Current Events > Ahead of Trump Putin meeting, Vance says the US is done funding Ukraine

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hivebent4life 08/12/25 3:47:53 AM #1:	https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-russia-trump-putin-vance-b2805117.html Working to strengthen Putins position prior to negotiations --- ~Hivebent4Life 3DS FC: 5069-3910-2647 <cite>hivebent4life posted [p:986068823] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-war-russia-trump-putin-vance-b2805117.htmlWorking to strengthen Putins position prior to negotiations </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 08/12/25 3:56:26 AM #2:	It really is sickening --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:986068859] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>It really is sickening </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Trelve 08/12/25 4:01:53 AM #3:	That money will go to America's greatest ally instead, Israel. <cite>Trelve posted [p:986068874] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>That money will go to America's greatest ally instead, Israel. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SecretBase 08/12/25 4:04:29 AM #4:	I think the president, and I certainly think that America, were done with the funding of the Ukraine war business. We wanna bring about a peaceful settlement of this thing, we wanna stop the killing. Unpopular position but I really don't like the idea of endlessly funding a war with no win condition in sight. Either spending needs to ramp up to the point where Ukraine can actually beat Russia, or focus needs to shift to truce negotiations. The current protocol keeps up the civilian/conscript deaths in perpetuity, probably to cynically "weaken Russia" as if that foreign policy goal is worth innocent people being left to the grinder. --- Sorry. Not sorry. <cite>SecretBase posted [p:986068880] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote><quote>I think the president, and I certainly think that America, were done with the funding of the Ukraine war business. We wanna bring about a peaceful settlement of this thing, we wanna stop the killing.</quote>Unpopular position but I really don't like the idea of endlessly funding a war with no win condition in sight.Either spending needs to ramp up to the point where Ukraine can actually beat Russia, or focus needs to shift to truce negotiations. The current protocol keeps up the civilian/conscript deaths in perpetuity, probably to cynically "weaken Russia" as if that foreign policy goal is worth innocent people being left to the grinder.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rika_Furude 08/12/25 4:10:39 AM #5:	SecretBase posted... Unpopular position but I really don't like the idea of endlessly funding a war with no win condition in sight. Either spending needs to ramp up to the point where Ukraine can actually beat Russia, or focus needs to shift to truce negotiations. The current protocol keeps up the civilian/conscript deaths in perpetuity, probably to cynically "weaken Russia" as if that foreign policy goal is worth innocent people being left to the grinder. I agree to an extent. I don't think the solution is to stop funding Ukraine. The solution is to stop Russia, whether that means instead of drip-feeding Ukraine over years they get more up front to keep up the pressure, or direct involvement since Russia is a hostile nation and needs to be confronted. The US don't see it as a conflict that needs ending, nor do they care about Ukraine as victims of a hostile invasion. They cared for the war as a testing ground for weapons, intel and tactics and they've probably gotten their moneys worth by now. <cite>Rika_Furude posted [p:986068900] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>SecretBase posted... </cite><quote>Unpopular position but I really don't like the idea of endlessly funding a war with no win condition in sight.Either spending needs to ramp up to the point where Ukraine can actually beat Russia, or focus needs to shift to truce negotiations. The current protocol keeps up the civilian/conscript deaths in perpetuity, probably to cynically "weaken Russia" as if that foreign policy goal is worth innocent people being left to the grinder.</quote>I agree to an extent. I don't think the solution is to stop funding Ukraine. The solution is to stop Russia, whether that means instead of drip-feeding Ukraine over years they get more up front to keep up the pressure, or direct involvement since Russia is a hostile nation and needs to be confronted. The US don't see it as a conflict that needs ending, nor do they care about Ukraine as victims of a hostile invasion. They cared for the war as a testing ground for weapons, intel and tactics and they've probably gotten their moneys worth by now. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hivebent4life 08/12/25 4:13:12 AM #6:	I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more. --- ~Hivebent4Life 3DS FC: 5069-3910-2647 <cite>hivebent4life posted [p:986068907] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Sayoria 08/12/25 4:23:47 AM #7:	Ukraine needs to learn how to suck Putin's dick like we do and just accept the resurrection of the USSR. Stans, Baltics, you are next. --- Japanese Crack: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5pzggr <cite>Sayoria posted [p:986068939] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Ukraine needs to learn how to suck Putin's dick like we do and just accept the resurrection of the USSR. Stans, Baltics, you are next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Rika_Furude 08/12/25 4:30:02 AM #8:	hivebent4life posted... I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more. conceding crimea isn't how it would have ended. russia would stay their hand for a time and then press on. as it stands, russia is an existential threat to ukraine and giving up crimea doesn't solve anything, just kicks the can down the road <cite>Rika_Furude posted [p:986068964] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more.</quote>conceding crimea isn't how it would have ended. russia would stay their hand for a time and then press on. as it stands, russia is an existential threat to ukraine and giving up crimea doesn't solve anything, just kicks the can down the road </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 08/12/25 5:12:21 AM #9:	hivebent4life posted... I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more. There is no universe were conceding to dictators has ever ended or improved anything You think Russia would have stopped? Russia thought the Ukraine military would collapse in 2 weeks --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:986069066] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more.</quote>There is no universe were conceding to dictators has ever ended or improved anything You think Russia would have stopped? Russia thought the Ukraine military would collapse in 2 weeks</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hivebent4life 08/12/25 5:15:19 AM #10:	UnfairRepresent posted... There is no universe were conceding to dictators has ever ended or improved anything You think Russia would have stopped? Russia thought the Ukraine military would collapse in 2 weeks Ukraine has shown that it isnt capable of pushing Russia out, and the west have shown that they arent willing to give them the means to do so. What solution would you propose? --- ~Hivebent4Life 3DS FC: 5069-3910-2647 <cite>hivebent4life posted [p:986069071] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>There is no universe were conceding to dictators has ever ended or improved anything You think Russia would have stopped? Russia thought the Ukraine military would collapse in 2 weeks</quote>Ukraine has shown that it isnt capable of pushing Russia out, and the west have shown that they arent willing to give them the means to do so. What solution would you propose?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 08/12/25 6:32:31 AM #11:	hivebent4life posted... Ukraine has shown that it isnt capable of pushing Russia out, and the west have shown that they arent willing to give them the means to do so. What solution would you propose? Well my solution would be the West giving them what they needed if that's not happening then fight Russia tooth and nail and bleed them dry until their slow slow victory , battered economy and pointless loss of life is as bitter as defeat Why the fuck would you roll over and surrender? England didn't have what it took to defeat the Nazis either, they just held out until the geopolitical environment changed Putin just needs to say Trump has a small dick and a week later there'd be a million US Troops on the front line --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:986069337] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>Ukraine has shown that it isnt capable of pushing Russia out, and the west have shown that they arent willing to give them the means to do so. What solution would you propose?</quote>Well my solution would be the West giving them what they needed if that's not happening then fight Russia tooth and nail and bleed them dry until their slow slow victory , battered economy and pointless loss of life is as bitter as defeatWhy the fuck would you roll over and surrender?England didn't have what it took to defeat the Nazis either, they just held out until the geopolitical environment changed Putin just needs to say Trump has a small dick and a week later there'd be a million US Troops on the front line</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Crazyman93 08/12/25 6:39:54 AM #12:	Rika_Furude posted... The US don't see it as a conflict that needs ending, nor do they care about Ukraine as victims of a hostile invasion. They cared for the war as a testing ground for weapons, intel and tactics and they've probably gotten their moneys worth by now. It's also a lot cheaper to give Ukraine missiles that are reaching their use by date and have them hurl them at some Russian garbage than it is to go through the disposal process of the same missiles. Not to mention, war has had a place in the US economy for a long time. We mandate a minimum stockpile we have to have that in theory would let us hold off a peer adversary (if China or Russia were to suddenly to have the equipment and training to be one) while we ramp up a war economy. So with that stockpile at the minimum, all of a sudden the Department of Defense is buying missiles and rockets and whatever else we sent to Ukraine, lots of it. In theory that's a benefit to the economy, just at the cost of human lives. Realistically, the time to invest in defense contractors would have been about when Russia crossed into eastern Ukraine. --- let's lubricate friction material! ~nickels, Cars & Trucks <cite>Crazyman93 posted [p:986069363] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Rika_Furude posted... </cite><quote>The US don't see it as a conflict that needs ending, nor do they care about Ukraine as victims of a hostile invasion. They cared for the war as a testing ground for weapons, intel and tactics and they've probably gotten their moneys worth by now.</quote>It's also a lot cheaper to give Ukraine missiles that are reaching their use by date and have them hurl them at some Russian garbage than it is to go through the disposal process of the same missiles.Not to mention, war has had a place in the US economy for a long time. We mandate a minimum stockpile we have to have that in theory would let us hold off a peer adversary (if China or Russia were to suddenly to have the equipment and training to be one) while we ramp up a war economy. So with that stockpile at the minimum, all of a sudden the Department of Defense is buying missiles and rockets and whatever else we sent to Ukraine, lots of it. In theory that's a benefit to the economy, just at the cost of human lives. Realistically, the time to invest in defense contractors would have been about when Russia crossed into eastern Ukraine.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Solar_Crimson 08/12/25 6:41:10 AM #13:	If this really is the case, then hopefully Ukraine's actual allies step up and help keep the defense going. The US has been proven to be a completely unreliable "ally". --- "Be good to yourself, because everyone else in the world is probably out to get you." - Dr. Harleen Quinzel <cite>Solar_Crimson posted [p:986069368] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>If this really is the case, then hopefully Ukraine's actual allies step up and help keep the defense going.The US has been proven to be a completely unreliable "ally".</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
hivebent4life 08/12/25 6:48:56 AM #14:	UnfairRepresent posted... if that's not happening then fight Russia tooth and nail and bleed them dry until their slow slow victory , battered economy and pointless loss of life is as bitter as defeat Issue with this is it costs Ukrainian lives too. Ukraine is already having severe manpower issues and is going to experience a demographic crisis even if they win. --- ~Hivebent4Life 3DS FC: 5069-3910-2647 <cite>hivebent4life posted [p:986069402] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>if that's not happening then fight Russia tooth and nail and bleed them dry until their slow slow victory , battered economy and pointless loss of life is as bitter as defeat</quote>Issue with this is it costs Ukrainian lives too. Ukraine is already having severe manpower issues and is going to experience a demographic crisis even if they win.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 08/12/25 6:58:26 AM #15:	hivebent4life posted... Issue with this is it costs Ukrainian lives too. Ukraine is already having severe manpower issues and is going to experience a demographic crisis even if they win. Putin cannot be trusted. Acquiescing to his demands would just set the stage for a new invasion, which leads to even more Ukrainian deaths, possibly even genocide, and worse. Suffice to say, we cannot let a Munich 2.0 happen because we all know what that heralds. Russia's defeat is imperative. --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:986069433] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>Issue with this is it costs Ukrainian lives too. Ukraine is already having severe manpower issues and is going to experience a demographic crisis even if they win.</quote>Putin cannot be trusted. Acquiescing to his demands would just set the stage for a new invasion, which leads to even more Ukrainian deaths, possibly even genocide, and worse.Suffice to say, we cannot let a Munich 2.0 happen because we all know what that heralds. Russia's defeat is imperative.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Crazyman93 08/12/25 6:58:53 AM #16:	Rika_Furude posted... conceding crimea isn't how it would have ended. russia would stay their hand for a time and then press on. as it stands, russia is an existential threat to ukraine and giving up crimea doesn't solve anything, just kicks the can down the road Depends on if you could swing "fine, you can keep Crimea, but Ukraine gets to join NATO." Russia has just spent three years proving they can't even curbstomp a country using equipment that at best dated to the 90s when the USSR fell apart, and that was before the west started supplying them. The last thing they'd want is causing Article 5 to be invoked when our best fighter was built to beat the fighter it replaced and nothing else because we accidentally beat the entire Russian Air Force because we misidentified an interceptor as a superiority fighter. That would never happen however, Ukranian NATO membership is completely counterintuitive to the Russian defensive tactic of "defense in depth", which is to say they don't care if Poland rolls through Belarus or even Kallingrad. But parking artillery right on the Ukranian border with Russia? Then we could hit Moscow, which Moscow, predictably, does care about getting bombed. So Russia would never go for that. That being said, this war doesn't end in a white peace where Russia just packs up, goes home, and possibly pays reperations to repair everything they broke. Putin isn't going to sit there and go "okay, after three years of meatgrindering people on a level that's even more horrific than our counter-attack on Nazi Germany, to the extent we had to get North Koreans to come help fight and hope they wouldn't defect for a ham sandwich, we're going to just give up and go home." He needs something to make up for the fact this is the biggest Russian military fuck up since the Soviet war in Afghanistan, which was also promised as "a quick war that will be over soon." Every year until they finally admitted defeat. And the counterpoint to that, Ukraine isn't going to be able to kick Russia out and force peace on their own because they don't have the people. Lots of fancy Western equipment, sure, but war is still fought with people. So Ukraine doesn't win unless the US, or a collection of NATO nations compromising of some combination of the UK, France, Poland, Germany, Finland, and Sweden (no particular reason for selecting most of those beyond Poland is buying a lot of military equipment and Germany seems to be moving to put serious spending into its NATO commitments) come and help. But all of NATO is very hesitant to do that because they don't want to turn a fairly static conflict into WW3. Unless a meteor hits Moscow and wipes the entire leadership of Russia out, Ukraine is honestly kind of fucked unfortunately. --- let's lubricate friction material! ~nickels, Cars & Trucks <cite>Crazyman93 posted [p:986069436] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Rika_Furude posted... </cite><quote>conceding crimea isn't how it would have ended. russia would stay their hand for a time and then press on. as it stands, russia is an existential threat to ukraine and giving up crimea doesn't solve anything, just kicks the can down the road</quote>Depends on if you could swing "fine, you can keep Crimea, but Ukraine gets to join NATO." Russia has just spent three years proving they can't even curbstomp a country using equipment that at best dated to the 90s when the USSR fell apart, and that was before the west started supplying them. The last thing they'd want is causing Article 5 to be invoked when our best fighter was built to beat the fighter it replaced and nothing else because we accidentally beat the entire Russian Air Force because we misidentified an interceptor as a superiority fighter.That would never happen however, Ukranian NATO membership is completely counterintuitive to the Russian defensive tactic of "defense in depth", which is to say they don't care if Poland rolls through Belarus or even Kallingrad. But parking artillery right on the Ukranian border with Russia? Then we could hit Moscow, which Moscow, predictably, does care about getting bombed. So Russia would never go for that.That being said, this war doesn't end in a white peace where Russia just packs up, goes home, and possibly pays reperations to repair everything they broke. Putin isn't going to sit there and go "okay, after three years of meatgrindering people on a level that's even more horrific than our counter-attack on Nazi Germany, to the extent we had to get North Koreans to come help fight and hope they wouldn't defect for a ham sandwich, we're going to just give up and go home." He needs something to make up for the fact this is the biggest Russian military fuck up since the Soviet war in Afghanistan, which was also promised as "a quick war that will be over soon." Every year until they finally admitted defeat.And the counterpoint to that, Ukraine isn't going to be able to kick Russia out and force peace on their own because they don't have the people. Lots of fancy Western equipment, sure, but war is still fought with people. So Ukraine doesn't win unless the US, or a collection of NATO nations compromising of some combination of the UK, France, Poland, Germany, Finland, and Sweden (no particular reason for selecting most of those beyond Poland is buying a lot of military equipment and Germany seems to be moving to put serious spending into its NATO commitments) come and help. But all of NATO is very hesitant to do that because they don't want to turn a fairly static conflict into WW3.Unless a meteor hits Moscow and wipes the entire leadership of Russia out, Ukraine is honestly kind of fucked unfortunately.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WingsOfGood 08/12/25 7:02:34 AM #17:	Russia had Crimea before this war began. Anyone who thinks giving them Crimea would appease them hasn't paid attention. <cite>WingsOfGood posted [p:986069456] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Russia had Crimea before this war began.Anyone who thinks giving them Crimea would appease them hasn't paid attention.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 08/12/25 7:04:49 AM #18:	hivebent4life posted... Issue with this is it costs Ukrainian lives too. Ukraine is already having severe manpower issues and is going to experience a demographic crisis even if they win. So was England In WW2 What's your point? You're not explaining how surrendering to dictators is the better option Ukraine surrendering territory now is just Ukraine surrendering all of Ukraine with a lunch break --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:986069467] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>Issue with this is it costs Ukrainian lives too. Ukraine is already having severe manpower issues and is going to experience a demographic crisis even if they win.</quote>So was England In WW2What's your point?You're not explaining how surrendering to dictators is the better option Ukraine surrendering territory now is just Ukraine surrendering all of Ukraine with a lunch break </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Thompson 08/12/25 7:07:14 AM #19:	Crazyman93 posted... But parking artillery right on the Ukranian border with Russia? Then we could hit Moscow, which Moscow, predictably, does care about getting bombed. So Russia would never go for that. Artillery is kind of old hat when ICMBs have existed for decades and can reach Moscow in 15 minutes from a submarine lurking in the Arctic ocean. --- Sigs are rather pointless, except if it's to showcase animation and images. <cite>Thompson posted [p:986069475] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Crazyman93 posted... </cite><quote>But parking artillery right on the Ukranian border with Russia? Then we could hit Moscow, which Moscow, predictably, does care about getting bombed. So Russia would never go for that.</quote>Artillery is kind of old hat when ICMBs have existed for decades and can reach Moscow in 15 minutes from a submarine lurking in the Arctic ocean.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funkydog 08/12/25 7:07:29 AM #20:	Ah comrade! For the glorious motherland! Those capitalist American swine shall finally fall! --- Undercover cat lover <cite>Funkydog posted [p:986069478] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Ah comrade! For the glorious motherland!Those capitalist American swine shall finally fall!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
havean776 08/12/25 7:11:26 AM #21:	SecretBase posted... Unpopular position but I really don't like the idea of endlessly funding a war with no win condition in sight. Why? It's not like the money would go to helping the AMerican public. --- "I will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal Barca <cite>havean776 posted [p:986069498] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>SecretBase posted... </cite><quote>Unpopular position but I really don't like the idea of endlessly funding a war with no win condition in sight.</quote>Why? It's not like the money would go to helping the AMerican public.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheFuzz3451 08/12/25 9:15:42 AM #22:	Saying this ahead of negotiations is extremely stupid, you're just weakening your own bargaining position. --- Yes we're being condescending Yes that means we're talking down to you <cite>TheFuzz3451 posted [p:986070136] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Saying this ahead of negotiations is extremely stupid, you're just weakening your own bargaining position.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kelemvor 08/12/25 9:21:16 AM #23:	I still think it's cute that the USA thinks it even has a say on whatever treaty Ukraine should agree to. Even if Ukraine is slowly loosing territory, in a defensive war the aggressor is always at a disadvantage. Russia is just slowly killing itself for every square mile of land they take. <cite>kelemvor posted [p:986070181] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>I still think it's cute that the USA thinks it even has a say on whatever treaty Ukraine should agree to.Even if Ukraine is slowly loosing territory, in a defensive war the aggressor is always at a disadvantage. Russia is just slowly killing itself for every square mile of land they take.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Starks 08/12/25 9:26:11 AM #24:	I'm not saying Ukraine wants to fight endlessly, they don't, but that's up to them. This black and white idea that the killing must stop ignores every implication of doing that. Ffs, let let Russia keep throwing 1,000 casualties a day at this war. Their forces are all fair targets unlike the continuously bombardment of Ukrainian civilians. And there is no same thing, both sides when measuring that. --- Paid for by StarksPAC, a registered 501(c)(4) <cite>Starks posted [p:986070221] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>I'm not saying Ukraine wants to fight endlessly, they don't, but that's up to them.This black and white idea that the killing must stop ignores every implication of doing that. Ffs, let let Russia keep throwing 1,000 casualties a day at this war. Their forces are all fair targets unlike the continuously bombardment of Ukrainian civilians. And there is no same thing, both sides when measuring that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SecretBase 08/12/25 8:57:48 PM #25:	Rika_Furude posted... The US don't see it as a conflict that needs ending, nor do they care about Ukraine as victims of a hostile invasion. They cared for the war as a testing ground for weapons, intel and tactics and they've probably gotten their moneys worth by now. Pretty much. We've succesfully measured the extent of our militarial superiority to Russia, and around how far they're willing to go in pursuit of foreign policy goals (answer: they're basically just terrorists in suits). It's time for some sort of conclusion. UnfairRepresent posted... if that's not happening then fight Russia tooth and nail and bleed them dry until their slow slow victory , battered economy and pointless loss of life is as bitter as defeat Around 30 Ukrainians are killed per day and much of these are either civilians or conscripts (i.e. people who may not actually support the continuatiion of this war). If the only people dying were willing soldiers, sure go ahead, but no I don't think countless innocent people should be sacrificed just to slowly lose a war. Starks posted... I'm not saying Ukraine wants to fight endlessly, they don't, but that's up to them. Never got the idea that we should have no say in the affairs of countries we are literally funding. The notion of unconditional support is insane in any context. WingsOfGood posted... Russia had Crimea before this war began. Russia had already stole Crimea, but in response Ukraine put up a dam over its water supply from the north canal (which had previously accounted for 85% of its total water supply). One of the first things Russia did in its recent invasion was blow up the dam. --- Sorry. Not sorry. <cite>SecretBase posted [p:986076320] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Rika_Furude posted...</cite><quote>The US don't see it as a conflict that needs ending, nor do they care about Ukraine as victims of a hostile invasion. They cared for the war as a testing ground for weapons, intel and tactics and they've probably gotten their moneys worth by now.</quote>Pretty much. We've succesfully measured the extent of our militarial superiority to Russia, and around how far they're willing to go in pursuit of foreign policy goals (answer: they're basically just terrorists in suits). It's time for some sort of conclusion.UnfairRepresent posted...</cite><quote>if that's not happening then fight Russia tooth and nail and bleed them dry until their slow slow victory , battered economy and pointless loss of life is as bitter as defeat</quote>Around 30 Ukrainians are killed per day and much of these are either civilians or conscripts (i.e. people who may not actually support the continuatiion of this war).If the only people dying were willing soldiers, sure go ahead, but no I don't think countless innocent people should be sacrificed just to slowly lose a war.Starks posted...</cite><quote>I'm not saying Ukraine wants to fight endlessly, they don't, but that's up to them.</quote>Never got the idea that we should have no say in the affairs of countries we are literally funding. The notion of unconditional support is insane in any context.WingsOfGood posted...</cite><quote>Russia had Crimea before this war began.</quote>Russia had already stole Crimea, but in response Ukraine put up a dam over its water supply from the north canal (which had previously accounted for 85% of its total water supply). One of the first things Russia did in its recent invasion was blow up the dam.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 08/12/25 9:05:03 PM #26:	hivebent4life posted... I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more. The best way this could have ended is for Russia to leave Ukraine alone. Give them anything and they will take more. --- "So this is how liberty dies, with Thunderous applause." Padme Amidala <cite>creativerealms posted [p:986076390] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more.</quote>The best way this could have ended is for Russia to leave Ukraine alone. Give them anything and they will take more.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
OmegaShinkai 08/12/25 9:24:19 PM #27:	hivebent4life posted... I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more. You really think that with their third invasion of their neighbors within 15 years, while talking about how Ukraine's existence was a mistake and they needed to rightfully rejoin Russia, that appeasement would get them to stop? <cite>OmegaShinkai posted [p:986076558] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more.</quote>You really think that with their third invasion of their neighbors within 15 years, while talking about how Ukraine's existence was a mistake and they needed to rightfully rejoin Russia, that appeasement would get them to stop?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Crazyman93 08/12/25 9:25:33 PM #28:	Thompson posted... Artillery is kind of old hat when ICMBs have existed for decades and can reach Moscow in 15 minutes from a submarine lurking in the Arctic ocean. The assumption is both sides will fight a conventional war with nuclear weapons as a last resort. The problem with that is it assumes both sides care if the planet gets devestated. --- let's lubricate friction material! ~nickels, Cars & Trucks <cite>Crazyman93 posted [p:986076567] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>Thompson posted... </cite><quote>Artillery is kind of old hat when ICMBs have existed for decades and can reach Moscow in 15 minutes from a submarine lurking in the Arctic ocean.</quote>The assumption is both sides will fight a conventional war with nuclear weapons as a last resort. The problem with that is it assumes both sides care if the planet gets devestated.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
darkknight109 08/13/25 7:21:47 PM #29:	hivebent4life posted... I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more. Ukraine did concede Crimea, in actions if not words. They privately acknowledged after the 2014 invasion that they did not have the military power to force Russia out. They never publicly recognized Russia's claim to the territory (and nor can they, per their own constitution), but that's a distinction without a difference as far as Russia is concerned. Capitulation to Russia does not work, and we know this because we literally tried that already. Russia isn't stopping until Ukraine is back under their influence and de facto control, the way it was before the Maidan revolution. Pretending otherwise is not just foolish, it's dangerous. SecretBase posted... If the only people dying were willing soldiers, sure go ahead, but no I don't think countless innocent people should be sacrificed just to slowly lose a war. This viewpoint suggests that there is an alternative that preserves innocent life. Bluntly, there isn't. Not unless the west is willing to provide security guarantees for Ukraine, which has thus far been a non-starter on two fronts (no western country or military has signalled that they are willing to grant a mutual defence pact to Ukraine, and the Russians have claimed that such a pact would be unacceptable to them regardless of the terms). It is very telling that Russia's demands for Ukraine include a cessation of western arms sales and strict caps on their military strength. It's not hard to figure out Putin's goal here - get as much land in the ceasefire negotiations as possible, neuter Ukraine as much as possible, get sanctions relief to ease the economic pressure, then regroup and prepare for another military invasion and try not to fuck up quite as badly this time this time. It is absolutely pointless to accede to a ceasefire when those same Russian guns are going to return a decade from now to "finish the job". You want to guard the innocents in Ukraine? Then that will involve either crushing the Russians (likely economically), massively ramping up Ukraine's ability to defend itself (likely including defence alliances) or, ideally, both. Anything short of that is simply going to be "peace in our time" that represents a temporary pause in the conflict that's unlikely to buy more than a few years' worth of peace. --- Kill 1 man: You are a murderer. Kill 10 men: You are a monster. Kill 100 men: You are a hero. Kill 10,000 men, you are a conqueror! <cite>darkknight109 posted [p:986084908] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with Ukraine conceding just Crimea. Now Trump will try to pressure them to give up far more.</quote>Ukraine did concede Crimea, in actions if not words. They privately acknowledged after the 2014 invasion that they did not have the military power to force Russia out. They never publicly recognized Russia's claim to the territory (and nor can they, per their own constitution), but that's a distinction without a difference as far as Russia is concerned.Capitulation to Russia does not work, and we know this because we literally tried that already. Russia isn't stopping until Ukraine is back under their influence and de facto control, the way it was before the Maidan revolution. Pretending otherwise is not just foolish, it's dangerous.SecretBase posted... </cite><quote>If the only people dying were willing soldiers, sure go ahead, but no I don't think countless innocent people should be sacrificed just to slowly lose a war.</quote>This viewpoint suggests that there is an alternative that preserves innocent life.Bluntly, there isn't. Not unless the west is willing to provide security guarantees for Ukraine, which has thus far been a non-starter on two fronts (no western country or military has signalled that they are willing to grant a mutual defence pact to Ukraine, and the Russians have claimed that such a pact would be unacceptable to them regardless of the terms). It is very telling that Russia's demands for Ukraine include a cessation of western arms sales and strict caps on their military strength.It's not hard to figure out Putin's goal here - get as much land in the ceasefire negotiations as possible, neuter Ukraine as much as possible, get sanctions relief to ease the economic pressure, then regroup and prepare for another military invasion and try not to fuck up quite as badly this time this time. It is absolutely pointless to accede to a ceasefire when those same Russian guns are going to return a decade from now to "finish the job". You want to guard the innocents in Ukraine? Then that will involve either crushing the Russians (likely economically), massively ramping up Ukraine's ability to defend itself (likely including defence alliances) or, ideally, both. Anything short of that is simply going to be "peace in our time" that represents a temporary pause in the conflict that's unlikely to buy more than a few years' worth of peace.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Neoconkers 08/17/25 5:45:57 PM #30:	hivebent4life posted... I think the best way this could have ended was with the Czechoslovaks conceding just the Sudetenland --- RIP Benny Harvey, gone but not forgotten. We miss you, big man. <cite>Neoconkers posted [p:986122045] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>hivebent4life posted... </cite><quote>I think the best way this could have ended was with the Czechoslovaks conceding just the Sudetenland</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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feraldrgn 08/18/25 11:37:19 AM #32:	All of the previous countries ruled by the U.S.S.R. might need to prepare themselves. I do not foresee Putin playing nice with a permanent truce. Gladius_ said it better. --- Avaritia Hawthorne Original Song "Burn The Beast", recommended listen! https://youtu.be/Q-FIPWhMzDM?feature=shared <cite>feraldrgn posted [p:986128368] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>All of the previous countries ruled by the U.S.S.R. might need to prepare themselves.I do not foresee Putin playing nice with a permanent truce.Gladius_ said it better.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Funkydog 08/18/25 3:13:24 PM #33:	If Ukraine is made to 'surrender' or give up land for peace then Russia will attack them and more after. Either Putin is stopped now or he causes a far greater war later on. --- Undercover cat lover <cite>Funkydog posted [p:986130554] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>If Ukraine is made to 'surrender' or give up land for peace then Russia will attack them and more after.Either Putin is stopped now or he causes a far greater war later on.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nocturnal_traveler 08/18/25 3:19:09 PM #34:	I'm gonna be honest. I'm tired of the US funding and/or causing wars. Let our allies do it for a change. --- --I understand your opinion. I just don't care about it. ~Jedah-- <cite>nocturnal_traveler posted [p:986130606] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>I'm gonna be honest. I'm tired of the US funding and/or causing wars. Let our allies do it for a change.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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nocturnal_traveler 08/18/25 3:54:51 PM #36:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] So basically, Trump/Vance are lying like usual. --- --I understand your opinion. I just don't care about it. ~Jedah-- <cite>nocturnal_traveler posted [p:986130930] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> So basically, Trump/Vance are lying like usual.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 08/18/25 4:08:14 PM #37:	nocturnal_traveler posted... I'm gonna be honest. I'm tired of the US funding and/or causing wars. Let our allies do it for a change. Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal for protection. Kind of shitty for us to not then keep that protection. --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:986131066] in Ahead of T... [t:81026078]...</cite> <quote>nocturnal_traveler posted... </cite><quote>I'm gonna be honest. I'm tired of the US funding and/or causing wars. Let our allies do it for a change.</quote>Ukraine gave up it's nuclear arsenal for protection. Kind of shitty for us to not then keep that protection. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Ahead of Trump Putin meeting, Vance says the US is done funding Ukraine (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Ahead of Trump Putin meeting, Vance says the US is done funding Ukraine