Current Events > In the wake of modern remakes, I think we should update our terminology.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Baha05 posted...

intentions of a creator

intentions of a creator is not how you classify things

a creator has no say in how it is classified, maybe that is your error here? you think they are infallible and right

WingsOfGood posted...

intentions of a creator is not how you classify things

It is when it comes to media based things. Hell where exactly are you seeing this classification coming from?

Baha05 posted...

It is when it comes to media based things.

again that is not how classification works

WingsOfGood posted...

again that is not how classification works

Doubt you saw the edit but where does this classification come from now?

Baha05 posted...

Doubt you saw the edit but where does this classification come from now?

we are on gamefaqs and you can search rpgs

how do you think that is done?

if Kojima says Death Stranding is an rpg gamefaqs throws it into rpgs?
nope

WingsOfGood posted...

we are on gamefaqs and you can search rpgs

how do you think that is done?

if Kojima says Death Stranding is an rpg gamefaqs throws it into rpgs?
nope

So where is this classification for what determines what a remake is versus reimagined work?

Baha05 posted...

So where is this classification for what determines what a remake is versus reimagined work?

first you determine what makes an rpg
then you see if Death Stranding has these

you don't listen to Kojima or care about his intention

so we use the formula provided by the experts that I gave you about what makes a remake vs. a reimagining

it has nothing to do with intention or what Square wants it to be called

that is how classification works

Baha05 posted...

Because again intentions of a creator is going to vary widely here.

even you admit there is issue going off creator intentions

classification solves this by not giving a shit what they think and just going off a basic formula

WingsOfGood posted...

first you determine what makes an rpg
then you see if Death Stranding has these

you don't listen to Kojima or care about his intention

so we use the formula provided by the experts that I gave you about what makes a remake vs. a reimagining

it has nothing to do with intention or what Square wants it to be called

that is how classification works

So again where is this classification on rather or not something is a remake versus reimagined work?

Ok so in music, creating a record is known as mastering. The original record from which other records are pressed is known as the master.

Now with the advent of the digital age and the fact that vinyl deteriorates over time even when kept in impeccable condition, and the overall low resolution of vinyl, some musicians saw it fit to upgrade the sound quality of their old stuff.

This was done by outputting the master to a digital format and applying post processing enhancements, and then creating a new master--the "re-master." Sometimes they'll use the opportunity to tack on a B-side to an album that didn't have it previously but even if they do the extra track still adheres to the same structure.

"Taylor's version" records don't go through that process. In order to make them legally distinct, she had to recreate the entire song from scratch. She made wholly new records that just used her old sheet music and lyrics. She "remade" them.

Baha05 posted...

So again where is this classification on rather or not something is a remake versus reimagined work?

Are you asking if some website has done this? The classification is the general population of gamers understand words.

See poster above and what they says:

FF7 would also fit here if it wasn't actually a stealth sequel/spinoff.

Why however do they come to this conclusion? How do they know what a sequel or a spinoff is?

It is just general knowledge. The same is with remakes and only a small fraction of gamers try to be contrarian here. Like I said, you go to FF7 Rebirth board and literally right now a thread is people arguing this very point.

"b-b-but just because the majority believes something doesn't mean it is right!" if you truly think that you don't get classification

Tyranthraxus posted...

"Taylor's version" records don't go through that process. In order to make them legally distinct, she had to recreate the entire song from scratch. She made wholly new records that just used her old sheet music and lyrics. She "remade" them.

Yet they are the same songs with the same notes.
Now what if she instead completely changed the words of her Juliet and Romeo song? What if she started rapping about Kanye in the song?

Makes you think.

WingsOfGood posted...

Are you asking if some website has done this? The classification is the general population of gamers understand words.

See poster above and what they says:

Why however do they come to this conclusion? How do they know what a sequel or a spinoff is?

It is just general knowledge. The same is with remakes and only a small fraction of gamers try to be contrarian here. Like I said, you go to FF7 board and literally right now a thread is people arguing this very point.

"b-b-but just because the majority believes something doesn't mean it is right!" if you truly think that you don't get classification

So you are claiming a classification exists for these things in general that can determine what a remake and a reimagined work is yet cannot provide where this things exists except that it is gamers that somehow have the say here? Idk that sounds pretty much like there is nothing solid that really can cement anything and is a part of the problem from the gamer side because it has to circumvent what creators say.

I mean hell a majority isnt always going to be right and you cant even really prove this is a thing a majority of people are even agreeing with in the first place.

Baha05 posted...

has to circumvent what creators say.

What they say literally has no meaning. You realize they said a lot of things that were false?

A simple poll. Did the devs lie? Majority says they did.

A quick glance provides an objective source we can scientifically test.
https://www.gematsu.com/2015/06/final-fantasy-vii-remake-wont-have-new-characters

Will the scenario change or new characters appear?
There wont be new characters. As for the visual taste, were doing them to match todays visuals and appear closer to reality.

They said there would be no new characters. Are there new characters Baha? Are there?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/168653-final-fantasy-vii-remake/80012103

Stop putting them on a pedestal.

WingsOfGood posted...

What they say literally has no meaning. You realize they said a lot of things that were false?

A simple poll. Did the devs lie? Majority says they did.

A quick glance provides an objective source we can scientifically test.
https://www.gematsu.com/2015/06/final-fantasy-vii-remake-wont-have-new-characters

They said there would be no new characters. Are there new characters Baha? Are there?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/168653-final-fantasy-vii-remake/80012103

Stop putting them on a pedestal.

So your one example is a 2015 article? Also still no word on a classification that determines the difference.

Also do not mistake me pointing out the game as a remake as putting SE on a pedestal this is exactly why you are coming across as someone arguing in bad faith.

Baha05 posted...

So your one example is a 2015 article?

???

Point is you believe they are they arbiter of truth when we can prove they lied.
Who gives a shit what they claim the game is, that means nothing.
Anyone can play it and see for themselves.

And we see what happens when they do. As said multiple times ITT by users who aren't me:

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


There is the classification system. You can't see it? Why not? All these other people can see it and understand it. Not sure why you can't.

Baha05 posted...

arguing in bad faith.

You don't actually understand what this means do you?
What exactly is my malicious intent? What does me proving that words aren't malleable as you suggest they are do that is bad?
I have faith in language, you want people to be able make words mean what they want for their own nefarious reasons such as selling more copies of a game.
You literally claim words are beholden to intention rather than reality.

WingsOfGood posted...

Yet they are the same songs with the same notes.
Now what if she instead completely changed the words of her Juliet and Romeo song? What if she started rapping about Kanye in the song?

Makes you think.

I don't really understand these questions so I'm not really thinking about it either.

WingsOfGood posted...

???

Point is you believe they are they arbiter of truth when we can prove they lied.
Who gives a shit what they claim the game is, that means nothing.
Anyone can play it and see for themselves.

And we see what happens when they do. As said multiple times ITT by users who aren't me:

There is the classification system. You can't see it? Why not? All these other people can see it and understand it. Not sure why you can't.

WingsOfGood posted...

???

Point is you believe they are they arbiter of truth when we can prove they lied.
Who gives a shit what they claim the game is, that means nothing.
Anyone can play it and see for themselves.

And we see what happens when they do. As said multiple times ITT by users who aren't me:

There is the classification system. You can't see it? Why not? All these other people can see it and understand it. Not sure why you can't.

Its an older article that may have been relevant at one point but developers can change things and during development things can be added in. The fact is that you still present nothing that really classifies it as one or the other because that doesnt exist to tell the difference here its all based around opinions.

Baha05 posted...

So your one example is a 2015 article? Also still no word on a classification that determines the difference.

Also do not mistake me pointing out the game as a remake as putting SE on a pedestal this is exactly why you are coming across as someone arguing in bad faith.

FFS just take the L and move on. You lost this argument like 100 posts ago.

WingsOfGood posted...

You don't actually understand what this means do you?
What exactly is my malicious intent? What does me proving that words aren't malleable as you suggest they are do that is bad?
I have faith in language, you want people to be able make words mean what they want for their own nefarious reasons such as selling more copies of a game.

Yes I do and that doesnt negate the fact you purposely cut that from the full quote in where I call your bullshit for making it seem like I am putting SE on this untouchable height.

MrMolinaro posted...

FFS just take the L and move on. You lost this argument like 100 posts ago.

It wouldnt be an L if there wasnt that inherent bias for something people cannot even agree on and would rather misuse words in the first place.

MrMolinaro posted...

FFS just take the L and move on. You lost this argument like 100 posts ago.

Thanks. I will move on for their behalf.

I will reiterate what I just said though:

You literally claim words are beholden to intention rather than reality.

Words are not beholden to the intention of a developer. They could have fully intended to make a remake but in reality they did not. No one cares what they intended only what is the actual real world result.

WingsOfGood posted...

Thanks. I will move on for their behalf.

I will reiterate what I just said though:

Words are not beholden to the intention of a developer. They could have fully intended to make a remake but in reality they did not. No one cares what they intended only what is the actual real world result.

Whatever you say then. I guess the next time anything dealing with censorship will just have to be ignored if the creators choose to make those changes. Fuck creative rights and all that guys.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

ITP Im going to use the word shill incorrectly to insult Baha.

Baha05 posted...

Whatever you say then.

It is not up to me, nor is it up to you, that is the whole point of faith in language. What is an RPG? It is clearly defined. I didn't define it. You cannot say it is malleable and start calling things that aren't RPG that just because you want to.
I mean you CAN, but when you do people go "umm that is not an RPG" which is what we see happened with FF7r.

Baha05 posted...

*** creative rights and all that guys.

wtf does that have anything to do with the argument over a defintion of word

WingsOfGood posted...

It is not up to me, nor is it up to you, that is the whole point of faith in language. What is an RPG? It is clearly defined. I didn't define it. You cannot say it is malleable and start calling things that aren't RPG that just because you want to.
I mean you CAN, but when you do people go "umm that is not an RPG" which is what we see happened with FF7r.

wtf does that have anything to do with the argument over a defintion of word

RPGs are shorts for Role Playing Games which has several subsets that we all are aware of. The problem isnt from rather or not something is classified as an RPG here but people flip flopping between the words Remake, Reimagining, Remaster and how these sorts of things can vary so damn heavily that there is almost always going to be some arguments surrounding the words. Despite the fact that we at least can come to some good conclusions or even compromises.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I mean that shit happens here too in just about every topic critical of Pokemon or Nintendo

Some people just can't help but feed into it

One of these days I'm gonna learn to just not give examples at all and let people whine their asses off about it.

IMO:

Reboot - Significantly changes the story and/or gameplay while retaining major aspects of the original work. Example: FF7 Remake, Tomb Raider reboots
Remake - May have minor changes, new features, noticable differences in physics, etc, but still feels like it's the same game. Example: Crash Bandicoot N Sane Trilogy; Oddworld New n Tasty
Remaster - Exactly or almost exactly the same game, just with improved graphics / audio. Example: Spyro Reignited Trilogy, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster