Lurker > Fizaga

Balrog0 posted...

Like I'm struggling to think of a scenario where it creates confusion. It's not impossible but in most of the contexts I can think of any pronoun would be confusing.

"Jim, Dan, and Joe came by earlier, man they suck" is unhelpful but no less or more than just saying he.

It's because they is a subject marker, which follow certain rules and conventions. The issue of confusion arises when the singularity or plurality of a statement matters, which is going to be contextual.

Most examples where people say it isn't problematic take simple example sentences which are often rigged to make sense because they follow established conventions or are fairly easy to parse.

If however you attempt to interchange They/Them with singular pronouns in a large research report or study that has many individual and group subjects (linguistic subject) you might find that the subject becomes confusing or ambiguous, or it becomes difficult to differentiate between when the subject is a known individual or a group. It'll also cause issues where there are multiple people in a conversation and you want to refer to a individual person but end up applying the subject to all people. OFC there will be times when it doesn't matter, but there are times when it becomes messy or confused.

OFC, if people continue to use they/them then this is something we just have to deal with, but it doesn't make those who point out that a new pronoun might be preferable ignorant.

Being a progressive doesn't prevent you from being able to enter dialogues about implementations, thats not regressive, especially when ideas are fairly new in mainstream discourse. What is regressive is to say that the intents of people who want a non binary pronoun are wrong.

I pulled up that languages have lots of exceptions, which some then go on to say "well yes, we deal with this all the time", which we do, but its a learned skill. Anyone who has studied Spanish or Japanese will understand how what may appear fast and loose with rules often isn't so fast and loose. There are established conventions that make the exceptions work, these conventions can often be a case of learning them on a case by case basis or studying lots of complex rules. Ser and Estar or and being prime examples.

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Doe posted...

there is an absolutely fucking enormous amount of things in any language, especially English, that isn't "the best". But for some reason, people only bring it up when someone wants to use 'they' as a pronoun. Our language doesn't even have a formal You (plural) or inclusive/exclusive We variants but god forbid they is singular and plural like many other words

Yes, they are correct, there are lots of exceptions but they are wrong about it only being an issue when they want to use they as a pronoun, else grammar nazis wouldn't be a thing. No?

Not problematic at all? In a third person discussion, the listener will understand who the subject is?

Before getting arsey about what I said, I'm a progressive myself and fully support people using alternative pronouns and I accept that as a gender binary person its ultimately gender fluid peoples decision on what terms they want to use. Even if I find it problematic grammatically.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

it's so confusing. we should just invent a gender neutral, singular pronoun instead of overloading the meaning of "they"

I agree with this completely. I'm a language nerd, and speak several languages, so maybe I'm a little more particular about this stuff , I dunno.

The premise is fine and I fully support people who don't identify with a single gender applying a pronoun that suits them. But the choice of pronoun for this case isn't the best. While you can implement 'they' or 'them' to a singular form in certain constructions you cannot apply it like that universally. It is going to cause confusion at some point, which will be problematic when clarity is important. Also, throwing out examples where 'they' can be applied in the singular doesn't discount the problem, languages have lots of contradictory little rules and exceptions.

It's also going to be very difficult for many non native speakers to understand. The same applies to those who might struggle with literacy.

I think it comes under a similar failing as wanting to play with gender in romance languages in ways that start to break the language grammatically.

I don't understand the desire to do this when you could just introduce a new pronoun that accomodates the fluid gender identity without introducing grammatical issues.

But, as someone who is gender binary, I have to accept their wishes, even if I don't find the language choice ideal.

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nothanks1 posted...

Or that I do want her until I learned she's ony 19 and not 25
also I'm a kissless virgin I'll have you all know

I see, so you are interested and now you're struggling to move on? Just... do it, ask her out. But don't say we didn't warn you when it all comes crashing down.

Or you could show her the two threads, and she'll stop being interested.

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Okay, how do I put this sensitively...

"ZOMG she asked for my phone number now, how weird, what ever shall I do?!?!?! "

You're making too much of a big deal out of this now, and a bit of a song and dance about her. So a 19 year old is interested in you, so what? That happens, like all the time. You're not interested, so move on.

Going on about it in the way you are is starting to make you sound like you are interested in her, or that you think its funny that a 19 year old is interested in you, or that the you're bragging.


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realtalkguy posted...

No when I mean hot girls I specifically mean younger women.

Yeah, I got that. Pinky said that the guy in your TC being with younger women is totally normal in Europe. I disagreed.

What I was saying is that age gaps between couples being as much as 15-20 years aren't exactly uncommon in most of Europe, and don't particularly get reactions. For example you'll find lots of people in their 20's dating people in their 30's, or even early 40's and nobody cares. It would be considered an age gap but not anything controversial, problematic or anything like that. However, someone in their 20's with the guy in your TC would be unusual and would probably be judged negatively by many people. So while the thrust of what some people have said is accurate, I don't think it extends so far as the guy in your TC.

As Europeans we are aware that we are generally more liberal than the USA and are more relaxed about stuff than the majority of Americans. Think 'The Overton Window'. When Americans question about Europe we can have a tendency to be aware of this difference and sometimes exaggerate the extent at which we are more liberal/relaxed about certain topics.

See: "European TV is full of sex and nudity... explicit sex and nudity, that you'd never get in the USA". This statement is certainly true, but also often exaggerated in its extent. Also Europe tends to be bulked as one thing. Case in point here, the statement is true of the UK, and Germany, and Spain, and Italy... but even more true of France than anywhere else. But still, even in France (who only talk about sex, wine and cheese... all their TV is about sex, wine and cheese) not as true as many Americans believe nor as much as many Europeans claim when questioned by Americans.

Like that.

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This is a stupid thread. Europe is a large place with many different cultures, and each country has many different types of people with different tastes.

The first guy definitely wouldn't struggle though, the second guy probably would.

With what Pinky said, this is a little complicated.

Older guys with much younger women (and vice versa) aren't super common, you wouldn't find guys like the first one with much younger women too often in most of Europe. But we are definitely not as hung up as Americans with this kind of stuff. Americans seem to have a much more extreme reaction to it.

However, with that said, what many Americans would consider "age gaps" are more common here, just not to the extent of that first guy.

So, there is an element of truth to what he/she is saying. But, I wouldn't go as far as to include the TC's example within that. I think they're being a bit hyperbolic.

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Some of the least feminist supporting guys out there are "sex nagative" as you put it. This doesn't make sense, look at Evangelicals.

Also, someone can think sex is good and healthy, and consider women to be objectified. Believing women shouldn't be objectified like they are doesn't mean a rejection of sex, nor does feminism mean a rejection of sex, or men, either. Most feminists enjoy healthy sex lives.


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Sorry to hear that, it must be really stressful, and sucks lacking news. Keep chasing the ward for updates and remember that she will be getting the care she needs. Going into work tomorrow might help, you'll have things to keep your mind occupied and real people around you to talk to and help keep you going.

I imagine it will be a fairly long road to recovery for her but I'm sure she will be fine if everyone is supportive.

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You know, this doesn't say much for your own self worth.

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Yeah, don't do that. It would just be creepy, and don't look up your ex, it's not healthy.

deupd_u posted...

She's "not ready to be exclusive." She knew I really liked her and wouldn't want to just fuck around, so she said she didn't want to put me through that.

I'm genuinely waiting to get my Super Likes back to send to her lol

IDK. I'm just sad. I miss her :(

As much as it may hurt and you miss her, it seems like she did the right thing though.


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This does happen all the time though, and there is no moral outrage, other than in the Daily Mail... but, because of them taking benefits and getting a free house rather than any moral issue.

Either gender switch, its a terrible life decision though.

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Ruvan22 posted...

Thank for sacrificing your brain cells so we don't have to

HAHA, after 10 minutes I was like, neah, fuck this.

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BeyondWalls posted...

Summary?

Okay, I will give a summary of what I've seen... until I get bored.

Show intro: He is getting silenced, how he has proof of voter fraud. We are going to see all this evidence, and they are hiding something thats why they are shutting him down, and that they are shutting him down is proof of them hiding something (circular reasoning there). We're going to be shocked, dismayed, etc.

First claim, something about him seeing a print out from a voting machine that clearly shows foreign hackers breaking in and swapping Trumps votes to Biden. Them shutting him down is proof that they are hiding something. No evidence of said print outs.

More show intro, he is going to have cyber security experts on, and we are going to see all this evidence. We're all going to be wow by the end, we're going to be like 100% these machines were used by other countries to win the election fraudulently for Biden. China

Now a detour about how he is so happy today, about 2 miracles that happened over the last couple of months. The first miracle was how the algorythms of the voting machines broke on election night.

Claim 2: Donald Trump got so many more millions of votes than the machines expected that they broke and had to recalibrate. This is why the states all shut down, this is why it took days or even weeks for the votes to be counted. No other election has taken days or weeks, its because the machines broke due to the massive amount of votes for Trump that the machines just couldn't handle. Says nobody understood why there were vote spikes during counting, and it was like we were in the twilight zone during this time. * He is clearly storytelling, explaining to the viewer that they were confused, and this is why *. Old school con man trick.

Then says: If the machines had estimated the votes correctly then it would have been clean cut, votes in by 3 am, Biden would have won by a little bit, and they would have said "better luck next time". But because Trump got so many votes it broke that. * he does like to ramble, but still, old school con man tricks *

Now onto how this is the biggest attack in history, the biggest cyber attack ever. Something about machines which will take us over forever. I quite like how he has Matrix style 0's and 1's on the screen while he says this. Its like a circa 2002 CT video, just without the eerie music.

Next miracle is some charts. Shows us the margin of victory for Arizona is 10,000 votes. Highlights that 36,000 "illegal aliens" voted, stresses that many illegals voted, then 26,000 ballots that were recieved the day before they were even mailed. Stresses how bizarre that is, planting doubts in the viewer. Telling them what to think. Then 50,000 votes loaded into system before polls even opened.

Now on a new chart for Michigan, 17,000 dead people voted. Then said there were 615,000 votes that were flagged for investigation all lumped together.

More of the same sort of thing for Nevada, and other states. No source for any charts, just claims. Each time, instead of explaining any of this, he says "but we will skip through that and discuss it later". The creepy CT'er music is starting now.

He's now explaining how there was a call in Georgia between the Secretary of State in Georgia and someone else (I forget who he said) when it was behind and they were like "why not give us (Biden) the dead people and some other illegal vote category and we win". Something about Trump then saying to the Secretary of State that the numbers were wrong and an argument between Trump and the Secretary of State.

Now, after 10 minutes, his point. He says "every one of these states, 2+2=4 right?, you can't count dead people, you cant count... etc... Trump should have won all these states". Then says its the biggest miracle because if this hadn't had happened and everyone did their jobs right Trump would have won and we wouldn't be here where we are today, its because of this huge attack on the machines.

Now claims that the big thing is the theft from these other countries which we will see in this video how this video will 100% prove it.

Now claims the "machines are made to steal elections, every election going forward in history if these things would have happened, these two, we wouldn't, we would never have known. Every single vote you would ever have made wouldn't have mattered. Somebody else would have made that vote. And we've all seen in this past month, and you think it wasn't communists (with communist logo on screen) coming in and taking us over." Yeah, thats a direct quote, and no, it doesn't make sense... neither logically nor grammatically.

Now: "We're seeing it the world over, they're (the communisits) are supressing, cancel culture, trying to cancel us all out. I've just seen churches, the Christian churches they're being attacked right now".

Okay... I'm done. This guy is a crazy "commies under the bed" CT'er.

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skermac posted...

its only problematic in the eyes of close minded haters who dont want people to be happy

Neah, how does that work when I speak from experience and have an age gap in my current relationship (although not as substantial, still open minded about life and gives different types of age gaps something to compare to)?

It really doesn't work out well when the younger person is 18 or 19. There is usually either a power dynamic thing going on and if it is something that happened authentically (throwing caution to the wind, giving something unconventional a chance, etc) then it usually ends up going bad because the differences in maturity and what you want from relationships is too vast to bridge and you both end up getting hurt.

Age gaps are fine and can totally work, but not when the younger person is still a teenager.

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Rika_Furude posted...

His defence was that kids running out onto the road is such an unlikely event he shouldnt have to consider that at all when driving

In a residential area at that

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RiKuToTheMiGhtY posted...

I wonder how many good relationships have not happened in recent times due to one person being stupidly hung up on the others age with that being the sole reason they decided not to pursue .

Depends how old the younger person is. Are they a teenager or are they like 20+. There is a massive difference. Plus you have to factor in the maturity of the younger party. A 23 year old can be very emotionally immature, but can also be very emotionally mature. Not the case with 18/19 year olds, no matter how well they mask it. The brain goes through changes in the late teens, and again for a few years at 20. Dating someone under 20 is asking for problems.

There is a legit reason younger women like older men and a clear reason most men for thousands of years prefer younger women.

Thats a generalisation, but it doesn't matter. Someone who is 18/19 who prefers older guys/women, and appears mature often isn't once things start to get a little serious.

Its pretty clear that the old system was working but now its clear a lot of weak men are shamed for liking a woman who is 18 or 19 if they are 30 or older just because older women are mad about it.

These alleged older women who get mad about it (implying jealousy) being the reason people don't date 18/19 year olds is a fantasy. I was encouraged by the women you seem to think are the reason people don't do it, "live a little", "you're still young, you should enjoy it while you still can", "you've spent years in a relationship, you should have a little fun" etc, etc. All those old chestnuts.

So, nope. People advise against it because its problematic not because they're jealous. This is just something people who want to date 18/19 year olds say to dismiss peoples advice.

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sktgamer_13dude posted...

I accept criticism. When its actual factual criticism, not I feel you were tailgating even when you werent so youre scum.

You can feel I tailgating all you want and youd be wrong. But youre an expert at that (being wrong that is).

I think the problem is that you don't get your own fault. You're complaining about someone applying their brakes because you could hit them, and don't get whats wrong with that.

What if a kid had ran out in front of them (you said, it was a residential area), and they had to do a full emergency stop. At the distance and speeds you were going then you'd most likely have ploughed into the back of them and potentially shunted their car forward.

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Crazyman93 posted...

You actually are. And I'll add to it that if they were the only two people on the road the "flow of traffic" argument falls apart.

I was about to point this out myself, wondering why nobody had commented.

You don't know why the vehicle in front has slowed, there could be any number of reasons. They might feel the driving conditions aren't suitable to go at the speed limit, they might have seen some hazard further up, maybe they don't feel comfortable driving at a certain speed on particular roads because they're aware of certain hazards or dodgy segments of the road, they might have hindered visibility (i.e. light glare, windows suddenly starting to steam up, etc).

I had a situation coming down a motorway at night, I noticed flashing lights ahead, so started to slow down. A car coming up behind me (which was driving too fast) nearly rear ended me and had to swirve, putting him head on with the police officers who were attending an accident. While he stopped in time, one of the police officers had to leap away from the cones, he was that close.

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Conflict posted...

GTA is an RPG.

You (player) assume role of CJ in a fictional setting (Los Santos). Player takes responsibility of acting out roles (playing as CJ) through a process of structured decision making (completing missions and tasks). Actions may fail depending on rules (shoot, the person you're shooting might roll out of the way)

Hmm... GTA is an interesting one because there is a debate over whether it carries enough RPG components to be defined as an RPG. Personally I lean into it being a hybrid Action Adventure + RPG game.

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pogo_rabid posted...

She looks like she's 12

My daughter is a dancer and used to watch her videos on YouTube all the time, all the kids at the dance classes were into her. I thought she was younger too, but I think its just that her style is very kiddish.

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GrabASnickers posted...

Yeah but these people aren't in the situation and the guy already made up his mind he wasn't going to do anything, and a bunch of people are like "hell yeah do it bro". Comes off very much like they'd do just about anything (legal) to get some

Oh yeah, the ones who are saying "its hot", absolutely. But the ones who are more "hey, why not"... thats very typical. When I threw caution to the wind, so many people were saying that. And I mean guys being jovial, women friends who are completely rational, were just like "hey, live, you spend years in a relationship... now its time to live again, blah blah blah". So that sentiment is totally common.

BIB: Yeah. I agree, from experience, he really shouldn't.

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GrabASnickers posted...

Not surprised that a site full of virgins/people who don't get laid often has a bunch of people who don't bat an eye at this. You'd have to be pretty desperate to date a 19 year old at 34, I mean ewww.

Though it's pretty ridiculous that this guy thought she was 25 and now decided to share lol. I'd keep it to myself if I did something like that

No, not desperate. Thats a cheap stereotype. Typically, its not desperate virgins who find themselves in these situations. I know lots of people who have done this stuff, sure sometimes it might be desperation or something weird. More often than not though, its just a case of getting swept up in something, having a "well, you only live once" mindset and believing that it'll all work out. Followed by getting hurt.

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Sad_Face posted...

This isn't necessarily due to age but inexperience (they're not mutually exclusive). I had friends who had ample dating experience but still were unprepared for their relationships that ended up flipping their worlds and made life 10000x more difficult.

But it is true that the biggest boon of a younger girl is that she's more malleable and willing to learn while someone OP's age has had her ideals forged by years of life experience which would make it very difficult for her to adapt to a different lifestyle. This makes a difference if you're aiming for a grand life goal that involves a good deal of risk. I don't know what OP's ambitions are so these things may or may not matter to him.

This is true, but I think it goes deeper than that. I've done the younger woman thing twice, one ended badly and the other (my current GF as it happens) is going well. The key difference is that while my GF is younger than me, shes older than the one that went badly.

Ironically, the one that went badly was 19 when it all started. It wasn't something I went into lightly, I had just gotten out of a very bad long term relationship so my mindset was like "okay, I'll give this a chance". I was as fluid as possible about it all, and still, loads of problems started to occur. The biggest problem was what we wanted from each other. Which was ironic because I wanted to take things slow, but she pushed quite hard to move faster. But she ended up confusing the hell out of me, talking big and then freaking out about it when I eventually started to come around to that. I think when someone is 19/20 they're starting to get ready for serious relationships so toy with the idea, but just aren't there yet. It causes problems, and we were just discussing the possible future, not actively planning anything.

Then there are ambitions, even though I was more tied down than her I was really flexible, but it was almost impossible to draw any compromise. That was definitely an age thing.

Also, arguments tend not to resolve themselves well.

Needless to say, it didn't last and we both ended up getting hurt when it ended and I wasn't doing that again.

A short time later, stuff started to develop with a friend. She was also younger so I was way more hesitant about it, but people around me encouraged me to give it a go. While she was younger, she was in her early 20's and its been a totally different experience. Both mostly on the same page, progressing at around the same pace, planning stuff wasn't stressful, both flexible, everything is good and normal. We have a great relationship.

People change a lot between 19 and their 20's. I think 19 is just too young, if someone is younger I think they need to be in their 20's for you to be at all on the same page with stuff.

So yeah, TC, you're making the right choice. From experience, it doesn't tend to work out well.


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Alucard188 posted...

I love how people are shitting on the TC here, like there isn't a moral or ethical quandary to be had when you're dating a co-worker almost half your age.

^ This.

While I don't have issues with age gaps, if everyone are consenting adults, its their lives, this would be a bad idea all round. I certainly wouldn't be making my interest known in this situation, I'd put it down to "shit happens" and leave it. It could go really badly. If they were clearly interested then that changes things a bit, but 19 is still a teenager which gives you an advantage over them even if you try not to have one, and there is the issue of work colleagues.

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DS - (ix)
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From laughing at a corny joke to marriage seems like you guys are moving too fast. Slow down, no good shall come of it.

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DS - (ix)
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Its a shame how many have said they have and fled the scene.

I've done it once.

Our drive in a previous property wasn't the best to reverse out of in the dark, especially if there was a car parked opposite because it had some annoying blind spots due to the surrounding hedgerow, having a sloped drive and was kind of a tight road (typical narrow road cul-de-sack stuff).

One evening the boyfriend of one of our neighbours daughters was parked opposite. As I was reversing out of my drive I clipped his car putting a dent into the door. He was 17, had just passed his test and got his first car and it wasn't a wreck, he'd saved for ages for it. We also spoke to them regularly and the daughter was always friendly to my kids so I felt really bad about it.

Anyway, I knocked on the door. Daughter answers, asked for her BF, and explained. He was cool about it, but didn't know what to do - how this stuff works. I said he could get a quote and drop it to me and I'd pay for it. All was good. Came in at 450, so not cheap but not as bad as it could have been.

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hockeybub89 posted...

I, for one, think cops should make situations better, not worse.

I guess that's why I'm not a cop.

And thats exactly the reason people with your mindset should be a cop.

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DS - (ix)
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Policing by consent, like most of the modern world has, would help with this stuff.

In most modern countries this just wouldn't be playing out and certainly there would be no attempts at justification. Only prosecution.

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Probably

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Doom_Art posted...

ok

see i feel like i'm getting mixed messages from CE on this

lol, its music (subject to taste) and has quite a vintage at that. OFC you're going to get mixed messages.

Trumble posted...

I mean, they like tea, so there's precedent.

har har. Although this is a stereotype. While people do drink tea, coffee is more popular.


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I'm British and I don't like The Beatles

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I voted "yes and I would say so", however I don't know whether I would actually say anything. Maybe, maybe not. This is going to vary so much between couples though, some couples don't care about these kinds of celebrations.

For me, it would probably set alarm bells off because of how she is. It would be very weird for her not to spend days such as Valentines with me.

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DS - (ix)
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They have been banned from sale to under 16's here in the UK. I'm not sure whether the legislation has been passed into law yet though, but most retailers have banned the sale to under 16's anyway.

I agree with it, my kids don't drink energy drinks. They're full of sugar and really bad for their health. I also don't let them drink soda often, an occasional treat sometimes but generally not.

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No conflict resolution skills, kids clearly in an abusive situation that shes trying to escape. Where I'm from they would be dismissed and in court on child abuse charges themselves. Shes 9, thats the same as my own daughter, the video made me really angry. The hell is wrong with them? Because they certainly aren't normally functioning human beings.

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Shablagoo posted...

Better than in what way? Abby and especially Ellie are pretty fully realized characters that Im not sure can be matched in gaming. Ashley Johnson really did a good job at making me view Ellie as a real person, and shes been in my heart for almost a decade. Hard to beat that.

^ This.

I'm no fan of TLoU, it's not my sort of thing. But I recognise when something is of a certain quality and they are. They're fully realised characters, even if one doesn't like them.

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DS - (ix)
I helped with a game: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/world-war-b/id1096584665

MrResetti posted...

It'll get better. At least it wasn't a very long relationship

^ This. It might not sound like the best bit of advice but its true. It will get better, and someone else will come along and you'll fall in love all over again. It takes time, but since it was a really short relationship it shouldn't take long. You'll go through the motions of feeling hurt and lonely, but it does pass. Try to distract your mind with things you enjoy and reconnect with friends, or try to make new ones. Also, don't be afraid to let it all out, while dwelling on it doesn't help, bottling it up makes this stuff worse too.

I'm assuming from what you've said that she was a friend for some years before hand and that might be why a short relationship breaking has come as a hit. If this is the case then that does suck because its a friendship either lost or seriously damaged.

I think, before dating friends you both really need to be sure that you're really into the idea of being a couple and are going to give it a good shot. I've been there once with a friend who crossed boundaries and didn't progress and it fucked the friendship over for a really long time but we became friends again. Also my current relationship was a friendship that evolved but we did the smart thing and made sure this was something we would both work at because the friendship was important to us. If you ever date someone you already have a friendship with again, make sure you discuss what it means to that friendship if it falls apart and that you're both sure and will actually put the effort in for the friendships sakes.

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DS - (ix)
I helped with a game: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/world-war-b/id1096584665

Career criminal released from prison wants to lead a straight life, but gets dragged back into a life of crime against his will, resulting in him taking over the city. In this case with 80's music.

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DS - (ix)
I helped with a game: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/world-war-b/id1096584665

Okay, another.

Guy who is a failure at life bumbs into young girl who accuses him of being a pervert so she can blackmail him into helping her find the promised land. They bump into combat crew from previous game who land him with an obscene debt he has to pay off before sacrificing himself to save the kid.

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DS - (ix)
I helped with a game: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/world-war-b/id1096584665

Alteres posted...

This could be a half dozen jrpgs.

haha

Eliza3 posted...

I know this one

lol

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DS - (ix)
I helped with a game: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/world-war-b/id1096584665

Mentally ill guy meets childhood friend and forms a combat crew to kill some dude he thinks wants to become a god, gets innocent girl killed in the process, nobody says anything, kills bad guy, fails to save world, dead girl deus ex machina.

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DS - (ix)
I helped with a game: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/world-war-b/id1096584665