Current Events > What is everyone's thoughts on the F13th rights situation?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Basically. Victor Miller wrote the original F13th under contract. He then later on sued for the rights to Jason and won partially, which is why we don't see anything with Jason in it anymore. Dude not only didn't come up with anything involving Jason, but is a bitter old man that is fine letting the franchise die.

Personally, I feel that if you complete a job under contract, you shouldn't own that. You're doing a job. Same stuff with that Sonic Archie comics guy tbh.

Depends on the original contract.

Do we really want 'anything you come up with belongs to your employer in all circumstances'?

Seems a high price to pay for more Friday 13th content.

While Miller did have a case about the money he was owed, he did not create Jason as we know him today, considering that all we see of Jason in the first movie was a fake out scare at the end. Jason in the second movie was a hillbilly with a sack over his head, and it wasn't until the third movie that he got his iconic hockey mask.

All I know is that I am pretty salty this whole thing effected the genuinely pretty fun friday the 13th video game and so every single one of their DLC expansion plans had to get scrapped. My friend and I had way too many goofy moments with the randoms and a shit talking jason.

ai123 posted...

Depends on the original contract.

Do we really want 'anything you come up with belongs to your employer in all circumstances'?

Seems a high price to pay for more Friday 13th content.

There's a big difference between 'everything you come up with belongs to your employer' and 'you wrote a piece of media as part of a transaction but after 35 years you can get it back'. Miller had nothing to do with Jason as a character beyond a brief bit of origin and a dream sequence. He was paid for what he did and now intends to let his side if what he now owns to rot. In terms of pure concept, I believe if you are hired to make something, it should be considered owned by the person who hired you.

It's as simple as that. Same thing if I ask someone to record a piece of a beat for me because I plan to write a song. The song's ownership shouldn't come into question because of it. Or if I commission art. If the agreement in place is that I own it now, it should be mine. Same if I were to make the art. This isn't to say credit should not be given, but the art shouldn't revert back to the person who did it originally because why not. It's absurd.

Fenriswolf posted...

While Miller did have a case about the money he was owed, he did not create Jason as we know him today, considering that all we see of Jason in the first movie was a fake out scare at the end. Jason in the second movie was a hillbilly with a sack over his head, and it wasn't until the third movie that he got his iconic hockey mask.

I don't think he even had a case about the money. He was paid to do a job, and he did the job. It's as simple as that. He signed the contract and knew what he was getting into.

Mad-Dogg posted...

All I know is that I am pretty salty this whole thing effected the genuinely pretty fun friday the 13th video game and so every single one of their DLC expansion plans had to get scrapped. My friend and I had way too many goofy moments with the randoms and a shit talking jason.

I agree with this too.

Slayer_22 posted...

Same stuff with that Sonic Archie comics guy tbh.

At least with this, part of the blame lies on Archie's incompetence, if I remember correctly. Pretty sure they actually lost the contract or some other document that would've shut ponders down lol

Slayer_22 posted...

There's a big difference between 'everything you come up with belongs to your employer' and 'you wrote a piece of media as part of a transaction but after 35 years you can get it back'. Miller had nothing to do with Jason as a character beyond a brief bit of origin and a dream sequence. He was paid for what he did and now intends to let his side if what he now owns to rot. In terms of pure concept, I believe if you are hired to make something, it should be considered owned by the person who hired you.

It's as simple as that. Same thing if I ask someone to record a piece of a beat for me because I plan to write a song. The song's ownership shouldn't come into question because of it. Or if I commission art. If the agreement in place is that I own it now, it should be mine. Same if I were to make the art. This isn't to say credit should not be given, but the art shouldn't revert back to the person who did it originally because why not. It's absurd.

I don't think he even had a case about the money. He was paid to do a job, and he did the job. It's as simple as that. He signed the contract and knew what he was getting into.

I agree with this too.

This is why I say it depends on the contract. Some do specify that an employer owns whatever an employee comes up with. Some licence it for a time period before the rights revert to the creator.

I just think 'I would like to see some more of this IP' is not really relevant to the contractual dispute.

ai123 posted...

This is why I say it depends on the contract. Some do specify that an employer owns whatever an employee comes up with. Some licence it for a time period before the rights revert to the creator.

I just think 'I would like to see some more of this IP' is not really relevant to the contractual dispute.

Iirc it was because 35 years passed and the Supreme Court made a law back in 1975 that allows writers to petition for ownership of it.

It's just dumb and nonsense. I would like to see more of Jason, but courts split Jason and the series down the middle so hard it is almost impossible for anyone to make any money off the idea of it alone. So, in essence, the idea of Jason and F13th changed so much that the courts agreed to split it down the middle despite it not really making sense since Jason as an entity is barely tied to Miller's work.

So yes, I would like to see the IP but also the whole case is dumb in general.

Kim_Seong-a posted...

At least with this, part of the blame lies on Archie's incompetence, if I remember correctly. Pretty sure they actually lost the contract or some other document that would've shut ponders down lol

Fair enough on that lol. I just think the idea of it is just...so braindead.

Can't they make a new F13th with a totally-not-Jason killer?

The TV series has nothing to do with Jason anyway

Ricemills posted...

Can't they make a new F13th with a totally-not-Jason killer?

The TV series has nothing to do with Jason anyway

Even if they could there is no interest in anything about the franchise outside of Jason at this point so why bother

All I knew is what a hell of a coincidence that there was finally some multiplayer shit was that basically made FOR me.

Then some super unique bullshit lawsuit has to come around and kill it off. God damn I loved that simply janky ass game.

"gets blasted with shotgun"

Jason...do you know what your gift is? No matter what they do to you, you CANNOT DIE!! You can never die!!

Ricemills posted...

Can't they make a new F13th with a totally-not-Jason killer?

The TV series has nothing to do with Jason anyway

Didn't work so well with Halloween or the series they did.

Slayer_22 posted...

Didn't work so well with Halloween or the series they did.

Pretty sure Jason is Mike Myers knockoff, not the otherwise.

Ricemills posted...

Pretty sure Jason is Mike Myers knockoff, not the otherwise.

Was referring to Season Of The Witch. <_<

Michael Meyers is better anyway

Zikten posted...

Michael Meyers is better anyway

Halloween's the better movie, but Jason's the improved model when it comes to masked killers.

Zikten posted...

Michael Meyers is better anyway

Basically the exact opposite situation with Michael Myers. John Carpenter basically told the studio to make whatever garbage they want as long as they cut him a check.

Ricemills posted...

Can't they make a new F13th with a totally-not-Jason killer?

Go back to Part 5 and make it a nexus point for the series. Either bring back a zombie Roy, or go with the original plan of making Tommy the new killer.

Look at the Halloween franchise. People still seem to love it and how many timeline variations are there of it now?

loafy013 posted...

Go back to Part 5 and make it a nexus point for the series. Either bring back a zombie Roy, or go with the original plan of making Tommy the new killer.

Look at the Halloween franchise. People still seem to love it and how many timeline variations are there of it now?

I don't think anyone wants Roy lol. Tommy would be interesting though...but the idea of going back before Part 6, the best movie in the series, pains my heart.

Fuck Victor Miller anyway, dude hates Jason.

It stinks that Jason is trapped in limbo like that. He's my favorite slasher villain.

I would have liked to have seen a prequel about child Jason waking up for the first time after drowning and discovering that he's literally come back from the dead. He steals clothes when and where he can. He catches or steals his food. He sees his mother at a distance, but is prevented from reaching out to her. He witnesses her battle with Alice from the first movie.

Finally, he comes to the conclusion that he can bring her back by slaying all of the teens.

Not while Miller is alive, apparently.

People having the rights to characters they created is actually pretty standard. It's why even now on Doctor Who if an episode features a returning monster you're likely to see a separate mention in the end credits for the person who wrote the first story the monster showed up in. It's why both iterations of Fraiser carry a big credit for the writers of Cheers. It's why Smallville and Gotham carry credits for the creators of Superman and Batman.

When it comes to freelancers/contractors there are caveats, of course, depending on how much was in the brief they were given when they were commissioned - to keep the Doctor Who comparison going, this is why Terry Nation's estate continue to get royalties for and control over the use of the Daleks, while Anthony Coburn's son fails repeatedly to try and claim that the rights to the TARDIS should lie with his father's estate - while both writers are credited with the initial appearance, the former full-on invented the Daleks and so has intellectual proprietorship, while the latter was working to a brief of "this is how Doctor Who and his pals are going to travel" so doesn't get to claim to have invented it. But I highly doubt that when Miller was hired he was specifically told by the studio to include a scene right at the end when a kid specifically called Jason gets out of the water for a jump scare.

So technically, going by the industry standard precedent set over decades, Miller is right to say that he created Jason Vorhees, so he has the final say over the use of character.

The fuckery here, of course, is that while Miller created Jason Vorhees, he didn't create Jason Vorhees. Literally everything that pop culture associates with the character aside from the name and the backstory came from a later flick.

I could totally be on board with matey-boy saying that he wasn't giving permission for another flick with Mrs Vorhees as the killer. That would totally be within his rights. If he wanted to say that they couldn't do any more films where Jason is a weird water goblin child then honestly I'd support that 100%, partially because of the rights issues, but mostly just because it would be a fucking stupid idea. Hell, given how iconic a setting it has become I might even go so far as to say that he should probably have the rights to Camp Crystal Lake (though that could be a Coburn/TARDIS situation).

But I think that the giant, machete-wielding, mask-wearing, slow-walking, sometimes-space-going zombie murderer is so far removed in all but name from what Miller created that it's just too tenuous to give him support here. Like... he's right, but that doesn't make him right.