Lurker > andylt

I'm a paragon guy but I also have a base instinct to instantly hit every interrupt that pops up, for better or worse.

skullbone posted...

Destroy is a little weird because yes you're killing the Geth and Edi but it feels the most paragon because it's a more hopeful ending to me. Shepherd is disagreeing with the reapers that humanity and robots can't live together and he's also breaking the cycle. Sure it's sad that Edi died but they could make a new Edi in like a week right?

Reject is okay thematically but not necessarily a satisfying ending for the characters you've spent 3 games with.

Shepard is disagreeing that organics and synthetics can't live in peace by... killing all synthetics? And making a new EDI is impossible, it undermines the whole point of her individual unique life! I agree about reject, thematically it is strong but it's such a half-assed ending that isn't treated like a full thing so it doesn't really work.

Honestly my main objection with all the endings is how Shepard takes it upon him/herself to decide the fate of the galaxy, whether genociding all synthetics, becoming a reaper god, or forcibly altering all life at a genetic level. It's such a squad/community-based series that goes entirely single-minded on Shep in the last 10 minutes, I hate how the squadmates don't join you up there. Hitting the destroy button with EDI right there would at least force Shepard and the player to confront the reality of what they're about to do.

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I just can't see anyone going through the Quarian/Geth arc in ME3 and watching EDI's growth and then deciding 'yeah we should just zap all the synthetics dead who cares', Synthesis is silly and weird as hell (Joker's mecha-cap) but it's the only one where everybody lives. Don't get me wrong, I think all the endings are very bad, but Destroy is just so callous it's bizarre to me that it's considered the best option among so many.

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Everything about ME3's story felt designed to make Synthesis the 'good' ending, like yeah it's weird and doesn't make sense and arguably goes against the first two games but that's clearly the one that was written to be the 'true' one imo. Destroy is just way too harsh with killing the Geth right after they're suddenly free, and EDI right after she's accepted being alive. Control is silly, why have Illusive Man die if you can just follow his plan anyway. Reject is a thematically consistent one I like in theory but it's also clearly tossed in just to placate fans who hated the original choices (First time playing Extended Cut I tried shooting Starchild and was pleasantly surprised that that immediately takes you right into Reject lol).


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People have really strong opinions in here! I thought Lost Odyssey was decent myself, there's a bunch of very cliche anime tropes with the characters but some good stuff in there too. I for one really liked the short stories and thought they added a lot to the overall world building and characterisation, and made the game feel less like the standard JRPG it probably is. They're not exactly like datalogs either, they are dreams Kain (and sometimes someone else) has that are framed like actual short stories, much easier to read imo.

But then I don't hate FFXIII either so maybe it's just different tastes.

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Oh Andromeda does have pretty good combat too, but being limited to 3 skills and not being able to control your squadmates' actions drops it quite a bit imo.

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I think ME2 had the best balance of difficulty (Insanity really is the most fun in that game), but 3 added a bunch of little quality of life improvements to the combat that I just have to rate the gameplay as better there.

The enemies were better in 2 though. Still salty over ME3 having literally 3 enemy groups the entire game.

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Does this have cross-save? If not that's a silly tweet, we'd have to play Ironclad first!

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Leonhart4 posted...

People were hoping for some reason they'd let you recruit squadmates in any order instead of having them split into two parts.

That was the original plan and they had the voice lines recorded, so I get why some expected/hoped for it to finally be implemented. But yeah, it's confirmed that none of the cut content across the trilogy will be restored.

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Also none of the ME3 Multi sadly.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Just finished: FFVI!
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So this is just some graphical touching up, no actual improvements to gameplay or anything? Ah well. Good for those who have wanted it!

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StifledSilence posted...

Mario and Strikers

For a second I thought I had missed an announcement of a new Super Mario Strikers!

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Plenty of these games could be entirely forgotten (13Sen, Fall Guys), or overshadowed by sequels. Of those you listed, Animal Crossing, Tsushima, TLOU, Doom, Yakuza and Ori could be surpassed by future entries in that world.

Even FF7R could be interesting depending on how that goes- if future entries are better it could be forgotten, if the next ones are terrible people could either look fondly upon it or disregard the whole series (like people do with the Star Wars sequels- 7 was received well at the time but now many write off the whole trilogy), and if no other entry ever comes it'll probably be fine. Honestly I find it difficult to even imagine that far ahead anyway, seems impossibly far away.

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So the PS version of I+II is straight up better than the GBA one? I got Tactics on PSOne Classics so that's probably an easier way for me to get them anyway, thanks! Weird that III got a full blown 3D remake but no port of the original anywhere.

Grimlyn posted...

You can go a bit further, founding Monolith Soft as its head!

his wife is also Soraya Saga, who I've mentioned a few times regarding those earlier interviews & in regards to the Figaro Bros

Aw that's sweet. Xenoblade will be my first proper Monolith game but I've played a bunch of the Ninty games they worked on. Cool to think about it being started by Square alums and now being part of Nintendo.

Soraya and her husband Tetsuya Takahashi submitted a script for Final Fantasy VII which was called "too dark" and "complicated" for a fantasy game, but were allowed to start a new project based on the script, which was worked into a full treatment with cutscenes, eventually being released under the name Xenogears

Xenogears was almost Final Fantasy VII?! That is wild.

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Well I love BotW so that's another good sign! I will try to keep my expectations in check for both Xeno and IX though, I know how these things can be.

Ashethan posted...

I'd say play I before IX. It's pretty short, and IX makes some references.

I ran a poll a while ago on which to play and IX was a clear second to VI (before stuffing), but I do plan to eventually get around to all of them. Also I'd probably want the GBA version of I+II and they've been a bit annoying to get.

mnkboy907 posted...

If you play the remaster of IX, you can speed up the battle speed, which is one of the biggest complaints.

Yeah I've heard of this problem, but IIRC someone said the trouble is that the battle intros take too long but the speed change increases the whole battle too much? IDK, I'll see when that time comes.

Grimlyn posted...

ya go my tetsuya takahashi

*wikis* oh wow he went from directing graphics of SNES games to being a whole director of full games, cool.

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Switch 2 will have Mario Kart 8 Deluxe S Definitive Edition. It's the same game but with playable Pauline, Nabbit and Pink Gold Baby Daisy.

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Grand Kirby posted...

Mario Kart 9 is already out, and it sucks

Live or Tour?

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Just finished: FFVI!
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I remember now that IX is a bit divisive here! But VI had its share of detractors in one of these topics and I liked it a lot, so I hope I'll be one of its fans.

I also didn't know there was such a direct overlap between FFVI and Xenoblade fans, that bodes well for me.

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Mario Party still selling very well despite zero updates since launch. Sad!

Sad to see Xeno drop off so heavily like that. Yay for Pikmin though!

Edit: whoops misread stuff with Mario!

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Even if you ignore the third versions (I don't think you should), there's FR/LG and HG/SS that come before B/W.

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Resident Evil is a case where you really can't go by the numbers, they are so random with when they use subtitles and when numbers. 0, Code Veronica and REmake are all mainline entries in my opinion, so the 5th main game would be REmake. Some would argue that to be top for sure!

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I've decided I probably won't bother with the other extra stuff, at least not right now. Maybe I'll come back to it sometime. That sadly means it's the end of the playthrough itself! As always, thanks all for following + helping + commenting, I've really enjoyed going through this series with you folks around.

I - II - III - IV - (TAY) - V - Final Fantasy VI - VII - (VIIR - DoC - CC) - VIII - IX - X - (X-2) - XII - (RW) - XIII - (XIII-2 - LR) - XV - Tactics - (TCB)

Next up: It'll probably be a while before I come back to this. There's a bunch of games I got over the holidays that I haven't touched at all yet, including Xenoblade, which I've never played before and I imagine will take a long long time to get through. But when I do get back to it, the next will be Final Fantasy IX. I will miss the SNES/GBA era and have enjoyed my time with it greatly! After IX the floor is wide open, I'll probably run another poll to get some kind of consensus. For now though, this'll be it.

There's been a lot of great links and tracks posted here, but one I have kept coming back to listen to more than the rest (thanks PunishedBen!), so I'll leave with this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln9Sq7IOP3o

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Yeah I agree about Celes, despite what was said in that interview there is absolutely a clear tiering to the ensemble in terms of relevance. It might be to Celes' benefit that she's not the explicit lead though, this way she kinda sneaks up on you as the game goes on and she's not stuck with generic leading character blandness that sometimes happens. I remember the flashback in question but didn't notice her there at all, that is pretty cool. Although lol that means that Terra/Celes/Locke are the first three we see, and are clearly the most important 3 of the cast.

Grand Kirby posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zExDUoaZPo

Sabin is a legend. He can suplex anything.

Stuff like this really makes me want a full remake of this game lol, Sabin is clearly the best Monk in the series so far (sorry Tifa!).

Earthshaker posted...

Of note about Cyan and Doma itself - they ALSO feature as FFXIV callbacks in Stormblood. Doma itself is a rather large part of the Far East/Yanxia, and they discuss the Romanization of the name "Cyan" being "Sian" for a not-onscreen political figure.

Also it is home to Yotsuyu, probably one of the best visually designed people in Stormblood.

You've gotta stop making me want to play XIV lol, I'd never get another entry in the series done! Maybe if/when I get done with all of the others I'll give it a go, I love all the neat references you've mentioned.

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UltimaterializerX posted...

You know Ultimate has sold 20 million copies, right?

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe has sold way more, I guess Pink Gold Peach is a big shot now! But really I don't think Smash presence automatically boosts characters as much as people assume, and how many people have bought Fighter's Pass 2 anyway?

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DeepsPraw posted...

no video games for me, thanks

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I honestly don't see Smash doing much for Sephiroth. Remake should be 100x more consequential, and from the sounds of it that helps the girls and Barret way more than him (thinking Zelda BOTW kinda boost, though probs not as extreme).

And don't sleep on Cloud, he's the lead in a proper game for the first time in decades, that could be a big deal!

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I'm not really familiar with Vision and Wanda outside of this show but I heard somebody say that Vision doesn't have superspeed normally, so following that she must be putting aspects of her brother onto him? Could be setup for him returning. I'd be fine with that but as far as other Avengers go I would rather as little outside guest stuff as possible, just keep it to Wanda/Vision's POV inside the illusion.

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Slay the Spire
Pocket Card Jockey

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
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I liked Cyan being a mix of Olde English Warrior and Japanese Samurai, I thought it worked!

Maria=Gogo is the best theory so far, I'll take it. One day Gogo will disappear and then Celes starts acting a little strangely...

2. Sabin Rene Figaro
Sabin is one of the most clear-minded characters in the game, he's not one for complaining about his situation and he generally seems to have life figured out, relatively. Despite his appearance and fighting ability he's not exactly the hothead the others act like he is, the first time we see him he tries to reason with Duncan's son and only resorts to violence when necessary. Of course soon after that he jumps into the rapids to chase after Ultros, so he's fine with violence for the right cause and can get a bit lost in the heat of the moment.

He wears his heart on his sleeve, as seen with his reaction to Figaro Castle not mourning his dad, his reaction to Duncan being alive, and in possibly my favourite moment of his how he treats Gau's father for abandoning him. I see him as like the heart of the group, a reliable rock of stability. It's no coincidence that he's the first person to rejoin in the World of Ruin. He's not important to the plot or anything but I always liked his presence, his easy relationships with the rest of the cast and his dynamic with Edgar. Gameplaywise he was the biggest damage dealer in the game for me and his pseudo-fighting game Blitz skill is maybe the best of this game's new additions.

Sabin is just a gentle, moral, real good dude who always goes out of his way to help others. He's far from the most complicated character in the cast but I was drawn to him nonetheless, he's a bright light amongst all the tragedy and doom in the game and I think the journey would be worse without him around. Also he Meteor Strikes a train.

1. Celes Chere
I doubt this is much of a surprise to anyone following this topic, to me Celes is a top top character. I was familiar with her name but nothing else about her before playing, and when it comes to memorable moments she has an embarrassment of riches to choose from. Her backstory is instantly compelling, bad guy gone good is always a fun trope. She's a very internal character which I tend to like, independent and headstrong but really much more vulnerable and longing than she first appears, and her story is very solemn throughout.

I've said earlier I see Celes as kind of a dark mirror to Terra, and in a way this hurts Terra's characterisation because Celes is just clearly more interesting (to me) in every sense. She slowly grows in prominence throughout the story, with three major brilliant sequences of note:
1. The Opera is wonderful, illuminating her character and the themes she/the game will follow,
2. Celes stabbing Kefka on the Floating Continent is a big breakout scene that Terra wouldn't manage to emulate until the very end (even if Celes does arguably cause the World going into Ruin with her actions here lol), cementing her loyalty and desire to fight for Good,
3. My favourite scene in the whole game: her attempted suicide in the wake of Cid's death. A tragic echo of the opera scene, an incredibly affecting moment for the player, and a much needed release of emotion for someone who has bottled things up for so long. Combined with her renewed sense of purpose and vow to live on after seeing evidence of human survival, this is just... a perfect set of scenes, I don't know why they made it optional.

Throughout the game there's several little moments that help flesh her out- her reaction to Terra asking if she's even capable of love is very telling, her convincing Setzer (and maybe herself) to fight for a new dream, her concern for Terra's well-being going into Kefka's Tower, her silent scene outside the inn at Albrook with Locke, going back in the ending for the bandana that is obviously very important to her, there's so many tiny bits that the others don't get nearly enough of. I've talked about her and Locke's connection already, but it really is impressive how despite it being a major relationship it's still played so low-key. Very fitting for Celes' character. The only criticism I have is one I've mentioned before, how she never really confronts her actions as a General in the Empire, but I suppose it fits her character not to open up about this.

More than anything else, Celes finding the acceptance of others (and through that acceptance of herself) is the perfect encapsulation of the game's themes, and her decision to fight for life and for a future in the face of overwhelming despair helps frame the entire back half of the game, giving the whole thing a much stronger sense of emotional weight. She is truly a fantastic character, an all-time great in the series as far as I'm concerned, and when I look back on this game it will be hard not to think of Celes and her journey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iTXct134go


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Fusion was referred to as Metroid IV during development and looking around most sources seem to place Fusion as 4th/Prime as 5th, but yeah it's debatable.

scarletspeed7 posted...

Seasons of the Good Wife

Oh this is a great shout, easily the best season.

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Metroid Prime
Smash Bros Ultimate
Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze
24
Not my opinion, but many would say Breaking Bad.

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^I can't imagine them letting something like that happen now, I'd prefer little stories of the characters' pasts than the like dozen CG prologue movies vomiting exposition at you like they do these days.

4. Locke Cole
Of the group, Locke feels the most like a default leading character. There's more than a little Bartz in his personality I think, but with the added layers of tragedy that make him stand out. He's weirdly very prominent but also not very connected to the central plot, just a decent endearing guy helping to save the world. Of course much of his driving force is his guilt over losing Rachel and obsession with both getting her back and not repeating what he considers his mistake, which manifests as him being very protective towards women.

I like how initially he is close with Terra, then it shifts to Celes and it eventually becomes clear he is just very attached to protecting women. His relationship with Celes is interesting, there's romance there of course but I find it much more interesting how the two are just drawn to each other to try and fill the holes in their life. It's a symbiotic relationship, Celes wanting to feel accepted and loved and Locke wanting someone to save. In theory it could end up very toxic but I think the two move through their traumas enough that they wind up with a natural intimacy that works pretty well. I appreciate that they don't ever go so hard on the romantic aspect of their relationship, it's obviously there but aside from a few jokes they don't overplay it, what's important is them caring about each other. They don't even kiss I think.

His obsession/dedication to Rachel remarkably pays off, and her reiterating her love to him basically just gives him permission to forgive himself and move on with his life. Objectively this is maybe a bit too neat of a resolution, but emotionally it works well. His top moment is probably the opera sequence, he fits into the hero role very well (his relationship with Ultros is even a little reminiscent of Bartz's with Gilgamesh) and there's enough nuance to him that he's never boring. Love that he's a terrible actor. I also love thieves in RPGs so he was always in my party. Shout-out to another moment too: him apparently bandaging that gull which inadvertently gives Celes drive to go on. That kind of moment of fate/coincidence really strengthens the narrative and makes the whole thing feel more destined, as well as reiterating what a good guy he is that he gave up a close personal possession just to help heal a gull.

3. Cyan Garamonde
Does anyone have a rougher time of it than poor Cyan? It's a stacked category in this game, but seeing the dead body of his wife and child and then having to watch them board the train to the afterlife... it's incredibly haunting. The overly formal honourable knight vibe he has is very quickly overshadowed by the tragedy at Doma, and him going berserk with rage and flailing at the Empire afterwards (moments after we're introduced to a more human side of the Empire in Leo) is so good, a great example of gameplay and narrative combining.

Introducing him to us at the point the game does is a very smart move, we pretty much skip right past all the tropey banter and jokes and get to the real emotional connection part so much faster. For a while he's basically just waiting to die, he wants vengeance but isn't consumed quite the way Tellah is, it feels more like he's just waiting for a chance to end his suffering in an honourable way. The scenario with Sabin, Shadow and him is one of the game's highlights looking back, and I appreciate that he was the only person in the party to get mad at Celes for the deaths she's responsible for.

Characterwise, Cyan fares better in the World of Ruin than most. He gets not one but two really sad story sequences here, first a very touching exchange of letters with Lola where he tries to provide some comfort to her while they both work through their own grief (showing both his honour and desire to help people while also his unspoken need for comfort and assurance himself). But the game doesn't end it as cleanly as that, he doesn't simply get over the deaths of his wife and child because we completed a sidequest. Seeing that he's still haunted by them in his dreams is especially sad because, like, obviously it's still on his mind. It will never not be! His wife's soul/his own subconscious convinces him to let go of his suffering (I like that it's not explicit if they're real or not), but also the fact his friends were there helping him rather than him cooped up on his own probably helped.

Despite his tragedies he's not a downer in the party, he generally keeps that covered and engages with the others pleasantly. Him seeing Gau as like a surrogate son makes a lot of sense, and I appreciate their relationship more knowing that. A good guy, a nice spin on the samurai tropes and an interesting character. Screw Bushido's long-ass load time though.

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One of the things I like about the cast is that I can see players being drawn to pretty much any of them!

RaidenGarai posted...

I never said I believed Gogo was Darill, just that it was my favorite of the theories. Im in the Gogo is Gogo camp.

Yeah sorry I worded that poorly, didn't mean to imply you believed it!

Mr Crispy posted...

Demon/Kishin has the notes "Zurvan" "Calvary God" "Ultimate God" and "Eternal Time".

There's an enemy in Dragon's Den called Zurvan anyway, but then I guess they reused Sephiroth so why not lol.

6. Terra Branford
5th-7th are all super close to me, characters that have aspects I really like but also a glaring fault that troubles me. Terra was probably the most difficult character in this list to pin down. She starts off so passive (obviously intentional), has a few moments that are really nice early on (her deciding to join the Returners is a very good scene), and just as she starts to grow as a character... she pauses. By the back half of the World of Balance she's already taken a backseat, you would think that the revelation of her identity would spur her character forward but she kind of becomes just a narrative tool for a while. By the time the world fell apart I had resigned myself to seeing Terra as just a worse version of Rydia.

It is a really interesting choice to make the de facto protagonist such a passive character, and a choice I do really like in theory. But with the game already being such a massive ensemble I think they just needed to push a little harder with Terra, give her something more to go on other than a desire for love. Of course this becomes her arc in the World of Ruin, discovering a familial love (I still really like that they chose this instead of giving her a love interest) and first rejecting to join us; then actively deciding to fight. It's hard for Terra to stand out among this cast for one simple reason- she is pure and innocent. Everybody around her is a good person but with flaws and troubles, and she's just a woman who wants to feel love and acceptance.

Hands down my favourite Terra moment comes at the final confrontation with Kefka, you can really see how far she's grown here and she obviously has the personal investment. But reducing her to the background for most of the game robs her of more moments like this, and I can't help but feel she didn't reach her full potential as a character.

5. Edgar Roni Figaro
Another difficult one for me to place, Edgar kind of snuck up on me. We've seen both the good-hearted royal and the stereotypical womaniser archetypes a million times, so much so that for a while I didn't even look underneath to consider the complexities of his character. But under the surface there is an awful lot of good here.

Edgar is smart and has a very solid set of principles that he never wavers from- his loyalty to his homeland takes precedence over any feelings towards the Empire (first keeping up appearances and then declaring war), and his loyalty to his brother has him condemn himself to a life he doesn't want to lead- and do so in such a way that Sabin doesn't feel guilty over it. Despite his surface bravado he is very willing to put others first, one of my fav little moments of his is when he lets the thieves he was with escape freely with the treasure. As well-trodden as the well-meaning monarch trope is in this series, Edgar actually feels like he cares about commoners and understands them in a way nobody else outside of Tactics does.

He doesn't really get the credit for being as smart and kind-hearted as he is, and he never outright talks about his worries and past with the same candour that most of the cast eventually do. Edgar really feels like he's meant to be an A-plot character, but the game absolutely pushes him to the background and honestly I think it makes him more interesting this way. Also his Tools are great, and I really enjoy his relaxed dynamic with Sabin.

His one obvious flaw that I won't go on about is his unwanted advances on women, and... girls. It'd be one thing to treat this like a character flaw, but he never grows or is called out on for this and it's treated as a comedic thing right until the end. I know different times and all, but it does taint a deceptively interesting character.

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If it was Darill why would Gogo not address Setzer at all? Let's just combine theories and make Gogo Siegfried's Impostor! And yeah I'm not ruling out ever trying XIV, it's just a bigger investment than I'm willing to put in right now.

8. Gau
Gau your friend! Frieeend!
For a while I thought of Gau as another joke-like character, very unimportant with little character who just had an interesting gameplay gimmick. I liked his little friendship with Cyan and his desire to help us out, but it wasn't until World of Ruin that I properly realised I liked him. The scene with his father is among my favs in the game for many reasons (including it being one of the very few parts of World of Ruin where everybody chats with each other), but more than anything it added a layer to Gau that wasn't there before. This is what I would've liked with the jokier characters further down the list. His pure happiness at seeing his father alive could be read as childlike joy or a more mature optimism in the face of rejection, but either way it makes him much more interesting to me. Those interview notes about Cyan, Sabin and Gau being a surrogate family made me really want more of that in the game, what there is is great. I'm not a big Beastmaster guy but Gau had a pretty interesting variation on it with the Veldt, the main reason he's not higher is just that in most situations it seemed to make more sense to pick a more relevant character to put in the party.

7. Shadow/Clyde
Now here's an odd one. In an open game with over a dozen playable characters, Shadow's narrative progress stands out as very unique, for better and worse. On the bad side, it's easy to miss all his backstory (as I pretty much did!) and to let him die accidentally early on. But the mystery of him and the game leaning into the shadowy assassin tropes really made him work. He follows the typical route of his type: starting out seemingly uninvested and in it for himself, then growing attached to those around until he decides to fight for the things he now believes in. His backstory adds layers to this though, with him already having a complicated life that he seems to be running from by the time we meet him. He remains pretty independent throughout, oddly enough his natural quietness suits the World of Ruin better than most, and this makes his little moments of reaching out to others more meaningful. One of my fav Shadow moments is him trying to give advice to Terra on the ship. Also every interaction with Interceptor is terrific.

The main thing I'm having trouble with with Shadow is resolution. He never directly confesses to Relm or Strago, or indeed anyone, and at the end of the game he seemingly decides to let himself die. It's a needlessly dark ending to me, everybody learns to accept themselves and move forward to choose life (including Shadow himself 5 minutes earlier!) then that message is really undermined by his staying behind. It's framed as a moment of acceptance, Shadow stopping running from his past, but I think it's a weak choice. Death = Redemption is a trope I'm not really a fan of, I think it would've been much stronger for Shadow to actively decide to continue the path he's set out on with the party and forgive himself for what he considers his sins. Even ignoring his death he probably has the saddest arc in the game, not especially bonding with anyone in particular (wish they'd given him more stuff like that scene with Terra) or feeling secure enough to share his secrets. I like Clyde, but not where the game takes him in the end.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Thanks for all the links tcaz! 14 really seems like the pinnacle of fanservice for the series, it's a shame I just have no interest in MMOs. The Goddess' theme is my fav of those, and I am more convinced than ever that VI's standard boss theme is the best in the series.

I wonder why it feels like Kefka gets so much more love than anyone else in VI, maybe because it's an ensemble cast I guess.

And Terra is blonde now? That doesn't look like her at all to me! Did they change it so people don't confuse her with Rydia? She looks much better green imo.

11. Setzer Gabbiani
I suspect this might be a bit controversial, but I just couldn't connect with Setzer really. He has all the plot beats there, losing Darill and going from a man without morals to a man dedicated to saving the world, but I guess it's the fact that other characters had already done those stories in a better way (Locke and Shadow respectively) that meant Setzer's journey didn't really reverberate with me. It doesn't help that he starts off kidnapping Celes/Maria with the intention of... presumably doing bad things. His best moment is the scene in the Kohlingen tavern where he agrees to pursue a new dream, but that was Celes's doing. Also decent that he agrees to help the crew even after seeing that Celes tricked him, but this was 2 minutes after he kidnapped her so I don't give him too much credit for that. I've never liked the risky Gambler classes either, and he's one of the later arrivals (a trend I'm noticing in the bottom half of this list!), so he probably didn't stand much of a chance with me.

10. Strago Magus
Strago is fine. He plays fine, a pretty standard blue mage type, and I kept waiting for his character to develop into something more interesting than it did. He is basically left with Relm after Clyde leaves town, and has no other family to speak of (clearly this wasn't the original plan as stated in that interview), but they don't really wring any emotional weight out of this. There's no confrontation or scene with Shadow, and he's largely played for laughs. The World of Ruin gave him potential with him losing Relm and joining the Cult of Kefka, but again they do nothing with this. He sees Relm's alive and just snaps out of it, and is back to normal. It's sweet watching him tell his tale of glory to Gungho, but that's more Relm's moment than his. Speaking of...

9. Relm Arrowny
As far as the 'playable child' thing the SNES games had going, Relm ranks above the IV twins but well below Krile. I get that she's apparently a top tier mage but I already had my mages set by the time she came along and didn't feel like teaching her everything, so she never really got much play for me. And I never got into Sketch. Probably not fair to her. Characterwise she's fine but again nothing special, maybe if they had leaned more into her absent relationship with Shadow I'd have liked it more. As things are, her and Strago's dynamic is pretty standard, a weaker version of Krile and Galuf's dynamic. Her best moments are tricking Strago into hunting that beast, and that weird as hell scene with Uncle Ulty.

There's a clear break between 8 and 9, everybody above this point is someone I actively like.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Eh, I started watching this cos I don't really care for the MCU and it looked interesting and different, so this week's was very disappointing for me. Back to the same old bland dialogue and cinematography that bored me away from the universe years ago, and removing pretty much all of the intrigue and mystery around the events at all. I'll see how it goes from here but this doesn't set my hopes high. Of course the show is probably aimed at MCU diehards so I'm not the target audience, but eh. Also the cast seems much more amateurish without Olsen/Bettany/Hahn around.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

The heck is Celes wearing in that vid lmao, an N64 FFVI sounds... wild, and probably wouldn't date well judging by how slow that CG was!

I looked up the Relm dream, that is indeed sad. Speaking of things I missed, I'm guessing Banon just died when Vector was mangled with the Floating Continent? I didn't see his body or a message from him anywhere. And was there anything I missed with Siegfried and his impostor? That felt unfinished. I've looked for the Setzer/Celes coin scene on Youtube too but can't find a version with Edgar and Sabin present, curious about Sabin's dialogue there.

Might grind up the crew today, still not sure if I'll bother with Dragon's Den again or the Soul Shrine. But now time for some playable character rankings!

14. Mog
Mog is in a weird spot, somewhere between joke character and real one. He's not as obviously jokey as Gogo and Umaro, but he has... literally nothing to add to any situation, no real quest or any personal dialogue or anything after he's recruited aside from being mean to Umaro. Even his ending cutscene is the weakest, he doesn't help anyone out. His dances were fun and useful at first but I pretty much stopped using them entirely by the end. Given that all the other Moogles disappeared (died?) they could've done something with him losing them? IDK, I don't dislike the guy but there's very little to him, especially in the World of Ruin. Also Moogles are my least fav of the staple FF species from a design standpoint.

13. Umaro
Yeah this is the joke tier! I don't dislike joke characters and Umaro as a premise is pretty cool, but again he has nothing to do. He's above Mog because I like his battle gimmicks, Berserker is one of the classes they improved over V and it does fit what little character he has. Him tossing the other teammates at the enemy is fun.

12. Gogo
Gogo places higher than the other non-characters as they actually have a bit of a personality quirk in the recruitment scene, and their ending scene is decent. I'm also becoming very fond of the Mime class in this series, it's not as good as in V where you can have the entire team bounce off each other but it's still cool. Sadly Gogo's stats aren't great as they can't equip Espers, but having access to any command (and any unlocked ability within that command) makes up for it. I used Gogo quite a bit at the end, but yeah can't place them any higher!

Well that was brief but the jokes are out of the way.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Fiop posted...

Going with the "mature" theme, I think this was reflected even in the battle system. I remember first playing this game on the SNES being somewhat in awe that I could use most attacks I wanted on either enemies or party members, and there were even legitimate reasons to, like using fire to cure being frozen, or killing your party members for Wrexsoul. Also, there being attacks that target both allies and enemies reflects this too, (namely, Crusader esper and Meltdown) like you're being given a lot of power and need to learn how to handle it yourself, and not use stuff carelessly. Needing to use 12/14 characters for the final dungeon is fairly bold too. All of these aspects are rarely things I see in other RPGs.

I hadn't really thought about this but it's a good point, I liked back in IV how they used battles to show narrative (Cecil coming back down the undead mountain with a holy sword etc). The first time Terra uses Magic and the guys freak out was great, wish they'd done a bit more of that too (like when you're with Strago in the burning house). The fire/frozen thing is something I wish they'd brought back in a later game, it worked nicely. I really really loved having to use 12 characters in the last dungeon, I hate when you have to pick a couple of characters in those situations and only they get to be part of the final boss cutscenes etc.

redrocket posted...

On the theme of loss, even Kefka gets in on the action. Theres an npc in Vector (before the Magitech Research Facility) who gives you a small peek into Kefkas background. Kefka was the Empires first attempt to infuse magitech power directly into a human. Basically, he was the prototype for the process they used on Celes. But something went wrong, and Kefka went insane. So Kekfa himself lost his mind, arguably even his humanity, before the game.

This sounds important, sad I missed the NPC. Helps to layer Kefka a bit, and slots nicely in with the themes, and the early ideas for Celes apparently.

GuessMyUserName posted...
Thanks for all the cool myths! The Leo one reminds me of a similar thing for FF7 about swapping an end of disc 1 event to a different character if you played your cards right. I lol'd at this Gogo one: "When you first meet Gogo, he says "I have been idle for too long." Possibly reffering [sic] to the fact that Stevenson had been dead for 30 years when FF6 came out." Brilliant. How the hell did someone even think that whole thing up in the first place though.

It's nice that the GBA version added in one of the removed superbosses, I'm continually impressed at how dedicated the GBA ports team must've been to make them so faithful but clearly improved. Especially the translation! Wonder what that crew went on to do after these ports.

That interview was really interesting, thanks for linking it. Lol that the Serpent Trench was something they were super proud of back then, of all the graphical upgrades over V the one that was the most impressive to me was stepping into the Phantom Forest for the first time and seeing that different angle and beautiful background. Also oof at some of the work quotes sounding like pretty dodgy crunch.

he was improvising some lyrics to Terras theme: Another buuuggg has been founnndddd

Lol at this though.

I prefer some of the changes they made (killing Terra at the end would've been way too dark, and jeez at the whole sequence of Edgar looking for his brother's corpse), and I like the little tidbits of backstory they give that didn't make it into the game. The Cyan/Sabin/Gau dynamic they mention is great and I wish we'd had more of that in the game. I'm really curious how Terra/Locke/Celes would've turned out before they mixed and matched their characters around like they did, and if done right the dark unhinged Celes could've really worked I think. (I've said it before but her not ever really reflecting on the work she did for the Empire is really weird, especially as they did that so well with Cecil in IV) You can definitely see echoes of the original Celes betrayal plan like in that Magitek Factory scene. Gogo's original recruitment sounds cooler than what we got, too.

Tanaka: In the beginning of the planning, Edgar was the stereotypical sleazeball. But I thought was too cliched, so I removed that aspect of his personality.

Uh, I feel like she could've removed a tiny bit more!

All of this just makes me wonder how great a VI Remake could be if they implemented all the things they took out originally. Could go horribly wrong though, too.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Thanks for that interview link GMUN, I'll read it later. Oops indeed >_>

I haven't decided if I'll bother with the extra dungeon or not, I'll see how I feel tomorrow. I've jotted some thoughts about the writing below, just some stuff I tried to get across about why the game worked for me.

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So looking back I don't think the plot alone is especially amazing in this game, but it's not really trying to be. I love the way the narrative is presented, with the shifting perspectives, multiple scenarios, really cool sci-fi setting etc, but the plot itself is more just a vessel for the characters, who are the real core of the narrative. All the great setpieces and memorable moments are character-driven more than anything (even the world ending imo), and I get the impression the plot was shaped to accommodate character beats rather than the other way around.

On the surface you could equate this game's party with IV's- a large group of slightly subversive archetypes that dip in and out of the game as necessary. But to me this game seems to be operating on a much deeper level, not that IV didn't subvert tropes but the characters here feel much more nuanced and connected to each other. I guess the main thing for me is how focussed the game's themes are. A lot of Final Fantasies have dealt with death and loss, even those of main characters, but VI's sadness goes beyond the usual cries of anguish and feelings of grief to something more... mundane. Most of the cast have a deep sense of loss embedded into their core that they just have to live with, and their arcs come from learning how to cope with it in healthier ways. Despite how silly the game can be it's a much more mature take on loss than I think most fantasy stories have.

Locke, Setzer and Shadow have each lost someone they deeply cared about a long time ago, but it still informs their actions and thoughts throughout the story. Cyan loses his family right as we meet him, and Gau and Relm have never known their parents. This theme of loss goes beyond death- Terra has lost her childhood and much of her life, only waking and realising this at the start of the game; Celes has lost her sense of self and purpose (offhand, I love that Celes is kind of a dark mirror of Terra. They both have similar desires to feel love/acceptance and have lost parts of their life to the Empire, but Terra is pure and innocent in that sense whereas for Celes there's a personal culpability there). Edgar too gave up the potential of a free life himself and has a more blatantly obvious parallel with his brother.

Each character is partially defined by what they have personally lost, and this unspoken understanding they share kind of binds them together as a meaningful group, more so than many other games imo. It's become more clear to me that ending the world was pretty much the only way to naturally progress the story. The resigned acceptance of doom and depression across the world, and the party eventually making the choice to find themselves and stand up against the inevitable (which gets spelled out in plain text around the final confrontation), I just think it's pretty powerful how they do this. By physically splitting everybody up and switching the expected formula up on the player, they draw you in to what they're trying to do, too. The only other game in the series that I feel truly does this- creates a sense of dread, doom, depression and resignation to defeat across the party and the world, and then grows a feeling of community and intimacy that naturally follows from this- is X, which is one of the reasons I love that game so much.

Kefka is the natural foil to this, again the game straight up spells it out in the final confrontation (which I was happy about as it meant the things I was thinking about were things the game wanted me to think!). I get that people love the guy but to me he's much like the plot: a useful tool that exists in the negative to more plainly show the virtues of the heroes. He serves his purpose well but I don't feel such an emotional connection to him, I don't think that's a failing on the game's part but I see others love his character so much and just feel like I'm missing something there. He's a way better version of what they tried to do with Sephiroth though, imo.

Overall I think the writing is very strong in this game, remarkably so for the era it came out in (the characters are much more sophisticated than Chrono Trigger's, imo). The obvious 'flaw' I keep coming to is just that there wasn't enough. I wanted more scenes, more lines, more interaction, just more of each character. But then any good narrative leaves you wanting more, so I guess that's not really a complaint. And working within the constraints of an early '90s game, that we got as much as we did is incredibly impressive. I liked IV, and I liked V a lot, but this is easily the strongest SNES game in terms of writing and music (and beats much of post-SNES FF on that front, too).

Next up I'll do some character rankings with more individual thoughts on each. Out of the party of 14, I'd say I solidly like at least 8 of them, as in actually like not just 'they're fine'. There's nobody I dislike, which is a pretty cool achievement.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

We finally fill in the gaps in Shadow's story (Previously I had been flying to Thamasa's Inn to rest as it's the cheapest, so that's why I haven't gotten these dreams before!)- He was once a bandit named Clyde who couldn't bring himself to euthanise his friend, and is naturally super torn up about it. He moves to Thamasa, meets a lady and Interceptor, and then I can't trigger any more dreams so I guess that goes straight into him leaving his daughter behind and going off again. They really let you fill in the gaps here, it's nice how fragmented it is and obviously this is all torturing him still. Is there really no more closure to this? He just lets himself die at the end as penance/to be with Baram? Poor guy, that seems like kind of a harsh ending. Is his daughter supposed to be Relm? I don't recall any interaction between them (or Strago), but there's only like 5 people in Thamasa so it seems possible.

Anyway, I head to the Soul Shrine to see what's up. Turns out this is kinda like Cloister of the Dead, only worse. It's a very very long series of fights, and I don't have the patience to go through all of it right now. I leave after fighting a new (?) boss, Dark Behemoth, and idk how long this dungeon lasts or if I'm even at the right level or anything for it (mid 50s), and I don't want to waste hours on it for nothing. I grind up the team (Celes, Locke, Sabin, Gogo) a bit with the 'saurs, and I get a bunch of Impartisans so bet them in the Coliseum to see what happens. I end up progressing up from Impartisan to Cat Ear's Hood to Merit Award to Rename Card to Miracle Shoes, which cast Haste, Shell, Protect and Regen at once. Cool! I get 4 of them and an extra to see what that turns into. We wind up going full circle into fighting a Tyrannosaur again and get a Tintinnabulum, a 'walk to restore HP' Relic which really doesn't seem that useful at this stage of the game. Tintin gives us another Growth Egg though, which will be great if I decide to keep grinding.

At this point I'm not sure what to do, I don't feel like doing the Dragon's Den again right now and I don't know if the Soul Shrine will be worth it (or even possible for me at the moment). I'll leave it open to you guys: is it worth doing the Shrine and extra boss? Do you get anything good/fun/interesting out of it? I wouldn't feel bad about leaving things where they are now but if the rest is worth it I'll trust your collective judgment. Also is there anything else I've missed now? I've been gathering my thoughts on the overall narrative+characters and will try to put them together soon.


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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

I haven't been using Terra's morph (if that's what Trance is) or really anyone's special abilities at this point. Except... Strago, I guess.

First up is the Skull Dragon, and after a quick fail (Level 5 Death hits all of my party, oops!) and a brief levelling expedition and re-equipping with anti-zombie gear, Sabin and co take it down pretty solidly... but then it immediately returns and a text box helpfully tells us it won't die if it still has MP. Could've told us that at the start, game! This thing isn't difficult once we know what to do, but it just... takes... so damn long. There's probably a faster way than what I was doing, which was just casting Rasp over and over and over and over. But it eventually works.

Into the Holy Palace, team Celes faces off with the Holy Dragon. This thing's gimmick isn't so bad, it just gets outside help for healing but we can Reflect the Curagas back at us. The main problem is its superior moveset, including Heartless Angel and Saintly Beam (which it can cast several times in a row). We plow through by casting Reraise and hoping for the best, and Celes Dualcasting Ultima for 1MP each doesn't hurt. Got a bit lucky here with the move order.

Finally we find the source of all the Lightning Seals, the Gold Dragon. He absorbs all magic- including our own heals! It's Terra's turn, but even more than Umaro the MVP for this fight is Edgar. The key is his Jumps keep him offscreen for the vast majority of the fight, and therefore he can't get spammed with the annoying spells this thing has. Again we get a bit lucky I think, I forego regular strategy planning and just try to off it before it overwhelms us. We also have some elemental immunity. Whatever works.

With the 8 down we unlock a whole host of areas, and I'll spare you the details but it took me ages to figure things out here. You don't want to know how long it took me to realise you can call the turtle back to the middle from the other side. Whew. Anyway we find a Treasure Room which has a few more minibosses inside- Plague casts Doom on us all but we can still get around it with Reraise and the gang overpowers it easily enough, Naslug is the biggest problem thanks to lack of control over Umaro and its annoying insta-kill counter (Vanish helps somewhat), and the Flan Princesses are thankfully no trouble at all.

After a lot of back and forth, and me getting very very sick of random encounters, we get the three teams in the right spot and unlock Kaiser's Lair. I take Celes here to face our true boss, the Kaiser Dragon. Now this is a boss fight. After a miserable first attempt I load up on Ribbons (we have exactly 4 thanks to the Treasure Room) and try my best. This thing hits hard, and switches its pattern up constantly. I soon realise that playing it defensive at the start is helpful, as it counters any attack. Once everyone has Mighty Guard + Haste + Reraise I try fighting, but it still takes several tries. I can't quite figure out its pattern, but some of its counters are very deadly, particularly the insta-kill Hyperdrive.

I eventually come up with a strategy- to avoid attacking entirely while it cycles through a bunch of barrier changes, then start up once it settles down into a pattern. Ultima does the max 9999 here but we can only cast it once every few turns thanks to all its other attacks. With Ribbons, some elemental immunity and Float some of his attacks miss us entirely, which gives an opening. By the end it's not even worth using Curaga, his attacks either do 0 damage or one-shot no matter how much HP we have, Reraise is far more crucial (and Float). As he goes down he takes a cue from Magic Master and casts Ultima to finish us off, but this time around we have Reraise up and ready to go. We get Diabolos, and access to another dungeon, apparently the final one this time. For all that, Diabolos's attacks don't seem that great. Gravija won't touch any boss, I'm sure.

This dungeon took way longer than I had anticipated, but it was a nice challenge. I can only imagine how hard the last one will be! Next time, Shadow will get some rest.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

13. Beat a WRPG

Mass Effect: Andromeda. A subpar ME game but really not that bad, and I only had to reload checkpoints 3 times total due to glitches.

50. Beat three games in a series

Final Fantasy VI (Advance). Maybe I'm putting this here too early but I'm pretty sure I'll play at least 3 FFs this year!

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

BotW2 easily, even though we have very little knowledge on it this feels like the safest bet of those listed (maybe God of War too but I haven't played the latest entry). I love the first and the sequel began development right afterwards with presumably the same team, I'd be surprised if this wasn't very good.

Every other one on this list has a reason to be wary of it, either through endless delays or just zero knowledge about what kind of game it is.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

I've bookmarked Dancing Mad to listen to at some point, thanks Seabass. It's a shame the last fight is over so quickly, they could've just doubled Kefka's HP for GBA or something!

Onto the postgame, our first goal is to... figure out where the next dungeon is. We were told to go to the Dragon's Horn, so I head to Dragon Neck Coliseum and wander around the pointy bits of land nearby, then try landing on each of the islands. One of them actually works, and we're into Dragons' Den!

It's another 3 party dungeon (yay!), I swap Gau out for Setzer but otherwise keep the parties the same as in Kefka's Tower. This place is pretty sprawling and filled with dozens of different enemies (including many names that I recall from V's Sealed Temple), and slightly more complex switch hitting and puzzle solving than Kefka's Tower. There's no AP gains here which is a little annoying but at least I don't have to continually keep an eye on and swap out Espers between the 12, I just lock everybody into a stat gain that seems good for them. The biggest change from the rest of the game becomes readily apparent when we face off against the Ice Dragon- the game has taken a big step up in difficulty!

The first boss takes me 4 tries to complete with team Celes, the Ice Dragon has replicated itself into 4 and retaliates to any attack on each of its bodies, much like an enemy back in the final dungeon. I soon learn that I should avoid any multi-hit attacks and just focus on one hit at a time, and this is how we get through this one. It's still not easy though, the moment we win everybody is frozen or dead. Still, I'll take it, and we get a new weapon for Setzer for our troubles.

I eventually get into the swing of how to manoeuvre in this place, the teams should be completely split up but I need to remain aware of their relative placements for all the puzzles here. Note: The Vilia enemy is very annoying. We mess around for a while getting one chest in the lava, and then it's Celes again who ends up facing our second boss, the Storm Dragon. This guy is much easier than the first, and we take it down first attempt. I breathe a sigh of relief and hope the first was a one off, but turns out that is not the case. We luckily find a save point and I keep Celes on top of it while the others run around so we can heal+save at a moment's notice.

Good thing, too, because team Sabin runs into the Earth Dragon and gets Quaked right away. Second try I cast Float on everyone before we begin, and the Dragon... casts 50Gs then immediately Magnitude 8s and Quakes us dead. Well that's just cheating. Luckily I have exactly 4 Angel Wings, which are a lifesaver in this fight. He can't ground us anymore but that doesn't stop him trying or following his pattern. Seriously I have no idea how you're supposed to do this without these Relics. It's not over and done just like that though, he heals himself with every Earth attack until I cast Float on him too, and we can't drop our guard because he has some nasty physical hits every now and then. After a while he starts raging and whacking us with several physical hits in one go, often knocking a character out, letting them Reraise, then knocking them down again before finishing his cycle. We barely scrape through just before he takes us down, phew. Seems like every Dragon here gives a weapon reward tailored to a specific character.

Next up team Terra enters a more well-built location and takes a ride on a turtle. She clicks open a door letting a Red Dragon out somewhere, and goes to fight the Blue Dragon. This fight isn't easy but having team Jump here helps a lot. Edgar spends most of his time in the air, we don't even buff him really, Umaro's fancy Berserker Ring means he straight up tosses party members at the Dragon for decent damage (lol), and Terra doesn't get time to attack as she's busy reviving/buffing as necessary. We're halfway through already!

I'm enjoying the difficulty increase here, particularly as each boss fight has its gimmick to figure out and it's not just artificially hard due to increased numbers or something. The next one up tests me, though. Sabin finds his way down to the Red Dragon, and this guy is straight up invincible to everything I try. Physical, Magic, special moves, nothing touches him. After a couple deaths I pay closer attention to the initial text box telling us the Dragon is draining its own life force to increase its strength, so decide to just try to stay alive as long as possible. I gear up the party with Flame Shields and a Red Jacket to nullify and absorb many of its attacks, and spend the entire time buffing and healing. It's a bit of a guessing game but eventually the plan works, and the Red Dragon depletes its own life force enough for us to win. Phew.

We then engage on a long stretch without any boss, picking up a bunch of items and Lores from the enemies here (seriously, there's so many Lores. It's only now I learn you can pick up one max per battle!). Some of the enemies are very annoying, I begin to really notice the encounter rate in the Labyrinth with multiple enemies you can't escape from, and there's a trio of Magic Dragons that love to triple cast Aero upon entry to battle. There's another guy who Spears us to death once so I just run from him in future encounters. Sabin and Celes run around and around, until eventually Sabin finds the Skull Dragon. We're a way off from a save so I don't fight this guy right now, instead heading back to get Celes up onto the save point so there's no danger. We also pick up a Celestriad, which drops all MP cost to 1! Woo! Though I'm gonna have to swap this around between each team lol.

I'll do the rest of this tomorrow, we still have Skull, Gold and Holy to do (I hit a switch which according to a gravestone should have unlocked some door to the Holy Dragon), and I'm not sure if there's more postgame after that. Probably. They're not letting up in this place!

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Thanks for the kind comments everyone, and for helping with the playthrough. I'm not done of course, there's the postgame and I'll probably throw some character rankings around, but I always appreciate the responses to these. As for the game itself, I've been wanting to play this one for a long time and was worried it wouldn't live up to expectations, but in general it holds up remarkably well. I'm surprised how fresh a lot of the design feels to this day, and the Balance/Ruin split was so gutsy and pretty much paid off. I have a couple of minor quibbles here and there but generally the only criticism I have is that I wanted more of it- more character interactions, deeper side stories for them in World of Ruin, more for each character to do etc.

The battle gameplay is probably the least impressive part of it objectively, but weirdly I had a ton of fun in the battles anyway. V's job system is definitely more interesting and the overall difficulty of this game is on the easier side (I may regret saying this when it comes to postgame!) but idk, I never got bored or annoyed (Cultist's Tower notwithstanding!) and just enjoyed moving from one place to the next. Most annoying thing was probably the moving NPCs blocking the path forward a lot.

Even the graphics have mostly held up well (couple of exceptions with the Mode 7 stuff not always working), and as said repeatedly the OST is phenomenal. I liked IV's and especially V's OST, but this one goes to so many places and has a bunch of throughlines within the music and impressive setpiece moments that it has to go on top of them.

I'll talk properly about my thoughts on the plot and characters once I've done the postgame but I'm really satisfied with how things turned out.

Thanks for the image GK, it still looks good!
Fiop posted...

I agree the final dungeon really is great and I do like how it forces you to use most of your characters. Relm is actually really good if you teach her magic, though if you havent been teaching her spells, shes better to leave behind. As for Setzer, theres actually a really interesting weapon he gets in the final dungeon called Fixed Dice, which gives him something unique.

Yeah I left Relm behind because she was my lowest levelled mage and had the fewest spells, and I was already set with a mage for each team. Setzer was at a lower level and I'm not fond of the Slot gimmick, so he was left too. Looking back the least useful members of the final dungeon for me were probably Gau and Mog. I'll try out Fixed Dice in the next dungeon!

As for Shadow, somebody mentioned sleeping with him in the party much earlier but I didn't see his dreams (except the one at Thamasa when we get him back in World of Ruin). Can I still get them now? I'll sleep a bunch at the Thamasa Inn if that helps, otherwise I'll just look them up online. I saw that he wasn't on the airship but it just seemed sad for him to give up on life right after we all proved to Kefka how life was worth living.

I did wonder about how the ending plays out without everyone around, especially Terra. I guess it makes sense that she's there anyway, though I thought maybe she fades away if you hadn't gotten her to realise what love meant for her. V had downer endings if the party all died but I guess this game had enough depressing moments already.


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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

81 now after 23 reviews. I've been curious about this, I liked The Messenger a lot so hopefully it plays kinda like that, never played the NES Ninja Gaidens though.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Now that the preamble is out of the way, it is time to face the Clown himself. Everybody approaches him together (the 12 v 1 is a nice shot), and Kefka lets out his nihilistic views properly for the first time while destroying some more of the world. The gang is no longer fazed though, and we get a really nice moment of each of the crew recognising their reason for living and fighting. Despite what Kefka says I don't care how cheesy this bit is, it's really heartwarming, especially for the characters that don't usually open up like this (Celes, Shadow). Terra remembers she's the main character for this final hour, and it does her a world of favours. It's time to set a final team order.

This set of 12 is, again, intimidating, as we haven't had anything like this yet. Not sure what's coming, I place my mains on first (Celes, Sabin, Locke, Terra) and off we go. This sequence of bosses is visually astounding, three tiers of some eldritch abomination that still looks beautiful and carved by an artist, like the Triad before. The use of colour and the notable absence of it in many places only makes the whole thing look more affecting, and beating the first layer only to see the camera pan up slowly, it's just done so well.

Honestly this sequence is a bit of a blur for me- I can't remember exactly how it went, I was so full of adrenaline and ready to take Kefka down. I know it wasn't a walk in the park though, my guys fell down on numerous occasions. Thankfully the buffs stick between layers, but between death, petrification (I didn't have my main team set up with Ribbons) and the like, there was a lot of casting to do. At some points I got too caught up in buffing that I forgot to attack, and given how powered my characters are the best defence here is a good offence.

The second tier is harder than the first, more status effects are used and Locke falls down and out here :( The third introduces self-healing, but thankfully the healing head statue thing has a low HP limit. Unfortunately the third one has a super cheap finishing move (or I got unlucky) where it kills two of my characters outright then immediately fades away, removing them from the party. Sabin had Reraise so he stays, but Celes sadly fades away for the final fight. I'd like to see a piece of art of the full set of this creature in one shot.

Finally we ascend to the golden heavens and face our Chaos God himself, Kefka. Again, this looks great. He gives another brief speech and we're off- the team here is Gogo, Sabin, Edgar, and Terra. Unfortunately this is a bit of an anti-climactic boss, his HP must be pretty low because it only lasts a couple of minutes. Edgar gets lucky with a 4x Jump spree, and Sabin Phantom Rushes his way to victory before long. Not that I don't have to work to keep people healed and upright, it just ends way sooner than I thought it would. The song seemed good but it jumped between phases pretty fast so I didn't get a proper feel for it. At one point an eerie message warning us the end is nigh appears, and I think he's gearing up for an attack but no it's just the end of the boss fight! At first I think he's tricking us with an elaborate fake death animation (Like Soul Master in Hollow Knight) but it then becomes clear that the game is just really making sure we're aware of the gravity of what we've just done here.

All in all, the final dungeon was really really fun. Not the hardest in the series by a long shot, or the most complicated, but really effective at getting me into gear and excited for the ending. Even if Kefka himself is a little too easy!

It is then time for an ingenious take on the end credits, which take place during our escape, giving each character their own moment (and last name! Is this the first time in the series the last names are actually in-game?). The medley here is gorgeous, showing off how absolutely amazing the OST has been. Everybody gets their moment to shine and prove their worth (except Mog who needs help himself >_>), even Umaro and Gogo (who didn't give a reason for living earlier). Locke and Celes share a screen, effectively confirming their future relationship I guess, and Shadow bizarrely decides to stop running and... stays there? Not sure what to make of this, nobody addresses it. Hope he's ok, he mentioned finally finding friends now so it's weird if he's off on his own again.

Maduin appears to Terra and says her human side could allow her to continue to exist if she has a strong enough tie to this world (a fair way of giving her an out, tbh). Her tie is, of course, Katarin and the kids, and with a very sweet moment she tells Katarin, Celes and herself not to give up just yet, and is saved by Setzer. She's really shot up in my estimations in this final dungeon, where has this Terra been?!

Katarin gives birth, the Thamasans rebuild, Edgar ruins Celes' moment, and a plant begins to sprout. I gotta say, there's a lot of 'the world starting to rebuild' endings in fiction, but this game has damn well earned it better than most. Terra lets her hair down, and the gang rides off into the distance. The End.

Really, really enjoyed this ending. I'll talk more about it tomorrow and get going with postgame then, but it's late. Haven't even proofread this update properly, hope it makes sense! I'm really glad with how things turned out!

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Thanks Fiop, I got Mighty Guard and decided to give things a go as is. And thanks for all the other advice everyone, but I'd already started Kefka's Tower before I read the other posts >_> After a lot of mixing around and equipping everyone before we set off, I decide on our (hopefully balanced) teams:

Team 1: Celes, Shadow, Cyan, Gogo. Celes has Dualcast and a Gold Hairpin, Shadow has 8x attack, Gogo has Mimic, Magic, Steal and Lore.
Team 2: Terra, Edgar, Mog, Umaro. Terra has a Gold Hairpin, Edgar and Mog both have Jump and Edgar has the Relic that lets Jump repeat, Umaro is Umaro. No Molulu Charm.
Team 3: Sabin, Locke, Strago, Gau. Sabin and Locke are my top physical attackers and I bring Strago so each team has a powerful mage on side.

Celes and the gang wonder what removing the Triad means for the world- could magic disappear? The Espers? Terra? We shall see. Into Kefka's Tower we go. This is, thankfully, a really really good dungeon. I'm on board the second I see we're gonna be split into three teams, much like in Phoenix Cave I love that the game encourages you to use everybody (pretty much, sorry Relm and Setzer). The layout initially appears to be Floating Continent-y, but as we travel around we see the place is mixed in with Vector itself, very cool. The enemies look intimidating, right from the off there's Greater Malboros and Behemoths in the same enemy party, and several varieties of Dragon. (Strago does learn Bad Breath at least). As it turns out this place is also stacked with minibosses. Honestly it's a pretty great grinding spot in itself, but we're doing alright so no need to hang around.

There's not really many puzzles here, the latter two teams have to step on a switch here and there to let Celes's team through, but the vibe here is just so cool. I have a great time traversing this place, it's not too hard but not a cakewalk, and there's plenty of treasure to find. I guess technically you could do this with just Celes, Edgar and Setzer, lol.

Our first boss comes in the jail cell Kefka was once in: Ultima Buster. The true form of Ultima Weapon? Something like that. Not too bad, except a nasty flash leading to Ultima at one point. Thankfully it's the Jump team taking him on so Edgar and Mog manage to avoid it, and Terra actually tanks it outright (barely). The Buster soon goes down and we get a save point.

The enemies vary quite a lot as we go through what was once Vector, the mechanical enemies are harder. Precisely one time we come across the Movers from V! But they're no longer special, not giving absurd amounts of AP :( Our next miniboss is Gold Dragon, a Thunder-based dragon we fight with Team Terra. We brush it aside very easily, but Sabin faces a slightly tougher challenge with Inferno. Despite it using Thunder attacks itself it seems to be weak to them? Weird. Once we get rid of the hands it's not so bad. Honestly we're plowing through at a pretty decent pace here.

Skull Dragon is the last of the 8, and he is not ready for the deluge of Holy attacks we have going. Sabin has a holy weapon on one of his hands, Strago can cast Holy and Gau learned the Rage for Holy Dragon a while ago, so we are set. 8/8 down, a mysterious voice tell us something is waiting at the Dragon's Horn. Guess this is a map thing, like the Coliseum being Dragon's Neck. Something to remember! We are rewarded with Crusader Magicite, and the Meltdown ability. The description says Meltdown hits allies too, so not sure how this is better than Ultima!

The three teams eventually wind up on the same screen, and after some moving around it's Sabin's team that ends up moving ahead somehow. We wind up stealing another Air Anchor from Gamma (lol I broke my vow for nothing), and this area has the first time I notice the animation of Interceptor blocking for Shadow. Adorable. Sabin and crew run face first into the Guardian. Oh hell yeah, time for a rematch with this guy. He's not half as intimidating as he used to be but I keep my guard up anyway (literally). After he goes down we save and run ahead, once again headfirst into a boss without realising. It's Warring Triad time!

Team Sabin fights Demon, who has some very fancy annoying spells such as Flare Star, Southern Cross, and Tyrfing. We're powered enough that we can get through here, but it is alarming how much damage he can deal. Thankfully a couple of my guys have Element-blocking armour/shields. Locke steals a Red Jacket and he drops a very convenient Radiant Lance. I then realise I messed up and have to fall down and go back to let the other teams through.

Team Terra fights Goddess, who absorbs Edgar's Holy Lance before I swap it to the fancy new one, and charms our Yeti friend into attacking himself. We surround her, which is pretty handy. We can't use party-wide spells but she has to focus on one side at a time too, basically Terra and Mog are healing while Edgar continually piles on his Jumps to do ridiculous damage. She eventually goes down and gives Excalibur.

Last up is Team Celes with Fiend. Little note here: I really like the designs of these Triad folks, they give off Renaissance Painting vibes in a way. I also like this boss music, we've heard it before but I forget where. Has a bit that sounds like World Revolution from Chrono. Anyway Fiend himself is super easy, Celes+Gogo have their 4x Ultima for the price of one ready to go and Shadow has his x8 attacks. We have to burn up our Frozen friends a couple of times but he goes down way faster than the others. I like that the triad are element based. For our troubles Cyan gets a fancy Mutsunokami.


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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

My main group are around Level 50, most of the others are low 40s and a handful are 37 or so.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

I went back on my word and just got it from the chest >_>

I'm ready to head to Kefka's and aw **** it's three parties! That's very cool but means I have to go back and train people up first! Dang. Gotta figure out which 2 to leave behind too, also are there any Rages/Lores that are super useful before I go?

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!

Ah yeah it's the snow one, thanks. Somebody told me to get the underwater one previously.

Grand Kirby posted...

Speaking of which, have you taken a good look at the above-ground Serpent Trench in the ruined world? You can see clearly now how it's shaped like a snake, complete with a mouth. Kind of neat.

I like this kinda stuff, these SNES games did a bunch of cool stuff with their world maps. Still gonna be tough to beat V's maps perfectly overlaying on each other though.

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Slowly becoming a Final Fantasy aficionado. Currently playing: FFVI
Congrats to azuarc, Guru Champion 2020!