Current Events > Why did Bernie lose twice?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The democrat party is still run by conservative dems. Any progressive like Bernie who reaches for the top, will always get shut down by the elites.

Also, actual antisemitism from the same people that support Israel ( -_-)

This is unhealthy.

The lesson of 2016 and 2020, the explanation that holds consistent with other results from that period and since, is that Hillary Clinton was so disliked she made otherwise surefire losers into competitive threats.

Cause he's actually left wing rather than SAYING he's left wing like most of the Dem party.

Zikten posted...

The democrat party is still run by conservative dems. Any progressive like Bernie who reaches for the top, will always get shut down by the elites.

embarrassing that there are people in 2024 still parroting this nonsense

Delirious_Beard posted...

embarrassing that there are people in 2024 still parroting this nonsense

Do you deny that Biden is way more conservative than Bernie? And that all the people who lead the party are more like Biden than Bernie?

The first time the entire party already decided it was Clintons time. He lost a one on one race.

the second time he was actually winning the same way trump won the primary. He had 40% for but the other 60% was mixed up between multiple people. The Democratic Party noticed this and EVERYONE dropped to support Biden, except the one person who siphoned some votes from Bernie.

basically, if we had ranked choice voting instead of winner takes all, wed probably be looking at Bernie vs Trump in 2020.

but the system isnt set up that way.

The DNC hates him and his polices and his voters, they worship the establishment.

Zikten posted...

Do you deny that Biden is way more conservative than Bernie? And that all the people who lead the party are more like Biden than Bernie?

Thats different than your initial claim that the primary was rigged by elites.

Classic motte and bailey

Cheater87 posted...

The DNC hates him and his polices and his voters, they worship the establishment.

Alternative hypothesis: more voters turned out for the other candidate

BlueKat posted...

Also, actual antisemitism from the same people that support Israel ( -_-)

Does that make everyone who voted against Hilary misogynists?

Shadow_Don posted...

Thats different than your initial claim that the primary was rigged by elites.

Classic motte and bailey

By elites I meant the leaders of the party. Biden is an elite

Zikten posted...

By elites I meant the leaders of the party. Biden is an elite

Thats not the motte and bailey

You said they "shut down" Bernie

i.e. they rigged the election

Regardless of how you may personally feel about Bernie I think you can rationally admit the Democratic party obviously didn't want him as a candidate. It's not some crazy conspiracy. We watched every person drop out and endorse Biden as soon as it looked like Bernie had a chance. Maybe they thought Biden was the best candidate to win the election, maybe they hated Bernie's policies, either way they clearly did not want Bernie to win.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Bernie can not fail. Bernie can only be failed.
The Biden supporters are the cult tho

ssjevot posted...

Regardless of how you may personally feel about Bernie I think you can rationally admit the Democratic party obviously didn't want him as a candidate. It's not some crazy conspiracy. We watched every person drop out and endorse Biden as soon as it looked like Bernie had a chance. Maybe they thought Biden was the best candidate to win the election, maybe they hated Bernie's policies, either way they clearly did not want Bernie to win.

Ok and this can easily be explained by Biden doing a better job at coalition building, not the DNC rigging the election.

ssjevot posted...

Regardless of how you may personally feel about Bernie I think you can rationally admit the Democratic party obviously didn't want him as a candidate. It's not some crazy conspiracy. We watched every person drop out and endorse Biden as soon as it looked like Bernie had a chance. Maybe they thought Biden was the best candidate to win the election, maybe they hated Bernie's policies, either way they clearly did not want Bernie to win.

By party do you mean the voters?
Because everyone keeps saying how Hilary was the worst candidate ever, so why couldnt Bernie beat him?
Oh right the system was rigged.
Sounds awfully familiar.

ssjevot posted...

Regardless of how you may personally feel about Bernie I think you can rationally admit the Democratic party obviously didn't want him as a candidate. It's not some crazy conspiracy. We watched every person drop out and endorse Biden as soon as it looked like Bernie had a chance. Maybe they thought Biden was the best candidate to win the election, maybe they hated Bernie's policies, either way they clearly did not want Bernie to win.

Yeah that was some bullshit for sure, and it really makes me wish we had ranked voting. But it wasn't meant to be.

McMarbles posted...

Does that make everyone who voted against Hilary misogynists?

I would say some of them were but when the DNC emails were leaked, they literally said there's no way a Jewish person could be elected president

Shadow_Don posted...

Thats not the motte and bailey

You said they "shut down" Bernie

i.e. they rigged the election

They did. In a sense. There was definitely a lot of talks between top democrats about what to do about Bernie.

Zikten posted...

They did. In a sense. There was definitely a lot of talks between top democrats about what to do about Bernie.

Whose ass is your source for this? Its someones ass for sure.

VRX3000 posted...

the second time he was actually winning the same way trump won the primary. He had 40% for but the other 60% was mixed up between multiple people. The Democratic Party noticed this and EVERYONE dropped to support Biden, except the one person who siphoned some votes from Bernie.

I'm not sure this logic tracks. Warren and Bloomberg both stayed in until after Super Tuesday, then dropped within two days of that. Unless you mean Tulsi, but she got such a negligible amount of votes I'm not sure she'd be worth mentioning. Yes, the people who dropped endorsed Biden, but if Bernie could only win by virtue of other people staying in the race, does that really say anything?

McMarbles posted...

Whose ass is your source for this? Its someones ass for sure.

So you think nobody did anything against Bernie? Even though the party is committed to not letting Progressives take over the party? You think everything just happened naturally?

Zikten posted...

So you think nobody did anything against Bernie? Even though the party is committed to not letting Progressives take over the party? You think everything just happened naturally?

How, exactly, did they "rig" it?

It sucks that Bernie lost, but he didn't lose because it was rigged. He lost because older voters didn't want to vote progressive, and younger voters didn't turn out as much in the primaries.

Zikten posted...

They did. In a sense. There was definitely a lot of talks between top democrats about what to do about Bernie.

Zikten posted...

So you think nobody did anything against Bernie? Even though the party is committed to not letting Progressives take over the party? You think everything just happened naturally?

"X and Y people are corrupt"

"Woah, that's a huge story, care to provide evidence so I can report on this?!"

"Huh?!?!?!?!? YOU THINK CORRUPTION IS FAKE AND CRIMINALS DONT EXIST?"

Another motte and bailey my dude.

StealThisSheen posted...

How, exactly, did they "rig" it?

It sucks that Bernie lost, but he didn't lose because it was rigged. He lost because older voters didn't want to vote progressive, and younger voters didn't turn out as much in the primaries.

What you said is true. But I think it's also true that Biden had meetings or phone calls with each remaining runner, got them to drop out and support him instead of Bernie. I am pretty sure I remember some of the runners actually admitting these meetings took place

Zikten posted...

But I think it's also true that Biden had meetings or phone calls with each remaining runner, got them to drop out and support him instead of Bernie. I am pretty sure I remember some of the runners actually admitting these meetings took place

Yea. Bernie was allowed to talk to other candidates in order to build a coalition and/or potential cabinet as well. Thats allowed.

Zikten posted...

What you said is true. But I think it's also true that Biden had meetings or phone calls with each remaining runner, got them to drop out and support him instead of Bernie. I am pretty sure I remember some of the runners actually admitting these meetings took place

Probably, but that's allowed.

If Bernie could only win if everybody stayed in the race the entire time, it doesn't mean it was rigged, it just, sadly, meant he was the weaker candidate, at the time.

Delirious_Beard posted...

embarrassing that there are people in 2024 still parroting this nonsense

But it's true. Biden continued some of Trump's controversial policies, like the trade war with China, scrapping the Iran nuclear deal, moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, and the Tiktok ban.

Fenriswolf posted...

But it's true. Biden continued some of Trump's controversial policies, like the trade war with China, scrapping the Iran nuclear deal, moving the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem

In each of these scenarios it was impossible to return to the same negotiated conditions that happened under Obama + Biden

But yea do your gaslighting about how Trump and Biden actually aren't different please shit my topic up you have my permission.

Can we fast forward to the part where you tell us that it doesn't matter who is president with respect to lgbt and women's rights? It doesn't matter! Roe was overturned under Biden! Just go to that part and show your whole ass right now.

Edit: oh sorry I forgot do you want to defend China and their ongoing genocide as well? Tell us how Xi isnt a dictator and how Taiwan deserves to be invaded

https://youtu.be/NHS-K7OuLAc?si=aNzshJkJPeq-ScFV

generally speaking? Because he's running a campaign that's easy to misconstrue against a huge Known Brand figure every time.

I don't understand why people act like it's some huge unexpected thing for the incumbent or other super-public figure to win the primary. Bernie could run on whatever massively-popular platform he wants and he'd still lose when up against hillary or biden because the average person goes "hey I know that name"

people keep trying to play that up as some kind of policy thing when it's really not that deep. That's also why I'm not particularly concerned with this year's election despite what's at stake - because I am reasonably convinced the general public will simply vote for the guy we already have.

There is admittedly even odds that they'll vote for agent orange for the same reasons, but then again a lot of the folks who did last time around died. So.

Zikten posted...

So you think nobody did anything against Bernie? Even though the party is committed to not letting Progressives take over the party? You think everything just happened naturally?

so your own ass.

People on the internet make this out to be a much bigger deal than Bernie himself does. The literal second he lost both primaries he immediately rallied behind the nominee and campaigned for them, and after Biden had won he even asked Bernie to be in his White House cabinet as Labor Secretary. And the only reason Bernie didn't work with Biden there is the Senate's balance of power was extremely precarious and Bernie has just gotten a powerful seat as the Senate Budget Committee Chair But weird people keep going on for years acting like there's irreconcilable differences and a permanent vendetta between Bernie and the rest of the Democratic party.

Bernie is well-intentioned, but the thing he and his team never seemed to grasp is that the Democratic Party is actually popular among reliable Democratic primary voters.

So when he, as an otherwise independent, stepped in basically attacking the party as too conservative and downplaying the party's past accomplishments, he turned off loads and loads of Dem establishment figures and diehard yellow dog Dem voters.

Couple that with a strategy that seemed to be predicated on a) the center remaining splintered throughout the primary process and b) every anti-Hillary vote he received in 2016 staying by his side in 2020, and you have a fundamentally flawed strategy. All it took was a few figures to back Biden, and Bernie's chances completely evaporated.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/24/debbie-wasserman-schultz-resigns-dnc-chair-emails-sanders

its 2024 and we still have people fully believing in an evil dem conspiracy against the faultless Bernie

Every candidate in the dem primary knew the rules, and what was allowed. If Biden and Hillary were able to gain better support on the inside of the primaries, as well as the voters of the primaries, he just wasnt as good as them.

Tbf the media was entirely against Bernie's campaign. And some candidates (like Bloomberg) ran only to shut him down. Sure that's politics but idk should probably make you mad that everyone that's a part of this shitty system was against the one guy that wanted to bring forth some meaningful change lol

Zikten posted...

What you said is true. But I think it's also true that Biden had meetings or phone calls with each remaining runner, got them to drop out and support him instead of Bernie. I am pretty sure I remember some of the runners actually admitting these meetings took place

Mate, the issue people are having with you here is that you're posting conjecture when they're asking for sources.

Democrat Party: capitalist party / status quo party
Republican Party: capitalist party / fascist party
CE: "LOOK! HE BOTH SIDES THEM! THEY'RE TOTALLY THE SAME THING, AM I RITE!?"

Bernie is a democratic socialist and America has a two-capitalist-party system. The Democratic Party would rather lose to Trump than embrace socialism. If Trump makes himself a fascist dictator and hunts down anyone and everyone who was on the other party, they would still likely rather see him win than see America go socialist.

<_<

america is too far extremist right wing to ever go back to the left or even centre

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/01/us/politics/pete-buttigieg-drops-out.html

Buttigieg dropped out after speaking to Obama which is kinda funny because Obama later said Buttigieg could never win basically because he's a big gay nerd lol

(please don't hurt me)

• Pointless obsession over the notion that Clinton [a WILDLY unpopular candidate] was somehow an heir apparent (for no good reason) which overshadowed Sanders' chances
• Sketchy activity from the Clinton campaign derailing or smearing the Sanders campaign
• The Democratic party never wanted to give Bernie a chance because he wasn't conservative enough for them

That election really jaded my view of the Democratic party. While yes they are better than republicans, they aren't that much better.

VRX3000 posted...

basically, if we had ranked choice voting instead of winner takes all, wed probably be looking at Bernie vs Trump in 2020.

How would Bernie win under ranked choice lol

Doom_Art posted...

How would Bernie win under ranked choice lol

A lot of Bernie stans seem to run on Underpants Gnome logic.

1. Implement ranked choice
2. ?????????
3. Profit!