Current Events > Vivian confirmed trans for paper Mario

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UnholyMudcrab 05/21/24 3:39:04 PM #54:	Remember, though, this guy is motivated solely by a totally legitimate desire to get the most accurate translation possible, and absolutely nothing else. --- http://i.imgur.com/VeNBg.gif http://i.imgur.com/gd5jC8q.gif http://i.imgur.com/PKIy7.gif http://i.imgur.com/3p29JqP.gif <cite>UnholyMudcrab posted [p:980494647] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Remember, though, this guy is motivated solely by a totally legitimate desire to get the most accurate translation possible, and absolutely nothing else. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Murphiroth 05/21/24 3:43:42 PM #56:	Good faith poster continuing to post in good faith, I see. I see that the deflection for this will be similar to Bridget in GG; "she's just a femboy!" Anything to erase trans representation. <cite>Murphiroth posted [p:980494708] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Good faith poster continuing to post in good faith, I see. I see that the deflection for this will be similar to Bridget in GG; "she's just a femboy!"Anything to erase trans representation.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Hejiru 05/21/24 3:46:01 PM #58:	Dude, its not like we have the Japanese screenshot just lying around. Somebody would have to go find a Japanese lets play or something and screenshot that moment. And since youre the one who cares so much about it, it might as well be you. --- The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense. <cite>Hejiru posted [p:980494747] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Dude, its not like we have the Japanese screenshot just lying around. Somebody would have to go find a Japanese lets play or something and screenshot that moment. And since youre the one who cares so much about it, it might as well be you. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Murphiroth 05/21/24 3:48:33 PM #60:	pokedude900 posted... TBH, I'm starting to get the feeling that people don't even care whether she was trans in the original or not and just want any excuse to have her be trans in the English release. Femboys also exist, you know. Does it not matter if they're represented? Really showing that you're a good faith poster with this one! Very convincing. But... [LFAQs-redacted-quote] <cite>Murphiroth posted [p:980494793] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>TBH, I'm starting to get the feeling that people don't even care whether she was trans in the original or not and just want any excuse to have her be trans in the English release. Femboys also exist, you know. Does it not matter if they're represented?</quote>Really showing that you're a good faith poster with this one! Very convincing. But...<cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pokedude900 05/21/24 3:48:36 PM #61:	Hejiru posted... Dude, its not like we have the Japanese screenshot just lying around. Somebody would have to go find a Japanese lets play or something and screenshot that moment. And since youre the one who cares so much about it, it might as well be you. The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. That's how debates work. I'll make it easy for you. This scene is about halfway through chapter 4. --- https://i.imgur.com/lfI7zGE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tgLNUuX.jpg Come to the (un)official GameFAQs Touhou board. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1110- <cite>pokedude900 posted [p:980494795] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Hejiru posted...</cite><quote>Dude, its not like we have the Japanese screenshot just lying around. Somebody would have to go find a Japanese lets play or something and screenshot that moment. And since youre the one who cares so much about it, it might as well be you. </quote>The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. That's how debates work.I'll make it easy for you. This scene is about halfway through chapter 4. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
epik_fail1 05/21/24 3:49:24 PM #62:	wackyteen posted... Vivian was originally just written/translated straight up as a girl without any hints toward being trans, right? Is that where the censorship was? It's been a while since I played TTYD. If I remember correctly, she was body shamed instead --- Why an I still on this website? <cite>epik_fail1 posted [p:980494807] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>wackyteen posted... </cite><quote>Vivian was originally just written/translated straight up as a girl without any hints toward being trans, right? Is that where the censorship was? It's been a while since I played TTYD.</quote>If I remember correctly, she was body shamed instead </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HylianFox 05/21/24 3:52:01 PM #63:	epik_fail1 posted... If I remember correctly, she was body shamed instead Yeah, the original English version just has generic insults like "you're ugly" The Japanese version has them mock her for being a boy. --- THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK Do not write in this space. <cite>HylianFox posted [p:980494837] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>epik_fail1 posted... </cite><quote>If I remember correctly, she was body shamed instead</quote>Yeah, the original English version just has generic insults like "you're ugly"The Japanese version has them mock her for being a boy. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
epik_fail1 05/21/24 3:54:13 PM #64:	BDSMKane posted... Anti censorship here! Why would I have a problem with this? Are you anti censorship. Or an anti censorship grifter? --- Why an I still on this website? <cite>epik_fail1 posted [p:980494866] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>BDSMKane posted... </cite><quote>Anti censorship here!Why would I have a problem with this?</quote>Are you anti censorship.Or an anti censorship grifter? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranAures 05/21/24 3:56:05 PM #65:	Vivian being trans in the remake is by and far closer to her character in the original than her original translation. An individual who regularly self-identifies as female, presents as female, but has everyone else go "lol still a dude" and has people in her life that shout her down when she "slips up." --- Just because I have 99% of a heart doesn't mean it can't kill me. It's tried. Twice. My body has a dongle and my heart doesn't care. He/They <cite>GranAures posted [p:980494888] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Vivian being trans in the remake is by and far closer to her character in the original than her original translation. An individual who regularly self-identifies as female, presents as female, but has everyone else go "lol still a dude" and has people in her life that shout her down when she "slips up." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MuscleRobo 05/21/24 3:57:53 PM #66:	Really glad they didn't localize this for a foreign audience. Come on Nintendo we can handle the actual script! <cite>MuscleRobo posted [p:980494922] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Really glad they didn't localize this for a foreign audience. Come on Nintendo we can handle the actual script!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Storm101 05/21/24 4:01:06 PM #67:	Here is the moment Vivian where Vivian calls herself her a sister. https://www.youtube.com/live/R3HGK1d-tss?si=0XjSG1t_r3zm053o&t=8572 The line is translated on this page: https://tcrf.net/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door/Regional_Differences#Vivian Vivian identifies as female. That is literally all that matters. <cite>Storm101 posted [p:980494978] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Here is the moment Vivian where Vivian calls herself her a sister. https://www.youtube.com/live/R3HGK1d-tss?si=0XjSG1t_r3zm053o&t=8572The line is translated on this page: https://tcrf.net/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door/Regional_Differences#VivianVivian identifies as female. That is literally all that matters.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KajeI 05/21/24 4:01:52 PM #68:	pokedude900 posted... The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. That's how debates work. I'll make it easy for you. This scene is about halfway through chapter 4. Why don't you go find a japanese "copy" and find it yourself? Someone as dedicated to getting accurate translations as you should have no problem finding the moment you're looking for in question, and it'd certainly be faster than begging for someone else to do it on the internet. --- Look, I can name a few instances in MY life where I tried to reach mutual understanding and i can TELL you, always faster and easier to just kill em. Just is! <cite>KajeI posted [p:980494993] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. That's how debates work.I'll make it easy for you. This scene is about halfway through chapter 4.</quote>Why don't you go find a japanese "copy" and find it yourself? Someone as dedicated to getting accurate translations as you should have no problem finding the moment you're looking for in question, and it'd certainly be faster than begging for someone else to do it on the internet. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DocileOrangeCup 05/21/24 4:02:14 PM #69:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/819a90e1.jpg --- https://imgur.com/kHnd6lr https://imgur.com/uG042id https://imgur.com/tIfDfZH https://imgur.com/xhtRl8w https://imgur.com/ggQozRe https://tinyurl.com/Corn-420 <cite>DocileOrangeCup posted [p:980494998] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/819a90e1.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Error1355 05/21/24 4:03:26 PM #70:	Storm101 posted... Here is the moment Vivian where Vivian calls herself her a sister. https://www.youtube.com/live/R3HGK1d-tss?si=0XjSG1t_r3zm053o&t=8572 The line is translated on this page: https://tcrf.net/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door/Regional_Differences#Vivian Vivian identifies as female. That is literally all that matters. I'd say this should count as proof enough to anyone coming to this discussion in actual good faith. --- I'm a long, long way from giving up Call me old-fashioned, call me a fool <cite>Error1355 posted [p:980495016] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Storm101 posted... </cite><quote>Here is the moment Vivian where Vivian calls herself her a sister. https://www.youtube.com/live/R3HGK1d-tss?si=0XjSG1t_r3zm053o&t=8572The line is translated on this page: https://tcrf.net/Paper_Mario:_The_Thousand-Year_Door/Regional_Differences#VivianVivian identifies as female. That is literally all that matters.</quote>I'd say this should count as proof enough to anyone coming to this discussion in actual good faith. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HashtagSEP 05/21/24 4:04:00 PM #71:	pokedude900 posted... TBH, I'm starting to get the feeling that people don't even care whether she was trans in the original or not and just want any excuse to have her be trans in the English release. Yep, and there it is. This poster was never posting in good faith. Proof was provided, and they've just continually responded with "Well, it COULD mean..." --- #SEP #Awesome #Excellent #Greatness #SteveNash #VitaminWater #SmellingLikeTheVault #Pigeon #Sexy #ActuallyAVeryIntelligentVelociraptor #Heel #CoolSpot #EndOfSig <cite>HashtagSEP posted [p:980495023] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>TBH, I'm starting to get the feeling that people don't even care whether she was trans in the original or not and just want any excuse to have her be trans in the English release.</quote>Yep, and there it is. This poster was never posting in good faith. Proof was provided, and they've just continually responded with "Well, it COULD mean..." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GranAures 05/21/24 4:10:29 PM #75:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Nor consistently used. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the trans characters that exist in Japanese media are not directly, consistently, referred to as trans in their works. --- Just because I have 99% of a heart doesn't mean it can't kill me. It's tried. Twice. My body has a dongle and my heart doesn't care. He/They <cite>GranAures posted [p:980495127] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> Nor consistently used. I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the trans characters that exist in Japanese media are not directly, consistently, referred to as trans in their works. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Trumble 05/21/24 4:12:27 PM #76:	STEROLIZER posted... Its one thing if a character with decades of established lore goes through a cannon overhaul. Its another for just a random side character. I wouldn't really call Vivian a "random side character". She's ~~a significant villian at first, and a party member later on.~~ --- I fought the Trumble and the Trumble won. <cite>Trumble posted [p:980495159] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>STEROLIZER posted... </cite><quote>Its one thing if a character with decades of established lore goes through a cannon overhaul. Its another for just a random side character.</quote>I wouldn't really call Vivian a "random side character". She's a significant villian at first, and a party member later on. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Raiden2909 05/21/24 4:13:29 PM #77:	https://www.youtube.com/live/sKTER65aKjw 2 hours and 42 minutes in, Should be the scene in the first Picture from the OP, Can't read Japanese to be sure <cite>Raiden2909 posted [p:980495179] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/live/sKTER65aKjw2 hours and 42 minutes in, Should be the scene in the first Picture from the OP, Can't read Japanese to be sure </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HashtagSEP 05/21/24 4:14:11 PM #78:	pokedude900 posted... It's certainly a point in favor, but nevermind femboys, I've seen gay guys refer to each other as sisters. Again, all I want is a screenshot of the line in the OP. That is what I've been asking for since the beginning. Literally jumping through hoops to deny it, at this point. --- #SEP #Awesome #Excellent #Greatness #SteveNash #VitaminWater #SmellingLikeTheVault #Pigeon #Sexy #ActuallyAVeryIntelligentVelociraptor #Heel #CoolSpot #EndOfSig <cite>HashtagSEP posted [p:980495193] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>It's certainly a point in favor, but nevermind femboys, I've seen gay guys refer to each other as sisters.Again, all I want is a screenshot of the line in the OP. That is what I've been asking for since the beginning.</quote>Literally jumping through hoops to deny it, at this point. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Axiom 05/21/24 4:15:01 PM #79:	Dear god no not that Oh wait this changes nothing for me <cite>Axiom posted [p:980495208] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Dear god no not thatOh wait this changes nothing for me</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
McMarbles 05/21/24 4:26:15 PM #80:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] These people care as deeply about femboy erasure as the folks angry about the new Assassin's Creed care deeply about Yasuke's historical accuracy. --- Currently playing: Rune Factory 5 (Switch) Never befriend a man in sandals and always measure twice, cut once. <cite>McMarbles posted [p:980495364] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> These people care as deeply about femboy erasure as the folks angry about the new Assassin's Creed care deeply about Yasuke's historical accuracy. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ClayGuida 05/21/24 4:26:58 PM #81:	Hope this doesn't turn the frogs gay. --- lolAmerica <cite>ClayGuida posted [p:980495372] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Hope this doesn't turn the frogs gay. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Gobstoppers12 05/21/24 4:33:46 PM #84:	pokedude900 posted... So everyone claiming this is accurate to the original script owes me an apology. Shut the fuck up --- (He/Him) I write Naruto Fanfiction. But I am definitely not a furry. <cite>Gobstoppers12 posted [p:980495483] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>So everyone claiming this is accurate to the original script owes me an apology.</quote>Shut the fuck up </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pokedude900 05/21/24 4:37:42 PM #85:	So you don't actually care about accuracy. then? Gobstoppers12 posted... Honestly this is a win for the people who want things translated in their original tone and meaning. People who oppose "woke translators" should be very happy about this. It has been demonstratively proven that this line is not true to the original script. Just because it's trying to send a positive message doesn't mean it's a good translation. --- https://i.imgur.com/lfI7zGE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tgLNUuX.jpg Come to the (un)official GameFAQs Touhou board. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1110- <cite>pokedude900 posted [p:980495542] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>So you don't actually care about accuracy. then?Gobstoppers12 posted...</cite><quote>Honestly this is a win for the people who want things translated in their original tone and meaning. People who oppose "woke translators" should be very happy about this. </quote>It has been demonstratively proven that this line is not true to the original script. Just because it's trying to send a positive message doesn't mean it's a good translation. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranAures 05/21/24 4:37:49 PM #86:	McMarbles posted... These people care as deeply about femboy erasure as the folks angry about the new Assassin's Creed care deeply about Yasuke's historical accuracy. I bet he was equally upset at Vivian being a cis woman in the original english release. --- Just because I have 99% of a heart doesn't mean it can't kill me. It's tried. Twice. My body has a dongle and my heart doesn't care. He/They <cite>GranAures posted [p:980495543] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>McMarbles posted... </cite><quote>These people care as deeply about femboy erasure as the folks angry about the new Assassin's Creed care deeply about Yasuke's historical accuracy.</quote>I bet he was equally upset at Vivian being a cis woman in the original english release. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pokedude900 05/21/24 4:39:00 PM #87:	pokedude900 posted... And I do not like how the original English version scrubbed all references to it. --- https://i.imgur.com/lfI7zGE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tgLNUuX.jpg Come to the (un)official GameFAQs Touhou board. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1110- <cite>pokedude900 posted [p:980495560] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted...</cite><quote>And I do not like how the original English version scrubbed all references to it.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 05/21/24 4:42:35 PM #88:	[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Yeah and it's a classic TERF Talking point. A variation of the "Trans activists are erasing tomboys" claim. It is bullshit. --- "Intelligence has no place in Politics" Londo, (Babylon Five) Best new show of 2023, One Piece live action. <cite>creativerealms posted [p:980495611] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote><cite>[LFAQs-redacted-quote]</cite> Yeah and it's a classic TERF Talking point. A variation of the "Trans activists are erasing tomboys" claim. It is bullshit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BDSMKane 05/21/24 4:46:13 PM #89:	epik_fail1 posted... Are you anti censorship. Or an anti censorship grifter? I said Im anti censorship. But Ill be labeled an anti censorship grifter as soon as I say something you dont like. --- No matter our origin, we are all one family, we all share one planet, and we all need to feel loved and accepted. We are more alike than different. <cite>BDSMKane posted [p:980495663] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>epik_fail1 posted... </cite><quote>Are you anti censorship.Or an anti censorship grifter?</quote>I said Im anti censorship. But Ill be labeled an anti censorship grifter as soon as I say something you dont like. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
epik_fail1 05/21/24 4:52:07 PM #91:	pokedude900 posted... It's certainly a point in favor, but nevermind femboys, I've seen gay guys refer to each other as sisters. Again, all I want is a screenshot of the line in the OP. That is what I've been asking for since the beginning. The relationship with her sisters is clearly ill intended and not friendly banter --- Why an I still on this website? <cite>epik_fail1 posted [p:980495755] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>It's certainly a point in favor, but nevermind femboys, I've seen gay guys refer to each other as sisters.Again, all I want is a screenshot of the line in the OP. That is what I've been asking for since the beginning.</quote>The relationship with her sisters is clearly ill intended and not friendly banter </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HashtagSEP 05/21/24 4:52:21 PM #92:	pokedude900 posted... It has been demonstratively proven that this line is not true to the original script. Just because it's trying to send a positive message doesn't mean it's a good translation. People were saying it's more true to the intentions of the character, not an exact translation. Likewise, unless you know what the new Japanese dialogue is, there, you can't say it's not a good translation. We already know your true motives, here, though. --- #SEP #Awesome #Excellent #Greatness #SteveNash #VitaminWater #SmellingLikeTheVault #Pigeon #Sexy #ActuallyAVeryIntelligentVelociraptor #Heel #CoolSpot #EndOfSig <cite>HashtagSEP posted [p:980495759] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>It has been demonstratively proven that this line is not true to the original script. Just because it's trying to send a positive message doesn't mean it's a good translation.</quote>People were saying it's more true to the intentions of the character, not an exact translation. Likewise, unless you know what the new Japanese dialogue is, there, you can't say it's not a good translation.We already know your true motives, here, though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
epik_fail1 05/21/24 4:53:43 PM #93:	BDSMKane posted... I said Im anti censorship. But Ill be labeled an anti censorship grifter as soon as I say something you dont like. Do you say crap like "the middle east version of Spiderman is based" while claiming to be anti censorship? If yes you are a grifter, if not, you are anti censorship --- Why an I still on this website? <cite>epik_fail1 posted [p:980495784] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>BDSMKane posted... </cite><quote>I said Im anti censorship. But Ill be labeled an anti censorship grifter as soon as I say something you dont like.</quote>Do you say crap like "the middle east version of Spiderman is based" while claiming to be anti censorship? If yes you are a grifter, if not, you are anti censorship </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Storm101 05/21/24 4:54:33 PM #94:	You were questioning her being trans at all and we provided pretty good proof and context that she is. Just because that particular line is new doesn't change that fact and it feels like you're just moving the goal posts. Hell we have Birdo all the way back in 1988, I don't see why this is so hard to believe. <cite>Storm101 posted [p:980495795] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>You were questioning her being trans at all and we provided pretty good proof and context that she is. Just because that particular line is new doesn't change that fact and it feels like you're just moving the goal posts. Hell we have Birdo all the way back in 1988, I don't see why this is so hard to believe.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DrizztLink 05/21/24 4:57:00 PM #95:	Storm101 posted... Hell we have Birdo all the way back in 1988, I don't see why this is so hard to believe. Because the dude objects to representation but has to gish-gallop around it since he's not brave enough to just say that. --- He/Him http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/M8h2ATe.png https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png <cite>DrizztLink posted [p:980495833] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Storm101 posted... </cite><quote>Hell we have Birdo all the way back in 1988, I don't see why this is so hard to believe.</quote>Because the dude objects to representation but has to gish-gallop around it since he's not brave enough to just say that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BDSMKane 05/21/24 5:00:44 PM #96:	epik_fail1 posted... Do you say crap like "the middle east version of Spiderman is based" while claiming to be anti censorship? If yes you are a grifter, if not, you are anti censorship I didnt know there was a Middle East version of Spiderman, and I dont use the word based. --- No matter our origin, we are all one family, we all share one planet, and we all need to feel loved and accepted. We are more alike than different. <cite>BDSMKane posted [p:980495888] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>epik_fail1 posted... </cite><quote>Do you say crap like "the middle east version of Spiderman is based" while claiming to be anti censorship? If yes you are a grifter, if not, you are anti censorship</quote>I didnt know there was a Middle East version of Spiderman, and I dont use the word based. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
pokedude900 05/21/24 5:02:36 PM #97:	Storm101 posted... You were questioning her being trans at all and we provided pretty good proof and context that she is. Just because that particular line is new doesn't change that fact and it feels like you're just moving the goal posts. Hell we have Birdo all the way back in 1988, I don't see why this is so hard to believe. As I said earlier, every piece of evidence that's been provided can either be interpreted as Vivian being trans OR a femboy, or flat-out a femboy. TBH, authorial intent is important in situations like this. And the Super Paper Mario card description that came up in the wiki article is pretty cut and dry to me. DrizztLink posted... Because the dude objects to representation but has to gish-gallop around it since he's not brave enough to just say that. What the hell are you even talking about? Birdo was never part of the conversation. Yes, she's a trans character, and that's cool. What does it have to do with the current discussion? --- https://i.imgur.com/lfI7zGE.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tgLNUuX.jpg Come to the (un)official GameFAQs Touhou board. http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/1110- <cite>pokedude900 posted [p:980495907] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Storm101 posted...</cite><quote>You were questioning her being trans at all and we provided pretty good proof and context that she is. Just because that particular line is new doesn't change that fact and it feels like you're just moving the goal posts. Hell we have Birdo all the way back in 1988, I don't see why this is so hard to believe.</quote>As I said earlier, every piece of evidence that's been provided can either be interpreted as Vivian being trans OR a femboy, or flat-out a femboy. TBH, authorial intent is important in situations like this. And the Super Paper Mario card description that came up in the wiki article is pretty cut and dry to me.DrizztLink posted...</cite><quote>Because the dude objects to representation but has to gish-gallop around it since he's not brave enough to just say that.</quote>What the hell are you even talking about? Birdo was never part of the conversation. Yes, she's a trans character, and that's cool. What does it have to do with the current discussion? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KitKats 05/21/24 5:10:08 PM #99:	pokedude900 posted... The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. That's how debates work. I'll make it easy for you. This scene is about halfway through chapter 4. How about you stop trying to erase the complicated and nuanced history of trans representation in media. --- her/she <cite>KitKats posted [p:980495993] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>The burden of proof lies with the one who makes the claim. That's how debates work.I'll make it easy for you. This scene is about halfway through chapter 4.</quote>How about you stop trying to erase the complicated and nuanced history of trans representation in media. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HashtagSEP 05/21/24 5:10:58 PM #100:	DeepsPraw posted... original: mistranslated with conservative bias remake: mistranslated with progressive bias sigh Yeah, I figured that was one of the reasons you thought the remake is "inferior." --- #SEP #Awesome #Excellent #Greatness #SteveNash #VitaminWater #SmellingLikeTheVault #Pigeon #Sexy #ActuallyAVeryIntelligentVelociraptor #Heel #CoolSpot #EndOfSig <cite>HashtagSEP posted [p:980495999] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>DeepsPraw posted... </cite><quote>original: mistranslated with conservative biasremake: mistranslated with progressive biassigh</quote>Yeah, I figured that was one of the reasons you thought the remake is "inferior." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KitKats 05/21/24 5:20:59 PM #101:	DeepsPraw posted... original: mistranslated with conservative bias remake: mistranslated with progressive bias sigh *yikes!* --- her/she <cite>KitKats posted [p:980496114] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>DeepsPraw posted... </cite><quote>original: mistranslated with conservative biasremake: mistranslated with progressive biassigh</quote>yikes! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
epik_fail1 05/21/24 5:37:32 PM #102:	BDSMKane posted... I didnt know there was a Middle East version of Spiderman, and I dont use the word based. Then you are not the kind of people I am talking about --- Why an I still on this website? <cite>epik_fail1 posted [p:980496314] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>BDSMKane posted... </cite><quote>I didnt know there was a Middle East version of Spiderman, and I dont use the word based.</quote>Then you are not the kind of people I am talking about </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KitKats 05/21/24 5:44:18 PM #103:	Throwing out vague or ambiguous statements about I support trans rights is not some shield from criticism over being transphobic, nor getting called out for your problematic behavior and bad takes. Actual good allies for trans people and the LGBT+ community know better than to try pulling that shit. --- her/she <cite>KitKats posted [p:980496380] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Throwing out vague or ambiguous statements about I support trans rights is not some shield from criticism over being transphobic, nor getting called out for your problematic behavior and bad takes.Actual good allies for trans people and the LGBT+ community know better than to try pulling that shit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Storm101 05/21/24 5:54:01 PM #104:	pokedude900 posted... As I said earlier, every piece of evidence that's been provided can either be interpreted as Vivian being trans OR a femboy, or flat-out a femboy. TBH, authorial intent is important in situations like this. And the Super Paper Mario card description that came up in the wiki article is pretty cut and dry to me. The context is also important. Vivian wants to be seen as girl and Beldam uses the fact that she is a boy as an insult which Vivian is devastated by. And everything we said about terms becoming outdated and such. I almost even want to say that whole chapter is some kind trans allegory with the way Mario loses his identity and Vivan sympathizes with him because she deals with that kind of thing herself, though perhaps that's a stretch. <cite>Storm101 posted [p:980496473] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>pokedude900 posted... </cite><quote>As I said earlier, every piece of evidence that's been provided can either be interpreted as Vivian being trans OR a femboy, or flat-out a femboy. TBH, authorial intent is important in situations like this. And the Super Paper Mario card description that came up in the wiki article is pretty cut and dry to me.</quote>The context is also important. Vivian wants to be seen as girl and Beldam uses the fact that she is a boy as an insult which Vivian is devastated by. And everything we said about terms becoming outdated and such. I almost even want to say that whole chapter is some kind trans allegory with the way Mario loses his identity and Vivan sympathizes with him because she deals with that kind of thing herself, though perhaps that's a stretch.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BDSMKane 05/21/24 5:54:52 PM #105:	KitKats posted... Throwing out vague or ambiguous statements about I support trans rights is not some shield from criticism over being transphobic, nor getting called out for your problematic behavior and bad takes. Actual good allies for trans people and the LGBT+ community know better than to try pulling that shit. I bought my shield at the Halloween store, and they said it can block all criticism about me. It only cost $19.99 too, so it was a real bargain. I also cant sleep so Im being ridiculous. --- No matter our origin, we are all one family, we all share one planet, and we all need to feel loved and accepted. We are more alike than different. <cite>BDSMKane posted [p:980496484] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>KitKats posted... </cite><quote>Throwing out vague or ambiguous statements about I support trans rights is not some shield from criticism over being transphobic, nor getting called out for your problematic behavior and bad takes.Actual good allies for trans people and the LGBT+ community know better than to try pulling that shit.</quote>I bought my shield at the Halloween store, and they said it can block all criticism about me. It only cost $19.99 too, so it was a real bargain. I also cant sleep so Im being ridiculous. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Nemu 05/21/24 5:59:11 PM #106:	I'd say the main problem is that the Japanese broadly don't write trans characters in the same way as the west, so there can be a bit of a disconnect trying to slot characters from one perspective to the other. <cite>Nemu posted [p:980496542] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>I'd say the main problem is that the Japanese broadly don't write trans characters in the same way as the west, so there can be a bit of a disconnect trying to slot characters from one perspective to the other. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranAures 05/21/24 6:09:20 PM #107:	authorial intent You mean like having a character be insulted by being called a man when they entirely refer to themselves as female? Something that would not logically be insulting to somebody who identifies as a man? Storm101 posted... The context is also important. Vivian wants to be seen as girl and Beldam uses the fact that she is a boy as an insult which Vivian is devastated by. "Still just a dude though." --- Just because I have 99% of a heart doesn't mean it can't kill me. It's tried. Twice. My body has a dongle and my heart doesn't care. He/They <cite>GranAures posted [p:980496673] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote><quote>authorial intent</quote>You mean like having a character be insulted by being called a man when they entirely refer to themselves as female? Something that would not logically be insulting to somebody who identifies as a man?Storm101 posted... </cite><quote>The context is also important. Vivian wants to be seen as girl and Beldam uses the fact that she is a boy as an insult which Vivian is devastated by.</quote>"Still just a dude though." </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TMOG 05/21/24 6:12:52 PM #108:	Ah I see The Crowd is going with the same arguments they use to "justify" Yamato in One Piece "not" being a trans man What is it about the existence of trans people that cause some gamer/anime brains to shut down entirely <cite>TMOG posted [p:980496732] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>Ah I see The Crowd is going with the same arguments they use to "justify" Yamato in One Piece "not" being a trans manWhat is it about the existence of trans people that cause some gamer/anime brains to shut down entirely</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
GranAures 05/21/24 6:15:14 PM #109:	TMOG posted... What is it about the existence of trans people that cause some gamer/anime brains to shut down entirely More so when such characters have existed for far longer than the "outrage" about them existing. --- Just because I have 99% of a heart doesn't mean it can't kill me. It's tried. Twice. My body has a dongle and my heart doesn't care. He/They <cite>GranAures posted [p:980496759] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>TMOG posted... </cite><quote>What is it about the existence of trans people that cause some gamer/anime brains to shut down entirely</quote>More so when such characters have existed for far longer than the "outrage" about them existing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TMOG 05/21/24 6:17:20 PM #110:	GranAures posted... More so when such characters have existed for far longer than the "outrage" about them existing. Yep Another recent example is Dragona in the latest Jojo part, she's clearly written as a trans woman but too many people reading the manga refuse to refer to her as anything other than he/him <cite>TMOG posted [p:980496785] in Vivian con... [t:80773540]...</cite> <quote>GranAures posted... </cite><quote>More so when such characters have existed for far longer than the "outrage" about them existing.</quote>YepAnother recent example is Dragona in the latest Jojo part, she's clearly written as a trans woman but too many people reading the manga refuse to refer to her as anything other than he/him</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > Vivian confirmed trans for paper Mario (+) Yeah! (+)

Current Events > Vivian confirmed trans for paper Mario