Current Events > Fog of war maps on higher difficulty modes of Fire Emblem games

(+) Yeah! (+)

The literal worst.

The neat part is that fog of war is always bad, at any difficulty :[

Fog of war is probably my least favorite feature in Fire Emblem because it rarely adds any strategy to the map.

It mostly just encourages slow, ultra-cautious gameplay and turtling. Which is like the least fun or dynamic FE playstyle. Fog "strategy" ends up just being deploy theives and bring torches. Then put your bulkiest units up front to bait enemies out of the fog so you can kill them next turn. So fun.

Three Houses is particularly egregious as it doesn't give you a torch staff, the one item that actually allowed more aggressive plays during Fog maps.

But hey, I guess its still better than Thracia.

Desert maps are almost as bad, though at least there flyers dont get affected and you can at least see the enemies. FoW is awful for every class.

"*sigh* He's right behind me, isn't he?"

Battle Before Dawn on HHM probably takes the cake for worst Fog of War Fire Emblem map. As Green Units (that need to survive to get the Gaiden Chapter + 1 that has to survive to beat the Chapter period) that you can't control are almost equally a terrible mechanic, together they make for a horrendous chapter.

-It's possible for the RNG to screw over Jaffar and he dies before you have a chance to back him up.
-If Nino takes damage, she will flee before using an item to heal. She can run right into Ursula's (the really powerful chapter boss) Bolting Range and will get killed instantly.
-Trying to rush too fast to save either of them risks getting ganged up on by too many units, which can get a unit killed.
-Zephiel (the guy who has to survive but you wish he didn't to prevent the horrible events preceding FE6 from happening) also gets killed by a Hero unit early on if you don't get a unit to him fast (Turn 6 is when he starts getting attacked IIRC).
-Maxime (a sub-boss) also has absolutely insane stats on this difficulty. Just...no other unit got a stat boost as large as he got. Just damn.
-The biggest f*** you to the player is Ursula's AI though. She won't move for most of the Chapter. However, she will move starting Turn 13 without any warning or prompting. Hopefully a surprise Bolting or Elfire won't lead to you suddenly losing a unit like has happened for a lot of players (myself included). Hope you don't mind losing two hours of progress!!!

Both FE5 (which doesn't even let you see map terrain) and FE6 also have some nasty FOW maps, but I don't remember any of them being as bad as Battle Before Dawn. Lots of FE5 (late game) is oddly enough warp skipped (even in a not speed run) so the latter ones aren't that bad (god help the person who plays 24X blind though) and FE6's FOW maps mostly let you play at a slow pace if you want.

Just for fun, I asked ChatGPT...

What is the worst Fire Emblem map that uses Fog of War?

Arcadia Fire Emblem: The Binding Blade
Debilitating design combining:
Fog of War
Desert terrain
Escort mission
Hidden tiles in sand
Reinforcements and Manaketes
One of the most infamous maps, frequently named the worst map in the series

So the Desert Chapter in FE6. I mean, you will need to open up a web browser to know where the treasure is, and you need a plan for Wyvern reinforcements, but it isn't too bad, particularly on repeat playthroughs.

Battle Before Dawn in FE7 has issues that don't get much better even having played it. I say it is worse.

Reinforcements that act on the same turn they arrive without warning are the worst
Especially when they spawn next to your softies and just one shot them

I don't mind Battle Before Dawn actually giving you incentive to go fast a whole lot but my God it went way too far in that direction

Also Maxime is like that since he accidentally was set to gain levels like a generic enemy instead of a boss. Awful.

I don't need to fuck the environment with ChatGTP to tell you that Arcadia is absolute cheeks. Like Battle Before Dawn can screw you with shitty roles, but the map itself is only technically difficult the first time you do it and don't know where Ursula is. Once you do, it's pretty trivial to bait her into Bolting you and then killing her, which stops all reinforcements and makes the rest of the map very easy. I would actually argue it's one of the few maps that is actually harder on EHM than HHM as Ursula'a position makes her a lot more annoying to kill and Jaffar's tendency to move up rather than right makes Zeph more likely to die.

Arcadia is just the the worst kind of slogfest Sand+Fog is awful and made worse by a bunch of FE6 wyverns and Cecilia and Sophia practically make the map an escort mission. Even if you know exactly what to do the map is just wildly tedious.

HeeathLivesOn posted...

Reinforcements that act on the same turn they arrive without warning are the worst
Especially when they spawn next to your softies and just one shot them

I remember one chapter in a 3DS FE playing on maniatic and some pegasus woudl spot to the side of the map, covering the entiore middle section and then moving instantly and attacking as reinforcements making me lose a ton of time, next time you bet your ass I was preparred.

Ragequit Lord of the Lake. I had 9 pulses but I just got fucking mad. Didn't even make a bookmark.

Srk700 posted...

Desert maps are almost as bad, though at least there flyers dont get affected and you can at least see the enemies. FoW is awful for every class.

Average reaction to desert/fog/swamp maps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuKlxQjZxWQ
At least STRs can be kind of heart-pumping challenging with planning on replays.

3-6 in radiant dawn is one of FEs most iconic chapters because of the fog of war. Nothing like a tiger barreling out of the shadows to two shot every unit in your army on hard mode. The tension is so good

battle before dawn sucks because jaffar surviving before you get units down to him is all rng. FE is an rng series but having 0 control or input at all just sucks. Stuff like fe6 chapter 14 is too many tedious mechanics all at once so it sucks too. Chapter 17 (sacae) has great tension because of the fog so even if its frustrating at times I think its an awesome chapter

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Ragequit Lord of the Lake. I had 9 pulses but I just got fucking mad. Didn't even make a bookmark.

I haven't played Three Houses in like five years, and I feel like seeing the words "Lord of the Lake" unlocked a repressed memory
(It was repressed for a reason)

Battle Before Dawn will always make think of Europe, lol. I was on Summer vacation with my family for a month in Europe, and I had my GBA SP with me. It was my first time playing through EHM, and I got to that mission at the beginning of the trip. After countless tries during bus rides, train rides, and down time before going to bed, I finally beat that map a few days before our flight back to the US. I would switch it up at times and play Mario Kart Super Circuit to have a more relaxing gaming experience, lol, Battle Before Dawn was brutal.

HeeathLivesOn posted...

Reinforcements that act on the same turn they arrive without warning are the worst
Especially when they spawn next to your softies and just one shot them

I still laugh at the Second Battle of Gronder (Azure Moon/Verdant Wind) in Three Houses on Maddening. Use Warp/Stride to attack Bernie on the hill Turn 1 and this will trigger reinforcements to immediately spawn right near your starting location. I had my Dancer, Healer, and maybe a third unit killed on Enemy Phase Turn 1. Just...wow.

Rantman posted...

I don't mind Battle Before Dawn actually giving you incentive to go fast a whole lot but my God it went way too far in that direction

Also Maxime is like that since he accidentally was set to gain levels like a generic enemy instead of a boss. Awful.

So it was essentially a programming error? I wasn't aware of this. But yeah, what I've dug up confirmed what you said.

Compsognathus posted...

I don't need to fuck the environment with ChatGTP to tell you that Arcadia is absolute cheeks. Like Battle Before Dawn can screw you with shitty roles, but the map itself is only technically difficult the first time you do it and don't know where Ursula is. Once you do, it's pretty trivial to bait her into Bolting you and then killing her, which stops all reinforcements and makes the rest of the map very easy. I would actually argue it's one of the few maps that is actually harder on EHM than HHM as Ursula'a position makes her a lot more annoying to kill and Jaffar's tendency to move up rather than right makes Zeph more likely to die.

Arcadia is just the the worst kind of slogfest Sand+Fog is awful and made worse by a bunch of FE6 wyverns and Cecilia and Sophia practically make the map an escort mission. Even if you know exactly what to do the map is just wildly tedious.

Even though Ursula is easy to deal with on repeat playthroughs, everything else like Jaffar/Nino's survival is based on RNG. If you got to the point you can defeat Ursula, then you are past that. Generally prefer to keep her alive for the exp (the map doesn't end if she dies), but yeah, the RNG stuff is annoying, and Maxine can still be difficult to deal with.

As for Arcadia, I agree it is a slog, but it never really requires you to rush even if you want the Gaiden Chapter. Use fliers to kill the annoying stave users and deal with the wyverns as you slowly follow the Red Arrow around from the picture below. You have time to get treasure as well during your slow lurch toward the throne (25 turns is the generous limit to get the Gaiden chapter). None of the reinforcements are all that threatening. Even the Berserkers are slowed down by the sand so you have a head start. You can avoid most of them and deal with them on your own terms. Also bring a restore stave to deal with any status (one silence stave user and one sleep stave user). Not much too it. Chapter 7, for instance, is honestly harder in the same game with all the stuff it throws at you at once when your team is much less OP.
https://www.fireemblemwod.com/fe6/guiafe6/ENG_cap14.htm
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e7f28dfc.jpg

Deej posted...

I haven't played Three Houses in like five years, and I feel like seeing the words "Lord of the Lake" unlocked a repressed memory
(It was repressed for a reason)

Unless you are doing the map in Crimson Flower (and thus can't use Edelgard/Hubert, who you are likely using), the map isn't that bad. You want to knock one-two life bars off Indech before you hammer him with all your units at once. Just about every other big boss, you usually can defeat all of their life bars in a single turn. Not a big deal with Indech though.

Redoing Legend of the Lake, but I'm looking up where the fucking archers are.

Compsognathus posted...

But hey, I guess its still better than Thracia.

Dunno what that was in Thracia, but it sure wasn't fog

Yeah FoW and reinforcements are two mechanics I loathe in FE games. Especially when your last unit kills an enemy and it triggers mass reinforcements so the enemy's turn starts with a bunch of guys right up in your face ready to kill everyone <_<

Thracia's 'fog' not even allowing you to see the map's terrain was completely nuts. After those nightmares, every single other FE fog map I've played feels easy.

The insane teleport tile shenanigans on the last one was especially hell beyond hell. The first time through Arcadia and Battle Before Dawn were jokes compared to my first time through that map. I still curse it when I'm reminded of it.

Charged151 posted...

Even though Ursula is easy to deal with on repeat playthroughs, everything else like Jaffar/Nino's survival is based on RNG. If you got to the point you can defeat Ursula, then you are past that. Generally prefer to keep her alive for the exp (the map doesn't end if she dies), but yeah, the RNG stuff is annoying, and Maxine can still be difficult to deal with.

I just don't consider needing to maybe reset on like turn 2 to be that much of a burden. You aren't losing all that much time. If Jaffar survives the first two turns, he and Zeph are almost guaranteed to live. By turn 4 Ursula is dead and reinforcements will end. Then it's mostly just light clean up work finishing off the remaining enemies and opening chest. Maxine is also completely optional. There is zero reason to have any of your units go to the left side so you can completely ignore him. But if you do want to fight him you'll have like 10 turns to take him as safely as you like.

I don't think Battle Before Dawn is a particularly well-designed map but even with the RNG of it all it just isn't anywhere near as anti-fun as Arcadia. And I think the fact that it gives you options like quick killing Ursula and having Maxine be optional gives the player a lot of player choice and more skill expression.