Current Events > More Drama Concerning Narrative Designer Affiliated with Sweet Baby Inc

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Zonbei posted...

Where is this individual being blamed for anything? White people who dont bother to make efforts to help push back against systemic racism ARE at fault. Everyone that doesnt apply to? They arent getting blamed for shit. You know that evil virtue signaling everyone is always yelling about? The people doing that (I.e being allies) are the ones not getting blamed.

I've come across this narrative before. The ones that make an effort to push back are doing so to make the fight about themselves. Otherwise, they're paying their penitence for the wrongdoing of living privileged lives heretofore unchecked.

There's no way to get clean or make things right when the charge is privilege.

attributing social inequality to some nebulous and specific villains is part of the problem. The problem is white people who continue to perpetuate the systemic inequality. If that doesnt apply to you, you arent part of the problem and you dont need to fucking whine about the ones who are being called out.

The problem is that the "ones that are being called out" are people simply living their lives. You've already said that anyone who isn't proactively antiracist is part of the problem. I would say that measurement makes a villain of anyone who doesn't at least contribute to the cause.

I hope you have the same measurement for yourself that you have for me. If not, I'm eager to read your reasoning why.

Sweet Baby Jesus more like, cuz damn

FortuneCookie posted...

I've come across this narrative before. The ones that make an effort to push back are doing so to make the fight about themselves. Otherwise, they're paying their penitence for the wrongdoing of living privileged lives heretofore unchecked.

There's no way to get clean or make things right when the charge is privilege.

The problem is that the "ones that are being called out" are people simply living their lives. You've already said that anyone who isn't proactively antiracist is part of the problem. I would say that measurement makes a villain of anyone who doesn't at least contribute to the cause.

I hope you have the same measurement for yourself that you have for me. If not, I'm eager to read your reasoning why.

Yes, not being proactively antiracist means you kind of suck. It isnt that hard. Youre acting like its some Herculean undertaking. You should be contributing to anti racism where you can. That doesnt even mean what you clearly think it does, volunteering or money or whether. Just fucking call people out when theyre being racist. Work through your own ingrained racism.

I dont know what makes you think I dont hold myself to the same standards.i am
unclear what youre trying to say with holding myself to the same measurement. I mean, for one, Im not white, but I do still do the work to combat systemic racism.

Your statement that anyone who pushes back against racism is told theyre making the fight about them is needlessly dramatic. Has that happened? Sure. Usually when people actually were being performative, but not always. Is it common? Of course not.

Going back to the topic, I can't help but wonder what Lalonders meant by "microaggressions" caused by white people. Is it something done by accident or on purpose?

Humble_Novice posted...

Going back to the topic, I can't help but wonder what Lalonders meant by "microaggressions" caused by white people. Is it something done by accident or on purpose?

Microagressions are sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. Theyre just all the little racist things people do without being overtly, obviously racist. Many of them might be ingrained and people dont even realize theyre racist. the classic example is someone crossing the street because a black person is approaching, that would be a fairly obvious microagression. But theres all sorts.

Humble_Novice posted...

Going back to the topic, I can't help but wonder what Lalonders meant by "microaggressions" caused by white people. Is it something done by accident or on purpose?

Microaggressions are typically unintentional (but they can be intentional too, like a backhanded compliment). It would be daily interactions that are insulting or derogatory. Like asking a black person "Is your hair real?" or saying "you don't act black" or telling a woman "you should smile more" or saying "your English is really good" (with the quiet part being "for someone of your race"). It can be about race, gender, sexuality, religion, or anything else about a person.

I don't agree with her that all white people do it, or that only white people do it. Microaggressions are something anyone is capable of.

Zonbei posted...

Microagressions are sometimes on purpose, sometimes on accident. Theyre just all the little racist things people do without being overtly, obviously racist. Many of them might be ingrained and people dont even realize theyre racist. the classic example is someone crossing the street because a black person is approaching, that would be a fairly obvious microagression. But theres all sorts.

I wouldnt call that micro anymore tbh. Id consider asking a non-white person in Europe for example where theyre from a micro aggression, even when its done out of pure interest.

NoxObscuras posted...

Microaggressions are typically unintentional (but they can be intentional too, like a backhanded compliment). It would be daily interactions that are insulting or derogatory. Like asking a black person "Is your hair real?" or saying "you don't act black" or telling a woman "you should smile more" or saying "your English is really good (with the quiet part being "for someone of your race")." It can be about race, gender, sexuality, religion, or anything else about a person.

I don't agree with her that all white people do it, or that only white people do it. Microaggressions are something anyone is capable of.

I would say that essentially all white people are taught to do it, and may unlearn it, but they have to like make that effort. Its unfortunately just a part of our society. But yes, anyone is capable of them.

Zwijn posted...

I wouldnt call that micro anymore tbh. Id consider asking a non-white person in Europe for example where theyre from a micro aggression, even when its done out of pure interest.

Sure, thats also a microagression. Whether the street thing is or isnt, meh. I think its probably one of the ones bordering on just aggression, but I can see it being a micro aggression. In the end the point is its racist.

I don't think asking someone where they're from out of curiosity is a fucking aggression lmao

hyperskate65 posted...

I don't think asking someone where they're from out of curiosity is a fucking aggression lmao

Brown people have lived in my country for literal ages, its a dumb ass question that at worst is antagonistic and at best ignorant as fuck.

Zwijn posted...

Brown people have lived in my country for literal ages, its a dumb ass question that at worst is antagonistic and at best ignorant as fuck.

Eh. Maybe it's an American thing since we're from all over.

Zonbei posted...

Yes, not being proactively antiracist means you kind of suck. It isnt that hard. Youre acting like its some Herculean undertaking. You should be contributing to anti racism where you can. That doesnt even mean what you clearly think it does, volunteering or money or whether. Just fucking call people out when theyre being racist. Work through your own ingrained racism.

Calling people out on their racism? Consider it done.
Working through my own racism? If and when I find it, I'll deal with it.

I dont know what makes you think I dont hold myself to the same standards.i am
unclear what youre trying to say with holding myself to the same measurement. I mean, for one, Im not white, but I do still do the work to combat systemic racism.

Your statement that anyone who pushes back against racism is told theyre making the fight about them is needlessly dramatic. Has that happened? Sure. Usually when people actually were being performative, but not always. Is it common? Of course not.

Until this post, you hadn't given any examples of what an individual could or should do to fight systemic racism. You said that anyone who didn't fight racism was responsible for racism, but you didn't define what it meant to fight back. I didn't know if I was simply being expected to call someone out on making racist comments or if I was supposed to donate time and money to help antiracist organizations.

As for potentially not having the same standard, I was curious if you felt that some of us needed to fight harder against racism to compensate for our inherent privilege.

FortuneCookie posted...

Calling people out on their racism? Consider it done.
Working through my own racism? If and when I find it, I'll deal with it.

Until this post, you hadn't given any examples of what an individual could or should do to fight systemic racism. You said that anyone who didn't fight racism was responsible for racism, but you didn't define what it meant to fight back. I didn't know if I was simply being expected to call someone out on making racist comments or if I was supposed to donate time and money to help antiracist organizations.

As for potentially not having the same standard, I was curious if you felt that some of us needed to fight harder against racism to compensate for our inherent privilege.

Literally is not my job nor the point of this topic for me to explain to you or anyone else exactly what theyre supposed to do. Super weird you expected me to do that for you. I can say anyone that doesnt fight racism is responsible for racism without having to literally take you by the hand and explain how to fight racism.

Some people need to do more work to move past the racism theyve been taught and to understand their privilege, yes.

hyperskate65 posted...

I don't think asking someone where they're from out of curiosity is a fucking aggression lmao

You dont think that, but one of the cool ways to grow as a person is to understand that sometimes youre wrong.

It is a pretty well known thing that clueless or racist people will exclusively ask POC where theyre from, because clearly they must not be from here.

hyperskate65 posted...

Eh. Maybe it's an American thing since we're from all over.

Nah, it happens in America too.
*meets someone that's clearly non-white*
"So, where are you from?"
"I'm from Los Angeles."
"Okay, but where are you really from?"

It seems like no big deal, but some people get asked this constantly and it gets tiresome. It makes people feel like they're not truly considered American, despite being born here. And again, a microaggression doesn't have to be intentional. Most people asking, don't mean any harm by it.

Zonbei posted...

Literally is not my job nor the point of this topic for me to explain to you or anyone else exactly what theyre supposed to do. Super weird you expected me to do that for you. I can say anyone that doesnt fight racism is responsible for racism without having to literally take you by the hand and explain how to fight racism.

Some people need to do more work to move past the racism theyve been taught and to understand their privilege, yes.

I think if you're going to judge white people collectively as privileged bigots, yes, you could do the courtesy of explaining what they might do to not raise your ire.

FortuneCookie posted...

I think if you're going to judge white people collectively as privileged bigots, yes, you could do the courtesy of explaining what they might do to not raise your ire.

Its not a judgement, its an unfortunate fact about society and systemic racism. Thats why its.. systemic. Because people are born into a racist system and taught racism, and theyre born into privilege. That isnt a judgement. Its reality.

bigotry comes when you refuse to acknowledge that reality and unlearn taught racism.

It really isnt my job to explain anything to you. Im saying what I am already out of the goodness of my heart. There is an entire internet full of useful information on this exact subject. It is very easy to educate yourself. Better than I could, even.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


pretty much yeah.

Zonbei posted...

Its not a judgement, its an unfortunate fact about society and systemic racism. Thats why its.. systemic. Because people are born into a racist system and taught racism, and theyre born into privilege. That isnt a judgement. Its reality.

bigotry comes when you refuse to acknowledge that reality and unlearn taught racism.

It really isnt my job to explain anything to you. Im saying what I am already out of the goodness of my heart. There is an entire internet full of useful information on this exact subject. It is very easy to educate yourself. Better than I could, even.

If you're drawing out conversations where you tell someone they're racist for a reason you are being vague about, you lose the basis for saying you aren't obligated to get involved. Especially with a question as basic as "what do you want me to do?"

KI_Simpson posted...

If you're drawing out conversations where you tell someone they're racist for a reason you are being vague about, you lose the basis for saying you aren't obligated to get involved. Especially with a question as basic as "what do you want me to do?"

That sure isnt what happened, bud.

Zonbei posted...

That sure isnt what happened, bud.

It is what I saw happen to the best of my recollection, and vague, hostile answers don't convince me I misinterpreted it.

KI_Simpson posted...

It is what I saw happen to the best of my recollection, and vague, hostile answers don't convince me I misinterpreted it.

lmao. Hostile.

Why dont you explain exactly what the problem you have is? That Im not explaining allyship to every white person in the entire world? Little confused as to what youre actually expecting here.

Zonbei posted...

lmao. Hostile.

Why dont you explain exactly what the problem you have is? That Im not explaining allyship to every white person in the entire world? Little confused as to what youre actually expecting here.

Yes, it is hostile to tell someone they're wrong (and include no reasons) while ending with a sarcastic "bud." I didn't ask you to explain anything, I said mocking people for asking what you wanted them to do when you had already been engaged in conversation about the topic wasn't fair. If I called you ableist for the first post of yours I responded to, drew out explaining why I had called you that, and then when I finally did explain* shamed you for making me explain it instead of looking it up on your own, would you say I was being completely reasonable?

*In case you're curious, assuming you know what someone picked up from being immersed in society and saying it's easy to accurately educate yourself on a social issue like race just by looking it up online does not hold true for neurodivergent people. I wouldn't necessarily go to calling someone ableist for not taking that into account immediately, but assuming how neurotypical people respond to things is how everyone does it is a symptom of a systemic discrimination issue.

KI_Simpson posted...

Yes, it is hostile to tell someone they're wrong (and include no reasons) while ending with a sarcastic "bud." I didn't ask you to explain anything, I said mocking people for asking what you wanted them to do when you had already been engaged in conversation about the topic wasn't fair. If I called you ableist for the first post of yours I responded to, drew out explaining why I had called you that, and then when I finally did explain* shamed you for making me explain it instead of looking it up on your own, would you say I was being completely reasonable?

*In case you're curious, assuming you know what someone picked up from being immersed in society and saying it's easy to accurately educate yourself on a social issue like race just by looking it up online does not hold true for neurodivergent people. I wouldn't necessarily go to calling someone ableist for not taking that into account immediately, but assuming how neurotypical people respond to things is how everyone does it is a symptom of a systemic discrimination issue.

Bro what the fuck are you talking about? Drew out? Did you actually read this whole topic or just read the last couple things and make assumptions? Im not going to explain how conversations work to you.

Im neurodivergent. Im not assuming shit. If youre here posting on gamefaqs theres literally no excuse. Being neurodivergent doesnt absolve you from doing research, and for most people it doesnt prevent researching things. Neurodivergence is never an excuse for being an asshole, a sentiment that the many neurodivergent people in my life all agree with.

What are you even trying to say here? You are stretching extremely hard. Yes, if you told me I was being ableist and I didnt understand and you said its not my job to explain this to you, Id go damn, you right, I better go look it up instead of acting like a little fucking baby about it.

Luckily Im pretty well versed on ableism as well, and youre not making any actual points here. Other than the weird assumption that a neurodivergent person posting on gamefaqs cant use Google. What kind of weird point is that? Its ableist to assume a person can use Google if theyre on gamefaqs. No. Shut up.

Zonbei posted...

Bro what the fuck are you talking about? Drew out? Did you actually read this whole topic or just read the last couple things and make assumptions? Im not going to explain how conversations work to you.

Im neurodivergent. Im not assuming shit. If youre here posting on gamefaqs theres literally no excuse. Being neurodivergent doesnt absolve you from doing research, and for most people it doesnt prevent researching things. Neurodivergence is never an excuse for being an asshole, a sentiment that the many neurodivergent people in my life all agree with.

What are you even trying to say here? You are stretching extremely hard. Yes, if you told me I was being ableist and I didnt understand and you said its not my job to explain this to you, Id go damn, you right, I better go look it up instead of acting like a little fucking baby about it.

Luckily Im pretty well versed on ableism as well, and youre not making any actual points here. Other than the weird assumption that a neurodivergent person posting on gamefaqs cant use Google. What kind of weird point is that? Its ableist to assume a person can use Google if theyre on gamefaqs. No. Shut up.

Yeah, you're clearly just trolling at this point. I said knowing what was accurate information on a concept like being antiracist in everyday life was something it might be hard to figure out, and you fucking jumped to "you said neurodivergent people can't use Google!!!" And vomiting up "neurodivergence isn't an excuse!" because I dared suggest it might make anything more difficult is something I'm willing to call ableist, fuck that catchphrase. So go look up why I fucking hate that phrase so much.

KI_Simpson posted...

Yeah, you're clearly just trolling at this point. I said knowing what was accurate information on a concept like being antiracist in everyday life was something it might be hard to figure out, and you fucking jumped to "you said neurodivergent people can't use Google!!!" And vomiting up "neurodivergence isn't an excuse!" because I dared suggest it might make anything more difficult is something I'm willing to call ableist, fuck that catchphrase. So go look up why I fucking hate that phrase so much.

You can literally just google it. This isnt some arcane info thats hard to find. Thats why its so silly to expect every random person to explain it to you if they so much as mention that privilege exists and everyone has racism taught to them, which is the thing that actually happened. If its hard for you to figure out, thats still *not the problem of POC.* neurodivergent or not.

again, Im literally disabled and neurodivergent. I did not say neurodivergence isnt an excuse because you said it might make things more difficult. I said its not an excuse to be an asshole. I never refuted it could make things more difficult. You still have to do it.

I jumped to Google because that is the route by which it is easy to learn these things. Not sure why that isnt clear to you. There are plenty of neurodivergent people and disabled people that may have difficulty learning these things on Google. But Im pretty sure theyre not regularly posting on gamefaqs whining about not having systemic racism explained to them.

Zonbei posted...

You can literally just google it. This isnt some arcane info thats hard to find. Thats why its so silly to expect every random person to explain it to you if they so much as mention that privilege exists and everyone has racism taught to them, which is the thing that actually happened. If its hard for you to figure out, thats still *not the problem of POC.* neurodivergent or not.

again, Im literally disabled and neurodivergent. I did not say neurodivergence isnt an excuse because you said it might make things more difficult. I said its not an excuse to be an asshole.

I jumped to Google because that is the route by which it is easy to learn these things. Not sure why that isnt clear to you. There are plenty of neurodivergent people and disabled people that may have difficulty learning these things on Google. But Im pretty sure theyre not regularly posting on gamefaqs whining about not having systemic racism explained to them.

You are still going out of your way to ignore what I said the potential problem was. I didn't say... why the fucking hell am I giving myself nausea trying to word things in a perfect way you won't (quite possibly intentionally) misunderstand!? Knowing what information about being antiracist is accurate can be difficult if you're neurodivergent (and no, you don't get to speak for every neurodivergent person who can type GameFAQs messages), and you are a massive hypocrite for demanding I explain every detail of it because you are pretending I said literally typing the question into Google was the issue.

KI_Simpson posted...

You are still going out of your way to ignore what I said the potential problem was. I didn't say... why the fucking hell am I giving myself nausea trying to word things in a perfect way you won't (quite possibly intentionally) misunderstand!? Knowing what information about being antiracist is accurate can be difficult if you're neurodivergent (and no, you don't get to speak for every neurodivergent person who can type GameFAQs messages), and you are a massive hypocrite for demanding I explain every detail of it because you are pretending I said literally typing the question into Google was the issue.

Literally typing it into Google is how you find the information. I dont know what else to tell you. It isnt difficult to figure out whats accurate any more than it is any other thing ever. pretending like being neurodivergent somehow makes it too hard, and that telling people to google it rather than teaching them is ableist, is fucking ridiculous. That is literally your point: how dare you not explain things to people at length and tell them to Google it, thats ableist. No, no it fucking isnt. Not my job. If they cant Google it, or cant tell whats accurate on their own, seek other routes of education, get friends to help you, whatever. Still isnt my fucking problem, still their responsibility.

I am not asking you to explain anything at this point. Youre doing that all on your own, for some reason. My only real question was why dont you explain what your problem is. After that, rhetorical questions only. Theres no hypocrisy here, and I dont need or want you to spell out your bizarre reasoning. Maybe youd feel better if you didnt assume everyone speaking to you is purposely misunderstanding you.

Zonbei posted...

Literally typing it into Google is how you find the information. I dont know what else to tell you. It isnt difficult to figure out whats accurate any more than it is any other thing ever. pretending like being neurodivergent somehow makes it too hard, and that telling people to google it rather than teaching them is ableist, is fucking ridiculous. That is literally your point: how dare you not explain things to people at length and tell them to Google it, thats ableist. No, no it fucking isnt. Not my job. If they cant Google it, or cant tell whats accurate on their own, seek other routes of education, get friends to help you, whatever. Still isnt my fucking problem, still their responsibility.

I am not asking you to explain anything. Youre doing that all on your own, for some reason. Theres no hypocrisy here. Maybe youd feel better if you didnt assume everyone speaking to you is purposely misunderstanding you.

I am starting to feel physically sick because of this stupid "did I word this in a way that no one could possibly misinterpret?" game, no more engagement. (edited to be less argument based since I really am going to disengage)

KI_Simpson posted...

You're lying about what I said and then blaming me for responding to it. I never told you to explain anything, you also explained something on your own, then went on to mock the person you explained it to instead of just fucking saying that you didn't want to explain it. You proved my point that you would respond with extreme hostility if someone implied you had done something wrong, and I am starting to feel physically sick because of this stupid "did I word this in a way that no one could possibly misinterpret?" game you're using against me, no more engagement.

I explained things to them despite the fact I dont have to, because they kept acting like I had to. Again, did you even read it all? Your response doesnt really take into account basically anything I said, now or earlier. You seem fixated on one specific thing where you think Im referring to you when Im referring to the earlier poster you decided to run in and defend.

This literally has nothing to do with you wording it the wrong way, or misinterpreting. Unless youre somehow just saying the exact opposite of what you mean and thats what you mean by wording.

I also dont think you know what extreme hostility is. You implied I did something wrong. I have explained to you that I didnt. Literally no clue what your problem is at this point, if Im being honest. You seem to be having an argument with some totally different person that isnt me.

KI_Simpson posted...

In case you're curious, assuming you know what someone picked up from being immersed in society and saying it's easy to accurately educate yourself on a social issue like race just by looking it up online does not hold true for neurodivergent people. I wouldn't necessarily go to calling someone ableist for not taking that into account immediately, but assuming how neurotypical people respond to things is how everyone does it is a symptom of a systemic discrimination issue.

That's pretty infantilizing for neurodivergent people.

DrizztLink posted...

That's pretty infantilizing for neurodivergent people.

No it fucking isn't, not understanding what people mean automatically is a common symptom that I have had happen countless times.

EDIT: And that's all I'm going to say about it, I want this to end.

Zonbei posted...

Literally typing it into Google is how you find the information.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6615a8ce.png