Current Events > Magic The Gathering is officially dead: Crossover sets legal in all formats.

(+) Yeah! (+)

AnsestralRecall posted...

Unironically, commander players are the most whiney Magic players possible

Interesting...

So magic vs Yugio now?

Cheater87 posted...

So magic vs Yugio now?

I still like Yugioh cuz the rare cards are pretty... I love dem foils

Yugioh still has by far the absolute worst card UI of any game ever

Cheater87 posted...

So magic vs Yugio now?

IMO, not even close. MtG is just an overall better designed game than Yugioh. With that said, there is definitely a market that loves being able to combo into their end game super fast on their first turn (hoping/praying that the opponent doesn't have a hand trap to stop it) so I do think it can co-exist in the TCG landscape.

however, mtg rare cards kinda suck... all they get is their booster emblem is a different colour

Prestoff posted...

IMO, not even close. MtG is just an overall better designed game than Yugioh. With that said, there is definitely a market that loves being able to combo into their end game super fast on their first turn (hoping/praying that the opponent doesn't have a hand trap to stop it) so I do think it can co-exist in the TCG landscape.

Isn't yugioh on the verge of death because of how fast it is, lack of set rotation, 10-20 minute long combos, steep price point, and it generally not adapting to the times?

GhostFaceLeaks posted...

Isn't yugioh on the verge of death because of how fast it is, lack of set rotation, 10-20 minute long combos, steep price point, and it generally not adapting to the times?

I guess Yugioh has been on the verge of death for the last 8 years

Doe posted...

I guess Yugioh has been on the verge of death for the last 8 years

All I see are people saying how the game is impenetrable for new players to get into, content creators complaining about the game, and players complaining about the game. Not a single ounce of positivity to be seen.

I'm just saying none of that sentiment is new

Yugioh writes paragraphs on their carda and you still need external explanation to know what it means.

Lokarin posted...

however, mtg rare cards kinda suck... all they get is their booster emblem is a different colour

? Do special foiling, alternate art, alternate borders, etc. not count as something different in YGO? Or do you not play MtG and have no clue about what Wizards does to try and spice up rarer cards?

GhostFaceLeaks posted...

Isn't yugioh on the verge of death because of how fast it is, lack of set rotation, 10-20 minute long combos, steep price point, and it generally not adapting to the times?

No it's not, it's still selling really well because it's the "fastest" tcg in the market and it's IP. A lot of the complaints on youtube is primarily from it's competitive pro players that get mad that Konami treats them and their tournaments like garbage with bad prize pools unlike something like Lorcana where you're given prizes that can be worth a large investment in the future. Konami, like Hasbro, realize they can get more money by appealing more to the casual crowd and getting in new blood vs. keeping the OG players around that will just complain about any changes they do to their game. It sucks, but so far it's shown to be an effective method.

ellis123 posted...

Or do you not play MtG and have no clue

ahoy!

Lokarin posted...

ahoy!

Then do not try and speak from authority. YGO has more rarities, but MtG has more ways that they try and bling cards.

WingsOfGood posted...

Yugioh writes paragraphs on their carda and you still need external explanation to know what it means.

To second this, the card effect can actually be something so simple as "Destroy 1 card on the field" and the rest of the card text is simply about the ruling like how many times you're allowed to do it, when you're allow to use the effect, what's the cost to using said effect, etc. And it's like I said, because from the conception the game wasn't very well thought out and that means you have cards that are able to do things that break the spirit of what they're originally designed to do. That's why they have to be so specific on what the effect is and it's limitation to the rules to prevent stuff like that from happening. Having set rotations could help with this as well (especially from power creeping), but Konami is more comfortable with having a ban list.

ellis123 posted...

Then do not try and speak from authority. YGO has more rarities, but MtG has more ways that they try and bling cards.

They're just trolling.

Prestoff posted...

To second this, the card effect can actually be something so simple as "Destroy 1 card on the field" and the rest of the card text is simply about the ruling like how many times you're allowed to do it, when you're allow to use the effect, what's the cost to using said effect, etc. And it's like I said, because from the conception the game wasn't very well thought out and that means you have cards that are able to do things that break the spirit of what they're originally designed to do. That's why they have to be so specific on what the effect is and it's limitation to the rules to prevent stuff like that from happening. Having set rotations could help with this as well (especially from power creeping), but Konami is more comfortable with having a ban list.

A rotation will help but there's people who say the game is incapable of working with rotation with how it is designed and other people say it'll kill the game for good.

Either these people are exaggerating or the game is too poorly designed to have normal TCG mechanics and design decisions.

GhostFaceLeaks posted...

A rotation will help but there's people who say the game is incapable of working with rotation with how it is designed and other people say it'll kill the game for good.

Either these people are exaggerating or the game is too poorly designed to have normal TCG mechanics and design decisions.

Yeah I just texted my friend, he's not a "pro-player" but he's super into the Yugioh meta and participates in a lot of Yugioh tournaments at card shops, this question and he told me that it just won't work because Yugioh is so "archetype" heavy and some of these archetypes require certain cards in certain sets to be good or even playable. It would fundamentally change how they release cards so while set rotations would solve A LOT of its problems, but it would also introduce a lot of other problems as well.

Prestoff posted...

Yeah I just texted my friend, he's not a "pro-player" but he's super into the Yugioh meta and participates in a lot of Yugioh tournaments at card shops, this question and he told me that it just won't work because Yugioh is so "archetype" heavy and some of these archetypes require certain cards in certain sets to be good or even playable. It would fundamentally change how they release cards so while set rotations would solve A LOT of its problems, but it would also introduce a lot of other problems as well

Unless they accommodate the archetype focus on rotation but it'd be a very different kind of rotation.

But there's apparently enough people who hate rotation that Yu-Gi-Oh will flat out die if they implement it anyways.

Prestoff posted...

They're just trolling.

I am not doing the troll; Just because I have an authoritative tone, doesn't mean I'm speaking authoritatively.

Legit the only MTG rarities I'm familiar with is the booster emblem changing, which is the YGO equivalent of basic rares.

Lokarin posted...

I am not doing the troll; Just because I have an authoritative tone, doesn't mean I'm speaking authoritatively.

Legit the only MTG rarities I'm familiar with is the booster emblem changing, which is the YGO equivalent of basic rares.

MtG doesn't delimitate based as much on the literal rarity of the card and more the context of the printing. Thus you can have two wildly different versions of the same card visually that ignore the literal rarity on the card. For instance, the latter of these is a far more "premium" version despite technically not being a different rarity:
https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/8/2/829e3d6e-5d7c-4cc4-a7a6-7cbf5a7442ba.jpg?1562355759
https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/5/2/526607e9-1907-4639-b944-8ee152c81bfb.jpg?1561757137

Yeah it's basically a question of terminology. In MtG, card "rarity" refers to one of the 4 rarities (common, uncommon, rare, mythic) and the rarity symbol changes colour to indicate these. it's a property of that card's design as a whole rather than of an individual card. Like you would say "cryptic command is a rare" and not "this cryptic command card is a rare". It's basically an indicator of easy/hard it is to find copies of that card

the various sorts of bling operate independently of this scale. things like foil, textless, promo, full art, alternate art, whatever you want to call this thing
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/573315ea.jpg

they've pretty much always been around, although recently there's more different types of them than there used to be

kirbymuncher posted...

I'm a little confused by this article saying they're going to stop doing straight-to-modern but then also saying they expressed desire to do more modern horizons occasionally

Originally all the Universes Beyond were going to be only legal in Eternal formats (Legacy Vintage and EDH) but then they thought "Modern is the most popular (competitive) constructed format lets print The One Ring into that format to sell more cardboard" and it was widely criticized but also extremely fucking popular.

Basically they forced their own hand here, UB sets have been extremely popular both with new players and enfranchised players, but new players might not want to deal with 20 years of cards to jump straight into Modern, so making them Standard legal gives those players an easier entry to competitive games.

ellis123 posted...

MtG doesn't delimitate based as much on the literal rarity of the card and more the context of the printing. Thus you can have two wildly different versions of the same card visually that ignore the literal rarity on the card. For instance, the latter of these is a far more "premium" version despite technically not being a different rarity:
https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/8/2/829e3d6e-5d7c-4cc4-a7a6-7cbf5a7442ba.jpg?1562355759
https://cards.scryfall.io/large/front/5/2/526607e9-1907-4639-b944-8ee152c81bfb.jpg?1561757137

Well the second one wasn't available in packs at all so talking about its "rarity" doesn't make sense.

BewmHedshot posted...

Well the second one wasn't available in packs at all so talking about its "rarity" doesn't make sense.

That was my point. It is printed with Rare as its rarity, but for all other purposes it really isn't the same at all. Hence why MtG doesn't really categorize correctly at all in terms of "premium-ness" if you are just looking at what rarity the base card is printed as. A similar bit would be the rarity of a card printed in an EDH pre-con: the rarity is pointless as it's all the same in terms of actual rarity.

Cartoon_Quoter posted...

This makes an already absolutely miserable Standard go from 9-12 sets to 13-18. Most games are already decided by turn 4. Aggro decks already have turn 2 wins.

And I had someone try to get me back in the game recently by telling me the meta has slowed down and there aren't turn 2 win/scoop conditions anymore.

Should have known better.

DnDer posted...

And I had someone try to get me back in the game recently by telling me the meta has slowed down and there aren't turn 2 win/scoop conditions anymore.

Should have known better.

At the FNM level the game is fine.

It's Arena that is screwed.

Oh no, not only lasting to turn four. That's so terrible.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Oh no, not only lasting to turn four. That's so terrible.

YGO players having wet dreams realizing that we're talking about turn eight.

Marvel Secret Lair went to scalpers.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Y'all have room for another player? I think I'd like to get in on that. If not, it's cool

WingsOfGood posted...

Marvel Secret Lair went to scalpers.

who ever could have seen this one coming

Haven't played Magic in a decade. Is mono blue Delver still a thing?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c067fe1a.jpg

It's playable in pauper but that's basically it. Pretty tragic as its coming marked a period where there was a lot of dooming about how bad of a thing it was going to be for multiples of formats (which it definitely turned out to be) to end up basically being unplayable in Legacy.

Delver as a card is almost completely dead

Delver as a tempo archetype very much lives on in legacy.