles/buy-borrow-die-how-rich-americans-live-off-their-paper-wealth-11625909583

In addition to the bespoke loans Goldman Sachs Group Inc. GS -0.35% offers clients of its exclusive private bank, the Wall Street firm advertises securities-based loans of $75,000 to $25 million to clients of outside financial advisers with no personal financial statements, tax returns, or paper applications. Merrill Lynch recently quoted an interest rate of 3.2% to clients with at least $1 million in assets. Those with $100 million or more can get a rate as low as 0.87%.

anks dont mind the low interest rates because they earn management fees on the assets that clients might otherwise sell. Banks typically will lend a borrower at least 50% of a diversified portfolios value, Mr. Anderson said. But when he was a financial adviser, Mr. Anderson cautioned clients to not tap more than 25% of their portfolio value to lessen the risk the bank would demand repayment if markets tanked.

Just 100 million assets get you .87%

1 Billion in assets is 10x more than 100 million.

Elon has 300 billion

that is 3000 times more than the 100 million guy.

Sackgurl posted...

could you source this (the interest rate)?

i would assume it'd be pegged to financial commercial paper interest rates, which are very much not at that level

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RIFSPPFAAD30NB

i don't understand any loan that functions with an APR significantly below inflation

yes

I have sourced it before

all people had to do is read the reporting that was initially given about this last year or whenever it was

it is clear people did not and just went with their bias

let me find it again sigh

Tyranthraxus posted...

I agree with eliminating property taxes for people who only own one piece of property. That will help fight off gentrification.

It only makes sense.

Like, people are so adamantly against taxing unrealized gains....until you bring up property.

Then they fight tooth and nail saying "but how would we fund schools!!"

It is like, bro, your arguments only stem from what you are used to, not what is logical. Like, you are all for taxing unrealized property gains just cause that is what happens now.

bro

Robot2600 posted...

they don't pay taxes cAuSe ThEy LoSt MoNeY oN sToNkS!!!11

don't you know about cApItAl GaInS tAxEs??$&*@?

another uninformed poster has entered the thread

you love to see it

Health posted...

You poor child. Politicians are supposed to do what their sponsors and donors tell them to do.

Only when you keep voting them in and say this dumb shit. Then of course they are excused to do whatever makes them the most money.

Damn_Underscore posted...

Makes sense but what other solution do you have? That funding relies on the large tax base.

If this is an honest question and not a "we can't do this cause what else is the solution!!", there are other ways to go but obviously you don't just elminate property tax for single property owners one day without a plan. This is like the whole point of politicians being a job. They are supposed to come up with good ideas we then give them feedback on.

Funny thing is the federal government give schools some money right? We can't we make a system like that better to equally fund schools and make billionaires pay tax to this end?

Solar_Crimson posted...

I didn't see the picture before it was deleted, but would she step on me if I kneeled?

If you kneel she has sex with you and kills you.

I deleted my message.

Is it against TOS to say what game this is from since it is actually hentai with nudity?

Damn_Underscore posted...

AFAIK property taxes are how public schools get most of their funding

and is also why certain areas have underfunded schools

Damn_Underscore posted...

I agree that property taxes suck.

But the point of taxes is a lot of people pay them and the end result is much more than any individual person has.

Poor people pay income tax.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Incorrect. This is called a wealth tax and it's something we desperately need.

He thinks you want to do that to people making $35k with dogecoins though.

also, I think property tax should be abolished if you do not own more than 1 property and do not rent it out.... aka you live there yourself

"but then where will we get funds for stuff?" uh maybe make wealthy people actually pay their taxes instead of bleeding the poor people dry

Damn_Underscore posted...

No it really shouldnt.

In addition to the handful of billionaires this tax would get a decent chunk of money from, it would also screw over millions of the middle class by destroying their retirement funds.

the wealth taxes being proposes don't affect people who make under 50 million last I recall

fyi, there is a ton of articles explaining how this works, all you gotta do is read them.

I have posted them here before as well fyi.
There is no reason anywhere here defending this and saying "it is not income!" should take that stance. The knowledge is out there.
If you are in that court, you likely have some sort of bias against the knowledge and refuse to absorb it.

But perhaps today you accept it underscore. When we poor people accept this, we can see how broke portions of the system are and push for change.

Damn_Underscore posted...

But its not though? To be fair I dont really know how that works, but it does seem like a pretty obvious loophole to avoid paying taxes that the government would want to close.

However, if that loophole were banned almost nothing would change. As people have said you have to have billionaire assets to even take advantage of that.

So there is alot of things to it.
One is that by not having to sell their stock, it pretty much by default presses the value of their stock up.

This means that while they may take a 500 million loan and have to pay it back, in a few months, they actually made more FROM the loan by keeping their stock such that they are net positive. That is, they made 500 million and more from this very invention.
This is NOT even considering the savings they make by not paying taxes.

It is LITERALLY income. They uses loans the same as you use an ATM for cash you have.

SweetieBeIle462 posted...

Who are they?

hmm

it is highly contagious so it will likely last a month or 2 more

we are basically just at the beginning of it

Damn_Underscore posted...

They arent in fact realized though. The companies he owns shares of are worth a certain amount of money and he has claim to x% of that.

If you arent going to be honest about how money works then there is no discussion to be had

They are realized.

He gets his money and uses it just like you get your money. For him a loan is just like you going to the bank and making a withdrawal.
You should really read up more about it. Loans for them do not work the same as you taking out a loan for a house.
It is literally income.

evil boss

Xethuminra posted...

Your echo chamber, my ****

what

scamatoru posted...

OMG TWO PPLZ
that old senile commie fart should fuck off already

holy shit! Elon Musk is on CE!!

@Veggeta_MAX

Damn_Underscore posted...

Sorry, I was implying unrealized capital gains.

@Damn_Underscore

and here is the thing

Elon Musk can buy whatever he wants. His gains are infact realized.

Veggeta_MAX posted...

I've been defending Elon for years now and one day he will come to this websight and see my good deeds and hopefully give me a percentage of his wealth.

hoping this works out for you

Xethuminra posted...

Imagine trying to explain that Earth isnt flat to ancient people. You can draw them the model & show them evidence.... But you can't show them pictures. You can't corroborate it.

This is no different

fyi ancient people did not believe the earth was flat

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


no one understands the process

we assume a certain set of events happen

but like all science, an assumption is meaningless until a hypothesis is tested and verified

therefore, it is a belief without evidence till we find life on a body that is not earth

Questionmarktarius posted...

Are you advocating for a mortgage tax? Or auto-loan tax?
Neither of those have interest on par with the tax rate, and usually not even on par with inflation over the past couple decades or so.

Are you a fucking billionaire getting loans at .0001% interest rate to act as an income or a dude who makes $35k a year whose loan has a much higher interest rate and you cannot just pay it off?

@Questionmarktarius

Damn_Underscore posted...

?

People ITT want to to be that way or are implying it should be that way.

dude capital gains tax is what happens when you sell your stock

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax

I think you are trying to say people want to tax assest before they become a capital gain.
If so, your take is ignorant.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


what made it happen and why would that happen somewhere else?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


to believe life exists off earth

you believe it does correct?

Damn_Underscore posted...

People actually think its a good idea to tax capital gains smfh

Capital gains are taxed ???

Monolith1676 posted...

I am okay with it. They had an idea and were successful with it. I am not going to be mad or upset at someone just because someone tells me to be.

Actually, all these dudes did not come up with the idea themselves.
Elon doesn't build Tesla fyi. He hires a bunch of engineers and pays them a paltry wage compared to his own and probably other places as well.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Loans aren't income.

They are when the interest you pay is less than the tax percentage and used to avoid paying said tax.

Xethuminra posted...

There could be multiple virtual realities, like a pyramid scheme. In fact, over a long enough period of time, that should become the case in terms of the fate of the universe & its inhabitants. Organisms and entities will naturally attempt to recreate the past, memories, and form true microcosms, and recreate the universe itself, and form new universes, and alter the rules of reality itself. This story is somewhere between the beginning and the end.....

A sad combination of misunderstanding, lies, and profound scientific discovery has caused people to lack respect for the profundity of their own existence....and namely their mind. You can't tell me youre just some animal. This is limbo, baby

A step away from heaven
A step away from hell

Whats your earliest memory? The human brain is fascinating and people pretend that other "smarter" people understand it? Lol. We WANT to understand it, but the first step in solving a problem IS acknowledging its existence in the first place. Children are born crying, peculiar things..... And you (in your mind) just kinda dropped yourself off at a certain point as a toddler and said "Hey. Let's start over. Here."

Consciousness is the great mystery

Dude I wasn't trying to prove anything.
I just wanted to explain how the notion that an afterlife is totally supernatural and therefore ridiculous is incorrect.

It is also a big assumption to say we are in a simulation. Just as big an assumption as claiming are anecdotal planet is evidence that life exists out there and we need not find actual evidence to believe.

Questionmarktarius posted...

This is just a home equity loan with a few more zeroes on the end.

Nope.

The percent interest they pay is less than your teeny teeny income gets taxed.

Wake the fuck up

MutantJohn posted...

You're talking about security-backed loans?

They take a loan using their assets as collateral BUT

THIS IS HUGE

BUT, the interest rate is literally like .001%

The reporters found out a dude with 100 million can get loans with like .018 interest rates. These billionaries can get even less.

It is literally income.
The part that tricks people is that they still pay some teeny teeny tiny interest.
But you have to realize that what interest they pay is FUNDAMENTALLY tiny compared to the tax rate so..... why give it any mind?

MutantJohn posted...

Of course not. They get dividends and probably constantly liquidate small portions and rebuy.

@MutantJohn

They don't even have to do that.

They can literally go to any bank and get actual literal fucking cash and use that as income without having to pay tax on it.

They can do this because they are billionaires. Millionaires cannot do this.

How is it that so many people still don't know this?

Xethuminra posted...

You infer a simulation needs a creator. Why should it? Does life need a creator? Something synonymous with the very fabric of space and time wouldn't necessarily need a beginning or an end. Imagine an infinite chain of theortical figures.

What's more likely is that, from a certain perspective, we are a virus within what you would perceive as a simulation.

I agree it can exist as that. But then your observation is meaningless. If you die and then can be reborn as you still after death, that is an afterlife.
So I had thought perhaps your point was before the simulation existed there was no afterlife.

MutantJohn posted...

Yes, wealth includes assets. They own so many assets, you'll never compete.

gg wp America

are you under the illusions their money is all tied up and unusable?

@MutantJohn

Health posted...

Those 2 people created companies that people want to buy products from. Why cant others be like them?

Tesla is not a car company

it is a technology company....

eston posted...

How the fuck is Zynga still worth that much

probably still sniffing your data on FB

Xethuminra posted...

If there is nothing behind the simulation, then there is no difference.

Incorrect. That just means the original makers of the simulation had no afterlife. But that would not be us.

BlueTigerLion posted...

Anyone can buy stocks and play the same game as Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. It is not the 1% fault people spend all their money instead of saving/investing.

brb, gonna hit the stock market

Tenlaar posted...

Aliens are not supernatural. An afterlife is. Not the same.

If we live in a simulation, an afterlife is also not supernatural. It is entirely explainable by computer science.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


You are not terrestrial life?

Tyranthraxus posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/5/3/AARLwzAACyrN.jpg

lmao

Doe posted...

You're close. You're really close

Excuse me?
People are greedy, especially in a culture where your worth is tied to how much you make.

If you think this somehow proves unions are bad you are quite wrong.

BlueTigerLion posted...

Those people's wealth are in stocks.

oh then I guess that is TOTTALLY FINE!

NOTHING TO SEE HERE BOYS

WOW THANKS FOR POINTING THIS OUT

Aressar posted...

Although extraterrestrial life cannot be currently proven, looking at statistical circumstances of the universe it is much more likely (albeit still theoretical at this point) that life/intelligence out there exists in some form than the existence of an afterlife as humanity in general considers it.

This is a false assumption about how life starts. The idea is if there is water, then there is chance of life. Yet this is not a proven assumption. It would infact be more logical alien life is not water based.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


It literally is. It is hilarious to see people who have nothing but faith in something bash others in the same circumstance but then deny that they are they same.
Why are alien believers like this?

"So I am alive on earth that means somewhere out there aliens exist!" no, no it doesn't.

But to that idea, the afterlife people can craft the same argument. Also, I should mention, reincarnation is also an afterlife. Though I guess even those people claim the soul keeps some properties from the previous lives.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/3/9/AAefUOAACyq_.png

oh, and they also don't pay their taxes cause "got no income!" guh huhuhuhuh

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


That is like saying there is evidence of an afterlife and that is that there is a pre-death life.