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BK_Sheikah00 committed a cute and pop genocide of love against the gurus! Kyaa~

The reason Vanille works with Protester Power (and ironically isn't rosterable when her Peacetime super Protester Power is in effect) is because she's rosterable coming into war and isn't retroactively made unrosterable or requiring a paydown by an upkeep increase-- just gets an increase in required slots.
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I'd personally lean towards both being reasons Neclord can't be stopped.
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Though for what it's worth I would call "being a merc's assist" different than "making a merc rosterable" too so even if you didn't agree with that.

Basically I don't wanna dawdle on exactly why as I'm not an admin, but I'm pretty sure one of those things would get around Protester Power.
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Technically Neclord's ability is used on the week previous and is a Results ability not a Peacetime ability which puts it outside the scope of Protester Power even ignoring the other potential snags but that's just how I see it.
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I choose MID
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The Mana Sword posted...

FFTCG has been out here since October!

I am aware! I have a couple of decks for it, even! I'm just saying I hope it "makes it" as in "remains profitable enough that they continue to print it for us" cause yeah I know in Japan the thing has had like 5 years of cards or something-- would be nice to see it last that long here.

Cause man the things are kinda rare as is-- I'm assuming it's a Wii kinda thing where they just have been underproducing (can't imagine the costs are too high they don't even need to hire artists or anything, just gotta localize) but it's kinda disconcerting.
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Uh questions. What set did you start playing in and what was your favorite block.
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Hell yeah Final Fantasy TCG. Best new card game of the past 15 years. Really hope it makes it over here.
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Gundammike posted...

Pooky's only claim to fame is his hiring of a good script writer for the 90's Fox cartoon.

Ain't it the truth. I still like Apocalypse overall cause of that cartoon-- granted this is largely cause I haven't read enough X-Men he's actually in to know any better but yeah that was great stuff.
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BK_Sheikah00 committed a cute and pop genocide of love against the gurus! Kyaa~

Yeah rules guru gravy is correct on Yojimbo.
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Tell me who to drop and you can't pick Corrin
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Meter is basically to symbolize in anime fights why dudes don't open fights with their strongest attacks. But a particularly desperate situation they might.
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An adrenaline pumping cutscene is never really an argument for or against building meter-- like the situation gives her the overdrive meter to do it. Like you've got street fighter characters leading with supers in a lot of cutscenes too, doesn't mean you should discard the idea of meter.

You want conclusive proof against the meter argument you'd want a scene where she's spamming them.
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We should just give it to Bub and scrap her.

Maybe list Bub as a Sith Apprentice.
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Your answer for why she was bought, and why she's in this match at all, is because she used an ability to make Samus get stabbed by a lightsaber and slowly bleed to death. Same as every other match she's been in but I felt it easier to just not roster Samus and argue for my boy Wrex instead. (who as it turns out I feel is actually more useful than Samus for this particular scenario, funny how that happens, but you know)
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Well I personally think "stock sith" is kinda interesting to argue so I won't fault it too much

Just... not in this match in particular, where she's kinda outclassed on both sides several times.
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FFD is right

With quality control this merc probably straight up doesn't exist cause there's not enough material

That being said Luis priced her at 4 upkeep which... seems about right (maybe a bit high but her abilities are good) for stock sith, and has argued her to that effect as well, so... yeah, I don't see an issue with just running with that.
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Wanglicious posted...

if that answer is still Luis then well, alright, i got nothing to that

Bingo.
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Depends entirely on the cutscene placement and length and how good or bad the standard control scheme is but I generally agree with Para here.
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I think the general assumption is if there was something to know about Jaesa, we would know, and it's burden on Luis to let us know if there's anything. I'm treating her as stock Sith Apprentice given the information available on her and the game setting she's from, as well as Luis's lack of hype for her (he would've dug something up if there was anything worth digging up-- she's been in a few matches now), and well, that bar ain't super high.
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That being said I kinda think Bass ganking Flynn would be the more sensible action anyway-- if you've got an assassination skill it's just more sensible to use it on a backline fighter like Flynn than a melee who's probably getting dealt with by Wrex anyway and she marches right into his Shotgun (which, amusingly, is one of the best weapons to use against a Jedi as it's literally impossible to deflect all the buckshot-- pretty sure this comes up in some random non-canon EU book even).
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They are yeah.

I didn't say they can cause of that excerpt, just that I can't definitively in good faith say they can't. I don't think it really comes up ever-- I'd still lean no though cause yeah why would a clone trooper be undetectable while a droid is. Wouldn't be terribly consistent.
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Blade the Series, King of the Hill, and Dexter
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Actually correction on the force being bad at sensing robots apparently Luke uses it on 3PO in a random EU book which is enough to give me doubt-- I wonder what the actual official lore is on this. I still suspect it's crummy vs droids for the same reason it's crummy vs clone troopers, but yeah.

Anyway like, even, assuming, Jaesa can sense it to dodge it-- is she even fast enough to? Bass is moving very quickly here. Like, you can know death is coming and have precisely no action to use against it.
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He's invisible, moving super fast, and is a damn robot which aren't as easily sensed by the force.

It's an impressive amount of credibility to give a template Jedi without a reason to, or frankly even Flynn, to dodge it.
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Thing is she's from a game where Jedi and Sith aren't exactly on this mighty pedestal. There are plenty of Jedi and Sith in training-- and yeah, lots of em aren't great for much other than having a Lightsaber. Burden of proof is kinda on the lore there to prove she's a big deal, because in that setting "random Sith" ain't really worth a ton.

Also I don't really see Bass having a need to run. With the huge HP boost, immunities, and two allies capable of full heals, and the absurd speed he's moving at, he's probably not going down before the CD comes back up, even if he's fighting particularly recklessly-- especially since the main offense on the other team is probably out for half of his CD due to stasis.
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Like the big problem here is that, I see the fight going something like this:

Wrex stasis on flying murder girl, then suppressive fire-- potentially lethal suppressive fire-- kinda underselling it as this is potentially lethal to Flynn and Jaesa.
Bass kills someone with his opening burst, probably Jaesa or Flynn depending on enemy formations. Rikku continues to apply hastes/etc to the party as everyone gets fully buffed, Yu heals while Rikku is buffing.

Eventually there's a paradigm shift where Rikku shifts to the healer with her full heal to all, and Yu swaps to a debuffer. This should be enough to bring down Dizzy.

The enemy team doesn't really have a lot of counterplay for this-- Flynn needs to fill too many roles at once-- if he's trying to explode Bass (and as KJH said his Life Aura should suppress his weakness till it's brought down-- so this is overall a mistake to attempt, his app may be the doom of him here) then he can't heal, and his team is kinda grossly outgunned while Dizzy is frozen.
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Jaesa best I can understand it from my brief looking into her should be taken as the bog standard lowest level Sith-- she's basically in the game as a romance option and early game plot point, no real strong characterization on fighting style or feats to speak of. Sith Apprentice kinda speaks to her proficiency as well-- she's a fairly low level learning Sith. Like if you need a random hand who has a lightsaber and some basic force proficiency, yeah, cool, but I wouldn't expect her to pull any heroics by herself. Basically like, I envision her as Empire Luke at the top level-- but again this isn't with much authority, just with what I could dig up without trying too much.

As for Bass's phase walk, see no reason why he could only do it once. Cooldown is 36 seconds, which while difficult for Lilith to survive, Bass is so meaty here getting another one off isn't too unreasonable.
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Honestly internally I hadn't been thinking of debilitate as opposite Luster Candy but I guess it is, so yeah that's pretty good too particularly after Flynn is down.

Also while Dizzy's top end stuff is that strong that doesn't automatically extend to her lower end. Generally the high level super attacks are more than a few levels above their standard attacks and I frankly don't think Dizzy's presented as someone who is one shooting with normals.
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I think assuming no wind up or charge times or meter requirements based on that text is kind of a jump. Particularly because it contradicts every showing of her big attacks in the games.
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I'm not saying Dizzy isn't powerful just that the majority of her high end stuff isn't terribly relevant in a mercs battle cause of the scale and other limitations like terrain, personality, and the telegraphed nature of her really big stuff.
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Regardless of whether it's Gamma Ray or not (I'm pretty sure it is, just maybe a souped up one) there is still the question of how relevant it is in an actual fight since as I said the windup is real and the terrain/situation/personality (she's not full pacifist but she's still Dizzy) don't really facilitate her big attacks.
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GANON1025 posted...

I bigger GG expert can probably answer this better, but I believe there is enough story/lore showings to show that Dizzy outside of fight game mechanics can shoot of things like that without the need to charge meter, or even charge at all. What stops her from going all out, as I understand it, is her personality in some of the games.

Not on that level, really. Dizzy has a lot of Word of God hype and the fact that she held off an army of gears for a while as her big things. As far as 'effortlessly destroying mountains with impunity' it's less clear. Like I said it's an Instant Kill -- it's not completely infeasible to the point of being laughable like Bridgets's since Dizzy does get hype as pretty powerful but it shouldn't be taken as hard evidence even if she would try gamma ray in the fight, which she probably doesn't

I also think that despite huge destructive power tagging Bass with gamma ray is basically impossible with his speed and its windup time.
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GANON1025 posted...

I'm not sure if this has been posted here, but: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkrTslVbgas&feature=youtu.be&t=52s

That is something Dizzy can do without really trying, and without wanting to hurt someone. If she actually wants to kill the other team, I think it's over. Dizzy used to have a problem where her personality got in the way of her power, but in spite of what that move shows I believe the actual story mode shows Dizzy much more willing to use her power against adversaries if it is to help her friends or teammates. Question is, is that motivation enough for her to go all out though?

The problem with that in an actual fight:

1. In am actual fight Gamma Ray has a lot of windup/Telegraph time, knocks Dizzy on her ass, and is a hyper/instant kill meaning it can't be used easily or frequently
2. It's unclear whether that should be taken at face value. Guilty Gear Instant Kills are always a bit ridiculous. Bridget for example, someone who's bottom tier in Guilty Gear power level, literally throws someone into the moon.
3. As menu said terrain isn't great for it.
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Drakeryn posted...

Bass - Power Charge (next physical attack does 250% damage)

+250% just to be clear, so 350% total. Which yeah doubled is 600% or 1225% depending on how you take double buffs.
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The other cool thing about Bass here is he has a Kirby style moveset fitting Lilith. What that means exactly is up to interpretation, but at minimum I would give him Phasewalk, Lilith's trademark move, which would allow him to move even faster, turn invisible, and unleash a nasty phase blast upon exiting the walk. Seems perfect for making that 6x (or 12.25x) attack hit home in a HUGE way.
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Maybe. Depends how you interpret the language.

I consider haste to be +100% speed. Doubling the potency of the buff would be +200% speed, or a tripling. Idea being that you don't add the base params that are being doubled again.

But like, if you take it to mean "it's like he gets buffed twice and the buff is laid upon the buffed form" well then Bass would get quad speed.

For the record he'd also get 12.25x damage from Power Charge if you take it that way so I highly encourage that interpretation! (though I feel like that's beyond overkill level damage over 6x over anyone that's not Dizzy anyway so...)
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Negan also inundates the reader with his presence for a solid 50 issues, unrelentingly present. That might sound like a weird reason to dislike a character, but it makes sense if you read a series that paces and plots itself into a variety of shorter story arcs, rarely sitting still for more than 20 issues. Hell, even the prison rotated in villains from time to time. Negan is just fucking here. If you read a series where Darkseid was the only villain, you'd get tired as well.

Oh, jeez

Looks like I was right to drop the series then since I thought this guy was overstaying his welcome with even one season and you're telling me he should have a longer lifespan than your normal villain of the season if it's true to the comic.
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Keep in mind also that "agility" in the SMT series isn't really the same as haste. It affects initiative, turn order, accuracy. It doesn't give you extra turns like haste does.

Bass is still gonna be way the hell faster than anyone here. The agility based kaja from Luster Candy might make it so they can react a bit better to him (though even at max Kaja rank of 3 I think it's 160% as opposed to the doubling of speed (tripling on Bass) on haste) but he's still going to be outspeeding pretty hard.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Isn't buffs lasting three turns a Persona-only thing? I thought they lasted until dispelled in SMT.

I suppose this is actually true

Why is this series inconsistent

I don't think it matters as the buffs out of Rikku's team are better and the duration is "long enough or also infinite" but duly noted
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The problem with taking out Yu and Rikku is you need to ignore the imminent threats to do so.

Considering Bass has a double potency haste and super strong opening attacks (which, arguably, depending on how you interpret personas in real time given P4Arena's intepretation of them, Power Charge can be constantly reapplied by Bass's persona while he's still fighting at full potential) he's not someone who can simply be ignored to assassinate the healers, particularly since you don't have any particularly great assassin on your team up to the task.
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I think "buffed Dizzy" is a bit inaccurate to the match.

First of all, let's go back to the premise that they start fully buffed (acknowledging that the SMT buffs used by Flynnonly last 3 turns in game)-- a sensible formation would have Rikku further to the back since 1. She's a supportive unit here. 2. Her new BFF won't shut up. But consider that Neptune isn't going to be constantly wailing like a Siren and probably just talking-- I mean she's gonna be slightly loud and energetic but still she's not like a "HEY WE'RE HERE" beacon. Like say they start 30 ft behind their party members, that's a 30 ft further out that Neptune's yapping has to catch the ears of the enemy team. Considering walls, what little noises Selvaria's team itself is making. It's not a gimme that all the buffs are gonna be dropped.

Secondly, as said, Stasis on Dizzy is gonna chew a lot of the time on her buffs in particular, and Flynn probably isn't very long for this world to reapply them.

Realistically it's going to be unbuffed Dizzy vs buffed Bass and Wrex sooner rather than later.
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I don't think Mega gets one shotted by warp blades, no.
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What is Dizzy "ridiculously durable" based on, exactly. In game she actually has one of the lowest life totals and I don't believe she actually tanks anything of note in the plot. Lot of damage, yes. Extremely mobile, yes.

Also keep in mind that SMT buffs are not super long duration. When Dizzy gets out of Stasis her buffs are probably mostly expired.

And I think you're underestimating the effect of double HP. Saying Flynn is more durable than Yu with double HP is audacious to say the least. I would probably put it at Bass > Wrex > Dizzy > Yu > Selvaria > Rikku > Flynn > Jaesa.
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Yeah I think Mega Man has enough tricks in his toolkit to fight the invisible guy, and he'll figure it out eventually with 3 tries.
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Wrex shrugs it off when he gets a full hp heal from Yu, who really doesn't have to do much but be a full time healbot to win this battle, unlike Flynn who needs to do several things.

Meanwhile when Bass retaliates with two 600% damage laser shots, the target is dead and full heals don't matter.
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Also for what it's worth stasis pretty much never works like a status ailment in a game. Like even when it's not clear stasis, esuna doesn't work on stop for instance.

Although maybe flynn thinks it is esunable and uses a full heal before his team is heavily damaged and wastes time, you never know.
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Salvation is a full party heal, the problem is there's a lot more burst damage coming out of my team and your guys are a lot less durable. So you get a lot less mileage out of it.

That and I have two full healers and you only have one who is also argued to be pinpointing weaknesses and buffing on top of that.

Flynn is overloaded here is kinda the problem. He can only do so much.
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I don't think any sort of ambush is going to be very good. Yes they'll hear them coming, but if they launch "ambush attacks" it's likely going to be into the super tanky stamina tablet'd Wrex or Bass as they would be taking point. If they wait for them to pass by for whatever reason they're probably spotted because as said they're not really a stealthy lot.
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