Lurker > HeroDelTiempo17

So Bran's actor confirmed in an interview that Martin told D&D that King Bran happens in the books, too.

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/season-8-episode-6-finale-isaac-hempstead-wright-bran-interview

Honestly I'm a little surprised. Not that I couldn't see Martin doing it, but it doesn't have nearly as clear a logical path as other parts of the ending.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Hes clinging to a right to rule just like Dany, and people hate Dany for the same nice lawful character does evil things to upload her rightful claim path.

That's not why people hate Dany
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Hey, those slavers weren't breaking any laws. Meanwhile Stannis outlawed other religions and his subjects had the audacity to still practice them. Point Stannis, don't break the law.

Really though you are just describing why people like Stannis. He IS right, lawfully, and seeing him become corrupted and stoop to evil lengths to uphold the rightful law is the entire appeal. And even his worst actions are clearly explained.

Plus, he has Davos vouching for him and if you don't root for whatever team Davos is on you're basically a monster.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Bran makes less sense as king because it doesnt make sense for anyone other than his sisters and Tyrion to back him up in the moment.

The Tullys and Arryns are close enough to the Starks that having a Stark on the throne should be advantageous to them. And both are enough of a joke that they can't rule themselves.

And (I think) Edmure, Robin, and Gendry are the last major surviving members of their families, so they'd essentially be giving their homeland titles to NPCs if they left for the throne.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yep, the dragons being Daenerys's expressions of agency makes things dissonant from a narrative standpoint. They ARE her sword.

And I'm totally down for that being a slow burn of her more impersonal method of execution leading to her becoming more detached but the show has no interest in doing that and tries to pivot way too fast. Theres some token scenes of the carnage in the Loot Train fight where Tyrion realizes War is Hell and Fire is Bad but it falls completely flat. The Tarly execution needed to be actually controversial and grotesque and not something any lord would have decided to do and then the absolutely laughable 3 seconds of fire and they fall down dead. Followed of course by Tyrion and Varys agonizing over it to explain to the audience how bad fire is.

If she had incinerated the Tarly soldiers that kneel to her after the execution because she decides she can't trust their loyalty or something, that would have gotten the point across.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

what is even the point if you won't be able to enable Nvidia hairworks to fully power geraldo's luscious locks?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ShatteredElysium posted...

I find this pretty interesting

https://twitter.com/jowrotethis/status/1131956466993094656?s=19

I wonder how this looks if you remove the brothel exposition dumps from the first few seasons
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Out of curiosity, did you like the 2014 movie? I'll fully admit I'm not an entrenched Godzilla fan but I thought that one was pretty solid and this one looks better.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Nrrr posted...

this movie looks joyless, only a camp fest could get away with that quality of writing.

"camp fest" and "joyless" are nearly polar opposites to me
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I thought the Somewhere Over the Rainbow trailer made the movie look incredible.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Paratroopa1 posted...

Is it a possible way to circumvent or undermine Obergefell in some way? That's the only thing I can think of

It's a policy that must have some use for proponents of conservative marriage but I don't know what it is

Yeah, it's this. It is to let homophobic judges who don't want to give gay couples marriage licences save face with a loophole instead of getting a judge that actually respects the ruling.

The legislation came in response to the Supreme Courts landmark 2015 ruling that legalized same-sex marriage. Some probate judges in Alabama quit issuing marriage licenses, citing their objections to being forced to sign licenses to same-sex couples.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

GildedFool posted...

If you want her turn to be non-impulsive then it has to have room to build and breathe and we weren't given the episode time to allow that.

You're articulating the exact problem. Changing it from "dany suddenly goes crazy" to "dany can't control her emotions after losing a dragon" doesn't change her arc, it just justifies an in-the-moment decision. That's not really any more satisfying imo.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I like that theory the more I hear it and it isn't really something I thought would be a credible outcome on my initial read of the books. But seeing more pieces and the ending gives it a lot of appeal.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

And I still dont think a recently rapidly supportive of the Faith Militant populace and the Septons and the entire non-North/Islands people who are all Faith of the Seven adamantly would accept an Old Gods worshipping Northman wizard as their King, at all. An uprising is imminent. There has never been an Old Gods religion king. But we stopped showing what the average citizen thought back a few seasons ago.

I mean by this logic they shouldn't have accepted Cersei either. The High Sparrow won over the citizens, ran an impressive smear campaign on her, and then she blew him up. I know the commoners don't really care about the game of thrones but this is an IMPRESSIVE level of apathy.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Imagine being disappointed about how your favorite character ended up and complaining about it on the internet. Who among us would even contemplate such a thing?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

There is a lot of weird shit that would be incredibly blatant to lie about that Holly brings up. Interventions, other friends who knew about the alleged abuse, lawyers that had to be involved.

I get the feeling that everyone involved is being at least somewhat manipulative, but ProJarad most of all since it seems like he engineered the whole thing. And also, you know. Soliciting nudes.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Calintares posted...

It's the perfect system for the nobility to use to preserve the status quo where they hold all the power. They'll have a vested interest in electing weak kings who can't do anything about the nobility. If a king has children (which is very likely to happen with anyone after Bran) then that king will try to place his children on the throne, upsetting the nobles who if they have to chose one of the dead king's children will often deliberately go for the least competent of them in order to preserve their own power. Thus the system incentivises bad kings.

The Westerosi political system has been shown to already be run by the nobles (The Hand + council) who have to play damage control to the inane whims of whatever monarch is on the throne. Even if it's a worse political system, we're supposed to be rooting for the nobles so it's at the very least thematically consistent to present as a win.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ShatteredElysium posted...

Oh yeah, my head canon is absolutely that Bran engineered all of this. Like he could have intervened at several points but none of it would result in him being King so he just passively let shit happen. Or in the instance of Jon/Dany he actively caused it to happen by the Aegon revelation

In this case, Bran let Jon make the call if he told Sansa and Arya or not. Is there a secret ending if Jon goes down the other dialogue tree?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

There are a bunch of dothraki shown milling about in KL when Jon goes to say goodbye so I guess at least some decided to remain. Since the Unsullied opted not to settle The Reach I suppose there's plenty of room for them.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I can also buy that Drogon respects Jon as a Targaryen or can magically empathize with him because of dragon magic nonsense, but none of what allows dragons to bond with Targaryens is ever explained so who knows
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

This guy that Drogon had already been shown to hate killed his mom and he attacks a chair and runs off. That's not intelligence and understanding.

There is no way to read that scene other than Drogon suddenly understanding complex power dynamics and that Dany deserved to die. You can argue that's dumb as hell but Drogon's actions are not those of a stupid animal.

At the VERY LEAST Drogon has one of the healthiest ways of handling grief in the entire series, which is also kinda hilarious
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

PerfectChaosZ posted...

Why in gods name would Drogon just leave

He's looking for more chairs to burn

Real talk I honestly love Drogon showing actual intelligence and understanding in that scene
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I want the inexplicable Saturday morning cartoon version of Jon, Tormund, and Ghost beyond the wall. They go on adventures and solve mysteries while trying to find Tormund a giant wife. They remember to pet the dog once per episode. That evil warg guy follows them around and tries to thwart them and steal Jon's pikac-I mean direwolf. The Children of the Forest somehow bring Ygrette back Coldhands-style or make her a snazzy white Walker body. Jon is all like "I thought you died!" and she says "you really do know nothing, Jon Snow." Everyone laughs.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Isn't the spinoff the Age of Heroes? There should be more fantastical elements or what is even the point?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

LapisLazuli posted...

I've completely avoided all political discussion and news for the last several months.

Miss anything?

someone wrote a report on something, idk, people in the government didnt read it so it probably isnt a big deal
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Seginustemple posted...

oh no it's actually gonna be called "West of Westeros" isn't it

Westereros

Or maybe she sails around the world and finds Easteros.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Oh not only Davos but Arya is around

Arya fucking murders Grey Worm if he even thinks about killing Jon
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Nelson_Mandela posted...

Dany spends 8 seasons building a hundred thousand blindly loyal followers who see her as a god. She is assassinated and we don't even get to see any fallout on camera, and implicitly zero consequences off camera.

That was absolutely the worst part of this episode.

He could have gone to Davos, who would protect him. Killing Jon would have immediately provoked a war, as stated. Grey Worm is smart enough a commander to understand this despite his loyalty. They probably could have cut some of the 10 minutes spend focusing on Sad Tyrion doing nothing but whatever.

The real dumbest thing is Bronn. Bronn did NOTHING and he just gets to turn up at the end and be master of coin, and everyone trusts him because...reasons. I mean I guess he can't really be bought at that point but he'll just take it all to build brothels.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yeah I cant really say that I'm dissatisfied with where anyone ended up. It's just the journey itself.

Bran doesn't make that much sense and neither does Tyrion's pitch but...no one else makes any more sense.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Nanahara715 posted...

He let the damn dog!!!!

Season redeemed tbqh
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

No one is very happy, which makes it a good compromise.

Game of Thrones
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I dont think they're going to go back on it in any way. She explained it as ruling through fear, she's scared Jon might usurp her, sure. It feels like a hasty conclusion because it is, but the conclusion makes sense. Just not how we got here.

They could have either had her do something more controversial than burning the Tarlys before this (I still think this is a lame turning point that), or have limited her rampage to burning Cersei and the hostages in the Red Keep. The total indiscriminate rampage through the main town is the part that feels out of place.

I do think one of the biggest failures of the show is the unclear character motivations when you don't have the internal monologues of the books. Stannis burning Shireen was another moment where I felt they took huge leaps to get to.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I thought it was extremely cool. The DLC can't come soon enough, I really need to see more of this world.

There is some pretty interesting hidden content, I would try to find a spoiler-free guide for it.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Darkseid is
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Nanis23 posted...

Worst writing is still "Killing Littlefinger because Bran hacks" to me, nothing will top this
Littlefinger deserved so much better than that

He honestly didn't, Littlefinger revealed how stupid he actually was when he thought marrying Sansa to Ramsay was a good idea. I can buy him disrespecting Bran's mystic bullshit but he's supposed to be GOOD at political bullshit and that was Ned tier naivete.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

neonreaper posted...

Yeah I've had to do some of the legwork for the writers/directors the past 2-3 seasons, but I've made my peace with it.

I feel the same way. I honestly don't think the writing has gotten any worse since S5, but there was still plenty of book material to distract from it. Dorne and Littlefinger selling out Sansa to Ramsay are still the low points of the show imo and I got over it then. The pacing has absolutely gone to shit though which causes more issues. The other weaknesses have been there for a while.

I am really dreading the wider audience reaction to the ending this Sunday but more than that I'm dreading that audience reactions aren't gonna stop for YEARS. I'm expecting worse than how TLJ was (and still is!).
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Robert Baratheon actually has distant Targaryen ancestry they used to give him a REALLY shitty claim to the throne. Targaryen rule was technically still in effect until Cersei put Joffery on!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Lots of states let you marry your first cousin in the US. And it isn't just the ones you'd think!

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I imagine its the social issues involved, because I thought they released a study that said health risks for first time incest are actually low, its repeated inbreeding that causes the wild shit.

And yeah this is exactly how it works. From a population genetics standpoint, first cousin incest isnt that bad. But it adds up. Maybe that explains why it's more legal.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Xeybozn posted...

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Well, in many cases incest and rape are related.

See, that just makes it even weirder to me. If you have an exception for rape, you don't really need one for incestuous rape unless you want to make sure the rape goes unreported.

What if it is really hard to prove rape occurred but easy to prove illegal incest occurred? It just covers all bases.

Edit: or obviously even legal incest can be dubious with no proof, I didnt need the qualifier
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Well, in many cases incest and rape are related. So you can think of incest in broad strokes as including violent crime that needs to be accounted for. There's also "health of the fetus" as mentioned though this is a bit of a grey area. Also the typical pro-life stance doesnt usually take into account the life of children after birth so there's that inconsistency. But there are good reasons.

I'm not too familiar with specific exceptions for incest. If you are thinking like an exceptions made specifically for "conensual incest between two adults that produces a healthy zygote in states where incest is legal" then there might be some latent eugenics influence.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Dorne is weird in the "Robert on the theone" scenario because they'd still be pissed but less so. In the books, they've been plotting against Robert since the rebellion, but this was totally scrapped for Sand Snakes bullshit. In show logic you either have to pick between them suddenly chilling out or Sand Snakes bullshit still happening, this time with Oberyn too.

I don't know what the fuck Renly was doing before we see him but he certainly never seems to give a single shit about his brothers. The Tyrells I see as total opportunists and they were originally loyal to Targs.

Robert probably goes nuts and tries to have Ned or Jon killed if he finds out about Jon, as Ned suspected he would all along. Jon stull has taken the black at this point, though, and no idea how his story goes with Ned still alive. Or how the Ned vs Cersei plot is resolved without Robert dying. Does Robert just have Cersei and Jaime executed?

I do want this AU spinoff now
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

It was already outed that Tommen was Jaime's son. The Tyrells didn't actually care, they just wanted the throne. They swapped teams from Renly to Lannister, they don't give a shit.

In that case I agree the Tyrells could have salvaged things if they dealt with Dorne. But things are kind of a wreck at that point.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ShatteredElysium posted...

Although Tyrell/Lannister could have worked if not for Cersei and if high sparrow was kept in check

Depends on if you count purging the lords of 4/7 kingdoms as working. Also completely destabilizing the Riverlands and the North as well. Tywin/Lannisters made a LOT of enemies.

Obviously things would be way better if Bobby B was on the throne but we can't have nice things. and you still end up with Dany/Dorne/Highgarden? against everyone else.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yeah, the switch eshop is honestly a mess. There's so much trashy garbage on there it's starting to rival Steam. And maybe PSN and Xbox have the same quality control issue, but unlike the other storefronts Nintendo's is completely garbage to navigate and filter stuff out.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I think you're confusing support for Daenerys's actions as a ruler within the fucked up moral framework of medieval society with actual condoning of her actions from a moral standpoint.

I mean in the North your lord can decide within fairness that you are disloyal and behead you. We're expected to view that as extremely honorable, in-universe. I feel that Jaime would have been executed as a POW if they didnt need him as a bargaining chip even before Cat freed him. I don't think keeping prisoners in the series is about humane conditions.

We are repeatedly shown that trials are complete farces either through lords just wanting you dead or, my favorite, getting two completely unrelated people to fight to the death to decide the outcome.

So if Dany's biggest flaw is that she is working within the established system of violence to try and obtain justice, I maintain that she really wasn't any worse and in some respects much better than other rulers. Until recently, obviously.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

one true king
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I'm not endorsing Hulu because I still hate using it, but that's why they have the cheap option and ad-free for a few more dollars per month. And since Netflix has slowly raised their sub price to match that plan (both around $12/mo unless you dont want HD), it now seems a lot more "fair."

This is an annoying era for streaming though
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I think that's the case. Rhaegar's death was bad but in retrospect it was more about showing Cersei's only chance was a sneak attack against a wounded dragon. Except...the sneak attack itself was stupid and nonsensical. But more reason to ignore it. Drogon has been pretty consistently been completely unstoppable. Maybe Jon can redeem his dragon scream-off and get to fight him.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Suprak the Stud posted...

The other weird thing about this scene is that Jaime doesn't leave until it sounds like Cersei has a chance to win. He doesn't march down when Dany leaves with two dragons and a fleet of ships. It isn't until that fleet is decimated and a dragon is dead and Sansa goes "oh looks like I won't see her executed" that he goes and takes off. At this point, Jaime has more reason to believe that Cersei will win than he has had at any point since the field of fire.

I took this as Sansa realizing that Dany is about to burn the whole fucking city down instead of taking it normally and having a formal execution. Which also explains why Jaime is suddenly rushed and thinks Cersei is about to die.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

They probably aren't going to change it much because they're gonna want people subbed to both Hulu and Disney+

Fun.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.