Current Events > They finally got the exploration balance just right with Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom

(+) Yeah! (+)

Feels like this is what theyve been building to since nintendo started experimenting with freedom in the LoZ formula with A Link Between Worlds.

in that game, the rental system gave freedom but no true sense of progression once you were able to buy everything

in BotW/TotK you can go everywhere right away, but at the expense of being given all your abilities right off the batand ultimately imo the game design doesnt feel like a Zelda game even with the more fleshed out dungeons of TotK

Echoes of Wisdom feels like a traditional Zelda game, has a true sense of progression (as you unlock more and more echoes and abilities along the way), and yet still gives you the freedom to go basically anywhere right off the bat

super impressed with what they pulled off here

The first Zelda did all that first :V

Meanwhile it's the game that finally made me give up on the series.

Nice, sounds good!

Turbam posted...

The first Zelda did all that first :V

Problem was most of the game (assuming you didn't have a map or couldn't find something online) was trying to figure out where the dungeons were, as nothing hinted at where they were.

I do agree the game's dungeons were nicely designed (for the time of course) compared to the recent open world games, which largely didn't have dungeons.

I went and explored the whole world before even doing the second dungeon and while it was fun, it probably wouldve been better to play the game more linearly. lol

I got some powerful monsters but some were so powerful that I couldnt even summon them yet. And when you get to some areas that youre not meant to go to yet, the towns folk are all like Theres nothing happening here yet. Why did you come here?

TheGoldenEel posted...

Feels like this is what theyve been building to since nintendo started experimenting with freedom in the LoZ formula with A Link Between Worlds.

in that game, the rental system gave freedom but no true sense of progression once you were able to buy everything

in BotW/TotK you can go everywhere right away, but at the expense of being given all your abilities right off the batand ultimately imo the game design doesnt feel like a Zelda game even with the more fleshed out dungeons of TotK

Echoes of Wisdom feels like a traditional Zelda game, has a true sense of progression (as you unlock more and more echoes and abilities along the way), and yet still gives you the freedom to go basically anywhere right off the bat

super impressed with what they pulled off here

You can't literally go anywhere. Only the over world is fully accessible. The areas that are locked off are done so in a similar fashion to the first game like how you needed the raft for one dungeon, ladder for another, and recorder for a third so you couldn't do things in literally any order but had lots of options to explore while making progress at the same time. It's the game that most closely resembles the original's freedom.

While BotW/TotK tried to emulate it, they gave far more freedom than what was originally permitted. The top down format additionally makes EoW a true to form return to roots.

I'm over halfway done with it, but I did enjoy the exploration. I kind of wish there was a hidden surprise area like the Depths or the Eastern Hyrule continent in Zelda 2: AoL. Just something more to do, since the game is rather short.

My biggest gripe, performance issues aside, is that some of the caves that contain puzzles lead you to a chest that contains worthless smoothie ingredients. Speaking of smoothies, they are fun to discover but they make potions and fairies in bottles worthless. For 10 rupees and easily obtained ingredients you can spam healing over and over, just like BotW or TotK.

kelemvor posted...

I'm over halfway done with it, but I did enjoy the exploration. I kind of wish there was a hidden surprise area like the Depths or the Eastern Hyrule continent in Zelda 2: AoL. Just something more to do, since the game is rather short.

My biggest gripe, performance issues aside, is that some of the caves that contain puzzles lead you to a chest that contains worthless smoothie ingredients. Speaking of smoothies, they are fun to discover but they make potions and fairies in bottles worthless. For 10 rupees and easily obtained ingredients you can spam healing over and over, just like BotW or TotK.

It might have helped if you could only carry like three smoothies at a time and if they made them more expensive, but even then you can still spawn a bed at any time and completely heal (as long as youre not in battle).

Its weird seeing them try to fix this issue when it wasnt really an issue in the games before BOTW.

Evolician posted...

It might have helped if you could only carry like three smoothies at a time and if they made them more expensive, but even then you can still spawn a bed at any time and completely heal (as long as youre not in battle).

Its weird seeing them try to fix this issue when it wasnt really an issue in the games before BOTW.

I keep forgetting you can do that. I even have Zelda's pajamas so it heals double the hearts.

kelemvor posted...

I keep forgetting you can do that. I even have Zelda's pajamas so it heals double the hearts.

I'm pretty sure those are Dohna's pyjamas and she's loaning them out to Zelda.

I just got a Level 3 Echo by wandering too far in Faron Wetlands lol

I can't even fucking summon it

zelda 2 best zelda

Bio1590 posted...

I just got a Level 3 Echo by wandering too far in Faron Wetlands lol

I can't even fucking summon it

Thats another thing I appreciate; they give you something to look forward to by gating certain echo abilities

TheGoldenEel posted...

Thats another thing I appreciate; they give you something to look forward to by gating certain echo abilities

This whole place is full of them I have a feeling I missed something >_>

Evolician posted...

It might have helped if you could only carry like three smoothies at a time and if they made them more expensive, but even then you can still spawn a bed at any time and completely heal (as long as youre not in battle).

Its weird seeing them try to fix this issue when it wasnt really an issue in the games before BOTW.

I don't think they were trying to fix any issue in particular, they just wanted to keep rolling with a system similar to BOTW/TOTK as far as crafting goes. I don't mind them being so OP because I'm not necessarily looking for the game to be as challenging as past 2D Zeldas. I do think where the system is flawed is that bottles have become a near worthless reward when in past Zelda games they are one of the most satisfying rewards you can get. They only hold fairies now, and death isn't something that occurs particularly often.

I think maybe the way it should have been done is have a couple more obtainable bottles, but smoothies and potions would have to occupy those bottles. This could keep the smoothies but also make bottles a very meaningful reward again.

I love it. I think it's way better than BOTW and TOTK. They found a good balance finally. I'm on the final two dungeons before the last end dungeon. My only complaint is the seemingly endless side scrolling portions

Also playing on hero mode means death is quite often tbqh. Especially early game when things can literally one shot you