Current Events > Michigan dad charged after 2-year old daughter shot herself w/ an unsecured gun.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thud posted...

my gun

Thud posted...

your home

So, is it your scenario or everybody else's you want to argue for? Because you've already tried to argue against secured firearms without knowing another person's situation.

GranAures posted...

And your situation matters very little when you try to argue in support of leaving a firearm unsecured against others by trying to paint a scenario where their unsecured firearm is still inaccessible.

It's a fuck of a lot more accessible a foot away from me than it is locked up under a bed. I'm not just going to lie there with a gun pointed at me, if someone is in your home and drawing on you you have to assume they're going to kill you and fight for your life
Wtf at this logic lmao

USA lol

GranAures posted...

So, is it your scenario or everybody else's you want to argue for? Because you've already tried to argue against secured firearms without knowing another person's situation.

Jesus christ are you always this smug and obtuse? Try reading the whole topic. I CLEARLY said if you have kids etc in the home they need to be secured. AGAIN, I do not so there is literally no reason for me to put myself at a disadvantage and lock mine up for literally no reason at all. Please explain to me who's life I'm jeopardizing by having my gun accessible at a moments notice

And yet your "seconds is all it takes" is very much in offense over the idea that basic securing is such a massive disadvantage that you felt the need to give an unsecured firearms every advantage in response to somebody saying it takes only seconds for him to access it, as if he trained to do as such. And had to put them in hyperbolic levels of disadvantage.

And yet, when it comes to you you argue for every possible advantage for yourself.

GranAures posted...

And yet your "seconds is all it takes" is very much in offense over the idea that basic securing is such a massive disadvantage that you felt the need to give an unsecured firearms every advantage in response to somebody saying it takes only seconds for him to access it. And had to put them in hyperbolic levels of disadvantage.

Again, in my home, who's safety is at risk by me not locking up my gun for absolutely no reason? You're dodging the question.

My dogs are my first line of defense. If they're fighting with an intruder those seconds are precious for me to grab my weapon and control the situation vs fucking around under my bed. My life and my dogs' lives >>>>>> some asshole who broke into my house. Seconds is all it takes for an intruder to hurt or kill, it's simply astonishing your hatred of guns is blinding you to that fact

GranAures posted...

And yet, when it comes to you you argue for every possible advantage for yourself.

I mean, yes? Fucking obviously? Not sure the point you're making here. I don't want to have to shoot someone, but if they've rolled the dice and violated my sanctuary and safety I'll take every advantage I can get and will not hesitate to end them if need be. That's not to say I'm going to immediately shoot someone in the back if I catch them rummaging around my house at 3am

Fair next. For people saying its hard to reach a secured weapon I have a beretta locked in a case under the bed that takes me literal seconds to reach and open

Thats just an excuse of shitty gun owners

Like, for the record: this is the post that made you feel the need to craft an absurd what if so as to feel superior to somebody securing their firearms. Your own scenario also increases the chance that that would be assailant is also pointing your gun at you but you oddly decided to ignore that point. Which guess what, an unsecured gun increases the chance of that gun being used by a home invader too.

Thud posted...

It's a fuck of a lot more accessible a foot away from me than it is locked up under a bed. I'm not just going to lie there with a gun pointed at me, if someone is in your home and drawing on you you have to assume they're going to kill you and fight for your life
Wtf at this logic lmao

OK soldier

Thud posted...

it's simply astonishing your hatred of guns is blinding you to that fact

Today I learned being for the basic securing of firearms, as much for your safety from someone using yours against you, means you hate guns.

You wake up in the middle of the night and see me pointing a gun at you.
You quickly grab your unsecure gun and point it at me.
You see me freeze in fear.
You smile and pull the trigger.
Nothing happen.
Of course I saw your unsecure gun and removed the bullets before waking you up, because I am no idiot.
What do you do now?

GranAures posted...

Like, for the record: this is the post that made you feel the need to craft an absurd what if so as to feel superior to somebody securing their firearms. Your own scenario also increases the chance that that would be assailant is also pointing your gun at you but you oddly decided to ignore that point. Which guess what, an unsecured gun increases the chance of that gun being used by a home invader too.

Again, my dogs almost certainly would've alerted me before it got to that point, not to mention people's bedrooms are, yknow, fucking dark at night so the odds of someone getting my gun before I'm awake are slim to none. But not impossible. Plan B is the knife between my mattress, grab the gun with right hand grab knife with left and go to work. Not ideal, but better than being at the complete mercy of an intruder. Statistics show a knife is more effective and deadly in a close quarters situation, not trying to sound Billy Badass but I have trained on how to disarm and control a situation like that.

Once again: whom am I putting in danger by not locking up my defensive tool for absolutely no reason?

MistyKnight posted...

OK soldier

"This guy won't just lie there and hope for the best while an intruder threatens him lol" is not the insult you seem to think it is.

Thud posted...

whom am I putting in danger by not locking up my defensive tool for absolutely no reason?

Who is the person who secures their gun putting in danger that made you feel the need to attack the very notion of securing a firearm?

GranAures posted...

Who is the person who secures their gun putting in danger that made you feel the need to attack the very notion of securing a firearm?

If that's seriously your take than I am very sorry your reading comprehension is at the level it is. Point out one time I "attacked" people who secured their firearm. If you could be bothered to read the entire topic, as I suggested earlier, you'd see the only ones I've "attacked" are the morons with kids in the home who choose not to secure their weapons.

Again: who am I putting in danger in my child free home by leaving my gun easily accessible to me should I need it?

Thud posted...

Point out one time I "attacked" people who secured their firearm.

GranAures posted...

notion of securing a firearm

For talk of comprehension.
Thud posted...

Seconds is all it takes to lose your life. Someone breaks in your home and you don't wake up until they're in your bedroom or standing over you with a gun drawn on you saying "give me your shit NOW" and that locked Beretta is absolutely useless and you're now at their mercy.

Oh. Or was that you flaunting that basic gun safety is useless in response to somebody saying they could get to their secured firearm in seconds by using a stacked hyperbolic what if against them?

You know what works better for home defense than an unsecured gun? A security system. Loud-ass alarms when an intruder breaks into your home do two things. First, 99% of would-be intruders will gtfo knowing they just woke up the whole neighborhood. Second, they wake you up so you aren't taken by surprise by the 1% that don't.

GranAures posted...

Oh. Or was that you flaunting that basic gun safety is useless in response to somebody saying they could get to their secured firearm in seconds by using a stacked hyperbolic what if against them?

LMFAO that is a faaaar fucking cry from "aTtAcKiNg" that poster. Merely offering a different opinion, grow up dude if that's your "gotcha" then that's a swing and a miss.

Again: who am I endangering by keeping my gun easily accessible to me in my child free home?

GranAures posted...

notion of securing a firearm?

For talk of reading comprehension you sure seem to miss the word in the very post you quoted.

But let's see: You're supposedly harming nobody, the person who presented the idea of securing his is harming nobody. Yet only one of these two people felt the need to craft a hyperbolic what if to defend their opinion and act like disagreeing with them meant people hated guns.

Thud posted...

Again, my dogs almost certainly would've alerted me before it got to that point, not to mention people's bedrooms are, yknow, fucking dark at night so the odds of someone getting my gun before I'm awake are slim to none. But not impossible. Plan B is the knife between my mattress, grab the gun with right hand grab knife with left and go to work. Not ideal, but better than being at the complete mercy of an intruder. Statistics show a knife is more effective and deadly in a close quarters situation, not trying to sound Billy Badass but I have trained on how to disarm and control a situation like that.

Why is the intruder giving you every opportunity to defend yourself? Just turn the light on and shoot you from the doorway.

Once again: whom am I putting in danger by not locking up my defensive tool for absolutely no reason?

A preteen breaking into your house and using your gun against the police like in the link I posted is far more likely than this action movie you have playing in your head.

Foppe posted...

You wake up in the middle of the night and see me pointing a gun at you.
You quickly grab your unsecure gun and point it at me.
You see me freeze in fear.
You smile and pull the trigger.
Nothing happen.
Of course I saw your unsecure gun and removed the bullets before waking you up, because I am no idiot.
What do you do now?

Ah, but you forgot one minor detail. *Bang * I always leave one in the chamber!

I just remembered, there's an episode of Six Feet Under where this happens in the opening scene.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wHyf9BLQ-_c

Good that he was charged. Only thing that will make these shit-for-brains who irresponsibly store/handle their guns is if they suffer legal consequences for it.

And no, him losing his daughter is not punishment enough, clearly, as all the other parents who've had their kids shoot themselves with their guns haven't done shit to prevent it from happening again.

darkace77450 posted...

I didn't even know Michigan passed such a law. Michigan Dems continue getting shit done. To think we could have a federal equivalent if the Republican Party wasn't beholden to the NRA.

Michigan is the state where Ethan Crumbly's parents were charged due to their role in him acquiring and using a firearm.

DarkDoc posted...

I just remembered, there's an episode of Six Feet Under where this happens in the opening scene.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=wHyf9BLQ-_c

Damn, that's some heavy and real shit right there.

I also don't doubt that when that first aired the lesson most American's took away from that was to demonize marijuana, as they no doubt blamed them smoking weed to be the bigger problem than a young child having easy access to a firearm.

Kradek posted...

Good that he was charged. Only thing that will make these shit-for-brains who irresponsibly store/handle their guns is if they suffer legal consequences for it.

And no, him losing his daughter is not punishment enough, clearly, as all the other parents who've had their kids shoot themselves with their guns haven't done shit to prevent it from happening again.

Gun owners should be liable every time their gun is used in a wrongful death, including a child accidentally killing themself or others. A study in Pittsburgh found 30% of recovered guns were reported stolen when the police contacted the purchaser to inform them their gun was used in a crime. And because there's no required paper trail or reporting for the second hand market, for 44% of guns they could not determine if the gun was stolen or not. Our system is absurdly lax which encourages irresponsible gun owners.

https://socialmedicine.info/index.php/socialmedicine/article/view/852

Kradek posted...

Damn, that's some heavy and real shit right there.

I also don't doubt that when that first aired the lesson most American's took away from that was to demonize marijuana, as they no doubt blamed them smoking weed to be the bigger problem than a young child having easy access to a firearm.

Good point. It might have been. Although this was long enough ago that people weren't discussing every minute of their lives online - plus I'm not living in America. But yeah, I could imagine some people thinking that.

It is a great show, by the way. There's a different death every week, from mundane to dramatic to funny. It's very well made.

DarkDoc posted...

Good point. It might have been. Although this was long enough ago that people weren't discussing every minute of their lives online - plus I'm not living in America. But yeah, I could imagine some people thinking that.

It is a great show, by the way. There's a different death every week, from mundane to dramatic to funny. It's very well made.

Nice, I knew of the show, however never watched it.

True the Internet wasn't what it is today, however people still frequently discussed popular and current shows.