Lurker > Maze_

This is an artist vs a pragmatist right here.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

No "beat the devil out of it"?

4/10
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

CommonStar posted...

Is she not allowed to move on and continue with her life?

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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

'Bad Sonic games? What bad Sonic games?"
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

BillyKidd posted...

What would you do if one day, your dog turned, looked at you, and said "No one will ever believe you." And never spoke again.

I once heard my dog say "Where's the Marmite?"

Not sure if that exists in America. Australian's call it Vegemite, you put it on sandwiches.

It was yawning but it sounded just like it said that. Thankfully my sibling heard it too so I didn't seem crazy.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Man that guy interviewing her is an ass.

He's got this "I'm so much better than you" air and he talks like he looks down on everyone.

What a dick
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

BJ,we need you defending us with the MG42!
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Someone told me there was a tie in Ghost Rider PS2 game.

I've never seen it but it got me thinking about Nicolas Cage and made me realize, the dude is in like no games or at least no games are made on his work that I know of.

Is Ghost Rider the only one?

Is there a game of The Rock? or Adaptation? Or Face-off?

Did he do any voice work?
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

YellowSUV posted...

Wonder what ever happened to Kyle Justin. The episodes he appeared in were usually great.

He still pops up from time to time

He built the sets used in the Board James and Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde commercial.

And was in one or two of the James and Mike Monday episodes.

Southernfatman posted...

Hopefully they didn't fall out like that stuff with Bootsy. I miss his old friends. Those screenwave guys suck. Even Mike is more likeable than they are.

Yeah that was sad.

Especially because he's a lifelong friend of James, they went to college together.

Allegedly the fallout was because Bootsy never got a cut of the ad revenue or DVD sales of videos, even the ones that contained him or his music. He asked Mike for a cut and they fell out over it

But Bootsy has been tight lipped about it and Mike literally bans/deletes/blocks any one who brings it up.

So God knows what happened.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Tmaster148 posted...

That means teachers must promote celibacy as the most effective way to prevent pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases.

Well celibacy is the most effective way to prevent that shit.

But why can't they talk about other things as well?
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Don't get me wrong, the music is great, the chorus is fine and Cooper is a fantastic singer... But some of the lines.

But look at the verses

You're with your baby
And you're parked alone
On a summer night
You're deep in love
But you're deeper in the woods
You think you're doin' alright

Did you hear that voice
Did you see that face
Or was it just a dream
This can't be real
That only happens, babe
On the movie screen

You're swimmin' with your girl
Out on lovers' lake
And the wind blows cold
It chills your bones
But you're still on the make
That's a bad mistake

But the moon was full
And you had a chance
To be all alone
But you're not alone
This is your last dance
And your last romance

Not only are these lines weird, why does only every 3rd one rhyme at first? Then at the end the 3rd lines rhyme again but also the last lines do back to back? What kind of structure is that? And why do 2 back to back lines end on the same word "alone"?

Reminds me of that Snake Eater song where at one point it goes "SOME DAYS YOU DINE ON A TREE FROG!" for no reason halfway through
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

It also doesn't add up anyway because FFX-2 reveals that she never reached the Farplane.

Neither did Zaon.

Instead after you beat Yunalesca up and killed Sin forever, they went to Bevelle and lived at the bottom of a massive whole doing nothing. That's canon.

I wish I was kidding.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Still waiting to hear what I ignored

feel like I'm going to be waiting longer than Meachen walked Spira
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

gunplagirl posted...

Tc ignores every reasonable explanation

Name one thing I ignored

The other guy couldn't either
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

gunplagirl posted...

Yeah. Yunalesca presented a cycle of death and she made it clear she wouldn't let Yuna and company leave, she saw no end to Sin and said it was part of an eternal cycle, so by refusing it the group had chosen to die, and a quick death from her was a mercy. It was only because of her facing all those aeons and guardians at once that she was defeated but she never considered the possibility that she would lose, read her dying lines.

Yunalesca never made it clear that she wouldn't let them leave until she randomly says she'll kill them as a mery.

It's contrived.

Lulu offering Wakka a chance to run was because of how devout he had been. But remember how his resolve had been challenged and steeled it instead towards helping Yuna with whatever path she chose to move down, rather than adhering to tradition. Wakka realizing Seymour ignored the teachings at the entrance to Mushroom Rock Road, him realizing Rikku was an Al Bhed but still wanted to protect Yuna, knowing the cost of the journey for Yuna and agreeing that the Al Bhed had a point in kidnapping sunmoners, all the taboo machina in Bevelle and even the temple, the organization Yevon knew they had the deceased among them and didn't care, then ultimately finding out that the idea of atoning through their sins would never make Sin disappear.

I think you're overthinking it, I think Wakka just didn't want to abandon his friends

Besides Auron, nobody necessarily wanted to fight, but there was no way they all could have ran away.

Why not?

As for not contacting Dona? Based on all the dialogue in X-2 and outfits, we can assume that after defeating Yunalesca the group went to Bevelle, spoke of their plan to sing the hymn to that acolyte lady (Shelinda?) and then went off to fight Sin. The other side content? Not explicitly confirmed in canon, so we have no idea if they returned to Zanarkand to monster collect for the arena or saw Dona, not that they'd actually want to find the other summoners out there, the sense of urgency and desire to see it all finished was there.

Whether or not it's canon that they saw Dona is irrelevant, the point is the game demonstrates that they never even thought about other summoners.

JE19426 posted...

Maze_ posted...

Name one reason I have ignored.

Nah,

Yeah I knew you couldn't

JE19426 posted...

1) I never once claimed that Yuna fought Yunalesca because Yuna thought she was so great. Not once.
2) Yuna isn't murdering anyone, she's sending an unsent which is literally part of the job description of a summoned.
3) The idea that a summoner doing their job as a summoner is out of character, or contrived is laughable.

1. Good. Then we agree the reasoning makes zero sense.

2. Semantics.

You're brutalizing a living , thinking, feeling ,growing consciousness until it is lifeless and then sending it to the afterlife.

That's killing.

3. So how come she doesn't send Auron, Meachen, Belgamine etc the moment she meets them?

The dialogue is never "Yunalesca is unsent! We must murder her!" the dialogue is all about the final aeon and Sin returning
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

JoeDangIt posted...

If it's a god given right then why doesn't he enforce it himself and stop wasting my tax money?

God helps those who help themselves
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

JE19426 posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

Actually, is there a reason some unsent remain in human form for (seemingly) forever? I thought after a time all unsent would turn into fiends, and it wae just those with strong wills that were able to remain "human" for a time.

No, you are exactly right. The stronger your will the longer it takes to become a friend. Yunalesca was really, really strong willed and lasted a thousand years.

This is actually debatable. The only dialogue about it is

The dead need guidance. Filled with grief over their own death, they refuse to face their fate. They yearn to live on, and resent those still alive. You see, they envy the living. And in time, that envy turns to anger, even hate. Should these souls remain in Spira, they become fiends that pray on the living. Sad, isn't it?"

Which is about pyreflies when people die.

Where as Unsent sort of accept that they are dead and don't envy the living, they just have a purpose that makes them stick around. Yunalesca has to keep making final aeons, Seymour wants to kill everyone, Auron wants to show Tidus to Jecht.

I mean Meachen literally forgot that he was unsent and has spent 1000 years as an unsent scholar. Never becoming a fiend.

But where is gets confusing is an Al Bhed at the start says Tidus might be a fiend in diguise.

And the FFX-2 international and HD version have a whole side bit about fiends having personalities and purposes which is why they became fiends.

So it's not clear what the canon is.

However nothing at all demonstrates that Yunalesca or Seymour or Auron or Meachen are at risk of turning into a flan. They are unsent, not fiends.

Kazi1212 posted...

IMO its because she was afraid Yuna and crew would expose the false teachings of Yevon to the public.

But as stated, Auron knew, Seymour knew, Belgaminane knew.

And her dialogue doesn't express fear of this

JE19426 posted...

No, I didn't give an example as you ignored them all previous times they've been given so why you suddenly not ignore them now?

Name one reason I have ignored.

What? If you don't think Yuna did it because she thinks she's so great, why did you claim she did it for that reason?

No my point is Yuna thinking she is the only one who has the right to stop Sin and being so arrogant as to literally murder people who disagree with her and have other options because she's so great (Which was your argument) is entirely out of character and contrived.

Yuna's whole speech was that she will defeat Sin without a new final aeon because she hates the false hope of the cycle ending when it never will. She doesn't say no one else is allowed to use a final aeon.

They don't even tell Dona to stop her pilgramage after they kill Yunalesca, this concept never crossed their minds.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Seaman_Prime posted...

I always thought it was to keep the Final Aeon a secret. Cant have Yuna and party telling everyone how its pointless

but she doesn't care that Auron , Yevon, Belgamibe, Seymour all know the truth

Tyranthraxus posted...

don't know why you keep bringing this shit up.

Jecht is not controlling Sin. Jecht is Sin and Yu Yevon is controlling Jecht. The Hymn of the Fayth helps Jecht resist Yu Yevon and that's it.

That's the same point in different words "He has no control to hinder sin he just resists sin to hinder sin "

How can Jecht resist If he has no control? Sin is Jecht. He has some level of control over sin. going to dream Zanarkand, taking Tidus to besaid, following Yuna to Zanarkand, weakening sin

that's control

JE19426 posted...

Lmao, where on Earth does she claim it's because she's so great?

Exactly

JE19426 posted...

Wrong, there is a good reason, and it's been explained to you, you just choose to ignore it.

I don't ignore it. I just disprove it.

hence why you couldn't even give an example. you just said "there is good reason " Because you know any actual reason you could give is contrived

JE19426 posted...

She isn't killing anyone, she's sending an unsent, you know part of her job as a summoner.

That's semantics.

You're brutalizing a living , thinking, feeling ,growing consciousness until it is lifeless and then sending it to the afterlife.

That's killing.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

thronedfire2 posted...

wow this topic got silly

That's the way I like it baby

Long and silly

JE19426 posted...

So what you are saying is that anytime they knowing encounter an unsent, they talk to them and then send them, but talking to this one specific unsent and sending them afterwards is all out of character. That seems pretty inconsistent.

No that's not what I am saying, that's just a strawman.

JE19426 posted...

I fail to see how sending Yunalesca, is risking dooming the entire world.

It risks it because it removes the only known way to defeat Sin and reach Yu Yevon. At a time where Seymour is still around planning to take over Sin no less.

Sure Yuna thinks up a way to win without Yunalesca (Using magic Yunalesca already did) but she literally gambled with the entire world to do so purely because she thinks she's so great.

That's out of character.

Yuna being opposed to the cycles doesn't equate to her wanting to kill people. She should be open to what Yunalesca brings to the table, even if she disagrees with her.

As I said imagine if Sin flattened the Airship after they killed Yunalesca. What happens now? Yuna going all in on herself and putting Spira itself on the line for that gamble for literally no benefit is out of character

There's no reason why Yuna would fight or send Yunalesca.

And there's no reason why Yunalesca would fight Yuna.

It was contrived to make them do so to have a boss fight.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

JE19426 posted...

Would you kill your friends if they asked you to do so? I think most people would not, yet Yuna does that if you consider sending the unsent to be murdering them.

Kind of a lack of context here but yes, I believe in euthanasia.

I wouldn't kill someone because they disagreed with on something. I especially woudn't risk dooming the entire world because we disagreed with each other.

Remember that killing Yunalesca ends the cycles forever before they even had a plan of how to stop Sin

That kind of arrogance is waaaaaaaaaay out of character for everyone in the party except arguably Auron who has a beef

JE19426 posted...

They didn't know Mika was unsent until he seemed to send himself, furthermore I'm lmao at the idea of trying to send Yunalesca while she's attacking them.

They don't go "Quick we must send Mika!"

They go "Quick! We must ask Mika some questions."

Actually them trying to send Yunalesca first (like they did with Lulu's first summoner) would actually be an explanation for Yunalesca attacking you.

But it still wouldn't explain why Yuna would do that.

There's no point where Yuna goes hunting Unsent like a Ghostbuster against their wills just to kill them for the hell of it. They all want to pass on or are direct threats attacking her.

Dona might send at first sight. But Yuna is a good girl. Hence why they have such a big dramatic conversation in the first place
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

dave_is_slick posted...

You quoted lines that supported me my dude. I've been saying from the get go that they are one and the same. The Jecht part of Sin is what allowed it to be somewhat calmed. Did you pay any attention to the game?

That's what I said

You said

dave_is_slick posted...

Maze_ posted...

You do realize Jecht is what weakened Sin which allowed you to reach Yu Yevon Right?

Nope. Sin IS Jecht, Jecht IS Sin. Jecht may be aware of what he's doing but he's powerless to stop it. He can't do a damn thing to help Tidus out.

dave_is_slick posted...

It didn't bring out anything. Jecht didn't do anything at that part. There was no control to be gained.

Then I quoted the game and you ran away

Now you're saying what I said and 180ing your stance.

This mixed in with your utterly bizarre "OMG you made this topic before claim" and your backing out of claiming Yunalesca attacking you to "honor her father" being confirmed in the game that you are now ignoring after stating, just cements to me that you're trolling.

So unless your next post is an apology I'm going to ignore you.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

JE19426 posted...

Yes I do.

Well I don't

JE19426 posted...

You mean the two she sent, and third that seemed to send himself? I think it shows she'd send Yunalesca.

Yeah after extended periods of time when they were no longer aiding her and wanted to be sent.

Yuna is not an aggressive person.

I think you're only arguing this stance because you want the fight in the game to be justified, because it's not consistant at all with the character

She doesn't even try to send Mika and never attempted to send Yunalesca until after the long conversation and fight.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

It's a terrible movie but it has a facinating behind the scenes history that I can't do justice.

Seriously the behind the scenes is a better story than the movie itself.

There was literally like 17 scripts written by about 12 different writers. Some of which were utterly insane.

Originally the stories were about Hicks with Ripley not in them. The plan was to have a Hicks focused movie and then Alien 4 sent on Earth as a Finale with Hicks and Ripley both back. When they switched it to being about Ripley again, Michael Biehn was so furious (after being promised that he was going to be the lead) that he refused to let them use his likeness. That's why they Not only killed him off but flattened his fucking head, so you never saw his face

Meanwhile Sigourney Weaver did come back but she had conditions, she wanted there to be no guns in the movie and demanded that she died at the end to write her out of it. (Ironic considering she came back)

They had already spent half the budget on rewritting scripts and had already starting creating props and sets based on a script that wasn't even the one they were using so they had to make do.

Then between this nightmare, the producers, actors, props, scripts etc. Vincent Ward was fired as director during production due to constant arguing.

David Fincher was called in during production to direct this mess which pissed off Sigourney Weaver who continued to make demands or threatened to quit production.

One demand being that David Giler's ideas supercede Fincher.... So the actress is telling the writer/producer to override the director.... wtf...

So Fincher and Giler were arguing the entire production until Giler literally walked off set and said he couldn't take it anymore due to frustration.

And this is only scratching the surface. The entire production cycle was a tortured mess.

The sheer fact Fincher salvaged as good of a movie as he did out of this dung heap is a testament to how talented he is.

As bad as Alien 3 is, it has some good ideas and a 3 act structure. IT's "interesting" just not very good.

And as a sequel to Aliens it's horrible.

But seriously I suggest everyone go look up the behind the scenes production of Alien 3. Read interviews, watch videos, look at some of the unearthed rejected scripts. It's amazing.

Jagermeister513 posted...

nevershine posted...

Not as bad as resurrection

I agree with this. Resurrection was trash.

I disagree.

Resurrection was stupid and dumb, but taken as a stupid dumb movie it was a lot of fun.

Alien 3 took itself seriously and had no fun in it whatsoever. So it sucked.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

dave_is_slick posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Maze_ posted...

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Yunalesca wants to continue the cycle beyond everything else, not just to save the people of Spira but to honor her father.

She attacks the party because you are turning your back not only on Spira as a whole (in her opinion) but also you will murder her father.

This is an assumption.

It is confirmed in the Final Fantasy X Ultimania Omega

Hell, it's confirmed in the game as well. She doesn't need to explicitly state it for it to be true.

When was this confimed in the game?

Coming from the same guy who earlier was arguing the game never said Jecht was holding Sin back and then went silent when it was brought up that it did repeatedly.

JE19426 posted...

Lolwhat? Who do they murder? Yunalesca is an unsent, sending the unsent is one of the main roles of a summoner, it's totally in character for Yuna to sent an unsent.

If you say so.

That just seems like an evasion of the question to me.

"Why would Yuna be so arrogant and out of character, then risk screwing over the entire planet?"

"Well... the bitch is unsent."

Do you think Yuna would have tried to send her if Yunalesca hadn't attacked her?

Look at Auron, Belgemine, Meachen.

The motivation just isn't there for why they would be doing this.

bover_87 posted...

Yunalesca's reason for fighting the party is some combination of protecting her father and the desire to maintain Spira's cycle

But as stated all she is doing is risking the cycle by attacking.

She thinks they will die without the final aeon's help (correctly) then pretty much kills herself by attacking and nearly fucks up all of Spira forever.

The party's reason for fighting is that when the player's party refused to make a Final Aeon Yunalesca basically said she would wipe their sorry asses off the face of the planet, basically forcing them into battle.

Okay but why tho? Story wise why don't they leave? Lulu even brings up running as an option to Wakka.

I can't think of any other point in the game where "Why don't they just leave?" is a valid question other than this one.

Exept that Second Seymour fight where they.... just leave...

Yunalesca symbolizes the Yevon system--lies, corruption, religious zealotry, and the spiral of death. In particular, two of the main themes of FFX are nihilism versus existentialism and lies versus truth. Yunalesca represents very strongly both nihilism and lies, and the party, being the do-gooders they are, destroyed her, in the process eliminating one of the core pillars of the Yevon religion.

Yeah the fight itself was cool.

It's just the plot and characters that are contrived.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

Yunalesca wants to continue the cycle beyond everything else, not just to save the people of Spira but to honor her father.

She attacks the party because you are turning your back not only on Spira as a whole (in her opinion) but also you will murder her father.

This is an assumption.

She never says any of this and it goes against what she does say.

On top of that, it still doesn't make sense. If she cares about continuing the cycle why does she risk the cycle by attacking you?

And why doesn't she say "I won't let you dishonor my father! I will protect Spira!" or something rather than her weird mercy death rant. Why would she lie moments before killing someone in a room with no one in it?

Why didn't see attack Auron? She didn't give a fuck until Auron tried to kill her.

And even so, why would the team not just leave and why would they send her?

Again your explaination doesn't make sense, goes against what she actually says/does, doesn't explain Yuna's actions and is still contrived.

It's just a contrived scene.
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

MasterGakke posted...

I forget the episode but the one where he said 'fuck' over and over again and it cut faster and faster to him screaming, punching pillows, and choking himself with the controller cord, until it stopped and he just chugged a beer. It's just a perfect representation of getting frustrated at a game, burning out your frustration, and then taking a swig to start again.

I think that was the PRedator review in the Arnold Schwarzenegger video
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Cleo_II posted...

Sigh now I have the urge to play IX again.

Probably because it's great
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

DeadBankerDream posted...

I think you're being super silly though. Why does she need a super intricate reason to attack them?

Who said anything about super intricate.

A reason period would have done. One that makes sense.

By letting them go she endangering her own existence beyond just being a dead spirit in a dead city where nothing happens if Yuna and co. goes back and spread the truth they found in Zanarkand and their ideology that the final summoning is bad, m'kay.

Not really. She believes they are all about to die trying to fight Sin without the Final Aeon anyway.

And she clearly had no issue with Auron or Seymour or any of the major Yevon figures knowing the truth about the final aeon.

In fact attacking 7 powerful warriors including a powerful summoner is what puts the cycle in danger. Letting them kill themselves seems like the safest and most rational course of action for her interets.

She also never claims she fears them ending her cycle, quite the opposite, she openly thinks their cause is lost and believes killing them is a mercy.

There, the situation is perfectly valid and not contrived at all.

Considering you had make a bunch of stuff up that goes entirely against everything she said as well as a logic AND STILL failed to explain why it makes sense to attack them, no.

It's completely contrived.

Religion doesnt have to make logical sense

Boo! That's a cop out answer. Boooo to you sir!

KeeperOfShadows posted...

How is anything Yunalesca does "out of character"? The scene that establishes her character is the only scene she's in. There's no pre-established personality to contradict.

That's not really true. We see her earlier in Seymour's bedroom and Meachen gives us an entire backstory to her.

Second to that, the way she acts is totally off kilter to her interets and what she says in that scene. So "How it is out of character she only has one scene" doesn't really add up

You might not like the reasoning behind her actions, but that's a different issue entirely.

Not really.... Since the issue is "Why does the reasoning behind her actions make sense and not be contrived?"
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Ah he deleted his post.

Fair enough I would have too if I was him
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

DeadBankerDream posted...

Is this a troll topic?

They fought her because she offered them a choice they couldn't refuse, they refused it and she attacked them.

Yes but why did she attack them?
Why didn't they just leave?
Why did they send her?

None of the actions or motivations here make sense or are coherant.

Did you read the OP? I questioned Yunalesca attacking them just as much as them fighting back.

It's contrived as hell. I think the most contrived fight in the entire game (although the Bevelle section was more contrived plotwise)
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When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

dave_is_slick posted...

Wrong. What part of them being the same being are you not getting? It didn't bring out anything. Jecht didn't do anything at that part. There was no control to be gained.

Except he made Sin weak.

They go on and on about it. So much so that I can't quote every single line since so many characters mention it but here's a few:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/ps2/197344-final-fantasy-x/faqs/43142



Auron: "What do we know... Sin is Jecht. Thus, you have a link...a bond with Sin. That may be our key."
___

Lulu: "Sir Jecht likes the Hymn of the Fayth, correct?"

Tidus: "Yeah."

Rikku: "That's why he was listening to it in Macalania!"

Lulu: "Sin...violence incarnate, listening peacefully."

Wakka: "I know it's your old man, and I don't mean no disrespect, but..."

Tidus: "No, it's fine. I've gotten used to it."

Lulu: "Let me say it. If we attack Sin head-on, we've little chance of winning. However, if he hears the Hymn of the Fayth, he will become docile."

Wakka: "Yeah, and that's when we make our move! Might be against the rules and all, but who's keeping track, ya? Ya?"

---
"We think the Hymn of the Fayth might slow Sin down."

Fayth: "If it works, what'll you do then? You need more than the hymn."
Tidus: ""We fight Yu Yevon."
Fayth: "Yes... If you defeat Yu Yevon, it will end. Tell me, what do you know about Yu Yevon?"
___
Jecht: "I can't hear the Hymn so well anymore. Pretty soon, I'm gonna be Sin. Completely. I'm glad you're here now. One thing, though... When it starts, I won't be myself anymore. I won't be able to hold myself back. I'm sorry."

And so on and so on and so on

Jecht has limited influence over Sin. Sin is somewhat affected by Jecht's personality. Hence how Jecht was able to make Sin go to Dream Zanarkand, take Tidus to Besaid.

And when he hears the hymm, he gets more control and with more of Jecht's personality, allowing him to cripple Sin so they can take it down.

I recall you doing something very similar in another topic, where you had a problem with a game, damn near everyone gives you clear concise answers as to why it was that way, and you refusing to acknowledge you were wrong about whatever the hell it was. Not gonna waste my time again.

No you don't. Stop making shit up.

KeeperOfShadows posted...

Because the revelation that Sin would always come back led them to view the final summoning as pointless. They didn't want people sacrificing themselves just to continue a neverending cycle any longer.

Certainly, you could say it was selfish of them to make such an important decision on their own, but they felt it was for the good of everyone, and believed that they'd find a way to properly end Sin.

Except Yunalesca attacked them

And that's totally out of character.

Remember at the time they don't know about Yu Yevon. Yuna never says "No one should do this" she talks about how she can't believe in False Hope.

Her leaping to "Therefore I have to murder you." Doesn't really add up.

It's still contrived and out of character.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Rika_Furude posted...

No, Jecht is sin. Its even told to you in the game. Jecht himself says it

Yes?

Tyranthraxus posted...

Maze_ posted...

In theory sure.

But this also would have blown up the planet. So the point is moot.

Vegnagun is too powerful, that's why it was never considered an option against Sin. Vegnagun couldn't have brought peace to Spira.

It had the potential to destroy the planet and has a control apparatus. Not a guaranteed thing.

Vegnagun is somewhat alive and can't be controlled. If they unleashed it on Sin it would blow up the planet

It was not deployed because it was considered too risky although what they did by killing Yunalesca is arguably just as risky.

Yes I completely agree

Killing Yunalesca risked the entire planet.... So why did they do it?
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

dave_is_slick posted...

Maze_ posted...

You do realize Jecht is what weakened Sin which allowed you to reach Yu Yevon Right?

Nope. Sin IS Jecht, Jecht IS Sin. Jecht may be aware of what he's doing but he's powerless to stop it. He can't do a damn thing to help Tidus out.

False.

That's why you get everyone in the world to sing the hymm of the fayth.

It brings out Jechts humanity and allows him some level of influence over Sin. Enough to weaken him.

That's why they are able to disable Sin long enough to get to Yu Yevon

Tyranthraxus posted...

You're right up until here.

Sin was destroyed by Braska's Final Aeon. The calm represents a time after which Sin is destroyed but the Final Aeon has not yet been fully corrupted by Yu Yevon.

Sin _is_ Jecht by the time you start the game.

Yes, what's your point?

How was I wrong?

Tyranthraxus posted...

Yunalesca is also just regular wrong. Vegnagun could have done it as well leaving Yu Yevon a hollowed out roach without a final aeon to possess.

In theory sure.

But this also would have blown up the planet. So the point is moot.

Vegnagun is too powerful, that's why it was never considered an option against Sin. Vegnagun couldn't have brought peace to Spira.

Lairen posted...

I think ffx is hot garbage. I bought it on release and quit a few hours in cause it was so bad.

Booo FFX is great
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Greetings from the UK.

We've had 3 (Arguably 4 since we had a riot that was put down with gunfire) Mass Shootings in our nation's entire history.

Just thought I'd bring that up for the people who say gun control doesn't work.

Hope you find a solution to your gun violence.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

DespondentDeity posted...

Maze_ posted...

Smashingpmkns posted...

We'd be fuckin for sure if you know what I mean.

She's like 47% robot dude

Yeah dude, she might have an upgraded vagina.

I think Archer had an episode about that
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Smashingpmkns posted...

We'd be fuckin for sure if you know what I mean.

She's like 47% robot dude
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

dave_is_slick posted...

Your question has been answered several times over.

Yeah but the answers suck

Also I didn't ask a question.

dave_is_slick posted...

Maze_ posted...

She says that it's impossible to defeat Sin without it (She's actually right)

If she was the game would've ended right there.

You do realize BFA is a Final Aeon right?

You do realize that's Jecht right?

You do realize Yunalesca made Jecht into BFA right?

You do realize Jecht is what weakened Sin which allowed you to reach Yu Yevon Right?

So you do realize no Final Aeon means you never would have reached Yu Yevon Right?

So no Yunalesca and no Final Aeon means Sin never would have been defeated.

Yunalesca is only wrong because she didn't realize how much Jecht's humanity could cripple Sin, making it possible to end the cycles

And at the time, Yuna and Co did not realize this either.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Rika_Furude posted...

They fought her because they thought the final aeon is BS and that there has to be a better solution

That's a non sequitur

"I killed him officer because I think Diesel cars are more fuel efficent than gasoline."

Well you can go off and think that without killing the guy

Tidus didn't kill Bickson when they disagreed on who was going to win at Blitzball
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

You were stuck with her on a spaceship with no fuel?

Her and Tony just played paper football.

And I don't know, I'd think after a week or so I'd be doing much more crazy things with that much spare time and cabin fever.

I feel like when Captain Marvel turned up they should have been like riding bicycles jousting with toilet plungers or something.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

I could be wrong, but doesnt Yunalesca state they cannot just leave? Like she vaguely threatens them that they either get the final aeon or their "journey is over"?

She says that it's impossible to defeat Sin without it (She's actually right) and that they are delusional and cannot win.

Then she attacks them in her mind out of mercy.

Lulu tells Wakka that he could run away and Wakka says he wouldn't be able to live with himself. Which begs the question why don't they all run away.

Then after beating Yunalesca they send her for no reason.

Basically everyone acts out of character, makes weird decisions and assists the main villain just to give us a boss fight
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

JE19426 posted...

Maze_ posted...

I don't agree with that. It destroys the entie tension and plot if you go "The villain is actually wrong and can't really win"

That's abysmally awful storytelling. The implication is clear that if you die, Seymour will end all life on Spira.

No it doesn't at all. If Seymour kills you Sin is still going to go around killing tons of people.

Yes but Sin is mindless. So people live forever

Seymour Sin will SEEK OUT everyone and wipe them out

Jeff AKA Snoopy posted...

They fought because after hearing the reality of the position they were put in with the cycle over and over, they know if Yunalesca is not defeated then other summoners WILL continue the cycle were they to fail.

So?

This basically ensured that moving forward, the only way to beat Sin is to literally destroy it.

I don't believe that because Yunalesca attacked them.

It's also out of character. It's contrived as hell that Yuna would be arrogant enough to not only make that decision but literally murder in order to do so.


Yuna: "My father... I loved him. So I... I will live with my sorrow, I will live my own life! I will defeat sorrow, in his place. I will stand my ground and be strong. I don't know when it will be but someday, I will conquer it. And I will do it without...false hope."


Doesn't gel with "Motherfucker I'm gona kill u cuz i'm the greatest son of abitch who ever lived lul"
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Seymour's goal is to literally kill everyone because life is just suffering. To him, the defeat of Yunalesca means he can just sit back and let Sin destroy the world since he (and Yunalesca) believe there is no possible way to defeat Sin without the Final Aeon.

Not according to him.

He's still claiming he will control Sin

Seymour: "Sin has chosen me. I am part of Sin. I am one with Sin, forever. Immortal!"

Seymour: "I will learn to control it, from within. I have all the time in the world. Since you were gracious enough to dispose of Yunalesca...the only means of destroying Sin is forever gone. Now nothing can stop us!"

Not that he'll rattle around doing nothing
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Mr Hangman posted...

Because Yunalesca would have killed them because she didn't want Yuna's plan to succeed.

Several things.

1. That's not an answer to my question.

2. It's not that Yunalesca wants them to fail. It's that she doesn't think they can succeed

Yunalesca: "Hope is...comforting. It allows us to accept fate, however tragic it might be."

Tidus: "No!"

[Just then, the specter of Auron from ten years prior appears, squaring off against Yunalesca, saying:]

Auron: "No! Where is the sense in all this? Braska believed in Yevon's teachings and died for them! Jecht believed in Braska and gave his life for him!"

Yunalesca: "They chose to die...because they had hope."

Yunalesca: "Yevon's teachings and the Final Summoning give the people of Spira hope. Without hope, they would drown in their sorrow. Now, choose. Who will be your fayth? Who will be the one to renew Spira's hope?"

Yuna: "No one. I would have gladly died. I live for the people of Spira, and would have gladly died for them. But no more! The Final Summoning...is a false tradition that should be thrown away."

Yunalesca: "No. It's our only hope. Your father sacrificed himself to give that hope to the people. So they would forget sorrow."

Yuna: "Wrong. My father... My father wanted...to make Spira's sorrow go away. Not just cover it up with lies!"

Yunalesca: "Sorrow cannot be abolished. It is meaningless to try."

Yuna: "My father... I loved him. So I... I will live with my sorrow, I will live my own life! I will defeat sorrow, in his place. I will stand my ground and be strong. I don't know when it will be but someday, I will conquer it. And I will do it without...false hope."

Yunalesca: "Poor creature. You would throw away hope. Well... I will free you before you can drown in your sorrow. It is better for you to die in hope than to live in despair. Let me be your liberator."

*after you defeat her before sending her*

Yunalesca: "If I die, so does the Final Aeon. And with it, Spira's only hope."

Yunalesca never states or implies that she wants Yuna to fail. Just that she thinks Yuna's plan is delusional. She considers killing Yuna to be a mercy and when defeated half begs them to not send her as thus remove the Final Aeon to end the cycle.

It doesn't make sense why Yunalesca is literally risking the world as a "Mercy Killing"

And it doesn't sense that Yuna is literally risking the world because she's too arrogant to accept that she might fail.

Both are out of character. In character would be for both parties to walk away and think each other as stubborn fools.

Seymour's a meglomaniac. No reason to think he can succeed in doing that.

I don't agree with that. It destroys the entie tension and plot if you go "The villain is actually wrong and can't really win"

That's abysmally awful storytelling. The implication is clear that if you die, Seymour will end all life on Spira.

The other thing he says in that same line is obviously wrong after all, since they succeed in destroying Sin.

False.... Well sorta.

They never "destroyed Sin"

They weakened Sin and destroyed Yu Yevon (Which then ends Sin)

If Seymour became Sin. Nothing could stop him. The Hymm of the Fayth woudn't do shit. Even if you found a way to bring out Seymour's humanity when he was sin, he wouldn't care or try to hold Sin Back.

You only made it to Yu Yevon because Sin is Jecht, thanks to Yunalesca.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Mr Hangman posted...

Not sure what you're talking about here. Yunalesca started the cycle of Sin being killed and reborn and guides others to doing so, of course sending her is part of stopping that.

Not really. That doesn't make any sense.

1. Being responsible for creating something doesn't mean you have to be dead in order for it to stop. by your logic a daughter can't die until her mother does.

2. Yunalesca is literally required to defeat Sin even without the cycle. You only defeat Yu Yevon because Sin is weakened and Sin is only weakened because Sin is Jecht thanks to Yunalesca.

They inadvertantly address this very point in FFX-2 with Vegnagun. It can never be used against Sin because it's so powerful it will destroy the world. You cannot kill Sin at full strength, the power required would be Worldending. You have to weaken Sin and kill Yu Yevon. You need Yunalesca in that chain in order to create the scenario were Sin can be weakened.

Name one single reason why Yuna's plan would have failed if Yunalesca was still alive and they just left her in Zanarkand?

The fact Yunalesca doesn't think the cycle can be broken is irrelevant. It's uncharacisteric of Yunalesca to risk everything (and lose) for no gain.

And it's uncharacistically arrogant of Yuna to assume she's the only one who deserves the right to stop the cycle and therefore for no gain it's all or nothing on them. Yunalesca has to die.

It's contrived

That doesn't help Seymour in any way, he wanted to be the final aeon, how does he expect to do that now without Yunalesca's assistance?

[The party runs along the misty path until the party happens upon Seymour.]

Tidus: "Don't you ever give up?"

Seymour: "Sin has chosen me. I am part of Sin. I am one with Sin, forever. Immortal!"

Tidus: "Sin just absorbed you."

Seymour: "I will learn to control it, from within. I have all the time in the world. Since you were gracious enough to dispose of Yunalesca...the only means of destroying Sin is forever gone. Now nothing can stop us!"
Credit to @Shotgunnova 's game script.

Seymour is delighted that you took out Yunalesca for him.

You pretty much ensured that there is no way to stop him once he becomes Sin
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Malcrasternus posted...

"We need to do something"

Is just code at this point for wanting a ban, but not being brave or honest enough with themselves to say it.

This is such a bad faith argument.

"I'm not willing to discuss or debate anything because anyone who disagrees just wants complete gun bans and are lying!"

Way to close your mind off from the world and ensure more mass shootings definately will occur.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

ThePrinceFish posted...

Yeah, it's almost as stupid of a take as pretending that modern Democrats are responding to "going low" with "going high".

I don't think either is going high.

But compared to Bush, Romney, McCain and Trump I'd argue Democrats are "Higher" than the Republicans in terms of Rhetoric.

You'd be pretty dishonest to deny that regardless of your politics.
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.

Poor Vivi. Raised by a grandfather who wanted to eat him, discovers he is a doll that was created with no soul, discovers he is mortal and going to die, sees his friends die right in front of him, becomes a slave etc.

Steiner having his back the entire time and being a total bro to him (despite being an asshole to everyone else other than the Royals/Beatrix) is like a rock against the tide.

And no one ever talks about it.

It really humanizes both characters. Steiner would be easy to dislike and kinda 2D with his Javertesq hatred of Zidane, arrogant personality and obsession with duty but his kindess and respect towards Vivi shows that he is a deeply caring and friendly person. Just uptight due to his obession with the law.

And they even work their relationship into gameplay with the SwordMagic thing.

FFIX really was a masterpiece in terms of writing, imagination and passion.

<_< I never made a typo and you can't prove that I did
---

When the going gets tough, the tough go have a little cry in the corner.
"Your mustache is crooked" ~ R.I.P Randy Savage.