Lurker > Very_Unreliable

Samurontai posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Are we going to pretend we haven't been indoctrinated to capitalism since we popped out of the womb?

No; commercials trying to coerce you to buy things isn't exactly the same as the indoctrination into communism that is required. Human beings create a barter economy when left alone which eventually evolves into capitalism. Communism has to be forced on a population.

When left alone, humans steal, murder, and rape each other. Does natural mean better?

Yeah, without extensive government humans revert to autocracy and barbarism, not capitalism. The vast majority of human society has not been "capitalism" by modern definition.

I love the ever moving goal post of a leftist's argument.

What is this "modern" definition lol? (aka just a nebulous definition that fits your argument) it's like arguing with a 12 year old.

"Capitalism is an economic system based upon private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Characteristics central to capitalism include private property, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsistence_economy

"A subsistence economy is a non-monetary economy which relies on natural resources to provide for basic needs, through hunting, gathering, and subsistence agriculture. "Subsistence" means supporting oneself at a minimum level; in a subsistence economy, economic surplus is minimal and only used to trade for basic goods, and there is no industrialization.[1][2]"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_economy

"Traditional economy is an original economic system in which traditions, customs, and beliefs help shape the goods and the services the economy produces, as well as the rules and manner of their distribution. Countries that use this type of economic system are often rural and farm-based. Also known as a subsistence economy, a traditional economy is defined by bartering[citation needed][dubious ] and trading. A Little surplus is produced[citation needed], and if any excess goods are made, they are typically given to a ruling authority or landowner.

A pure traditional economy has had no changes in how it operates (there are few of these today). Examples of these traditional economies include those of the Inuit or those of the tea plantations in South India.[1] Traditional economies are popularly conceived of as "primitive" or "undeveloped" economic systems, having tools or techniques seen as outdated.[2] As with the notion of contemporary primitiveness and with modernity itself, the view that traditional economies are backward is not shared by scholars in economics and anthropology.One example of a traditional or custom based economy is Haiti."

Just a quick primer so you're not using nebulous terms.

I love when condescending nitwits Ike TC get fucked in their own topics

ew whats your problem.
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RyuGigas

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Fam_Fam posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Are we going to pretend we haven't been indoctrinated to capitalism since we popped out of the womb?

No; commercials trying to coerce you to buy things isn't exactly the same as the indoctrination into communism that is required. Human beings create a barter economy when left alone which eventually evolves into capitalism. Communism has to be forced on a population.

When left alone, humans steal, murder, and rape each other. Does natural mean better?

Yeah, without extensive government humans revert to autocracy and barbarism, not capitalism. The vast majority of human society has not been "capitalism" by modern definition.

I love the ever moving goal post of a leftist's argument.

What is this "modern" definition lol? (aka just a nebulous definition that fits your argument) it's like arguing with a 12 year old.
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RyuGigas

I've noticed that communists see human beings in a very negative light. Very very nihilistic people.
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RyuGigas

Fam_Fam posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Are we going to pretend we haven't been indoctrinated to capitalism since we popped out of the womb?

No; commercials trying to coerce you to buy things isn't exactly the same as the indoctrination into communism that is required. Human beings create a barter economy when left alone which eventually evolves into capitalism. Communism has to be forced on a population.

When left alone, humans steal, murder, and rape each other. Does natural mean better?

I think that's a fallacious statement. I think when left alone human beings also will punish those responsible for those crimes, without a government enforcing it.
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RyuGigas

Pogo_Marimo posted...

Are we going to pretend we haven't been indoctrinated to capitalism since we popped out of the womb?

No; commercials trying to coerce you to buy things isn't exactly the same as the indoctrination into communism that is required. Human beings create a barter economy when left alone which eventually evolves into capitalism. Communism has to be forced on a population.
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RyuGigas

Garioshi posted...

are you even trying

Why do new users always argue this way?

"are u even tryin xD"
"ur dum"
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RyuGigas

You're not different or cool for being into communism you're only a useful idiot.

Jeez I see a lot of self-proclaimed "communists" on this board.

I have read the primary school book report that is the manifesto and the mess of what is the ramblings of a man who does not understand even basic economics; das kapital.
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RyuGigas

Mike Rowe penis?
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RyuGigas

^ Why would you do that?
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RyuGigas

I'm going to ramble.

Of course they were; I mean in every facet certainly there was GROSS oppression; not just in the USA, but in every nation whereto black slaves were brought. In Haiti, Africans after overthrowing French slaveowners established a nation, and in their revolt they destroyed ALL of their infrastructure in red blooded anger, but still won a legitimate military victory, and no colonial nation would recognize their legitimate existence as a nation; and France offered to ratify their nationhood in exchange for Haiti paying 2 billion dollars in reparations to the French economy for the destruction of roads and sugar/coffee plantations during their revolution, effectively re-enslaving them, these reparations were paid... Much later Americans backed an anti-communist dictator Duvalier, who oppressed the people so much, and threw them into gulags basically, causing the best and most talented and educated citizens to flee the nation. Furthermore after the very horrible earthquake some years back, the Clintons and their foundation, in charge of the BILLIONS of dollars of relief that private citizens around the world donated as well as corporations and nation states, squandered VERY clearly, most of the money, it is clear very much so, that none of the money has gone to the Haitians in any real capacity, and there are some pretty alarming accusations against the foundation and their handling of the funds.

I don't know a single republican who rejects the idea that black people have been very very oppressed in history, I do know that the republicans I am familiar with, believe the oppression continues but is pretty clearly defined along party lines, the title of oppressor belongs to the Democrat. Today, the Democrat I feel is the oppressor by and large, that isn't to deny that there is racism on both sides, but the party that is the most guilty of oppressing blacks in history in this country all the way to present, are the democrats. There are myths of party shifts, but it is a convenient explanation that doesn't fit with what is clearly oppressive behavior today by that very same party.
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RyuGigas

Check out this PROUD militant breaking stereotypes.
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RyuGigas

bump
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RyuGigas

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RyuGigas

I really like that quote lol
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RyuGigas

bump just looking for opinions
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RyuGigas

Do you think that if we /all/ had at least some semblance of a solid origin story and knew our family's history and had solid concrete records no matter how volatile the history; we may curb some racial and ethnic tensions in this country?

This is really more specifically about Americans who have been here for a while... But can easily apply to anyone.
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RyuGigas

Another Christian bashing thread.

But Christians aren't lambasted on the regular, or persecuted...
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RyuGigas

Is Henry Cavill that dude who was in Tudors?
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RyuGigas

He probably also believes that the Egyptian civilization was run by people who looked like Don Cheadle, and that Flavor flav's ancestor actually discovered American and started the Olmec first precolumbian civilization..
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RyuGigas

EndOfDiscOne posted...

Unless you're transphobic there should be no distinction

That's disgusting. You're transphobic if you make a distinction? You need to fix yourself.
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RyuGigas

thrashmetal14 posted...

Sleeping with males makes you not straight by default

I agree; that was my position but this is how he told me to phrase the question.
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RyuGigas

robellr13 posted...

Sephiroth1288 posted...

What sort of oppression do you believe black people are subject to in the US (assuming you're in the US)

Systemic.
Opportunities.
We have to work twice as hard if its not controlled by us.

That's just nonsense. You can be summarily dismissed as a human being.

Enjoy your advantage in hiring quotas and admission into higher education institutions.

Yuck. Boring.
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RyuGigas

I haven't but someone argued with me today that it's WAY more common than I think, and I argued that it was so infrequent that it was barely quantifiable.
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RyuGigas

FLUFFYGERM posted...

Wait are you paying $500 per year for a smartphone?

He just basically admitted that.
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RyuGigas

Work out?
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RyuGigas

Dragonblade01 posted...

I've made my position on #cakegate pretty clear, but I don't think a business should have a right to refuse service to someone for reasons unrelated to the service itself, with "exception" (though it's arguable that it even is an exception) given to issues related to services which require some form of artistic expression from the provider.

That's pretty spot on.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

MutantJohn posted...

The point about the bakery was that no business should be able to discriminate against traits that people are born with

Youre right, but theres no point in arguing with a troll. Despite his claims of not being Christian, its pretty clear that hes nothing more than a shill whos saying that to create an illusion of impartiality.

^ hey look an unnecessary attack on someone who disagrees with you.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

MutantJohn posted...

The point about the bakery was that no business should be able to discriminate against traits that people are born with

Theres no point in arguing with a troll. Despite his claims of not being Christian, its pretty clear that hes nothing more than a shill whos saying that to create an illusion of impartiality.

Dude you're just an angry kid. Whatever, poison the well all you want. I'm not Christian, I was raised moderately Christian, this is the truth, I mean it just fits your stupid childish lazy narrative a lot easier if I were your image of a dumb Christian southerner.

At the very least it would give you an excuse for the shit youre spewing. Maybe you are just naturally that way, but thats even sadder tbh.

I didn't say anything to attack you until you started doing that, you're the one who's clearly angry, I said nothing hateful at all

Except you did in the very last post you made before this one. Im not arguing any more though - its clear that facts and reason have very little bearing on your positions, making this an exercise in futility.

You've been attacking me the entire time lil boi.
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RyuGigas

MutantJohn posted...

There's a difference between wanting a Satan cake and attempting to buy a cake while being gay

Yeah there is. A christian won't make a satan cake, but will make a cake for a homosexual no problem. A Christian won't make, however a cake for a homosexual that says "Tom & Tim's super gay wedding 2018" or a cake for him that says "satan iz #1".
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RyuGigas

Wow how terrible that in this country you can FREELY decide whether or not to give your money to someone.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

MutantJohn posted...

The point about the bakery was that no business should be able to discriminate against traits that people are born with

Theres no point in arguing with a troll. Despite his claims of not being Christian, its pretty clear that hes nothing more than a shill whos saying that to create an illusion of impartiality.

Dude you're just an angry kid. Whatever, poison the well all you want. I'm not Christian, I was raised moderately Christian, this is the truth, I mean it just fits your stupid childish lazy narrative a lot easier if I were your image of a dumb Christian southerner.

At the very least it would give you an excuse for the shit youre spewing. Maybe you are just naturally that way, but thats even sadder tbh.

I didn't say anything to attack you until you started doing that, you're the one who's clearly angry, I said nothing hateful at all.
Keep on living that way; your whole opinion is boring and played. you're boring.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

MutantJohn posted...

The point about the bakery was that no business should be able to discriminate against traits that people are born with

Theres no point in arguing with a troll. Despite his claims of not being Christian, its pretty clear that hes nothing more than a shill whos saying that to create an illusion of impartiality.

Dude you're just an angry kid. Whatever, poison the well all you want. I'm not Christian, I was raised moderately Christian, this is the truth, I mean it just fits your stupid childish lazy narrative a lot easier if I were your image of a dumb Christian southerner.
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RyuGigas

MutantJohn posted...

The point about the bakery was that no business should be able to discriminate against traits that people are born with

I mean that's fine, and if we're going with the lady gaga philosophy on whether or not people are born that way; a gay man asking for a cake at a bakery should be fine as long as that cake isn't a cake that breaks what they believe are the tenets of their religion. That bakery would be fine in not making a cake that says "666 satan rulz" either by that same token. It's their religious freedom to own that business without being forced to break the tenets of their religion, and it's easily compatible.

And it shouldn't even be an issue, it's only for the purpose of antagonizing that bakery owner, since you can just truck over to Wegmans.
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

If I'm gay, and I wanna be married, and I go to a Christian bakery for my cake, and they don't want to make it, I go to a different bakery, and more than likely with business practices like that the Christian bakery will go under, that's how capitalism works. But I believe in freedom of association. That Christian may very well believe that participating in that exchange might send them to hell, which is in my opinion silly and wrong, but he or she should have the right to practice that part of their religion, you don't have a right to their labor, they're not aggressing on anyone. Now if that same person assaults someone for being gay, then they go to jail... What's so difficult?

joke opinion.

Joke human.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

The reason its considered acceptable to protest and make fun of Christianity in America is because theyre the only organized religion with any appreciable power. Jews and Muslims have no real power here and arent trying to force their archaic beliefs on the rest of us through legislation.

In addition, Jews and Muslims often face real, tangible persecution here. You know, the kind that Christians like to pretend they deal with. Thats another obvious reason that shitting on them even more is frowned upon.

Being the majority religion in this country does not come with "appreciable power". This country is a democratic-republic with freedom of worship and a separation of church and state that I think works very well. The government is not persecuting any religion; what however is happening is the fashionable social-griefing of Christians. What /federal/ legislation are powerful Christians forcing through?

Surely you arent really this clueless. Christians have been pushing for religious freedom acts at both the state and federal levels. Their effect is to allow Christians to freely discriminate against gays and other groups they dislike, all under the guise of religious freedom.

Heres a little primer for you in case you really are that uninformed:
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/101250064

"Freely discriminate against gays"

You should probably clarify there...

If I'm gay, and I wanna be married, and I go to a Christian bakery for my cake, and they don't want to make it, I go to a different bakery. More than likely with business practices like that the Christian bakery will go under, that's how capitalism works. I believe in freedom of association. That Christian may very well believe that participating in that exchange might send them to hell, which is in my opinion silly and wrong, but he or she should have the right to practice that part of their religion, you don't have a right to their labor, they're not aggressing on anyone. Now if that same person assaults someone for being gay, then they go to jail... What's so difficult?
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

This country is a democratic-republic with freedom of worship and a separation of church and state that I think works very well

the evangelicals want a theocracy

Great, hate them then. Criticize them, don't however, lump all Christians in with a group that is very clearly fringe (and tiny).

hahahaha.

fringe when they make up half the Christians in the country

No man; You're talking about all evangelicals? I thought you meant fundamentalists. There needs to be a distinction. Evangelical movement is largely benign and also part of the reason we ended slavery. Fundamentalists, are the new guys who might actually believe in sending homosexuals to camps, and yes that's fringe.
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

Maybe persecution is a strong word;

hahahahahaba

Are you laughing because I'm willing to compromise? I'm still trying to make a point.
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

This country is a democratic-republic with freedom of worship and a separation of church and state that I think works very well

the evangelicals want a theocracy

Great, hate them then. Criticize them, don't however, lump all Christians in with a group that is very clearly fringe (and tiny).
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RyuGigas

Maybe persecution is a strong word;

It is entirely acceptable to paint all Christians as members of the westboro baptist church or whatever caricature critics choose. The same cannot be done without severe backlash to any other religious group. These are facts. These /ARE/ the reasons I feel a Christian may believe they're persecuted, moreover dude, if a group more in the minority felt persecuted and you didn't feel they were persecuted you wouldn't berate them for feeling that way, but you will with Christians.

This real, evident bigotry.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

The reason its considered acceptable to protest and make fun of Christianity in America is because theyre the only organized religion with any appreciable power. Jews and Muslims have no real power here and arent trying to force their archaic beliefs on the rest of us through legislation.

In addition, Jews and Muslims often face real, tangible persecution here. You know, the kind that Christians like to pretend they deal with. Thats another obvious reason that shitting on them even more is frowned upon.

Being the majority religion in this country does not come with "appreciable power". This country is a democratic-republic with freedom of worship and a separation of church and state that I think works very well. The government is not persecuting any religion; what however is happening is the fashionable social-griefing of Christians. What /federal/ legislation are powerful Christians forcing through?
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RyuGigas

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

ThanksUglyGod posted...

It's socially acceptable to make fun of Christians because most of the people doing the ridiculing either are or were raised Christian.

I was too; that doesn't make the mainstream sanctification of their ridicule okay, unless that is held for everyone likewise.

It is

Women ridicule women
Black people ridicule black people
Gay people ridicule gay people
Jewish people ridicule Jewish people

If you are no longer a Christian... then you're not a Christian. So it then becomes

Non-Christians ridicule Christians
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Gamer99z posted...

It's literally fake news that insecure religious people call out when presented with facts that conflict with their beliefs or who feel entitled to have their beliefs regurgitated by everyone.

Oh no, someone is actually separating church and state and taking a nativity scene off government property!
Oh no, some cashier at Target said Happy Holidays.... HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
What the fuck, my coffee cup they I never pay any attention to isn't clearly supporting my preferred religious holiday!
Oh my God! Some biologist is trying to get evolution taught in schools!
What the hell, the government is letting men marry men and women marry women? What's next, they're coming to take my bible and force me to be gay?
Some politician running isn't a Christian? Our nation was built on Christianity, they hate America and want to erase my religion!

This, so much. Its absurd that Christians can take things like these and twist it into them being persecuted. Well said, Gamer.

I mean here you go again
"Christians are doing this!"

Which Christians? All of them? Most of them even? No. Mainline protestants and Catholics make up the overwhelming bulk of Christians in this country and most of them (over 70%) are fine with homosexual marriage.
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RyuGigas

Gamer99z posted...

It's literally fake news that insecure religious people call out when presented with facts that conflict with their beliefs or who feel entitled to have their beliefs regurgitated by everyone.

Oh no, someone is actually separating church and state and taking a nativity scene off government property!
Oh no, some cashier at Target said Happy Holidays.... HAPPY HOLIDAYS!
What the fuck, my coffee cup they I never pay any attention to isn't clearly supporting my preferred religious holiday!
Oh my God! Some biologist is trying to get evolution taught in schools!
What the hell, the government is letting men marry men and women marry women? What's next, they're coming to take my bible and force me to be gay?
Some politician running isn't a Christian? Our nation was built on Christianity, they hate America and want to erase my religion!

Some people have these beliefs. None of them are why I say Christians face a peculiar amount of ridicule and imo persecution in this country.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

They dont have the same ability that they previously had to marginalize and discriminate against anyone whos not a straight conservative Christian. In their minds, that equals persecution.

Wow you have an amazing super-power. You can read minds. and you've collected some pretty astonishing data there.

Christians feel as if they're persecuted; I believe, because it is perfectly fine, i.e no mainstream social backlash, to completely minimize their belief system and make jokes of them, but the same cannot be done to other religious groups without staggering reprisal and huge backlash.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe all the pushback that you call persecution is a result of your kind trying to legislate your morality and worldview on the rest of us?

Christians want creationism to be taught as being equal to science with actual evidence, like evolution. They want to ban women from having any say over their pregnancy. They want to be able to freely discriminate against others simply on the basis of their sexual orientation. Thats why people are pushing the fuck back.

"Christians want"
"your kind"

These are generalizations that would be socially intolerable if directed elsewhere. Christianity is one of the most (if not the most) factionalized religions ever; Catholics vote overwhelmingly democrat, and honestly the fact is with each post my point is being made more evident.

I'm not Christian btw, not everyone who reasonably defends this point of view is going to be Christian.

Whatever you have to tell yourself to feel better, I guess. Youd have to be delusional to claim that a vast majority of Christians wouldnt be in favor of any of the things I mentioned.

Despite plenty of vocal opponents, Christians are absolutely catered to more than any other large group in America. This persecution complex is fucking ridiculous.

No no no no no no.

Address the very factual point I made. You've made a couple of nebulous statements which is very typical of someone who is /wrong/. Catered to how? You qualified the statement with my point, making my point, plenty of vocal opponents; vocal opponents on TV regularly, however vocal opponents of for example Judaism would never be tolerated. Generalizations that you've made repeatedly, would NEVER be tolerated like I said. You have a chip on your shoulder w regards to Christianity and that's why you can't be reasoned with.
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

president wants to ban muslims?

"it's the Christians being persecuted!!!!!!11"

That's false though.
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RyuGigas

ThanksUglyGod posted...

It's socially acceptable to make fun of Christians because most of the people doing the ridiculing either are or were raised Christian.

I was too; that doesn't make the mainstream sanctification of their ridicule okay, unless that is held for everyone likewise.
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

"people are saying mean things about Christians bawwww"

"suck it up liberals Trump says mean things"

why nobody likes Christians

Just replace some nouns in there and you'll get suspended. Very quickly.
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RyuGigas

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

ilovuuu posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

ilovuuu posted...

the victim complex is insane.

"I don't get to bully gays and now people are standing up to me"

"it's CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION"

Do you understand the hypocrisy? Do you know what the proper treatment of a homosexual is in other select religious groups that you dare not insult?

deflection to Islam.

the Christian apologists only argument.

"b-b-but muslims"

ignore all the evil shit Christians do in America and focus on people halfway across the world...

Wait... Did you just suggest Muslims don't live in the US?

1 percent of the population of the US is Muslim and they are less anti-gay than our evangelicals.

So to you; Evangelical or Jehova's witnesses = Christianity and all Christians.

Because; frankly man, you couldn't have picked a smaller sample if you tried.
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RyuGigas

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

Very_Unreliable posted...

0AbsoluteZero0 posted...

They dont have the same ability that they previously had to marginalize and discriminate against anyone whos not a straight conservative Christian. In their minds, that equals persecution.

Wow you have an amazing super-power. You can read minds. and you've collected some pretty astonishing data there.

Christians feel as if they're persecuted; I believe, because it is perfectly fine, i.e no mainstream social backlash, to completely minimize their belief system and make jokes of them, but the same cannot be done to other religious groups without staggering reprisal and huge backlash.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe all the pushback that you call persecution is a result of your kind trying to legislate your morality and worldview on the rest of us?

Christians want creationism to be taught as being equal to science with actual evidence, like evolution. They want to ban women from having any say over their pregnancy. They want to be able to freely discriminate against others simply on the basis of their sexual orientation. Thats why people are pushing the fuck back.

"Christians want"
"your kind"

These are generalizations that would be socially intolerable if directed elsewhere. Christianity is one of the most (if not the most) factionalized religions ever; Catholics vote overwhelmingly democrat, and honestly the fact is with each post my point is being made more evident.

I'm not Christian btw, not everyone who reasonably defends this point of view is going to be Christian.
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RyuGigas