Current Events > Israel might withdraw from Eurovision over song row with the EBU.

(+) Yeah! (+)

trivialbeing posted...

Isn't it well known that Hamas hides behind civilians? That might explain why civilian death rate is higher

Israel is deliberately using non-precision munitions for the express purpose of doing the most damage and harm.

Israel is also deliberately funneling people along specific routes and into specific zones, declaring them safe, and then promptly attacking those routes and zones.

And Israel has deliberately targeted civilians, including doctors and and children for attack. And journalists.

And caused deliberate famine and unsanitary conditions through all of Palestine in the war crime of collective punishment. On top of the other collective punishments engaged in as early as November of last year with disabling power, water, and communications infrastructure in Palestine.

And deliberately refusing to allow aid through to civilian populations. Even when they are forced to, the aid allowed through is a mere fraction of what Palestine needs to survive the genocide they're suffering under.

That's a whole hell of a lot of civilians. Hamas... can't be hiding behind so many of them that 60% of the people killed in this slow-rolling massacre were civilians. (Really. The IDF said that for every three bodies they've generated, only one is hamas, and that those are acceptable ratios.)

"Hamas uses human shields," is an excuse that has long since evaporated in the face of the evidence.

You used to be able to... live with it when the results were something like a small, precision bomb that would kill 16 people in a house to get two high-ranking terrorists. Even Obama swallowed that bitter pill in the name of doing his job.

But not when it's 30,000. That's not hamas hiding behind anyone. That's deliberate genocide.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

The Israel Hamas relationship is classic chicken and the egg.

Hamas was invited in and funded by Netanyahu.

Israel definitely came first in this conflict when he propped up a terrorist organization to create an enemy that would basically grant him political and criminal immunity as long as they still managed to exist.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I just disagree with any ceasefire without a return of the hostages and the leaders of Hamas in handcuffs because of October 7th.

"Genocide is okay, as long as we don't have the hostages. That Israel has killed more of than hamas has. Don't slow down until then."

You've... you've got issues, man.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

If at any point during the last three months I ever said that I thought that Israelis killing civilians was morally justified at all, or that terrorism against Palestinians is ok while terrorism against Israelis is not, Im pretty sure my account would have been banned already.

You did. In this same thread, in fact.

And why you're not banned for saying things like that... is honestly a mystery at this point.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I just disagree with any ceasefire without a return of the hostages and the leaders of Hamas in handcuffs because of October 7th.

DnDer posted...

Hamas was invited in and funded by Netanyahu.

This needs to be a sticky topic on its own.

trivialbeing posted...

Isn't it well known that Hamas hides behind civilians? That might explain why civilian death rate is higher

Thing is, Israel has a long and documented history of killing civilians and falsely using the human shield narrative as an excuse, even falsifying evidence. We cannot blindly accept this as a blanket justification for the killing of over 12,000 children.

Some examples:

Human Rights Watch on the 2008-2009 Gaza invasion [1]:

Human Rights Watch found no evidence that the civilian victims were used by Palestinian fighters as human shields or were shot in the crossfire between opposing forces. In each of the incidents, Israeli forces appeared in control, and Palestinian fighters had left the area in question. The civilian victims were in plain view and posed no apparent security threat.

Amnesty on the 2008-2009 war [2]:

Contrary to repeated allegations by Israeli officials of the use of human shields, Amnesty International found no evidence that Hamas or other Palestinian fighters directed the movement of civilians to shield military objectives from attacks.

During that war Israeli tanks attacked a school, killing 40. IDF released video of Hamas militants in that school as justification, but later admitted the footage was years old and unrelated to the attack. A UN inquiry found no evidence of firing coming from the school. [3]

Amnesty on the 2014 Gaza invasion [4]:

Amnesty [..] does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to shield specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks.

In 2018 the IDF killed a 21 year old medic who had her hands up. IDF then released an edited video to make it sound like she admitted to being a human shield. Several Israeli officials spread that lie, often with the phrase "she was no angel". [5]

[1] https://www.hrw.org/report/2009/08/13/white-flag-deaths/killings-palestinian-civilians-during-operation-cast-lead
[2] https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/mde15/015/2009/en/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhura_school_incident
[4] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/07/israelgaza-conflict-questions-and-answers/
[5] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-protests-latest-idf-condemned-edited-video-angel-of-mercy-medic-razan-al-najjar-a8389611.html

DnDer posted...

That's a whole hell of a lot of civilians. Hamas... can't be hiding behind so many of them that 60% of the people killed in this slow-rolling massacre were civilians. (Really. The IDF said that for every three bodies they've generated, only one is hamas, and that those are acceptable ratios.)

It is worth pointing out that Israel count every killed adult male as a Hamas member.
So every civilian father that tried to take their family someplace safe, every male journalist, every male paramedic killed, all Hamas members according to Israel.

Foppe posted...

It is worth pointing out that Israel count every killed adult male as a Hamas member.
So every civilian father that tried to take their family someplace safe, every male journalist, every male paramedic killed, all Hamas members according to Israel.

Isn't there somewhere in the I/P thread where there's someone who said, "Anyone over the age of four," counts?

We're one step short of, "Pass the mirror test? Hamas!" as their benchmark.

DnDer posted...

Isn't there somewhere in the I/P thread where there's someone who said, "Anyone over the age of four," counts?

We're one step short of, "Pass the mirror test? Hamas!" as their benchmark.

Eyup.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Very much appreciated, thank you.

Even I have to agree on that.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Not really. I thought that during the earlier days of it, and in particular that he mostly just wanted the hostages back and was just being a bit excessive when it came to the "how", but it soon became apparent the only thing that's changed is he's being a tad more careful with his wording - more dogwhistles, less direct statements.

It's still very clear he's, at best, apathetic towards the genocide of Palestinians by Israel.

Kick 'em out just like they tossed out Russia after they started invading Ukraine.