Lurker > HeroDelTiempo17

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I dont GET whats there to GET about silvagunner. Isnt it just song mashups? Is there a talking or meme element somewhere?

No there's a big meme element. It started as the audio equivalent of shitposting. Except as they added more running gags it eventually became periodically interspersed with "lore." It was fun to follow for a while but a huge time sink for very little reward

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Holy shit

I have not read since uhhh Lupe/two Annies but this is extremely cool

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

The only way to expose agents of the Deep State is to intentionally allow them access to some of the most powerful positions in government and observe what they do

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/race-relations-position-of-minorities-better-under-trump-than-obama

Preposterously disingenuous framing considering Ferguson happened in 2014...

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

wasnt the entire point of the Joe Rogan discourse that you dont have to cape so hard for losers when you just want their vote

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

So are there any Dems who don't want to abolish the Electoral College? I think this is probably my most important issue- getting rid of the source of our success is not negotiable.

I think it's just Joe Biden and Bloomberg who don't want to touch it

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

bottom text

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Jakyl25 posted...

None of them are 25 yet so who cares since they wont vote

Well they've at least been better about organizing so there's that.

And yeah the whole Gen Z being more conservative isnt well-supported as far as I can tell. What probably helps contribute is that as mentioned, Gen Z is less likely to trust the major political parties. Also (and unfortunately I can't find the data for this), young white males still have a fairly conservative skew. Gen Z is the most diverse generation but that obviously is going to affect results. But on the whole they're politically similar to millennials.

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2019/01/17/generation-z-looks-a-lot-like-millennials-on-key-social-and-political-issues/

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Well, Bush never did this! (I saw the actual tweet before he deleted it so I can confirm its real):

https://mobile.twitter.com/jimswiftdc/status/1221107889764536326

I think Bush might have done something worse

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

If we're gonna just keep posting obvious twitter bait let's just skip to the end with the biggest bait I've ever seen



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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1221440402865127426?s=19

the yang gang has risen up

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

you joke but during outreach I legit saw someone say they liked Bernie but wouldn't go to that event and possibly not support him because AOC and Moore were there

true that moore sux tho

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yeah the movie is basically a plotless period piece that relies on your appreciation for that. My fiance was pretty into it but I thought it was only okay with some memorable bits sprinkled in. Probably at the bottom of my rankings of the ones I've seen. It's a toss up between that and H8 but I gave no desire to watch either again.

In other words

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Does it require a boner for the Golden Age of Hollywood

Yes

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

You'll note Trump's strategy of always talking about policy even when you think he's really talking about identity (build the wall, lock her up, send her back are all concrete policies that evoke a feeling of identity).

Literally gave a speech to the UN extolling the ideological merits of nationalism but go off

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

It'll be pretty funny if after all the concern about Warren leeching votes it ends up being the army of billionaires and moderates running vanity campaigns handing Bernie a win

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/gregjkrieg/status/1220801752330579968?s=21



I imagine the story will fade by the time Bernie is able to get back to campaigning, but I hope the message is understood that accepting others onto your side is not the same as meeting them in the middle.

Glad they're acknowledging it but I hope they keep that same energy when Bernie is in charge and the time comes to actually have to compromise with everyone.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Kinglicious posted...

Ultimately I'm basing that off a growing internet community - that for the record is actively marginalized and attacked by other trans communities, which is fucked up

What internet community is this?

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I say we get Bernie back on to discuss trans rights tbh

I don't know if you're being serious but this would actually be a great thing for him to do

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I disagree. I think what he recognizes is that the intersectionality as a campaign point is hollow. He is appealing to rural America while at the same time lifting up other minorities. His health care plan would be incredible for the trans community, for example.

Ok, do you not see how the pivot to electoral politics and policy is frustrating? This is what I'm talking about: a difference in ideology and rhetoric that drives people away from Bernie. But not more people than he'd get from going on Joe Rogan. Comparatively fewer people are mad about it, but Bernie should do a better job of leading.

Since you want to talk policy I can give you the perfect example of what I mean that also reflects well on him! Towards the start of his campaign cycle, he was repeatedly dismissive towards reparations for slavery. This made news cycles of course and raised some fuss. Other candidates started to come out in favor. And as a result he changed his opinion and now co-sponsors HR 40! This is good! And it's how politics should work, you give a politician shit, they respond, and whether you got a good or bad response you continue to give them shit.

He doesn't focus on that aspect because he is speaking to the core issue - class. We have been segmented and diced for decades by corporations but the fact is until we fix class issues no other issue is actually getting fixed.

True to an extent but the disagreement is on timing.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

No one is perfect. We as humans are flawed. But Bernie is asked to do the impossible. Broaden his base and also apologize for them at all times. Class is the winning AND correct issue. Morally.

Class is important but it's about intersectionality with that, and it seems obvious to me that Bernie is not very good at reconciling the two even though he tries.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

How quickly things become about "winning" when challenged.

For the record, I plan on voting for Bernie and I started doing some light volunteer work for him this week because I'd like to see him win Iowa and the primary.

But he's not perfect.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Though since you specifically mentioned "appeasement" yeah I would consider stuff like this and going on Fox News appeasement. It's rhetorical but it's still appeasement. You need to do some of that in politics and it's fine, but you can be smart about it.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I mean this, if you can show me where Bernie changed his message to appeal to Rogan, Ill have to concede my entire position.

He didnt change his message, yeah. But I'm criticizing the one he has! Bernie has a history of being tone-deaf on how marginalized groups see him because he's so focused on class issues. This is him continuing to not quite understand or care about the qualms people have with him. He's a politician and he could stand to do better. That's all.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

Because Bernie doesn't have a long history of troubling associations with the center. Bernie hasn't given speeches to Wall Street banks for 250k a speech. Bernie hasn't been paid 300k by an Ivy League university to teach one course. Bernie has walked the walk for decades.

Sure, but this is an ideological issue, not just a political one, and I'm told that Bernie has the purest ideology and that's what makes him different from a normal politician.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Its arguable that outreach to moderates tanked Warren, but if moderates want to come over on their own, theyre more than welcome.

You realize that Bernie going on the podcast and then promoting the endorsement is very far from "on their own," right? And there's a difference between reaching out to those voters and signal boosting their support. I'm fine with the former but the latter is pretty-tone deaf. I understand that coalition building is messy but it's an absolutely valid criticism that Bernie could be a lot smarter with how he goes about it.

Plus I have to agree with LotM - the most frustrating aspect is how online Bernie stans LOVE dragging other candidates for their problematic associations and appeals to the center, but when Bernie does it there's suddenly a ton of sage nodding about how actually this is smart politics and anyways all the candidates want on Rogan so it's fine.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

LordoftheMorons posted...

Jesus

Also if hes talking to Parnas, take her out cant really sensibly mean fire her as Parnas has no ability to do that.

I cant discount this but I dont think Parnas has the ability to order a hit either so it seems like a long shot tbqh.

Importantly this takes place a year before the 2019 events though so it establishes a long period of direct association.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Wanglicious posted...

i don't see this being what that data says at all.
to me that data is just another poll indicating how firm the base is for the Democrats. i'd want a candidate that doesn't have ridiculously high numbers on this because that'd be one of the clearest signs that they can draw support from outside of the base. how many republicans or independents can warren or pete pull? not many. biden can't either but i give him more credit than either of those. bernie? a decent amount. yang? his base largely isn't democrats, he polls VERY well outside the party which makes him someone to look out for in NH - their primary isn't limited to just democrats. this is quite healthy as it means you're getting a diverse palette of individuals involved with the party. i don't like or want a voterbase that's strictly "I MUST VOTE WITH THE PARTY," that is bad for democracy. this isn't. the cringe numbers are the "vote blue no matter who (unless it's the guys i don't like)" types, not the ones involved in the process in a wider base. convince them that those people should vote for you! like a democracy should do!

This is a great argument but it's undermined by the Republican Party actively seeking to harm democracy as an electoral strategy. Also, Democrats HAVE historically tried to argue for votes outside their party - by fighting over the center, and by trying to form a diverse coalition. It's led to where we are now.

The facts are just that the Democratic Party is the only electorally viable alternative to the Republicans right now. Bernie and Yang both understand this and know the stakes, and that's why they're running as democrats. But a lot of people haven't and that's where Para's argument comes in.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I mean some people think the second article shouldn't have been filed and the House should have waited for the subpoenas to work all the way through court so that excuse will probably work on them.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

like have you seen him talk about hip-hop? this is edited to make his voice higher pitched but the words are real:

https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1210081908354359296?s=21

ugh hes the worst

hey Ben Shapiro would have you know that his father is a music theorist and so he's perfectly qualified to say rap doesn't count as music

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Wanglicious posted...

it is, right now that's one of the most divisive factors. so he accepts the idea of privilege and agrees that some have more of it than others. but he goes a step further and expands it to being positives and negatives for being whatever you are. this is where you get a common split from the fringe that focuses heavily on it and everyone else. there's an acceptance that the concept exists and is true but a disagreement on its impact and importance with the main exception being class. for him and all the "problematic leftists" that's basically going to be the underlying belief; that position isn't objectionable to the center or right either by the way, it's just going further than that where things fall apart. for a clear example, take the way the democratic debates focused on having people of color in it, take the way Kamala complained that part of it's being a black woman, same for Booker and Castro afterwards. that part doesn't fly with anybody outside that circle that fully embraces identity politics.

I honestly can't tell what point you're trying to get across here. Acknowledging that racism etc. is bad is fine up to a certain point but emphasizing it too much becomes identity politics and polarizes people? Where's the line? Using it this way just turns it into an extremist scare phrase.

I'd also disagree with it being a tiny group of people concerned about it because my perspective is that identity plays a large role in American politics. But maybe things like religion, national and state identity, party affiliation, and class don't meet your standards.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Yeah I cant remember specifically his thoughts on identity politics, but I have 100% heard him say that the average middle class person has no idea what its like growing up a poor minority, and that we should fix the system so no one starts at a deficit.

That seems reasonable, though I'm forced to interpret "fixing the system" to include issues of identity.

When people acknowledge these problems exist but also rail against "identity politics" it really throws people since it's so contradictory. And you mainly see that stuff from right-wingers/centrists. The leftists who make a big deal about disliking it are like the hardcore class-first socialists and they're pretty uncommon to encounter.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I feel like I'm about to regret this, but what are Joe's thoughts on "identity politics"?

But actually, this isn't actually a criticism or question to apply just to Joe Rogan. You could level it at a lot of these "problematic" leftists too. But in general I think people's perspective on these issues is a major factor on alienating them from "the left" as a whole and causes a lot of confusion and dissention.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Hello, I'm Hugh Jazz

edit: also cant believe this classic is ommitted

https://youtu.be/rIy_RXX_VLE

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Even the article Wang posted points out how reasoned debate tends to fail and cause both parties to walk away with their original belief hardened.

Which, as the article points out, is pretty ironic. And sadly applies to the rest of the generized argument presented. Most of it is lamenting that liberals don't seem to understand or respect tradition, and traditional values, having varied foundations, lead to more diversity of thought. I almost understand this argument but it's kind of a "no shit" thing because rejecting "tradition for tradition's sake" is one of the core aspects of progressivism.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

no matter how many times Heartman gives a thumbs up to the camera it makes me laugh every time

Heartman radiates positive energy, he's great

also

MoogleKupo141 posted...

what why does my sister have a secret name that Sam didnt know

https://youtu.be/t-3i6GBYvdw

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Jakyl25 posted...

Wang, the common denominator with almost all of the people you mentioned that the left demonizes is that theyre openly bigoted towards various groups, typically Muslims or LGBT

Engaging with them legitimizes their bigotry.

So much for the tolerant left!

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Jakyl25 posted...

Just dropped them $25

nice

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I got into the stress test but the servers were pretty busted so I didn't get to try it out. Was going to wait until the campaign is finished to give it a shot. Doubly so if they're still a little fucked up.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

donate to raices

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Wanglicious posted...

this ain't either.
the idea that conservatives - not even all of the right, just conservatives - have no brains is no better than when you have people say liberals have no brains. neither statement is productive. that's not a position found in political alignment as much as basic humanity.

so in other words....both sides are equally bad

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

I think the Republican Party should set up a program to pay people to leave. After a few million liberals leave the US the Democratic Party will never win another national election.

Dont worry, us liberals will make sure to coordinate so that the electoral college vote is unaffected.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

Safety is just a component, though if USA wanted to invade Canada tomorrow it wouldn't be exactly hard. From a military perspective. The United States is the best overall. Not just militarily.

Is this criteria just "who would win in a fight"

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

tbqh I'd miss good barbecue and Mexican food if I moved to Canada. also too cold.

Still would consider it!

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

LordoftheMorons posted...

The issue is that M4A proponents are demanding that I (and all other Americans) gamble on things indeed being properly constructed. Thats a pretty damn big ask when there are plenty of alternative systems that cover everyone and wouldnt require everyone to take that risk.

The problem is that the alternative systems proposed aren't really enough for where we are at right now. I mean, anything is better than what we have, but still. A robust public option could work but we need a major realignment similar to how it has worked in European countries.

Warren has the best public option by far and a lot of people say that isn't enough! Pete's and Biden's are even more marginal, offer free coverage at lower levels of poverty, and don't even allow employer buy-ins. They're all on the individual side. It's not enough.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

MoogleKupo141 posted...

what good is having a large gdp if its not actually making peoples lives better compared to countries with smaller gdps

were not better than Sweden or wherever, were just larger

There's some benefits to being large though. Sweden specifically has high immigration numbers but I'm sure the US is more diverse than a lot of European countries, which imo is a massive benefit. This doesnt make up for the poor quality of life disparities here but that's why we try to improve it.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

Can we blame senators and representatives who state how they will obviously vote when they will lose their office if they don't vote that way regardless of how they actually feel?

Uh, yes? We absolutely can. They were elected to lead and bring expertise to issues, not vote in self-interest for their job security. They need to strike a balance between that and representing the entire population of people they represent, NOT just placating the fraction of people who voted for them in that state.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

xp1337 posted...

https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1216432197529456650

because this take keeps surfacing here and we apparently haven't dunked on it enough to put it to rest

Before Gabbard got into her fight with Clinton (which as you'll recall was entirely the fault of the NYT egregiously misquoting her) Gabbard had a net favorability of -5 in Iowa. After? -42.

I don't see how this is irreconcilable with Tulsi getting a boost in notoriety from the media, polarizing the people who are now informed of her antics, and getting enough of a bump in polling to make one last debate. It just didn't last.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

The Trump family will have a private primary to decide which member they run to avoid splitting the votes. The GOP will not support Kanye.

Much like how they didn't support Trump initially, his anti-establishment bonafides combined with his youth support will only make Yeezy stronger.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

So now our field for Republican nominee 2024:

Bernie Sanders
Tulsi Gabbard
Andrew Yang
Pete Buttigieg
George Prescott Bush
Ivanka Trump
Kellyanne Conway
Nikki Haley
Matt Gaetz
Marco Rubio
Ted Cruz

Looks pretty good!

You somehow forgot Don Jr., Eric Trump, and most importantly Kanye West

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

xp1337 posted...

I would also agree with you that the "Clinton not endorsing Sanders is actually a positive!" is a really silly take. But whatever who cares why do we keep talking about itttttt

well we keep talking about it because as evidenced by Jakyl's latest article post, the media fucking LOVES Hillary

wow ninjad

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.