Current Events > Red hat Undertaker defends sex trafficker Vince McMahon

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One of the things I really dislike about Christianity is the constant shedding of personal responsibility for everything. And constant refusing to assign responsibility to people for the terrible shit they do.

CableZL posted...

One of the things I really dislike about Christianity is the constant shedding of personal responsibility for everything. And constant refusing to assign responsibility to people for the terrible shit they do.

Agreed.

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I'm not a fucking sex trafficker, fool of an Undertook, so that phrase is inapplicable.

Given what the actual accusations are and facts of the case that we already know, this makes him sound ridiculously out of touch. Taking the Christian angle on something like this is an absolute clown move

I am shocked that the guy who had Trump on his pod a few months and thanked him for "making politics fun again" feels this way.

Disappointing to say the least.

Also "Only God can judge", doesn't mean "Have zero thought about anything ever". You're allowed to think a confirmed sex pest is vile while still keeping in mind that you aren't perfect. While sin is sin in the eyes of God, in this world we rightfully view sex crimes as worse than petty theft, though both happen to be crimes.

Imperfect people can still call out and detest evil.

I've never raped or pimped out anyone so I can judge Vince McMahon.

Fuck Vince McMahon.

This post will haunt me, but ok I get it's the whole judge yet not ye be judged but sometimes just turning a blind eye and being humble about things is the way to go. Not sure why Undertaker needed to weigh in for this. I do remember once Vinny Mac strutted around on Smackdown when he got off of one allegations. That wasn't being humble, probably cost him more money.

CableZL posted...

One of the things I really dislike about Christianity is the constant shedding of personal responsibility for everything. And constant refusing to assign responsibility to people for the terrible shit they do.

all i hear from his response is "what he did does not bother me". i bet if this guy did something the Undertaker took a personal issue with, the response would be different.

I am not even very spiritual anymore even, but don't make this into a Christianity is bad topic :/

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I think there's quite a few more judges

Smashingpmkns posted...

I think there's quite a few more judges

All those Greek and Roman gods and goddesses. *chuckle* Ugh this is my last post here. I guess just be true to yourself and don't willingly hurt other people.

Can he just go back to never talking on social media? Go pretend to be undead again, it makes you look less stupid.

I rolled my eyes so hard at the "man upstairs" line.

Fuck you. We are not dispensing justice based upon the fabricated fee-fees of a mythical fairy-tale being.

Hayame_Zero posted...

I am shocked that the guy who had Trump on his pod a few months and thanked him for "making politics fun again" feels this way.

With his daughter sitting next to him, too. Imagine your daughter was Janel Grant, Mark. Maybe you'd judge, then.

He's a conservative. They have no real morals or principles. They don't have empathy. They can accept bad people doing horrible things as long as they benefit in some way. They celebrate the worst aspects of humanity.

Besides, even if you took away all the recent Vince stuff, he'd still be a rotten, awful, despicable person. Taker is just a piece of shit himself and doesn't care because Vince made him money and gave him power. Sadly, wrestling is full of chuds besides a few exceptions.
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CableZL posted...

One of the things I really dislike about Christianity is the constant shedding of personal responsibility for everything. And constant refusing to assign responsibility to people for the terrible shit they do.

And that applies only when convenient, like most other Christian-isms. When it's themselves or their friends or people they like, it's all about that shit, but if it's somebody they don't like then they need to change and be more Christian. Sin is only ok when they do it.

get fucked, undertaker.

Blargh I am only bumping this but there is obviously no reason Undertaker comes out and sez this unless he is getting paid somehow.

Vince is an asshole, but why would Undertaker say this otherwise.

Kamil posted...

Blargh I am only bumping this but there is obviously no reason Undertaker comes out and sez this unless he is getting paid somehow.

Vince is an asshole, but why would Undertaker say this otherwise.

Probably because he believes it.

Unfortunately.

Even if he absolves everything Vince did it's not just the trafficking and things, The Fabolous Moolah was a horrible person. I just think I saw a story where he got off some charges and of course he can't walk around on Smackdown why does the Undertaker so soon be like, yea. He's my man.

EGO I guess rules a lot of life :(

It also goes to show how much greed overrides everything else good and decent on our planet.

"Oh, there's a lot of evidence that Vince was a fuckin' creep, but I made a lot of money because of him, so he's awesome no matter what."

Get. Fucked.

Kamil posted...

All those Greek and Roman gods and goddesses. *chuckle* Ugh this is my last post here. I guess just be true to yourself and don't willingly hurt other people.

Whoa! 5k active posts! Teach me your ways, Sensei.

I'm not Christian, but I am religious. The truth is this. Taker had a father/son relationship with Vince for years -- thats why he isnt saying anything. IMO Vince is being accused of some vile stuff, and if its all true, he should burn for it. That being said, there is nothing wrong with saying the guy upstairs is the final judge or w/e because that doesn't mean we can't hold people accountable for stuff they do on earth, that's just silly to assume.

hitokoriX posted...

I'm not Christian, but I am religious. The truth is this. Taker had a father/son relationship with Vince for years -- thats why he isnt saying anything. IMO Vince is being accused of some vile stuff, and if its all true, he should burn for it. That being said, there is nothing wrong with saying the guy upstairs is the final judge or w/e because that doesn't mean we can't hold people accountable for stuff they do on earth, that's just silly to assume.

Christians routinely refuse to hold people accountable for things they do on earth, though. They have a long history of protecting religious leaders who molest children and shielding them from being held accountable.

hitokoriX posted...

I'm not Christian, but I am religious. The truth is this. Taker had a father/son relationship with Vince for years -- thats why he isnt saying anything. IMO Vince is being accused of some vile stuff, and if its all true, he should burn for it. That being said, there is nothing wrong with saying the guy upstairs is the final judge or w/e because that doesn't mean we can't hold people accountable for stuff they do on earth, that's just silly to assume.

Saying that is absolutely a way to dodge holding people accountable and that's almost always how it's used.

Taker is a piece of shit and no amount of father/son relationship justifies defending Vince. And you shouldn't be defending Taker.

I've been a wrestling fan since I was 5

People give the Undertaker a pass because he's legitimately one of the GOATs but he has always been a horrible person and a bully. The excuses people make for him is absurd.

People being surprised that he sticks up for far-right rapists just shows the image they created of him in their mind.

As far as personality goes, he's basically a smart Ultimate Warrior.

CableZL posted...

Christians routinely refuse to hold people accountable for things they do on earth, though. They have a long history of protecting religious leaders who molest children and shielding them from being held accountable.

Atheists do it too. "Sure he did a bad thing, but he's not a bad person because here's a list of good things he did with me and here's a list of bad things he didn't do."

There's some sects of Christianity that take the angle of: "We are all sinners. Your sins aren't just actions, but things you say, things you fail to do, and even your thoughts planning out bad things are sins." Failure to call out a bad action because a friend did it is a sin too.

Also, very few Christians sects have a habit of letting LGTB people be because "god will judge them." So it's not that their faith causing them to not judge others but very clearly that their personal connections and biases causing them to excuse things they shouldn't.

bfslick50 posted...

Atheists do it too. "Sure he did a bad thing, but he's not a bad person because here's a list of good things he did with me and here's a list of bad things he didn't do."

"BOTH SIDES!"

Also no, atheists don't do this. Maybe a speciic person but there is nothing about rejecting the existence of God that makes you defend rapists.

There is however enormous pressure and indoctrination in the Abrahamic faiths to excuse whatever you want to excucse because "God'll sort it out later."

bfslick50 posted...

Also, very few Christians sects have a habit of letting LGTB people be because "god will judge them." So it's not that their faith causing them to not judge others but very clearly that their personal connections and biases causing them to excuse things they shouldn't.

Personal biases and connections caused and reinforced by their religious and cultural teachings expressed by their parents, colleagues, friends, family and society throughout their entire lives.

You can't just handwave this bro. It's very very much an Abrahamic religion problem

You're on par with the people who say "The women in Saudi Arabia WANT to cover their faces and have no rights. They said so."

Gee, wonder who it was that made them think like that....

UnfairRepresent posted...

"BOTH SIDES!"

Also no, atheists don't do this. Maybe a speciic person but there is nothing about rejecting the existence of God that makes you defend rapists.

There is however enormous pressure and indoctrination in the Abrahamic faiths to excuse whatever you want to excucse because "God'll sort it out later."

Personal biases and connections caused and reinforced by their religious and cultural teachings expressed by their parents, colleagues, friends, family and society throughout their entire lives.

You can't just handwave this bro. It's very very much an Abrahamic religion problem

You're on par with the people who say "The women in Saudi Arabia WANT to cover their faces and have no rights. They said so."

Gee, wonder who it was that made them think like that....

OK, first, Atheists don't have a habit of attacking LGTB poeple. That is a particularly hateful otherizing of a minority that anyone can do but Abrahamic religions have a history and a claimed authority and a written passages in their Bible that make them so much more hateful than a bigotted Atheist would be.

I do hate the same things both sides argument, but on the specific topic "made excuses for bad things" is something atheists do all the fucking time with "still a good person" which misses the whole point of Christianity. Jesus is claimed to be merely a good person but a perfect person and someone not continually striving to be more perfect is falling short.

Second, the fact that many Christians demonizes innocent LGBT people and not letting them be because "God will judge them later" is undeniable proof that Christians don't regularly use that excuse as implied by a lot of posts in this topic. There would be zero attacks on LGBT people if "not for me to judge" was a common attitude in any major Christian sect.

MAGAs love body-on-body sports because odds of the players breaking their brains is high.

bfslick50 posted...

OK, first, Atheists don't have a habit of attacking LGTB poeple. That is a particularly hateful otherizing of a minority that anyone can do but Abrahamic religions have a history and a claimed authority and a written passages in their Bible that make them so much more hateful than a bigotted Atheist would be.

I do hate the same things both sides argument, but on the specific topic "made excuses for bad things" is something atheists do all the fucking time with "still a good person" which misses the whole point of Christianity. Jesus is claimed to be merely a good person but a perfect person and someone not continually striving to be more perfect is falling short.

Second, the fact that many Christians demonizes innocent LGBT people and not letting them be because "God will judge them later" is undeniable proof that Christians don't regularly use that excuse as implied by a lot of posts in this topic. There would be zero attacks on LGBT people if "not for me to judge" was a common attitude in any major Christian sect.

You're being ridiculously dishonest.

You can't go "Well Christians and atheists are the same because I'm sure some atheist somewhere excused bad behavior and Christians judge people all the time but then refuse to judge their friends."

That's silly and you know it's silly.

Yes Christians judge people all the time while excusing their mates. That's common hypocrisy.

But you're ignoring that one of the tenants of religious, that Christians, Muslims and Jews are taught often before they can even comprehend language is that there is an afterlife and your life/sins are judged by God accordingly.

Aheists don't believe this. This leads to an ENORMOUS predisposition to make excuses for your pals "because God" that atheists don't have

And you are lying through your teeth if you pretend you don't see this. Especially as you yourself brought up "personal connections and biases."

Hell without even leaving this singular example let's see how an atheist who Vince McMahon made a millionaire reacted to his crimes.

"Oh, **** this. Its indefensible, you know? Doing this, I imagined I was gonna be asked about it and I think the easiest thing for people to do is to kind of ignore it or avoid it but man, its there and my initial first thing out of my mouth was, Im kind of shocked at how dumb he was.

Like writing stuff down and leaving that paper trail and its horrific and Im not I think at this point, all the energy should be used to somehow I dont even know if you can make reparations or amends but theres victims here. So, what CM Punk thinks about Vince and the CM Punk-Vince relationship doesnt ****ing mean anything."

You're going "both sides" because with 7 billion + population someone from any group ever has done something. But are aggressively ignoring that "Make excuses because God will sort it out" is something in the back of the mind of anyone anywhere who was raised in an Abrahamic Religion and is not there for anyone who was not.

This makes them predispositioned to do it.

Here's a former Christian pastor talking about this very problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxP6QgI5NbU

You're being intellectually dishonest.

UnfairRepresent posted...

But you're ignoring that one of the tenants of religious, that Christians, Muslims and Jews are taught often before they can even comprehend language is that there is an afterlife and your life/sins are judged by God accordingly.

Aheists don't believe this. This leads to an ENORMOUS predisposition to make excuses for your pals "because God" that atheists don't have

Everyone one of us have ingrained to at the drop of the hat break people up into US versus THEM. Making excuses for your group/tribe/family/etc while harshly condemning others has nothing to do with Christianity specifically. You handwaving that atheists don't do this is complete bullshit because you don't want to call your us group.

Christians have a lot of problems exclusive to them. Their hate of LGBT people is not a both sides issue. But you trying to force this as just a Christian thing or just an Abrahamic religion thing doesn't fit.

bfslick50 posted...

Everyone one of us have ingrained to at the drop of the hat break people up into US versus THEM. Making excuses for your group/tribe/family/etc while harshly condemning others has nothing to do with Christianity specifically. You handwaving that atheists don't do this is complete bullshit because you don't want to call your us group.

Christians have a lot of problems exclusive to them. Their hate of LGBT people is not a both sides issue. But you trying to force this as just a Christian thing or just an Abrahamic religion thing doesn't fit.

I didn't say it's "just" an abrahamic religion thing. In fact I went out of my way to demonstrate that it's not.

I said it's signifcantly prevalent among Abrahamic religious because they are more predispositioned to do it. "God'll sort it out" is taught from childhood by everyone you know and respect and your whole society in general. You can't just ignore that and proclaim it part of the human condition.

UnfairRepresent posted...

I didn't say it's "just" an abrahamic religion thing. In fact I went out of my way to demonstrate that it's not.

I said it's signifcantly prevalent among Abrahamic religious because they are more predispositioned to do it. "God'll sort it out" is taught from childhood by everyone you know and respect and your whole society in general. You can't just ignore that and proclaim it part of the human condition.

If the premise "God'll sort it out" was genuinely ingrained since childhood then as a group they would be more likely to excuse people in the "them" group. I don't think me using attacks on LGBT is a cherry picked example.. I don't think Christians are more likely to defend the "them" group.

I also don't see how you think me saying, "Christians are very ready to attack the them group" sounds like a defense of Christianity. You're coming off as a full court press, all attacks on Christianity are a good attack.

bfslick50 posted...

Second, the fact that many Christians demonizes innocent LGBT people and not letting them be because "God will judge them later" is undeniable proof that Christians don't regularly use that excuse as implied by a lot of posts in this topic. There would be zero attacks on LGBT people if "not for me to judge" was a common attitude in any major Christian sect.

This is such a wild take.

"Not for me to judge" is 100% a common attitude with American Christians, at least. They just selectively apply it. Doesn't apply to LGBT folk, does apply to people with an R next to their name or people who happen to share their beliefs.

This isn't difficult to figure out.

Murphiroth posted...

This is such a wild take.

"Not for me to judge" is 100% a common attitude with American Christians, at least. They just selectively apply it. Doesn't apply to LGBT folk, does apply to people with an R next to their name or people who happen to share their beliefs.

This isn't difficult to figure out.

Atheist MAGAs have no problem replacing "not for me to judge" with "still a good person." It's just us vs them fascism encompassing American Christians but there are no tenants derived from Christianity that guide their actions. If Vince McMahon said something bad about Trump today then tomorrow the Undertaker would be cursing him out. This has nothing to do with Christianity but US defending our kind at any reason against THEM.

bfslick50 posted...

Atheist MAGAs

Is there even such a thing?

jumi posted...

Is there even such a thing?

Sure, stupidity isn't limited by ideological lines.

DrizztLink posted...

Sure, stupidity isn't limited by ideological lines.

But it seems like if you dodge one cult you have enhanced defense against others.

I can't think of one single atheist MAGA. Is Andrew Tate an atheist?

Rather sucks that he has gone down this path. I actually met him at a convention several years back.

Him and Million Dollar Man weren't people I expected to go down these dark paths.

jumi posted...

But it seems like if you dodge one cult you have enhanced defense against others.

You would be extremely surprised.

JadeBaby posted...

Him and Million Dollar Man weren't people I expected to go down these dark paths.

How could the gravedigger zombie and evil millionaire be so bad?!

The context to this all is that Taker was invited to the Super Bowl by Vince and he accepted going as his guest. Taker knows he will get some heat for still being associated with him so he was commenting on why he will maintain a relationship with Vince.

jumi posted...

Is there even such a thing?

I mean, do you think ANY of them actually 'follow Jesus's teachings'?

Sayoria posted...

I mean, do you think ANY of them actually 'follow Jesus's teachings'?

Technically that just makes them Heretic MAGA. Whole bunch of dudes like that in the Bible, usually got the shit beaten out of them by people these guys claim to worship.

Not to mention being MAGA in the first place violates the one tenet of atheism, in that you aren't supposed to worship a higher power.

I'm actually not sure where I was going with this.

DrizztLink posted...

Technically that just makes them Heretic MAGA. Whole bunch of dudes like that in the Bible, usually got the shit beaten out of them by people these guys claim to worship.

Not to mention being MAGA in the first place violates the one tenet of atheism, in that you aren't supposed to worship a higher power.

I'm actually not sure where I was going with this.

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The pastor who called on trump to 'be kind' to LGBT people and other minorities after he took office again was speaking actual teachings. Look at what people said about HER online.