Current Events > Lmao Bethesda really does hate the Pre-Fallout 3 lore (show spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

They wiped out shady sands off screen and made sure the NCR fell.

The NCR collapsing isnt too crazy but wiping off one of the biggest city settlements in the NCR to keep a post apocalyptic look is kinda lame

I4NRulez posted...

They wiped out shady sands off screen and made sure the NCR fell.

Well that's disappointing :/

I'm not sure Bethesda even gets the point of Fallout, the world didn't just end, life goes on despite it ending.

Fuck the ncr

they didnt only make the ncr fall, they made it fall in such a way and time frame that new vegas was retconned lol

bethesda are still seething after all these years that someone wrote a better fallout game than them

Crimsoness posted...

Well that's disappointing :/

I'm not sure Bethesda even gets the point of Fallout, the world didn't just end, life goes on despite it ending.

Not surprising, the show lead credited Todd and Bethesda as the creator of the series

I'm just glad to have the completely original quest of "Find family member in the wasteland" that Bethesda is so fond of

Todd Howard is so butthurt that people like New Vegas and the originals better than his slop. pretty obvious now.

Are future games adhering to this? That would kinda suck

Does the protagonist respond to everything with a regular yes or does he use the sarcastic yes option?

https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=49123 - Found this.

Is it a BoS wankfest?

Haven't got to that ep yet but I pretty much saw this coming (enough so that I as a person who normally detests spoilers clicked on this topic pretty confident in what I'd find - the confirmation of the NCR being in the show paired with the 'Shady Sands' reference in the trailers pretty much told the whole story).

It's not really out of bounds that the NCR fell, considering that New Vegas set it up as a bloated and corrupt late-stage democracy. But I'm sure Bethesda handled it in the most ass way possible. *shrugs* At any rate, can't be that let down by it when I saw it coming from a mile away. I'm honestly surprised Bethesda restrained themselves from retconning the West Coast lore for this long. Until the day that they decide to pull a Zaslav on FO1 / 2 / NV and permanently ban them from sale, they can't truly destroy the classics.

gmanthebest posted...

I'm just glad to have the completely original quest of "Find family member in the wasteland" that Bethesda is so fond of

At least Lucy's smart enough to carry around a photograph of her father, rather than going up to complete strangers and asking them if they've seen any middle-aged men lately.

kuwab0 posted...

Is it a BoS wankfest?

Very vague and minor spoilers: at least as of ep. 2, they've going for more of the borderline-villainous FO4 / Commonwealth take on the BoS, (which for all its faults is at least a step up from FO3's bland do-gooders), and aren't shy about showing the downsides of BoS life.

As fun as it is to shit all over bethesda, are we sure they even have the rights to use fallout 1 2 and new vegas? It would be easy to claim they're just bitter obsidian wrote a better fallout, but obsidian was also made of all the people who worked on fallout 1 and 2. It feels more likely that there's some sort of shared rights situation and they don't want to have to pay royalties to a third party if possible.

s0nicfan posted...

As fun as it is to shit all over bethesda, are we sure they even have the rights to use fallout 1 2 and new vegas? It would be easy to claim they're just bitter obsidian wrote a better fallout, but obsidian was also made of all the people who worked on fallout 1 and 2. It feels more likely that there's some sort of shared rights situation and they don't want to have to pay royalties to a third party if possible.

Hell to add to this does Bethesda even play a huge part in overseeing the TV series or is this more on the writers?

s0nicfan posted...

As fun as it is to shit all over bethesda, are we sure they even have the rights to use fallout 1 2 and new vegas? It would be easy to claim they're just bitter obsidian wrote a better fallout, but obsidian was also made of all the people who worked on fallout 1 and 2. It feels more likely that there's some sort of shared rights situation and they don't want to have to pay royalties to a third party if possible.

I'm pretty sure Fallout 4 had direct references to New Vegas.

RchHomieQuanChi posted...

I'm pretty sure Fallout 4 had direct references to New Vegas.

A reference is one thing, especially since its referencing something that was already integrated into the main line series as DLC. I'm talking reusing that setting entirely in a new expansion or medium like television.

MarcyWarcy posted...

they didnt only make the ncr fall, they made it fall in such a way and time frame that new vegas was retconned lol

bethesda are still seething after all these years that someone wrote a better fallout game than them

How long until Bethesda decides to delist Fallout: New Vegas at this rate? They clearly hate the game.

Its absolutely awful and it makes the show not make sense at all if youre aware of the previous lore. Having the BoS come back is bad. Having a mostly empty disorganized wasteland is stupid. Even having NCR collapse after NV it doesnt really follow that every major settlement would fall and not even minor polities would be left in its wake. Its sad because the superficial elements of the show are pretty great and Walton Goggins is really good.

But I dont know how anyone who is actually a fan of the series can enjoy this. Its disregard for the previous story is bad, the way it undermines the original series messaging is bad and the setting is just sad. I wish it was good or better than it is, but its not and anytime I think about the story for any amount of time it makes me mad because theyre throwing away so much of what came before for a flashy nothing.

s0nicfan posted...

As fun as it is to shit all over bethesda, are we sure they even have the rights to use fallout 1 2 and new vegas? It would be easy to claim they're just bitter obsidian wrote a better fallout, but obsidian was also made of all the people who worked on fallout 1 and 2. It feels more likely that there's some sort of shared rights situation and they don't want to have to pay royalties to a third party if possible.

Just remember that Bethesda and Obsidian are both owned by Microsoft now. So even if the rights were muddy in the past they wouldn't be now.

Personally I am going to watch the whole story and see how things are explained. I have played the Bethesda games and know of one and two's story and lore. I am aware of the contractions and distain for the first two games and to a lesser extent new Vegas. Having this show take place in California worried me from the start, however two episodes in and I'm loving it.

I mean, the show's in the same situation as Fallout 4: if you go into it with the expectation that it'll hold a candle / be faithful to the original 2 games and NV, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. There is still some value to be had in Bethesda-brand Fallout when viewed in a bubble, and so far the show is more or less playing to its strengths.

kuwab0 posted...

Is it a BoS wankfest?

no, the BOS are all morally ambiguous like in the games.

the show is actually enjoyable but for some reason the BOS doesnt use laser weapons I just assume thats a effects budget thing.

Its clear that Bethesda has their vision of fallout and for me its worse than the vision of the original games/nv. A lot of people like their version of fallout. My issue is that they always just kinda take the lazy way out.

Which wouldnt be so bad if they werent so stuck on acting like the bombs just dropped when, even without the NCR, there were still big cities.

The rise and fall of the NCR has always been a looming thing over Fallout lore and to just gloss over it like that to kinda sucks.

masterpug53 posted...

I mean, the show's in the same situation as Fallout 4: if you go into it with the expectation that it'll hold a candle / be faithful to the original 2 games and NV, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment. There is still some value to be had in Bethesda-brand Fallout when viewed in a bubble, and so far the show is more or less playing to its strengths.

The issue isnt that they are doing their version of fallout. They continued lore and let NV release so its stuff thats been established.

Then to set the show in California and lazily write out the NCR is a problem.

If this show was in like Texas where the lore there is vague it wouldnt be a problem. Maybe theyll explore more later but to just go hey the ncr is done when the rise and fall of the NCR was one of the biggest points of the fallout lore is awful.

I4NRulez posted...

The issue isnt that they are doing their version of fallout. They continued lore and let NV release so its stuff thats been established.

Then to set the show in California and lazily write out the NCR is a problem.

If this show was in like Texas where the lore there is vague it wouldnt be a problem. Maybe theyll explore more later but to just go hey the ncr is done when the rise and fall of the NCR was one of the biggest points of the fallout lore is awful.

I know what the issue is. And as much as it might be disappointing that things are the way they are, my point was that it's a situation I accepted and made peace with years ago. I've said before that I'm honestly surprised Bethesda restrained themselves from retconning the West Coast for this long; the writing was on the wall when they bent the lore over a pole just so the ever-marketable BoS could appear in Fallout '76.

Bethesda hates all lore that's better than their lore

Vyrulisse posted...

Todd Howard is so butthurt that people like New Vegas and the originals better than his slop. pretty obvious now.

This. Fuck Todd, Fuck Bethesda. They do shitty Fallout and the new show can eat a bag of dicks too.

Is the Master referenced much?

It's wild that people try to say Fallout 3 is a bad game now. I mean if you wanna convince anybody of anything, leave that bs out.

It seems pretty clear that Bethesda isn't interested in doing anything conceptually interesting with the Fallout setting; to them Fallout is a static setting dominated by the rule of cool. To Bethesda, Fallout is about people roaming around a deserted nuclear wasteland with high-tech weaponry and gadgets that have a 1950s aesthetic. That's all they'll ever do with it.

Japanties posted...

It seems pretty clear that Bethesda isn't interested in doing anything conceptually interesting with the Fallout setting; to them Fallout is a static setting dominated by the rule of cool. To Bethesda, Fallout is about people roaming around a deserted nuclear wasteland with high-tech weaponry and gadgets that have a 1950s aesthetic. That's all they'll ever do with it.

Nailed it

I'm absolutely glad that the boring ass NCR is dead and we don't waste a Fallout series spending time in a big ass city or dealing with corrupt officials stealing carrots or whatever dumb sidequest shit.

>shady sands gone
>new vegas gone

I'm sorry for making fun of starfield todd please stop

Bethesda doesn't want society to be rebuilt it seems. They want it to always be wasteland.

Again is Bethesda making all the shots here or do the writers have a say in this series?

creativerealms posted...

Bethesda doesn't want society to be rebuilt it seems. That want it to always be wasteland.

Bethesda could have been Mad Max with how each game shows society slowly rebuilding, but eternal status quo is WAY easier to put infinite games into.

Yeah wouldnt it be awesome if we had a game that was just, in a society. And everything was cool, so you just go out and get groceries, make small talk? Yeah sign me up.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Yeah wouldnt it be awesome if we had a game that was just, in a society. And everything was cool, so you just go out and get groceries, make small talk? Yeah sign me up.

Again, mad max. It started as mostly a wasteland, and then you had small collectives crop up around key infrastructure (The Road Warrior - Oil Refinery). Eventually something loosely resembling cities formed (Beyond Thunderdome - Bartertown) and by Fury Road you had multiple communities (bullet farm, gas town, the citadel, etc) - it even had areas like The Green Place that had reached a whole new level of decay. Societies forming doesn't mean any of them are good, but the Mad Max franchise shows you can absolutely do developments over time in that kind of world. Hell... the Walking Dead does more or less the same thing with zombies between issue 1 and the last issue.

If you're imagining a more developed Wasteland and the only story you can picture is a dude buying groceries, that's just your own lack of imagination, not a problem writers can't easily work around.

Baha05 posted...

Again is Bethesda making all the shots here or do the writers have a say in this series?

The series is supposedly 100 percent canon to the games.

Being sarcastic about the idea of societies being in fallout games is pretty funny considering that was pretty much what 1 and 2 were about. You see the shaky restarting and rebuilding of civilization all over those games, and that's what made the setting so interesting and enduring in people's minds.

Fallout 3 is where the games started being mostly about walking around an empty map getting shot at by dudes with mohawks who live in gas stations eating 300 year old twinkies, and also coincidentally where the logic of the series started falling apart with the lightest of nudges.

Wait,Bethesda hates New Vegas?

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Wait,Bethesda hates New Vegas?

always has been

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Wait,Bethesda hates New Vegas?

It overshadowed fallout 3 back in the day.

viewmaster_pi posted...

always has been

Never heard about it until now

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Never heard about it until now

I mean, they clearly don't hold it on the same level as 3, 4 and 76. You pretty much never see them promoting it.

Mr_Karate_II posted...

Never heard about it until now

There's a ton of revisionist stuff going on with people's feelings about Bethesda/Fallout.

And the role of contrarian tonight will be played by Jerry_Hellyeah