Current Events > smh at people complaining the US dropping food into Palestine.

(+) Yeah! (+)

LoZguy709 posted...

Who were the people demanding we not support FDR because of the Holocaust?

nazis.

The blunt truth is that a good chunk of the GOP think the Middle East has been nothing but a source of misery to America for like decades...and deserve to suffer...most seem to just want them gone.

1337toothbrush posted...

nazis.

You know damn well I mean the people suggesting we not support FDR because they thought more should be done about the genocides that were ongoing at the time.

I'm not saying there weren't any, but Democrats back then didn't outright suck at solidarity.

LoZguy709 posted...

by demanding something that would lose support of the majority swing voters

Based off what?

Since so many people on CE keep framing this as some minority opinion that can safely be ignored, I keep this list saved:

--------

68% of US respondents support a ceasefire [Reuters/Ipsos]:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/15/poll-us-israel-support-hamas-war

45% of Dems say Israel is going too far in its military operation [Pew]:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

64% of Dems think US should negotiate a permanent ceasefire [AP-NORC]:
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-israeli-hamas-war-poll-9f9e9bd2ea595ece43f151d8722e47ad

75% of voters under 30 disapprove of Biden's handling of the crisis, 57% of entire population [NYT/Siena]:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-poll.html

Even among Republicans and Jews in the US support for a cease fire is higher than opposition of it [ISPU]
+ 61% of Dems, 57% of Independents support US calling for a cease fire [Data For Progress]:
https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/u-s-polls-show-shifting-landscapes-on-gaza-ceasefire/

50% of Biden voters think Israel is committing genocide [YouGov/The Economist]:
https://www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1?op=1&r=US&IR=T

63% of Democrats, 67% of adults younger than 35, and 64% people of color disapprove of Israel's actions. 75% of Independents disapprove [Gallup]:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/545045/americans-back-israel-military-action-gaza.aspx

63% of Dems say Israel has gone too far, 52% of Independents. 70% of Dems under 30 disapprove of Biden's handling [AP-NORC]:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1

77% of Dems support a cease fire, 60% of Independents [YouGov/The Economist]:
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48002-americans-support-ceasefires-israel-hamas-russia-ukraine-wars

Hornezz posted...

Based off what?

Since so many people on CE keep framing this as some minority opinion that can safely be ignored, I keep this list saved:

--------

68% of US respondents support a ceasefire [Reuters/Ipsos]:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/15/poll-us-israel-support-hamas-war

45% of Dems say Israel is going too far in its military operation [Pew]:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

64% of Dems think US should negotiate a permanent ceasefire [AP-NORC]:
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-israeli-hamas-war-poll-9f9e9bd2ea595ece43f151d8722e47ad

75% of voters under 30 disapprove of Biden's handling of the crisis, 57% of entire population [NYT/Siena]:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/19/us/politics/biden-israel-gaza-poll.html

Even among Republicans and Jews in the US support for a cease fire is higher than opposition of it [ISPU]
+ 61% of Dems, 57% of Independents support US calling for a cease fire [Data For Progress]:
https://bridge.georgetown.edu/research/u-s-polls-show-shifting-landscapes-on-gaza-ceasefire/

50% of Biden voters think Israel is committing genocide [YouGov/The Economist]:
https://www.businessinsider.com/half-biden-voters-israel-genocide-palestinians-gaza-poll-2024-1?op=1&r=US&IR=T

63% of Democrats, 67% of adults younger than 35, and 64% people of color disapprove of Israel's actions. 75% of Independents disapprove [Gallup]:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/545045/americans-back-israel-military-action-gaza.aspx

63% of Dems say Israel has gone too far, 52% of Independents. 70% of Dems under 30 disapprove of Biden's handling [AP-NORC]:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-poll-biden-war-gaza-4159b28d313c6c37abdb7f14162bcdd1

77% of Dems support a cease fire, 60% of Independents [YouGov/The Economist]:
https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/48002-americans-support-ceasefires-israel-hamas-russia-ukraine-wars

None of those polls ask whether or not Biden should cut off funding for Israel over the issue, which users on here have suggested he do in an effort to demand a ceasefire. It's not like we don't already know Biden is pro-ceasefire.

Hornezz posted...

68% of US respondents support a ceasefire [Reuters/Ipsos]:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/nov/15/poll-us-israel-support-hamas-war

Biden admin has also publicly called for a ceasefire
https://www.meidastouch.com/news/vice-president-harris-calls-for-immediate-ceasefire-urges-hamas-to-accept-deal

Hornezz posted...

45% of Dems say Israel is going too far in its military operation [Pew]:
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/12/08/americans-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/

Only 32% of Dems want us to actually decrease military aid

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/59ae1dc5.jpg

Biden admin is literally working directly with Israel and Hamas for a ceasefire, which is what most people want.

A majority of Dems don't want us to decrease military aid.

Don't get me wrong, I think we should absolutely stop aid to Israel. I don't think it will change what they're doing, but I still think we should end the aid.
I just think it's a complete error to think the majority of people actually want Biden to go up and accuse Bibi of genocide and break our general alliance.

I actually would like a discussion on what the political costs to Biden will be if he gets tougher on Israel. Everybody is bemoaning the political cost to his current position as it is being demonstrated in the recent Michigan primary and polls, but I'm curious on what would happen with Jewish democratic support and independent votes if he enacts some of the policies and rhetoric being called for.

Yah...the backlash from Jewish voters if he turns on them would be a lot more harmful to his chances it likely seems.

Necronmon posted...

Yah...the backlash from Jewish voters if he turns on them would be a lot more harmful to his chances it likely seems.

So they would vote for republicans then?

LoZguy709 posted...

None of those polls ask whether or not Biden should cut off funding for Israel over the issue, which users on here have suggested he do in an effort to demand a ceasefire.

You're ignoring the polls that say that there's a massive disapproval for Biden's handling of the situation. There's no basis for your claim that Biden would lose support from swing voters.

Calling for a cease fire isn't fucking over Biden's election chances, it's his own inaction.

It's not like we don't already know Biden is pro-ceasefire.

Quoting the the Secretary General of MSF, right after the US vetoed a third cease fire resolution a few days ago:

A new draft resolution by the United States ostensibly calls for a ceasefire. However, this is misleading at best. This Council should reject any resolution that further hampers humanitarian efforts on the ground and leads this Council to tacitly endorse the continued violence and mass atrocities in Gaza. The people of Gaza need a ceasefire not when practicable, but now. They need a sustained ceasefire, not a temporary period of calm. Anything short of this is gross negligence.

So they would vote for republicans then?

If the Muslim vote would turn on him for " Betraying them" then there is nothing to say the Jewish vote would not do the same.

Biden will feel so owned when the Muslim voters get deported by the fascist they allow to win by not voting with their heads.

Hornezz posted...

They need a sustained ceasefire, not a temporary period of calm.

A ceasefire is be definition temporary. It gives you the environment to work out a lasting peace deal. And again, the negotiations happening between Israel and Hamas is much more important the UN resolutions which don't even include Hamas do they?

Hornezz posted...

You're ignoring the polls that say that there's a massive disapproval for Biden's handling of the situation. There's no basis for your claim that Biden would lose support from swing voters.

Calling for a cease fire isn't fucking over Biden's election chances, it's his own inaction.

Quoting the the Secretary General of MSF, right after the US vetoed a third cease fire resolution a few days ago:

Yeah, the disagreement turns on how immediately and with what level of intensity should a ceasefire be demanded. I don't want to get into a research battle here, but I have a sense that immediately cutting off all aid to Israel would lose Biden more supporters than gain him supporters.

emblem-man posted...

A ceasefire is be definition temporary. It gives you the environment to work out a lasting peace deal. And again, the negotiations happening between Israel and Hamas is much more important the UN resolutions which don't even include Hamas do they?

The UN resolutions provide diplomatic backing. As long as the US keeps vetoing them, it's a signal to the rest of the world that Israel still has their support. The US openly telling the rest of the world to stay out of it, means a lot of the Western world wouldn't dare to impose sanctions.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Biden will feel so owned when the Muslim voters get deported by the fascist they allow to win by not voting with their heads.

A lot of CE liberals are getting awfully giddy over the idea of deporting muslims. I'm sure this will get the protest voters back on board.

Hornezz posted...

A lot of CE liberals are getting awfully giddy over the idea of deporting muslims.

Try again.

LoZguy709 posted...

I don't want to get into a research battle here, but I have a sense that immediately cutting off all aid to Israel would lose Biden more supporters than gain him supporters.

I don't think a meaningful political discussion can be had based on 'I have a sense'

DrizztLink posted...

Try again.

Nah, by no means the first time I'm seeing that take around here.

Hornezz posted...

I don't think a meaningful political discussion can be had based on 'I have a sense'

Maybe not. I'm just not here to get invested into the stats war so it will have to speak for itself. Props to those users that don't mind taking the initiative to do so.

Hornezz posted...

The UN resolutions provide diplomatic backing. As long as the US keeps vetoing them, it's a signal to the rest of the world that Israel still has their support. The US openly telling the rest of the world to stay out of it, means a lot of the Western world wouldn't dare to impose sanctions.

Considering that the terms of the UN resolutions differ from the deal actually being worked by Israel and Hamas, I don't think it makes sense to focus on that one

emblem-man posted...

Considering that the terms of the UN resolutions differ from the deal actually being worked by Israel and Hamas, I don't think it makes sense to focus on that one

Literally every other country in the world besides Israel and the US are looking at that one.

And the two parties actually in a war are looking at a different one. But both Israel and Hamas are being little shits who both won't agree to certain terms of the deal.

https://www.meidastouch.com/news/vice-president-harris-calls-for-immediate-ceasefire-urges-hamas-to-accept-deal

But it seems like I misunderstood and what people are really wanting is for countries to impose sanctions on Israel, and that's what they mean by "call for a ceasefire"?