Lurker > HeroDelTiempo17

TheRock1525 posted...

But... they are. Maybe not as much as the most progressive ideas but they're certainly doing more expand health coverage and social safety nets than the GOP. They aren't stripping back departments like education or HUD.

I know we are just rehashing the argument at some point but Dems just don't convince people they're helping, and voters either don't care about the details of the plans or don't believe them. Trump is at least selling something, and people are buying it.

Dems need more used car salesmen in their party since apparently people love that shit

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reminder that "All Cops Are Bastards" is too extreme of a statement

Maybe "Decapitate Cops" will play better

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Guys, when corrik is about to break out the dictionary, it's time to drop it

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Lightning Strikes posted...

An issue with defund the police from the left perspective is that frankly, it promotes austerity economics. The important thing is funding community services much better, and having police funding at an appropriate level. That is not communicated at all by the defund the police slogan nor is it emphasised by the movement. You shouldnt need to defund anything to fund anything else, you should raise the money by progressive taxation.

This is a strange argument to me. Would you say this about the military budget or spending on benefits to corporations? Sometimes there are good reasons for budget cuts without having to raise the austerity boogeyman. This is one of them: policing can get by with less tools for violence in the budget. Not only in equipment but in public funding for lawsuits, etc.

Wanglicious posted...

When asked whether they want the police to spend more time, the same amount of time or less time than they currently do in their area, most Black Americans -- 61% -- want the police presence to remain the same. This is similar to the 67% of all U.S. adults preferring the status quo, including 71% of White Americans.

more vs. less was a 1% difference in favor of more but that's a wash. that said, it's at the same time that BLM remained popular within the black community. ultimately people just want better cops.

Yeah so I'm not going to dispute this but I will say that Black Americans have a stronger opinion on the systemic issues with the police alongside this. Still reformist, but it paints a need for bigger reforms that aren't easily characterized by just a 1% difference in opinion on this specific question. And as stated above, genuinely good reforms can come from reducing the budget.

So let me wrap back around to my original point here. "Defund the police" and "Medicare for All" and while I'm at it even "Green New Deal" are all slogans with issues. THE PROBLEM WITH DEMOCRATS is that they are so scared of the reception of these slogans that they run away from the actual ideas within them, many of which ARE popular, instead of actually engaging with them. And I encourage others to not make that same mistake.

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<a onclick="return show_quoted_message(8, 79088297, 946779258, '30775d90');" href="/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/79088297/946779258">TheRock1525 posted... </a>

So how do you win them back by moving more left?

Well my theory is they're voting for self-interest, so you offer people social programs or other benefits that dramatically improve their life. And actually run on it instead of worrying you'll be perceived as a socialist. It clearly isn't enough to just explain that the Republican party doesn't care about your self-interest, if you don't have a more compelling alternative.

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Inviso posted...

Biden was the nominee because the black vote favored him! You can argue about Kamala having a negative impact, but the black vote favored Hillary AND Biden in the primaries.

Primaries aren't the general.

Aside from the suburban white voters the Dems have specifically been targeting since 2016, the total electorate seems to have drifted conservative

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TheRock1525 posted...

It's really hard to tell what the American people want. Trump promised more police and called BLM terrorists, and he got a larger portion of black voters than 2016.

Right because people are conservatives but self-interested and will also vote for things they think will benefit them personally, like "tax cuts" and "the economy." It actually isn't too hard to understand.

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masterplum posted...

Defund the police is a stupid tag line.

what is with democrats and getting destroyed by republicans in naming wars. How the hell is prochoice ever going to beat pro life.

Democrats didn't even name this! Activists did, rando liberals took it over, and actual elected officials want nothing to do with it.

I will actually concede that it's a bad thing to run on as a slogan (even though I think the actual philosophy of moving money from police/military to people SHOULD be something you can sell people on) but the fact that dems are so afraid of just the name despite none of them supporting it is what doesn't make sense. They are so scared of being compared to these policies that they water down their platform and then have to deal with it anyways.

See also Joe Biden's fracking ban (he doesn't have one)

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TheRock1525 posted...

Biden ran on none of these and he's about to move Georgia 5 points to the left from 2016.

First of all I'd attribute this more to Abrams than anything Biden himself did

But you're confident the runoffs are in the bag, then?

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Lmao

https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1324456569778675712?s=19

definitionofinsanity.txt

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Delete the Senate

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xp1337 posted...

Eliminate Filibuster
COVID relief
HR1/John Lewis Voting Rights Act
DC/PR Statehood
Repeal Apportionment Act of 1929
Court reform

Healthcare before any of the reforms for public opinion reasons and also because the three things after COVID are easy to do while you wait for the SC to yell at you about healthcare, at which point you have justification to fight the court

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Xeybozn posted...

If it had been a Republican president who passed the ACA, they'd be considered a hero for saving American health care without turning America into a socialist dictatorship. America just really hates the Democrats.

To be fair, they make it so easy!

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fuming posted...

https://www.carlbeijer.com/p/bernie-would-have-already-won

Pretty good argument for why the problem is democrats reaching out to right wingers when they should be going left.

They should be going left but I'm also not convinced that automatically gets them more votes. They need to get way way better at their sales pitch and also actually do shit to help people. Not just the presidential candidate but the entire party has to do this.

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KamikazePotato posted...

This may be me projecting, but I feel like the Democratic camp - including Biden - got significantly more pissed off as the 2020 election drew closer. They seem really tired of the GOP's nonsense, and the election being close isn't going to make them feel like facism has been rejected by the country. If that doesn't light a fire under their asses, nothing will.

Even if this is true - that fire has to stay lit for two years, and be stronger than the other side

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Ashethan posted...

This is why we have to work SUPER HARD to get out the vote in 2022. We can't be politically apathetic ever again.

We have record high turnout numbers this election and Rs are sweeping Senate seats. We now have confirmation that it is not as simple as just getting out the vote and winning with numbers. Democrats need to reconfigure their entire electoral strategy. I won't believe the 2022 Senate race will be competitive at all unless that happens.

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Any half-decent whip in a safe R seat could do what McConnell does. What makes him so powerful is that he simply understands how the Senate works and acts accordingly. Namely:

- The Senate is allegedly a second legislative chamber, but in practice primarily serves to obstruct legislation
- As it stands, the structure of the Senate guarantees a built-in conservative advantage, which also insulates them from electoral consequences
- confirm judge, eat hot chip, and lie

This basically frees Mitch to do whatever the fuck he wants, so he acts accordingly while doing the bare minimum legislatively to ensure his status as majority leader (which, as it turns out, is literally nothing!). This is why getting rid of Mitch won't change much - it'll throw them off in the short term but the actual problem is the Senate. Mitch is unique in that he's personally very ambitious and was the first to crack the code, but the party will just copy his homework with another safe R stooge.

Removing the filibuster would be step one here if Dems could actually win seats, but really the whole thing is rotten.

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Dancedreamer posted...

Meanwhile over on Earth 2 Marco Rubio is preparing to give his concession speech. He spent much of the election attacking Hillary over COVID Deaths hitting near 150k. But most people agree that Hillary handled the virus very well. Not helping his case either was the fact that he didn't exactly disagree with her actions and never had any answers for what he would've done better. Mail-in voting is expected to finish counting sometime next week, but all projections give Hillary the win.

And on Earth 3 Ayanna Pressley has just won the election in another landslide for Democrats after serving 8 years as Bernie Sanders VP. The popularity of USMP (United States Medicare Plan) on Earth 3 has made the US #1 in healthcare world wide since 4 years after its implementation during Jesse Jackson's first term in 1988. Republicans desire to cut funding from USMP during the COVID crisis, which sadly took the lives of nearly 90k people, cost them huge in the election as Pressley becomes the first female President and earned a whopping 451 Electoral Votes. Their election has been over for days, as Mail-In Voting has been popular since at least 2002. (Of course on Earth 3, the popular vote decides the election, but the Electoral Vote comes into play if the popular vote is within 2%)

and on Earth 4, a deadly psychic squid attack has just occurred in New York in the absence of Dr. Manhattan, leaving millions dead but narrowly avoiding the start of a thermonuclear war

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

another takeaway is that i probably underrated hillary.

i always figured she lost to trump because she was an absolutely bottom of the barrel dem candidate, but if biden is struggling this much to beat trump during covid, maybe her performance wasn't that unimpressive.

We also had unprecedented turnout on both sides

It's really fucking weird

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KamikazePotato posted...

I will also second the opinion that the result of this election is absurd no matter which Dem candidate we got or even if/when Biden wins. A literal fungus should have easily beaten Trump after the COVID response. The problem isn't the Democratic establishment (although they are garbage). It's the American people.

The problem is both the deep systemic issues with America and that the leaders go along with it instead of actively finding ways to fight against it. You actually need some Rainbow Coalition type shit to happen or you get whatever the fuck this election is.

(and no I don't think Bernie is whatever the effective version of that is. he's good but not the final form)

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There's more conservative Latinos in Texas compared to other areas of the country. Maybe not on the same level as Florida but comparable. It's a very diverse group.

Please do not think of them all as "Mexicans" or something, a lot of people are native Texans and Americans first. Especially down near the border where Biden got blown out, they can get pretty conservative. I knew someone whose family was from around there and they hated Mexicans. It's not the same.

Of course there's a lot going on here with trends especially because of rural areas but like...no way am I convinced Bernie wins big here if you're trying to extrapolate a subgroup of Democrat primary voters to all of Texas

I do think his outreach would have been better (read: more than nonexistent) so there's a chance but eh.

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Yeah no, Bernie doesn't win Texas unless he drops everything and goes on a Beto-style road trip through rural Texas

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LordoftheMorons posted...

AZ Dem Rep:

https://twitter.com/RubenGallego/status/1324071039085670401

I've seen a lot of Latinos say that they dislike the term "Latinx" and polls that back it up. I doubt it's actually a big factor in yesterday's results, but still good to keep in mind (and them not liking it is a good enough reason not to use it regardless).

I mean this is kind of a silly take when it literally boils down to talking to and working with people as the man says and not relying on polls and online discourse for assumptions

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wang are you gonna pick a side in the Civil War or just smugly explain why both sides are bad as they try to kill you

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You guys can't disagree with Ulti, thats censoring him

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UshiromiyaEva posted...

Wierd feel of having more anxiety now that Biden is looking like the favorite than I was when people were losing their minds last night that it was over.

I guess I just new those results were gonna flip and nothing last night mattered, and now we're in the actual real election mode.

For me it's the feeling of hopelessness since it seems very unlikely both Biden wins and the Senate flips. Hollow victory.

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Look at all this useless fucking money

https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1323439569866493953?s=19

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KanzarisKelshen posted...

https://twitter.com/liamwbz/status/1324007227582259200?s=21

Tweet is deleted now but I just saw this Vice article about it

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/5dppad/why-the-post-offices-last-minute-ballot-crisis-isnt-as-dire-as-it-seems?__twitter_impression=true

Tldr might not actually be an issue because USPS likely started manually sending out ballots without reporting it to go faster. There are some other logistical concerns but the amount of undelivered ballots isn't to be taken at face value

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Jakyl25 posted...

Yet his minority vote was up across all racial demos except he lost ground with whites

These are actually the conservatives the Democrats have to win back tbqh, not the upper class Republicans

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Btw, here's the thing:

it's all marketing.

If we had no politicians and just agendas the left's policies would win overwhelmingly.

sure but how do you get there within the reality that we only have the Democratic party as a vehicle for those ideas and half the country hates those guys and will continue to do so no matter who is running it

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States have a lot more power on forcing electors to vote for their stated candidate, thanks to the Supreme Court, so there should be a significantly lower chance of faithless electors than in 2016 but still a real chance because the rules will vary by state.

It will cause chaos though and I dont see the courts doing anything about it

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RaidenGarai posted...

Any idea what's going on there? That's really interesting that things would fall that way.

It means some of the Dems' policies are more popular than they are. And enough people don't vote for party based on policy.

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Jakyl25 posted...

Let me introduce you to a man named Andrew Yang

oh hell no

an entire party of yangs may technically be an improvement but the specific combo of crumbs of progressive policy in exchange for turning the neoliberalism dial to 11 makes me even more upset

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what exactly is this unclaimed political territory of "moderate-leftism" between progressivism and the current centrism of the democratic party

please enlighten me

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KamikazePotato posted...

I think the ignorance excuse went out the window a long time ago. Not accepting that anymore.

I view the "fuck you I got mine" mentality as a kind of willful ignorance. You can kind of reason with that. The rest is malice.

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CaptainOfCrush posted...

It's such a difficult balancing act imo. I honestly believe that some socialist policies are quite popular in and of themselves - we already have socialized medicine for those aged 65+. Am I REALLY supposed to believe that people in Alabama would consider it an affront to their sensibilities if someone argued the Medicare age should be lowered to 60+?

The problem is that the perceived posterchildren of those policies - big city liberals, effeminate men, feminists, gays, and poor blacks - are personally reviled by Republicans. You gotta separate the message from those traditional "messengers". Well I mean, you really shouldn't since that's disgusting and makes me feel bad, but you definitely have to if you want to court Republican voters with progressive policies.

Yeah I don't think the Democratic Party is in a position to do any of this. Reactionary conservatism is deeply ingrained in this country. The Dems can barely manage their current big tent including the Never Trumpers and it's still struggling. Turnout increased to match it. They should certainly try to honestly win over conservatives with progressive policy but I feel like the well has been thoroughly poisoned.

I guess what I'm saying is that what Dems need is a literal socialist movement to happen and there's no way they can do that themselves so they need it to come from outside both parties

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TheRock1525 posted...

So Biden saying he would work with Republicans, if he's elected he's gonna have to work with Republicans.

Nothing will get done so I hope he likes executive orders

And I hope the 6-3 court likes those orders

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I can't believe we also have to deal with yet another wave of the "I don't understand polling error and probability so Nate Silver specifically is a liar" takes as the country crumbles

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Nah man, I dont despise anyone. Theres only one person on this board I feel like I have an actual grudge about, and its entirely because they put me on ignore over some goofy shit.

Anyway, back to stressing about the election:



What does a Democratic Party that loses its minority base look like??

you know the answer

neoliberal but unironically

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yeah did anyone besides lotm vote biden in the primary? speak now so tony can have someone specific to direct his anger to.

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KamikazePotato posted...

Hispanics breaking hard for the guy who absolutely hates them is wild.

He doesn't hate them if they're "one of the good ones" (aka conservative)

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/lautarogrinspan/status/1323755675881742340

I unironically think that voters just being tired of shit being about Trump all the fucking time could be an underrated force in this election

after years of ridicule from the left, will we be saved by the brunch vote?

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ExThaNemesis posted...

In Kanye we trust

Don't tell me you actually enjoyed Jesus Is King.

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https://youtu.be/l9fN-8NjrvI

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pyresword posted...

Since people were trying to use my story as a case of voter suppression earlier I will say that the process on election day was very easy and safe. Was in and out within 15 minutes. Obviously ideally the early in-person voting would have been better equipped to handle the pandemic but I really don't think claims of (intentional and malicious) voter suppression are justified in my case.

(Yes, nobody said "intentional and malicious" but that is obviously the implication.)

The thing is that voter suppression is anything that suppresses votes and it's often hard to distinguish between intentional, incompetent, and accidental. You can think of it as a spectrum, but it all has the same effect. It's better to just call it out for what it is regardless.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

https://twitter.com/keitholbermann/status/1323627281215008772?s=21

what is Keith trying to say here

I...think he might be trying to use Kunta as a euphemism for the "c-word" (idk if this one's allowed on gamefaqs).

Tfw you try to hide a sexist insult and end up being nebulously racist instead

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Amazing, the TX GOP platform literally contradicts one of its stated positions with the very next sentence

https://twitter.com/ne0liberal/status/1323430378825199616?s=21

Sad thing is this isn't a contradiction from the conservative mindset. The GOP wants to unregulate all the censorship by big tech!

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i don't read nate silver's twitter that often

this is a good choice

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1323359333003022336

...wasn't he saying the election was totally in the bag for biden a few days ago? >_>

It's 50/50 given that Trump wins those three states specifically, which is a subset of his 10% overall chance to win. Nate is just being a dork as usual

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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1323377677974294530?s=19

trump having a normal one

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