Current Events > Does homophobia get us a Platner bigotry bingo?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jagus posted...

I would just like to remind you there are seriously dumb ppl on the internet

I have seen ppl defend the war on terror as america had to respond somehow (even if the 2 countries werent the 9/11 funders)

Bernie doing this likely means endorsements from the Squad are coming. And most progressive publications will follow suit. a number are already doing it

LightSnake posted...

This would be the equivalent of progressives supporting a Scott Lively devotee or KKK member. Look at the guy calling opposition to this as "pearl clutching."

That "pearl clutching" shit was really offensive.

But US general elections really are fucked up because of the 2-party system.

E.g., Westboro Baptist (D) vs. generic Republican in a general election. I still vote D, because Republicans, especially after Trump, are just that much of a menace.

Quality control in D primaries is essential to avoid travesties like this hypothetical.

EPR-radar posted...

That "pearl clutching" shit was really offensive.

But US general elections really are fucked up because of the 2-party system.

E.g., Westboro Baptist (D) vs. generic Republican in a general election. I still vote D, because Republicans, especially after Trump, are just that much of a menace.

Quality control in D primaries is essential to avoid travesties like this hypothetical.

The Dems aren't nominating Westboro Baptist Church members, though...I fully acknowledge the slower walk on LGBT rights, but since 2012, the Dems have become among the most pro-LGBT parties in the world.

The most prominent progressive politician in the country who has defined himself as the moral center of the movement just gave carte blanche to this. It is very hard to articulate the feeling of immense betrayal right now.

LightSnake posted...

The Dems aren't nominating Westboro Baptist Church members, though...I fully acknowledge the slower walk on LGBT rights, but since 2012, the Dems have become among the most pro-LGBT parties in the world.

The most prominent progressive politician in the country who has defined himself as the moral center of the movement just gave carte blanche to this. It is very hard to articulate the feeling of immense betrayal right now.

This by Sanders is awful.

I've been skeptical of Sanders for some time, so I don't have any marked feeling of betrayal. "What would be different if Sanders were a ratfucker?" etc. etc.

And a whole chorus of Sanders mini-mes are going to propagate this Nazi (or indifference to Nazis) shit, because that's just how things are on social media. Up to and including "pearl clutching" ITT.

EPR-radar posted...

This by Sanders is awful.

I've been skeptical of Sanders for some time, so I don't have any marked feeling of betrayal. "What would be different if Sanders were a ratfucker?" etc. etc.

And a whole chorus of Sanders mini-mes are going to propagate this Nazi (or indifference to Nazis) shit, because that's just how things are on social media. Up to and including "pearl clutching" ITT.

Honestly, it's been a full day of the gloating and posting the Platner poll from these people. Him doubling down, the loud support and the serious lack of condemnation from far too many groups.

The largest progressive veterans group was just "lol who cares"

The whole lying your ass off until you get elected is the elephant in the room. If there were more safeguards to mitigate that risk, then we'd have options.
I'm definitely soured on Platner until his actions and recent history clearly show that he's progressive and anti-nazi.

He's still running as "anti-establishment" though, so I don't think it's an indicative of that much for the democratic party if he wins.

Sansoldier posted...

The whole lying your ass off until you get elected is the elephant in the room. If there were more safeguards to mitigate that risk, then we'd have options.
I'm definitely soured on Platner until his actions and recent history clearly show that he's progressive and anti-nazi.

He's still running as "anti-establishment" though, so I don't think it's an indicative of that much for the democratic party if he wins.

Sansoldier posted...

The whole lying your ass off until you get elected is the elephant in the room. If there were more safeguards to mitigate that risk, then we'd have options.
I'm definitely soured on Platner until his actions and recent history clearly show that he's progressive and anti-nazi.

He's still running as "anti-establishment" though, so I don't think it's an indicative of that much for the democratic party if he wins.

He had an SS tattoo for twenty years. He lied about it. Tbqh, there's no coming back from that for me. His refusal to abandon this run and his endless tripling down is a red flag.

We're risking a Democratic tea Party movement in the worst ways. Christine O'Donnell, Sharron Angle, and Ken Buck cost the GOP three very winnable seats

Sansoldier posted...

The whole lying your ass off until you get elected is the elephant in the room. If there were more safeguards to mitigate that risk, then we'd have options.
I'm definitely soured on Platner until his actions and recent history clearly show that he's progressive and anti-nazi.

He's still running as "anti-establishment" though, so I don't think it's an indicative of that much for the democratic party if he wins.

My concern is that if progressives continue to have no quality control and the mainstream continues to slow-roll essential reforms, that sets the stage for a really ugly abandonment of all principles. A Trump of the left who takes from the filthy rich only to reward their cronies would be no good.

EPR-radar posted...

This by Sanders is awful.

I've been skeptical of Sanders for some time, so I don't have any marked feeling of betrayal. "What would be different if Sanders were a ratfucker?" etc. etc.

And a whole chorus of Sanders mini-mes are going to propagate this Nazi (or indifference to Nazis) shit, because that's just how things are on social media. Up to and including "pearl clutching" ITT.

Ive seen just as many libs have fallen so far that theyre now working with a nazi to do trans genocide comments as Ive seen libs are terrified of someone destroying their beloved neoliberal establishment comments.

I'm so disappointed in Bernie continuing to support him.

Sam Seder from the majority report was indirectly defending Platner too and that was also disappointing, he's usually better then that

I feel like this is really testing a lot of the online left. We get accused of purity testing a lot but we need to have SOME standards.

Personally, the choice is between a possibly recently reformed neo-nazi or Susan fuckin Collins. I'm gambling on the possible recently reformed neo-nazi. Like I get everyone's concerns and we need standards but I rather get rid of Susan Collins now and then possibly this guy later.

Tora_Sami posted...

Personally, the choice is between a possibly recently reformed neo-nazi or Susan fuckin Collins. I'm gambling on the possible recently reformed neo-nazi. Like I get everyone's concerns and we need standards but I rather get rid of Susan Collins now and then possibly this guy later.

If Platner wins yes, but the current primary election is between Mills and Platner.

El_Dustino posted...

If Platner wins yes, but the current primary election is between Mills and Platner.

Then I'm going for Mills for sure. While I do believe in redemption, I rather go for an established Dem then a gamble. I think if the guy keeps his views after losing, that will be the true test if he has truly reformed. But I feel y'all now. He is just way to recently reformed and that history is.... Yeah, I don't believe it yet. Though I do have hope.

So like, I'd be much more comfortable giving Planter a shot if he did something like State senator for a while and built up a verifiable track record of progressive voting. i really do not want to see any more Fettermans or Sinemas which I think is the most likely scenario with Platner.

El_Dustino posted...

I'm so disappointed in Bernie continuing to support him.

Sam Seder from the majority report was indirectly defending Platner too and that was also disappointing, he's usually better then that

I feel like this is really testing a lot of the online left. We get accused of purity testing a lot but we need to have SOME standards.

This, frankly, is driving some of this resentment. When speeches to Goldman Sachs is unacceptable but Nazi tattoos are excusable

El_Dustino posted...

I'm so disappointed in Bernie continuing to support him.

Sam Seder from the majority report was indirectly defending Platner too and that was also disappointing, he's usually better then that

I feel like this is really testing a lot of the online left. We get accused of purity testing a lot but we need to have SOME standards.

I think the left/dems are just hurting so desperately for good orators/self presenters that many are willing to look past legitimate issues just to be able to feel like we're being heard.

One could play devils advocate and say that Platner's checkered past might appeal to some on the right/not full blown MAGA, but I do agree that without some standards then what are we exactly?

Its not really helping that Mills is being purity tested out. One of the most successful and leftward Democratic governors literally be condemned for

votes she literally never made. Like nobody actually believes Janet Mills has facilitated genocide. Nobody

LightSnake posted...

Its not really helping that Mills is being purity tested out. One of the most successful and leftward Democratic governors literally be condemned for

votes she literally never made. Like nobody actually believes Janet Mills has facilitated genocide. Nobody

Yeah this is the other half of why people like Platner can be appealing. They own that they're not perfect and don't give a shit if you think they are or not.

I'm not supporting Platner but I can easily see why long time online leftists are falling in line behind someone like him because they're tired of everyone who might be good on paper constantly being purity tested out of 'votability'.

And honestly if your concern is that either Platner or Mills are going to (directly or indirectly) enable genocide is it worth turning off voters with standards by constantly shitting on them as if they've already personally been killing people?

You can have standards, but don't let your standards enable you to let those without to vote in someone with no concern for human life or rights.

See, the issue is I don't really buy Platner "owns he's not perfect." He concealed this. He keeps lying about it. He tried to make staff sign NDAs.

There's more and it's probably gonna come out.

LightSnake posted...

See, the issue is I don't really buy Platner "owns he's not perfect." He concealed this. He keeps lying about it. He tried to make staff sign NDAs.

There's more and it's probably gonna come out.

That's fair.

He's ex-military though and we generally don't give a shit if people fully like us.

Also that comment was made in mind with him owning, if distancing, his online comments. He didn't deny making them, just claimed he'd grown since.

I'll give him the online comments, even if he didn't fully disclose things about them.

But the SS tattoo? Not a chance. He deserves ultimate condemnation for that. He 100 percent lied about it

Tora_Sami posted...

While I do believe in redemption...

Sure, but we've got racism atop misogyny atop homophobia atop antisemitism. I believe a person can grow from any of these. I'll be gracious enough to say a person can grow from all of these combined, as Platner would have us believe he's done. But the initial response to the tattoo was to lash out at those for whom the tattoo is a red flag, which doesn't suggest growth.

I think the risk is too high. You could accidentally be putting a blackwater right-winger Nazi into power. I feel its naive to take the gamble.

people CAN change, and if he did, Im glad. But he shouldnt be given power for safety reasons.

Jagus posted...

I think the risk is too high. You could accidentally be putting a blackwater right-winger Nazi into power. I feel its naive to take the gamble.

people CAN change, and if he did, Im glad. But he shouldnt be given power for safety reasons.

Yeah, he'd be a case where it'd require a bulk of evidence of active, continuous and ideally selfless (no perceived gain to be had) support of the things he's said he's changed his mind on. Or unambiguous condemnation of/advocacy against (Neo-) Nazis/anti-semetism and other issues to make it clear where his beliefs currently lie.

apparently one of the groups just found this guy off a video and recruited him for this run with zero vetting

Has Smashingpmkns finally stopped supporting Platner?

Nah., he's too busy strawmanning anyone who objects to Platner leaving the Totenkopf on his body for two decades as "thinking he's a secret Nazi" and that anyone who complains about it as "pearl clutching."

I doubt he was a nazi. That said it's very clear he's an idiot and unfit for public office. White Privilege truly blinds people even so called allies. I'm not willing to take a chance with a guy who is too stupid to realize he has a nazi tat.

I see no reason to doubt he was a nazi sympathizer at some point. The reddit thread just confirms it

I'm just curious how many people in this thread actually live and vote in Maine to generate so many threads on the guy.

Im just bored man lol. Its nice to focus on politics without trump for once. This is a fascinating train wreck. I feel bad for mainers

Dio posted...

I doubt he was a nazi. That said it's very clear he's an idiot and unfit for public office. White Privilege truly blinds people even so called allies. I'm not willing to take a chance with a guy who is too stupid to realize he has a nazi tat.

see I dont think he was a Nazi. But he knew what the tattoo was. Its been straight proven at this point. Even if we doubt Jewish insider reporting on his friend saying he knew, his political director straight up said it and theres a Reddit thread where he absolutely knows what the totenkopf symbol is

LightSnake posted...

see I dont think he was a Nazi. But he knew what the tattoo was. Its been straight proven at this point. Even if we doubt Jewish insider reporting on his friend saying he knew, his political director straight up said it and theres a Reddit thread where he absolutely knows what the totenkopf symbol is

It'd be one of those "Nazi supporters were/are Nazis too"

Given you believe having a Nazi symbol tattooed on your body as supporting Nazis.

Which I wouldn't blame anyone for ascribing to either of those lines of logic.

I will mention to remember that people are complicated and rarely neatly fall into our prescribed boxes for grouping.

God knows what people from both sides of the political aisle would box me in as, simply for (continuously) serving my country and that's without any tattoos.

Call me crazy but i think the dude with the ss tattoo who has made tons of right wing comments and worked for blackwater was likely a nazi at some point (assuming he isnt one still now)

Dio posted...

I doubt he was a nazi. That said it's very clear he's an idiot and unfit for public office. White Privilege truly blinds people even so called allies. I'm not willing to take a chance with a guy who is too stupid to realize he has a nazi tat.

This.

We don't need to purity test everything, but I think unless he had been fully distanced from the rhetoric and tattoo for 10+ years, it's far too much a red flag to even consider.

wackyteen posted...

Given you believe having a Nazi symbol tattooed on your body as supporting Nazis.

Which I wouldn't blame anyone for ascribing to either of those lines of logic.

I will mention to remember that people are complicated and rarely neatly fall into our prescribed boxes for grouping.

.........What.

Yeah, people that get Nazi tattoos sure are complicated about why they got a Nazi tattoo, I'm sure.

HashtagSEP posted...

.........What.

Yeah, people that get Nazi tattoos sure are complicated about why they got a Nazi tattoo, I'm sure.

I could buy him getting it by accident because he saw it in a tattoo catalog and just though it looked cool, but mixed with his comments and everything I seriously doubt he didn't know now...

For once I agree entirely with LightSnake. Even if we assume Platner has genuinely abandoned his past abhorrent opinions and actions and should now be accepted as a decent person (and, from what we've seen, that would be an extremely generous assumption), it's far too much baggage for him to be accepted as a viable progressive politician.

If you get a nazi tattoo and it takes 20+ years before you "realize" it's one.

The MOST CHARITABLE interpretation is that you're an absolute fucking dumbass that has no place in politics whatsoever.

But there's reason to believe he was aware what that tattoo meant so...

Don't know why anyone would willingly keep a nazi tattoo on them unless they themselves agreed with them on more than a few matters.

I'm also finding his wife pretty suss, given she presumably has seen him with his shirt off many times and never thought too deep about the Totenkopf

Umbreon posted...

If you get a nazi tattoo and it takes 20+ years before you "realize" it's one.

The MOST CHARITABLE interpretation is that you're an absolute fucking dumbass that has no place in politics whatsoever.

But there's reason to believe he was aware what that tattoo meant so...

Don't know why anyone would willingly keep a nazi tattoo on them unless they themselves agreed with them on more than a few matters.

Or you don't care if anyone thinks you are a Nazi when they see the tatoo.

Smashingpmkns posted...

You'd hear much worse at a service job tbh. Dude was a Marine so this seems fairly tame compared to how most military people speak. If his policies are pro-LGBTQ+ then idc.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/a56ade06.jpg

Apparently he was a part of this group that taught far left activists how to properly use guns safely.

and theres no such thing as antifa huh...

Just like there is no war in ba sing se

https://x.com/IAPolls2022/status/1981746544891027651

Pre or mid tattoo blowup but after the reddit stuff

Zero_Destroyer posted...

https://x.com/IAPolls2022/status/1981746544891027651

Pre or mid tattoo blowup but after the reddit stuff

.....yeah, I'm sure this is a legit polling firm totally on the level....

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/738aadd3.jpg

Resident_Hill posted...

and theres no such thing as antifa huh...

Just like there is no war in ba sing se

That image is teh SRA. Or is anyone you don't like Antifa huh?

LightSnake posted...

.....yeah, I'm sure this is a legit polling firm totally on the level....

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/738aadd3.jpg

What what I can find NRSC is usually 3-4% off in favor of Republicans when it commissions or makes polls and the UNH poll conducted mid-reddit Scandal shows a similarly hefty lead. I figure another week and we'll have the score on it.

I'm not sure we should trust the NRSC polling Democrats for obvious reasons.

Shamino posted...

Or you don't care if anyone thinks you are a Nazi when they see the tatoo.

Why would you not care if people think you're a Nazi when they see your Nazi tattoo if you don't agree with the Nazis?

HashtagSEP posted...

Why would you not care if people think you're a Nazi when they see your Nazi tattoo if you don't agree with the Nazis?

That was my point, he didn't care if he was lumped in with Nazis