Current Events > It lowkey sucks FF7 Remake is 3 parts

(+) Yeah! (+)

PowerOats posted...

Progress carryover is overrated. If people came into Rebirth with decked out materia and Limit Accessories, people would complain the game is too easy, and currently they are complaining it's too hard, so yeah.

You are really exaggerating how hard it is to just powerscale throughout the 3 games.

Foppe posted...

I mean, if you only care about levels, special items and Djinns, you only need 16 characters *shruggs*
Or use a link cable.

VirtuousWrath posted...

It wasn't about grinding. The first game had, iirc, the Cleric's Ring which was required in the second game to use one of the ultimate swords without any punishment. So if you didn't do a good enough job in the first game, you'd miss out on using one of the game's best weapons unencumbered.

Well jeez just take me seriously, why don't ya.

it feels like the first remake is just getting a remake and that one gets another remake

Jupiter posted...

I just did a quick Google search since I don't remember this being the case, and only certain things carry over like player appearance and a few attacks. Definitely not entire levels, stats, etc

I have no idea about the other games. Half of them I never even heard of.

Game leaves out levels/stats most likely due to balance issue. Some series transfer only the choices you made during previous game but this count as progress for narrative purpose. You already knew about pokemon, mass effect, xenoverse, and golden sun. Here's the rest.

The Witcher: choices, some items (1 to 2). choices (2 to 3)
Quest for Glory: characters
Baldur's Gate 1, 2: characters, items (?)
Dragon Age: choices
Wizardry: party, some equipments(?). irregular save transfer path here.
Champions of Norrath: characters
Pillars of Eternity: choices
Banner Saga: levels, items, dead/alive chars

MrMojoRising posted...

none of these are from the current generation
none is a final fantasy
only 1 is a jrpg, and I'm sure the ds one didn't have the save feature for golden sun
literally pokemon lol

why would anyone expect this feature to be in this game again?

Got it, older games were made better than current gen games.

lowkey? That's the worst thing about this remake.

thisworld posted...

Baldur's Gate 1, 2: characters, items (?)

A few specific items for 1 to 2 (with a few extras from Siege of Dragonspear I don't know about), then 2 to the expansion is a straight transfer of your party.

The alternative would be to gimp the level cap and spells for the first two games.

Foppe posted...

*Looks at Golden Sun 2*
It transfers your endgame levels, stats, items and equipment.

Yeah, and requires an elaborate password system for everything, and the characters from Golden Sun 1 only become available close to the end of the game, where they're (likely) around the same level as the rest of the party at that point. It's not starting you off with a fully leveled and geared Isaac/Mia/Ivan/Garrett from the very start.

Its basically a sequel trilogy, I dont understand the drama around it

CTrunks posted...

Yeah, and requires an elaborate password system for everything, and the characters from Golden Sun 1 only become available close to the end of the game, where they're (likely) around the same level as the rest of the party at that point. It's not starting you off with a fully leveled and geared Isaac/Mia/Ivan/Garrett from the very start.

Use a link cable.

imho just because other trilogies start you over too, doesn't make it ok. i hate that too. get creative and give me some payoff for working my ass off in part 1.

gmanthebest posted...

Got it, older games were made better than current gen games.

Ok, realizing that makes more sense than expecting a niche feature that was never commonplace and hasn't even been around for years. Good job.

A JRPG where you start out at max level with all the gear and progress from another full game sounds boring as fuck and Im glad they didnt make Rebirth that way.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

A JRPG where you start out at max level with all the gear and progress from another full game sounds boring as fuck and Im glad they didnt make Rebirth that way.

Why do you think this is how it would be?

CheshireSimper posted...

Why do you think this is how it would be?

Look, we've only had RPGs for half a century, nobody has ever figured out how to balance one. It's probably impossible and we shouldn't try.

It's really a mystery how the original solved this issue.

CheshireSimper posted...

It's really a mystery how the original solved this issue.

This is really disingenuous. The original was just a single game. The trilogy is 3 different games.

Jupiter posted...

This is really disingenuous. The original was just a single game. The trilogy is 3 different games.

What's the difference? See my graph earlier.

FunWithAFryPan posted...

A JRPG where you start out at max level with all the gear and progress from another full game sounds boring as fuck and Im glad they didnt make Rebirth that way.

Dang, how did .hack and .hack//G.U. manage to prevent overleveling?

Foppe posted...

Use a link cable.

because every kid had a 2nd gba lying around right

Nobody has been able to explain why it being 3 separately released parts affects this at all. Despite this, the overwhelming sentiment is that this changes things. I think this is just people reasoning backwards from what was done.

CheshireSimper posted...

Nobody has been able to explain why it being 3 separately released parts affects this at all. Despite this, the overwhelming sentiment is that this changes things. I think this is just people reasoning backwards from what was done.

I'm not really sure what's confusing about it.

Final Fantasy games tend to have a similar kind of progression. Fire then Fira then Firaga for example.

Final Fantasy VII Remake is no different. By the end of that game the weapons, spells and abilities are all endgame like any other Final Fantasy game. So in order to carry over progression they'd either need to cap out the limit very early in Remake or make Rebirth into a New Game+ type experience where you barely progress anything at all.

That doesn't go into how any game that is a sequel also has a goal to onboard new players. Games like this purposefully get more complex as the game progresses.

CheshireSimper posted...

Nobody has been able to explain why it being 3 separately released parts affects this at all. Despite this, the overwhelming sentiment is that this changes things. I think this is just people reasoning backwards from what was done.

I'm not saying it couldn't have been done (it could have been done if the developers wanted it to, but they didn't). I'm saying "the problem of progress carrying over was solved in the original game" makes no sense because carried into what? The original game is just 1 game. Saying the problem was solved in the first game is like me saying the problem is solved in Remake by carrying your progress into the next chapter or retaining your progress when doing chapter select.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I'm not really sure what's confusing about it.

Final Fantasy games tend to have a similar kind of progression. Fire then Fira then Firaga for example.

Final Fantasy VII Remake is no different. By the end of that game the weapons, spells and abilities are all endgame like any other Final Fantasy game. So in order to carry over progression they'd either need to cap out the limit very early in Remake or make Rebirth into a New Game+ type experience where you barely progress anything at all.

That doesn't go into how any game that is a sequel also has a goal to onboard new players. Games like this purposefully get more complex as the game progresses.

...just scale progress as if it were one game. That's all. Just think "i'm making multiple games that follow a single progression, let's scale things such that by the end of the last game you are roughly where we expect players to max out".

Could a player spend a shit ton of time at the end of one part and overlevel such that the beginning of the next part is too easy? Sure. But that possibility exists, always, at any point in all RPGs.

Tora_Sami posted...

This, would have been easy to do. Just a easy item transfer. It's not like your not going to get better equipment. People who have a precious save may have a boost because of leveled equipment but it's not like it will carry them through the whole game. just put a level cap on the save data or something.

Rebirth quite literally doesnt even have the same weapon systems or ability system as remake. I dont have any clue how you people think they would transfer anything over. Have you even played the damn game?

They didnt have it transfer over because it doesnt make any sense to, for numerous reasons. They want everyone to start at the same place for balance reasons, and so they can iterate on and improve the games between installments. Its not that hard to understand.

Foppe posted...

Use a link cable.

Yeah, just have two Gameboys, obviously.

(Im making fun of you, richy rich)

CheshireSimper posted...

...just scale progress as if it were one game. That's all. Just think "i'm making multiple games that follow a single progression, let's scale things such that by the end of the last game you are roughly where we expect players to max out".

Could a player spend a shit ton of time at the end of one part and overlevel such that the beginning of the next part is too easy? Sure. But that possibility exists, always, at any point in all RPGs.

This implies its just three games with the exact same gameplay and systems, and thats not the case, and Rebirth is better for it.

Zonbei posted...

This implies its just three games with the exact same gameplay and systems, and thats not the case, and Rebirth is better for it.

Yes, it implies they would set out to make a cohesive remake. Exactly what this thread is complaining they chose not to do.

Foppe posted...

Dang, how did .hack and .hack//G.U. manage to prevent overleveling?

largely by making the things you carry over immediately irrelevant. Like instantly. Like the carryover literally has no purpose.

add on that its the same exact gameplay and systems for the entirety of the first quadrilogy.

CheshireSimper posted...

Yes, it implies they would set out to make a cohesive remake. Exactly what this thread is complaining they chose not to do.

You mean a worse remake. Just say you wanted them to do it 1:1, the boring way, like I know you want to.

as it is, theyre improving and iterating. Rebirth has new things and new systems, which makes it more fun to engage with rather than just doing the exact same thing as the last game. It also means you arent stuck using Fire the entire first game and get to use Firaga. There are huge design benefits to doing it this way, far more benefits than downsides. The benefit of carryover is.. what even? You have some stuff that is swiftly outclassed for the first 30 minutes of the game?

It turns out the professional game designers actually thought this through rather well and went with the option that makes the most sense, and know better than random internet commenter who wants them to just create FF7 but shiny.

I think you've put almost no thought into why this is a big deal for some people. I get you liked the new games. That's great for you. People can still complain about a very reasonable expectation, which is when a single RPG gets remade, being able to play it like an RPG, rather than a series of action games with a cohesive story.

CheshireSimper posted...

...just scale progress as if it were one game. That's all. Just think "i'm making multiple games that follow a single progression, let's scale things such that by the end of the last game you are roughly where we expect players to max out".

Could a player spend a shit ton of time at the end of one part and overlevel such that the beginning of the next part is too easy? Sure. But that possibility exists, always, at any point in all RPGs.

Which would mean that Remake and Rebirth would be two full games with less materia, spells, abilities and weapons than any other single Final Fantasy game.

Rebirth is a 60-100 hour game alone.

Progress would feel ridiculously slow.

CheshireSimper posted...

I think you've put almost no thought into why this is a big deal for some people. I get you liked the new games. That's great for you. People can still complain about a very reasonable expectation, which is when a single RPG gets remade, being able to play it like an RPG, rather than a series of action games with a cohesive story.

so go play the remaster on Steam

CheshireSimper posted...

I think you've put almost no thought into why this is a big deal for some people. I get you liked the new games. That's great for you. People can still complain about a very reasonable expectation, which is when a single RPG gets remade, being able to play it like an RPG, rather than a series of action games with a cohesive story.

Ive out a lot of thought into why its a big deal for people. Thats why I understand that its a big deal because they have a concept in their mind, that the remake should be the same a the original, regardless of any practicalities. Its the principle that matters to them, even if doing what they want would actually make the game worse or have basically no effect.

This reasonable expectation would not make the game better. Its a thing that barely matters. It has an effect for maybe the first hour of gameplay. Its not worth keeping everything the same for three games instead of improving as they go along. It is in fact not a reasonable expectation at all.

This isnt one game. Its three standalone games. Theyre individually balanced. This was a choice made for good reasons. Get over it.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Which would mean that Remake and Rebirth would be two full games with less materia, spells, abilities and weapons than any other single Final Fantasy game.

Rebirth is a 60-100 hour game alone.

Progress would feel ridiculously slow.

Not to mention every new system in Rebirth like the folios and the way weapons work now would have to be removed and stay the same as remake. What a good trade.

As opposed to what? One continuous remake that takes over a decade to come out and is hundreds of gigabytes in size?

Punished_Blinx posted...

Progress would feel ridiculously slow.

Not really when you actually do the story stuff, but there's A LOT of bloat in it to keep you from doing the story stuff. It's also a big minigame collection

gmanthebest posted...

Not really when you actually do the story stuff, but there's A LOT of bloat in it to keep you from doing the story stuff. It's also a big minigame collection

Those bastards, giving you optional content to do in a jrpg. This is unprecedented.

anyways Im off to play triple triad and get less than 0 seconds time in a chocobo race so I can use my ultimate weapon to fight Ultros for the 10th time

gmanthebest posted...

Not really when you actually do the story stuff, but there's A LOT of bloat in it to keep you from doing the story stuff. It's also a big minigame collection

I'm not talking about the story. I'm talking about leveling progress in this hypothetical version where Rebirth only has midgame levels, equipment and abilities.

Zonbei posted...

Those bastards, giving you optional content to do in a jrpg. This is unprecedented.

anyways Im off to play triple triad and get less than 0 seconds time in a chocobo race so I can use my ultimate weapon to fight Ultros for the 10th time

Optional content is good when it doesn't feel like a chore. Literal Ubisoft checklist in every region. And yeah, the old games had minigames, but they didn't take up a large portion of the game

gmanthebest posted...

Optional content is good when it doesn't feel like a chore. Literal Ubisoft checklist in every region. And yeah, the old games had minigames, but they didn't take up a large portion of the game

If you dont like the checklist then dont do it. If you dont like the minigames dont play them. Do the stuff that was in the original game, and be happy. Or, play the original game.

Yall act like the fucking grinding in every one of the turn based final fantasies and the random encounters every three steps werent a chore. I dont know how any of you people got through the original. If FF7 released today (ignoring how dated it is) youd all be complaining about how much of a slog it is. Chocobo breeding? What kind of bullshit is that?

Zonbei posted...

If you dont like the checklist then dont do it. If you dont like the minigames dont play them. Do the stuff that was in the original game, and be happy. Or, play the original game.

Sorry for bringing up valid criticism

gmanthebest posted...

Sorry for bringing up valid criticism

Really isnt particularly valid. Sorry they put in Ubisoft towers and you cant get over it.

I think some people have a hard time believing that people actually like rpg mechanics.

Imagine if every WoW expansion deleted your characters for "balance".

CheshireSimper posted...

I think some people have a hard time believing that people actually like rpg mechanics.

Has absolutely nothing to do with carryover. This game could be hardcore turn based rpg and they could still decide not to do carryover. So thats one thing.

I love rpg mechanics. Im a big time lover of turn based RPGs. All my favorite RPGs are turn based. Chrono trigger, FFVI, FFX, etc.

But I also like many other kinds of games, and Im not going to act like a whiny little baby because a remake isnt turn based.

that all said, FF7 has plenty of RPG mechanics.

Zonbei posted...

Really isnt particularly valid. Sorry they put in Ubisoft towers and you cant get over it.

Damn, it's a good thing you're here to tell me what is and isn't valid criticism of a game that I purchased. What would I ever do without you?

CheshireSimper posted...

Imagine if every WoW expansion deleted your characters for "balance".

What an insane false equivalence.

gmanthebest posted...

Damn, it's a good thing you're here to tell me what is and isn't valid criticism of a game that I purchased. What would I ever do without you?

Probably keep whining forever about inconsequential things on gamefaqs, I would imagine.