Current Events > Cliffy B isn't feeling LoZ: Echoes of Wisdom

(+) Yeah! (+)

tbh, I'm surprised whenever a developer publicly criticizes a game, unless if it's somehow offensive and/or lazily made.

not to say that they have to like everything, but that they should at least respect the hustle

https://Twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/1847356500424982937

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/f/f1032134.jpg

I mean I'm not really into echoes of wisdom myself. It happens, lol.

I've not played it, so I might actually like it, but I will admit my hype died a little when I saw it wasn't a traditional Zelda game.

one man giving a fair opinion. i dont see a problem here occifer

I didn't say that there was a problem, just that I was surprised.

personally, I'm not interested in Echoes of Wisdom (not to say anything about its quality, but I'm waiting for the next BotW, TotK, etc. level of the series), but it's rare, from my experience, for people in the industry to publicly call out highly regarded games because they might not be what they were looking for.

and I think it's also interesting because of that.

idk i prefer having more focused puzzles and design over more freeform stuff

I couldn't care less about Cliffy B's opinion on anything.

Thats an exceedingly tame take

Well obviously. Classic Zelda was about stacking crates on top of other crates, and burning trees.

This benches and pushing business is a bridge too far

I'm not really a fan of the current direction of the Zelda series. I liked BotW well enough but the novelty had worn off by the end and I felt TotK just to be a pretty miserable experience for me. Echoes kind of looks more of the same but with a limited scope. I've been enjoying the Warriors spin-offs more.

It's been a long time since we had a traditional 3D Zelda, all the way back with Twilight Princess. Skyward Sword I'm not sure I count because of forced motion controls and the overworld itself being a massive dungeon except for the one town, though I did enjoy the regular dungeons and bosses.

This guy couldn't make a game to safe his life. Of course he wouldn't know a good game if it hit him in the face.

i would be kind of interested in a BotW/TotK shrine-maker spinoff

It's kind of a dumb reduction. It's still puzzle solving. Does he feel the same way about tears of the kingdom?

It has to be something different with this one? So, what's different?

It's my game of the year, easily, he just needs better taste.

No, in all seriousness, he isn't being a dick about it like David Jaffe with Metroid Dread, so whatevers, people not liking stuff happens and that's okay

I understand what youre saying but with this particularly I am not surprised. The shift in direction the Zelda franchise has done has divided people pretty heavily. I feel anyone thinking it was confined to the BotW games and not an overall franchise push will be extra outspoken now with Echoes release.

too many crates

But Echoes is 100% a traditional Zelda, it really felt like it. It's a 9.5/10, with the dungeons being kinda simplistic being my sole complaint

Baron_Ox posted...

I didn't say that there was a problem, just that I was surprised.

personally, I'm not interested in Echoes of Wisdom (not to say anything about its quality, but I'm waiting for the next BotW, TotK, etc. level of the series), but it's rare, from my experience, for people in the industry to publicly call out highly regarded games because they might not be what they were looking for.

and I think it's also interesting because of that.

Except Cliff isn't in the video game industry anymore. Though TBF he's far better known for that than his comic book or producing Hadestown on Broadway.

anttttt posted...

idk i prefer having more focused puzzles and design over more freeform stuff

Iono man, i've begun disagreeing with this take more'n more. I'd take a masterfully crafted dungeon design vs. "hey u can solve this more than 1 way!" type of dungeon. EoW is by far the weakest 2D Zelda dungeon wise.

DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC posted...

Except Cliff isn't in the video game industry anymore. Though TBF he's far better known for that than his comic book or producing Hadestown on Broadway.

thanks for the update.

the last time I heard about him, before this, was some shooter (?) he was working on, but that was probably a few years ago

edit: it was LawBreakers

AbstraktProfSC2 posted...

one man giving a fair opinion. i dont see a problem here occifer

This.

Cant Nintendo just go back to the classic formula thanks

Well, I thought it delivered pretty good on both action and adventure. And it still feels and plays like traditional Zelda.

But at least he's just giving an honest opinion about something he didn't like, as opposed to how David Jaffe reacts to stuff.

YoungMutual posted...

But Echoes is 100% a traditional Zelda, it really felt like it. It's a 9.5/10, with the dungeons being kinda simplistic being my sole complaint

Yeah this

to me it felt like they finally figured out how to balance the freedom theyve wanted to give players since Link Between Worlds and the traditional Zelda experience of new items (in this case echoes) and a variety of dungeons

It's a fair enough criticism. There are a lot of different Zelda styles now and they're not all going to appeal to everyone

luigi33 posted...

I'd take a masterfully crafted dungeon design vs. "hey u can solve this more than 1 way!" type of dungeon.

is this not what people took away from my post? i agree with you

I liked it a lot, but it still isn't as good as LTTP.

Probably reminds him of the millions he'd be making if he was still at Epic.
Baron_Ox posted...

thanks for the update.

the last time I heard about him, before this, was some shooter (?) he was working on, but that was probably a few years ago

edit: it was LawBreakers

His studio made Radical Heights after that.

While I think his take is either overly reduces the gameplay or means he just isn't very far into the game yet, the fundamental criticism isn't invalid. EoW doesn't play like your standard 2D Zelda. You aren't slashing things with swords or shooting them with arrows. And if that's what you love about Zelda, the game is never going to scratch that itch.

That said, despite that the game 100% feels like a Zelda game. It might play different but the feel and tone is 100% 2D Zelda and it is absolutely astounding that Nintendo was able to nail that while simultaneously overhauling the main gameplay mechanics.

If you cant enjoy stunning a boss and then summoning a gang of moblins to beat the shit out of it with clubs then I cant relate to you.