Lurker > HeroDelTiempo17

pyresword posted...

I don't think anything's "holding me back". It's that I'm unwilling to make the leap from "there's a good chance" to "yep, definitely". If I were forced to bet on one or the other I'd probably bet on Trump holding racist beliefs, but I still think that the available information we have is consistent with either hypothesis.

I mean this goes back to what I was saying earlier. If you think Trump doesn't hold racist beliefs and is primarily motivated by self-interest, then the explanation becomes he is merely deliberately performing racism (saying racist rhetoric in speeches, promoting racist policies, and targeting certain political opponents based on race) in order to appeal to racists as a political strategy. I think that's a dumb explanation. The alternative is that Trump is accidentally repeatedly performing racism, because he holds racists beliefs.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

pyresword posted...

I think the theory is that "racist" has become a buzzword in the eyes of American Conservatives, and when used by Liberals it looks bad because it seems like it's only trying to score political points rather than legitimate judgment.

I don't necessarily agree with the theory, but I believe that's the idea.

Edit: Or I should say--I actually do agree with the theory as presented here, but disagree with the notion that it's a fundamental limitation. (ie. You just have to say "he's a racist because X, Y, and Z")

Yeah I agree with both your theory and your conclusion that the solution is to just ignore the conservative viewpoint and keep talking about it. That's why it's frustrating.

Relevant article and quote:
https://www.politico.com/amp/story/2019/07/29/black-journalists-racial-politics-1440628

It is a myth that calling an action or speech or stereotype racist is an indictment of that persons soul, Herndon said at the BuzzFeed event. It is a myth that people have used to stop us from accurately describing words or actions or things that we know.

I think most Americans are vaguely against racism but there's a fundamental misunderstanding of what racism entails, so an earnest conversation should be beneficial.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

Who is CNN trying to capture in viewership? Liberals ain't gonna watch that and sure the hell conservatives aren't.

Apparently red is tho.

No this is part of the widespread liberal media strategy where you pretend that Trump being racist is a brilliant political play and that calling him a racist only serves to play into his diabolical schemes.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Does this have to do with the Senate resolution by one of the Montana senators that's literally just to condemn socialism?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Democrats...please learn something from 2016:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-sanders-does-better-with-independents/amp/

Independent doesnt mean Centrist, for one.

Adding to this, there was an interesting recent poll that showed several progressive policies were pretty reasonably popular with independents and moderates.

https://twitter.com/cascamike/status/1153502768851816449?s=19

In addition to what's listed in the tweet, gun control and public option healthcare are also very popular in those groups at over 70% approval. The GOP had better cater to the moderates' support of progressive policies if they want to win!
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Well then your energy might be better spent convincing the Democratic party to adopt leftist ideals or convincing the GOP that the progressive wing of the party has their back on their serious concerns of widespread government corruption in the political establishment.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I would hope anyone still concerned about Hillary's emails and potential corruption of the Democratic establishment would support progressive candidates like Bernie and Warren, who have stated that cracking down on corruption in Congress and the federal government is one of their top priorities. Or at the very least, that they wouldn't support Trump, who is one of the most visibly corrupt Presidents in recent memory.

But for some reason you dont see that very often. Strange.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

KCF0107 posted...

I've always found it funny, but the increasingly graphic and gratuitous violence has been a major turnoff.

This plus the fanbase is enough to make me feel bad about it. First two seasons were pretty special but it's increasingly moved in directions I don't like.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yeah let's fair. They can also be reasonable people who are in bed with racists et. al. but lack the self-awareness to realize this or see that as a problem.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

You're wrong, but even if you weren't, you have so much more in common with the pro-life side than the pro-choice side that the pro-choice side has no other option but to be completely opposed to you. Therefore it's disingenuous to complain you're treated like you're on the extreme. You can't enlightened centrist out of this issue other than having literally no opinion (which favors whatever the establishment wants).
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Honestly I'd prefer it if Nintendo just made more of their older stuff available in general. Outside of the "classic" systems, which kind of defeats the point of easy accessibility.

I do like seeing Paper Mario specifically get love for sure though.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Ok but you realize that is a typical pro-life stance, right?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

That is why I find it so funny when this vehemently argue against me so much in regards to abortion when I am far from an abortion hardliner and more towards the center on the issue, and I don't really find the issue a major one in which I consider when it comes to elections.

There isn't really a center on this issue. Your view is very clearly a "pro-life with some exceptions" stance which is the very same as many of the incredibly restrictive laws being passed. It is just slightly more accommodating than the very worst.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Corrik7 posted...

I have already stated I think abortion is.an acceptable choice of a mother if her life is at danger to have the pregnancy. So, the right of the child to life is not greater than the mother. But, it is greater than the "inconvenience" of life. Just because a child is inconvenient for your life doesn't make it right to be aborted when you consensually had sex and it could have resulted in a child yet you still did so, especially so when you didn't use proper prevention.

Right, so what you should be arguing is that life begins at conception or that the potential of additonal human life is more important than actual human lives. All this crap about responsibility doesn't matter because it's not the core of the diagreement. You're very concerned about the practical applications when the debate isnt actually about practicality. Example, you talk about "proper preventions" here. People could debate you on that, how people do take precautions and still get pregnant, how do you even enforce that, do you have to provide documentation of an attempt of prevention to get an abortion or do you have to just deal with it? It's all pointless though because that's not what your real issue is.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

That argument only works if you think the "right to life" of unborn persons is more important than rights of living persons. You have to establish that fetuses are more important than their mothers and fathers first.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Why is the anti-abortion debate always framed around "consequences" and "responsibility?" Why is having an abortion irresponsible and not an explicit consequence? Why is it considered responsible to have a child no one is adequately prepared to raise? How come there is a point in the chain of events where you should no longer exercise agency to prevent an outcome and should just accept the conclusion?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Not even to mention, the full quote is about how there are two kinds of Trump voters. The "deplorables" are irrational, immoral, and can't be reasoned with, but she was making it a point to understand and empathize with the other group and win them away from Trump. It was an argument for NOT demonizing all Trump voters. And this fits exactly with the mainstream opinion and the Democrat strategy of courting moderates and suburban types. The only difference is they refer to the "deplorables" as "Trump's base" and "the alt-right" and "white supremecists" because that's what they are.

Edit: I mean it was brought up but I meant the even larger quote it's from is just explicitly arguing FOR certain Trump voters
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I wasnt really considering release frequency as criteria for being a cultural "event movie." Though I do agree that kind of movie is much more popular and frequent due to Disney and Marvel and others cashing in on the blockbuster model, it's something that the OT obviously also did.

If you want to structure it around week-to-week serial viewing and the rise and fall of TV, sure. That's something I hadn't considered at all and is an interesting angle. But I'm not sure I agree. I'm was thinking "event of the summer" type movies when I said that.

Edit: saw the edit, yeah, it's different but I still think it's the same model. The frequency of them has just changed.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yeah I was referring to Empire and Jedi. Were those not massive blockbuster events?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

considering the OT were some of the earliest event movies, this is a frigid take
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

KokoroAkechi posted...

If you have to like put like 9001 things on pizza or edit it in a way where it does not really resemble what it's commonly accepted as a bsic pizza to enjoy it... I'd contend you dont actually like what pizza is at the core.

What does this mean? The core of pizza is bread, cheese, sauce. The toppings can be anything. The sauce doesn't even have to he tomato sauce. This is unnecessary pizza gatekeeping and a garbage take.

Do you also think people who like "craft" burgers don't actually like hamburgers?
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

They got blocked yesterday too, by a different senator. The GOP is just actively opposed to democracy at this point.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

yeah came in to say Jefferson
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I love the game but I feel that complaint. My biggest issue is that even with shortcuts and fast travel, the map still feels way too big for the speed you move through it.

And theres a sidequest where you gotta travel across it without getting hit, FUCK that.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

It's cribbing a lot from the Dark Souls style, which is pretty notorious for having a bunch of obscure shit that requires a guide or asking the community, which encourages this. Metroidvanias are kinda like this too, but maybe that's just my experience. I wasn't too put off by it, but I generally tend to use guides liberally when I'm stuck.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Race is a complicated social construct that includes many factors, including but not limited to physical appearance, genetic ancestry, cultural values, religion, and nationality. Application of these isn't even consistent when determining race.

It's most accurate to say Trump's comments were nativist, xenophobic, or simply bigoted, but this is why "racist" is also an acceptable shorthand.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

hey warren if you're lurking this topic tweet a pic with shoe on head

https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1151879130855747585?s=19
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Warren HAS called Trump racist in the past so it is kind of weird to see her dance around it now.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Alternatively, M4A as in Bernie's plan isn't Harris's end goal, and she's going to "settle" on a public option plan. I think Warren might be doing this too, and is a lot better at it. But both of them have expressed interest in both single payer and public option. But unlike Harris who can just make dumb claims like this and then settle later, Warren will have to put out an actually workable M4A payment plan to maintain her image before she settles.

And for the record, arguing from the left on this is the right "political" move but...man, Bernie is the only candidate who I think is 100% committed to single-payer.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Oh it gets worse because he also says that the "if you don't like America, leave" argument isn't problematic.

So it's "the President did not say this, but if he did, that's fine."
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I mean I thought some of Ragnarok's humor was forced but it was still better than almost the entire MCU. Great news.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

If the two-party system is gone, not a chance. If we still have it and Libertarians replace Democrats, probably. I think I have at least some common ground with them. But also in that scenario I'd be starting to give more serious thought to just leaving the country.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Hey you'd leave your kid behind too if your ex wanted you back and she's suddenly thick as hell
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Nrrr posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Speaking of which, I saw an article in the Guardian yesterday about how Beto O'Rourke has slaveholding ancestors. This is a horrible political hit job masquerading as journalism and is a classic example of why the mainstream media has no credibility these days. The Guardian is normally better than this, which is why I read them daily, but this was disappointing. Who cares if Beto had slaveholding ancestors 100+ years before he was born. What does that have to do with his candidacy?

Believe it or not, the Beto campaign is the one putting that story out there.

It's both, according to the article. The Guardian dug it up, contacted Beto, and he decided to roll with it and use his platform to tie it into his support for reparations.

And owning up to it is a great play but not only are people not ready to have this conversation but I don't think Beto is the one to lead it since he's so easily clowned on now that it's even more of a reason to ignore the discussion.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Here's some more "Democrats punching left" content for the fans of it in here

https://twitter.com/robdelaney/status/1150710792175652866?s=19

Putting aside the single payer vs public option divide, Biden's literally comparing the left-wing to Republicans because both want to supposedly want to abolish Obamacare.

gotta hate that there's still a good chance I'm voting for this clown next year
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

It is her fault insofar as she is complicit in the modern Democratic Party being the way it is, which shuts down all possibility of serious discussion about these issues.

"We should improve society somewhat."
"Yet you participate in society. Curious!"

Congratulations on making an argument that's impossible to engage with.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

It's highly suggestive...that Kamala Harris does not think Joe Biden is a racist. It certainly isnt her fault that people have such a poor understanding of racial issues that they don't understand how someone can not be "a racist" and still engage in racist behavior. Nor is it her fault that one of those people is Joe Biden. Also not her fault that people brush off discussion and education on real issues that affect policy as "identity politics."
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

red sox 777 posted...

I think it's because Democrats seem to choose their candidates by trying to find the most virtuous person, while Republicans want the most effective representative for them. Democrats have a hard time even getting to policy nowadays, because they spend so much time talking about identity politics stuff and it's so easy to sidetrack any real policy discussion with some baseless attack based on identity politics.

Chakrabarti's criticism was literally about someone voting on actual policies he deemed as supporting a racist system. So was, for example, Harris calling out Biden. These are not personal attacks and are in fact policy issues.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Neither of you guys have heard of that one Republican guy, President, very famous for using Twitter constantly to insult people?

That guy is such a coward, he doesn't even tag the accounts of the people he's insulting. He even gives them stupid nicknames to make it harder to search.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Alanna82 posted...

There are other things that have changed on me (Jiffy peanut butter, I assumed Jif was a brand name change

This is definitely because of Skippy peanut butter and people combining the two. When I read "Jiffy peanut butter" I immediately pictured the wrong name on the Skippy logo. Actually thought it was a real brand at first.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Great example of how capitalism forces people and governments to make unethical choices to maximize revenue. They should divest, as the article notes there are calls to action for and some groups and banks have already complied with. Also, people in charge of setting policies that have made investment in private prisons more lucrative should be removed from office.

Thanks for bringing this issue to attention, the article is very informative.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Common decency is treating people how they want to be treated but when they aren't around you say they aren't real women, apparently.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

I mean a real actual fact is that biological sex is distinct from gender identity
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Nrrr posted...

I'm familiar with the copaganda that follows literally every major negative story about police, yes.

Oh the joke is absolutely for propaganda, I just assumed people were taking the headline at face value. Sure.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

But those cops are literally making a joke about a viral video
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

CelesMyUserName posted...

It's fucked up how restrained and supportive AOC & co have been to her yet Pelosi can never resist tossing them under every bus she sees. Meanwhile progressives always take the brunt of the blame for divisiveness or being too angry.

I thought the fight AOC and the Squad started by voting against the House border bill was a weird fight to pick but Pelosi's dismissive response to it was really bad. Especially when a pot more Democrats ended up opposing the Senate bill that was passed, against what Pelosi wanted, it validates AOC's concerns.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Yes. But in the name of equality and fairness, conservatives will be banned from using the services funded by it. Access to government healthcare and public education will require mandatory and automatic voting for liberal candidates.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Lopen posted...

Anyone who disagrees with you on anything, even if they agree with you in general, is some sort of bigot and the majority of the world can't possibly be bigots, therefore the disagreeing voice must be wrong because their viewpoint is driven by non-acceptance, and of course they're also in the minority. Even people who are liberal like me are often considered 'the enemy' because they're just not liberal enough.

I never said you are a bigot, I just think you are uninformed on this issue and are trying to take a nonsensical moderate position. This is ironic, because you are explicitly arguing that people be more informed on trans issues, and that trans people aren't informed enough. You pointed to liberal movements providing unrealistic expectations, and I explained that these support groups do engage in the education you apparently want them to do. This would be obvious if you were informed on the matter.

Lopen posted...

I am saying they don't. But here's the thing: Trans people are not special in this regard, just more extreme than most. There are life changing decisions everyone faces, and no one ever fully understands them until they do them. Something as simple as moving to a new place where you don't know anyone can do a number on someone relative to the price they thought they were willing to pay, and can even drive people to suicidal thoughts.

Here you acknowledge that trans people face "extreme" struggles that "no one ever fully understands until they do them." You argue that being more prepared would reduce suicide risk. I am arguing that not only is this already happening, but the trauma itself is the biggest contributing factor and not the lack of "preparedness" that you yourself have admitted can only go so far.
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.

Oh and of course the main point that I completely forgot is that the idea that trans people dont understand the issues they themselves experience is a galaxy brain take
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DPOblivion was far more determined than me.