Current Events > people upset at historical accuracy now

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[deleted] 02/06/24 4:01:56 PM #27:	[deleted] <cite>[deleted] posted [p:978693623] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>[deleted]</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
[deleted] 02/06/24 4:01:56 PM #8:	[deleted] <cite>[deleted] posted [p:978693194] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>[deleted]</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
AceMos 02/06/24 5:18:22 PM #1:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6b3ae5ed.jpg --- 3 things 1. i am female 2. i havea msucle probelm its hard for me to typ well 3.does her janpuu dance <cite>AceMos posted [p:978693063] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6b3ae5ed.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LSGW_Zephyra 02/06/24 5:20:23 PM #2:	Alexander? Gay? Noooooo noooooo. Well maybe --- Bioshock gave us a fictional world showing why libertarianism doesn't work. Cryptos/NFTs gave us the real world example (She/Her) <cite>LSGW_Zephyra posted [p:978693100] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Alexander? Gay? Noooooo noooooo. Well maybe </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robot2600 02/06/24 5:20:32 PM #3:	he definitely prefered men. idk if he was bi, but he compared himself and his lover to achilles and patroclus. --- "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -- 1984 <cite>Robot2600 posted [p:978693107] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>he definitely prefered men. idk if he was bi, but he compared himself and his lover to achilles and patroclus. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
008Zulu 02/06/24 5:21:27 PM #4:	They must be so relieved to have something new to hate on, they almost had to examine their own lives! --- If you're not smart enough to survive, you are basically just food for something smarter. <cite>008Zulu posted [p:978693128] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>They must be so relieved to have something new to hate on, they almost had to examine their own lives! </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
haloiscoolisbak 02/06/24 5:21:40 PM #5:	Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the side It feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history --- Started from the bottom now we here <cite>haloiscoolisbak posted [p:978693131] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the sideIt feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
bigblu89 02/06/24 5:24:10 PM #6:	I mean, it's only suggested that he and Hephaestion, whom I assume this is depicting, had a homosexual relationship. --- It takes zero effort to be a good person. <cite>bigblu89 posted [p:978693175] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>I mean, it's only suggested that he and Hephaestion, whom I assume this is depicting, had a homosexual relationship. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Verdekal 02/06/24 5:24:22 PM #7:	It's their business model. Watch it or don't. --- Don't tease the octopus, kids! <cite>Verdekal posted [p:978693178] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>It's their business model. Watch it or don't. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LSGW_Zephyra 02/06/24 5:28:25 PM #9:	haloiscoolisbak posted... Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the side It feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history I can't remember the exact rules that generally governed homosexuality. Iirc as long as you were the older, active/dominant partner or the younger submissive/passive partner it was considered acceptable. That's not counting weird special status that you got to have if you were a priest of some sort which let you have other things. But as for the second? Fuck no. They were too patriarchal. Two women having sex was confusing and weird to them to the extent that they didn't even see it as sex and again, outside specific cults and priestess roles, fucking between women was dishonorable. Meanwhile in other civilizations they were like "You gay? Cool. You trans? You have magic powers" the Greeks were not great. Better then the Romans but I'm not sure that says much. --- Bioshock gave us a fictional world showing why libertarianism doesn't work. Cryptos/NFTs gave us the real world example (She/Her) <cite>LSGW_Zephyra posted [p:978693237] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>haloiscoolisbak posted... </cite><quote>Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the sideIt feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history</quote>I can't remember the exact rules that generally governed homosexuality. Iirc as long as you were the older, active/dominant partner or the younger submissive/passive partner it was considered acceptable. That's not counting weird special status that you got to have if you were a priest of some sort which let you have other things. But as for the second? Fuck no. They were too patriarchal. Two women having sex was confusing and weird to them to the extent that they didn't even see it as sex and again, outside specific cults and priestess roles, fucking between women was dishonorable. Meanwhile in other civilizations they were like "You gay? Cool. You trans? You have magic powers" the Greeks were not great. Better then the Romans but I'm not sure that says much. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DrizztLink 02/06/24 5:31:31 PM #11:	Alexander the Gayt --- He/Him http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/9846/images/slowpoke.gif https://i.imgur.com/M8h2ATe.png https://i.imgur.com/6ezFwG1.png <cite>DrizztLink posted [p:978693277] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Alexander the Gayt </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ClayGuida 02/06/24 5:32:14 PM #13:	Jesus is white to these same people. --- lolAmerica <cite>ClayGuida posted [p:978693294] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Jesus is white to these same people. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROBANN_88 02/06/24 5:33:46 PM #14:	haloiscoolisbak posted... Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the side It feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history IIRC, there was also some misogyny there. like i've heard the idea that some thought that women were good for procreation, but not much else so for deeper relations, they'd often prefer men --- Kremlin delenda est <cite>ROBANN_88 posted [p:978693318] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>haloiscoolisbak posted... </cite><quote>Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the sideIt feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history</quote>IIRC, there was also some misogyny there.like i've heard the idea that some thought that women were good for procreation, but not much else so for deeper relations, they'd often prefer men </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nocturnal_traveler 02/06/24 5:34:30 PM #15:	I thought it was common knowledge that Alexander was into men. --- --I understand your opinion. I just don't care about it. ~Jedah-- <cite>nocturnal_traveler posted [p:978693329] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>I thought it was common knowledge that Alexander was into men. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ai123 02/06/24 5:35:48 PM #16:	There's evidence to suggest he had relationships with men. There's evidence to suggest he had relationships with women (aside from his marriages). Who knows what his sexual orientation was or even if he would understand the concept in modern terms? It's a Netflix docudrama. The portrayal is legit on those terms, but the usuals will no doubt shed tears over it. --- 'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'. <cite>ai123 posted [p:978693347] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>There's evidence to suggest he had relationships with men. There's evidence to suggest he had relationships with women (aside from his marriages).Who knows what his sexual orientation was or even if he would understand the concept in modern terms?It's a Netflix docudrama. The portrayal is legit on those terms, but the usuals will no doubt shed tears over it. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
IMNOTRAGED 02/06/24 5:36:18 PM #17:	https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1754992602741461270 --- DEBO ERA "Be ruthless with systems; be kind to people." <cite>IMNOTRAGED posted [p:978693350] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>https://twitter.com/shaun_vids/status/1754992602741461270 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROBANN_88 02/06/24 5:36:52 PM #18:	LSGW_Zephyra posted... Iirc as long as you were the older, active/dominant partner or the younger submissive/passive partner it was considered acceptable. i think you're confusing it with Rome. i know Rome had that outlook, and Greece was way gayer than them --- Kremlin delenda est <cite>ROBANN_88 posted [p:978693359] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>LSGW_Zephyra posted... </cite><quote>Iirc as long as you were the older, active/dominant partner or the younger submissive/passive partner it was considered acceptable.</quote>i think you're confusing it with Rome.i know Rome had that outlook, and Greece was way gayer than them </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Mistere_Man 02/06/24 5:38:35 PM #20:	The Greeks were ok with most everything even furry and bestiality. I mean Zeus was always turning into animals and getting women pregnant, and lots of half human animals mating with humans. --- Water+Fall=Radiation. <cite>Mistere_Man posted [p:978693388] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>The Greeks were ok with most everything even furry and bestiality. I mean Zeus was always turning into animals and getting women pregnant, and lots of half human animals mating with humans. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PurpleOutsider 02/06/24 5:38:45 PM #21:	ROBANN_88 posted... IIRC, there was also some misogyny there. like i've heard the idea that some thought that women were good for procreation, but not much else so for deeper relations, they'd often prefer men I've read the same thing. --- Your knowledge of scientific biological transmogrification is only outmatched by your zest for kung-fu treachery! <cite>PurpleOutsider posted [p:978693393] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>ROBANN_88 posted... </cite><quote>IIRC, there was also some misogyny there.like i've heard the idea that some thought that women were good for procreation, but not much else so for deeper relations, they'd often prefer men</quote>I've read the same thing. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robot2600 02/06/24 5:39:30 PM #22:	haloiscoolisbak posted... Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the side It feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history no. even in ancient greece there was rampant homophobia with a huge stigma around being penetrated. it's more complicated because "ancient greece" is a period of like 700 years and, generally, they seem to become more homophobic as time goes on. man-boy "relationships" become institutionalized, but not everyone was going to do that. the normal spectrum of human sexuality is always present. Gay men lived together as partners, but there was, again, the taboo against actually being the "submissive" one in the relationship so they didn't talk about it. ancient greeks didn't have words for sexual orientation and didn't think of it as an inherent part of your personality--it was more about what you did. it was expected that most people would have sex with men and women throughout the course of their lives. they did have the idea that people preferred a gender over the other (gender is nonbinary): plato talks about this: man-seeking-man souls, man-seeking-woman souls, etc. But to their minds, everyone has the potential to have sex with a man or woman, if their fancy strikes them to do so. legally, in athens, you couldn't rape a slave, although im sure some did that. brothels with men and/or women were common, so it was expected that you go to a brothel. so much as hitting a slave would mean exile, even a slave you owned. i guess you could have sex with your slave provided the slave said it was consensual. edit: it's important to remember that the biology of sexuality hasnt changed. there were bi, straight, and gay people in ancient greece. bisexuality was more acceptable, and seen as the norm, which probably encouraged people who would call themselves "straight" today to experiment and be open about it. in other ways greece becomes increasingly the product of hyper-masculinity. it's not sex with a man that's the problem: it's being an effeminate gay man that disgusts the Athenian sensibilities. --- "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -- 1984 <cite>Robot2600 posted [p:978693399] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>haloiscoolisbak posted... </cite><quote>Didn't like every Greek have some slave boy they fucked on the sideIt feels like homosexuality was more accepted in that era than in any other in history</quote>no. even in ancient greece there was rampant homophobia with a huge stigma around being penetrated.it's more complicated because "ancient greece" is a period of like 700 years and, generally, they seem to become more homophobic as time goes on.man-boy "relationships" become institutionalized, but not everyone was going to do that. the normal spectrum of human sexuality is always present. Gay men lived together as partners, but there was, again, the taboo against actually being the "submissive" one in the relationship so they didn't talk about it.ancient greeks didn't have words for sexual orientation and didn't think of it as an inherent part of your personality--it was more about what you did. it was expected that most people would have sex with men and women throughout the course of their lives. they did have the idea that people preferred a gender over the other (gender is nonbinary): plato talks about this: man-seeking-man souls, man-seeking-woman souls, etc. But to their minds, everyone has the potential to have sex with a man or woman, if their fancy strikes them to do so.legally, in athens, you couldn't rape a slave, although im sure some did that. brothels with men and/or women were common, so it was expected that you go to a brothel. so much as hitting a slave would mean exile, even a slave you owned. i guess you could have sex with your slave provided the slave said it was consensual. edit: it's important to remember that the biology of sexuality hasnt changed. there were bi, straight, and gay people in ancient greece. bisexuality was more acceptable, and seen as the norm, which probably encouraged people who would call themselves "straight" today to experiment and be open about it.in other ways greece becomes increasingly the product of hyper-masculinity. it's not sex with a man that's the problem: it's being an effeminate gay man that disgusts the Athenian sensibilities. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 02/06/24 5:41:07 PM #23:	If history is "woke" then they are against history. --- "Intelligence has no place in Politics" Londo, (Babylon Five) Best new show of 2023, One Piece live action. <cite>creativerealms posted [p:978693422] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>If history is "woke" then they are against history. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
solosnake 02/06/24 5:46:49 PM #24:	Lol, people acting like its hard fact. Its always just been speculation. There is no basis on historical documents that has anything definitive. The only thing we know for sure is he had multiple wives, and took concubines and had children. --- "We would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping." ~ Dwyane Wade <cite>solosnake posted [p:978693526] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Lol, people acting like its hard fact. Its always just been speculation. There is no basis on historical documents that has anything definitive. The only thing we know for sure is he had multiple wives, and took concubines and had children. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robot2600 02/06/24 5:49:15 PM #25:	solosnake posted... Lol, people acting like its hard fact. Its always just been speculation. There is no basis on historical documents that has anything definitive. The only thing we know for sure is he had multiple wives, and took concubines and had children. this is just fiction. http://ancientheroes.net/blog/alexander-personal-life Alexander appears to have been sexually intimate with at least one man, a young Persian dancer named Bagoas. Apparently, Bagoas was given to Alexander as a gift by one of the Persian king Darius' commanders. *Multiple ancient sources, including Plutarch and Curtius, reference Alexander's desire for Bagoas.* --- "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -- 1984 <cite>Robot2600 posted [p:978693571] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>solosnake posted... </cite><quote>Lol, people acting like its hard fact. Its always just been speculation. There is no basis on historical documents that has anything definitive. The only thing we know for sure is he had multiple wives, and took concubines and had children.</quote>this is just fiction.http://ancientheroes.net/blog/alexander-personal-lifeAlexander appears to have been sexually intimate with at least one man, a young Persian dancer named Bagoas. Apparently, Bagoas was given to Alexander as a gift by one of the Persian king Darius' commanders. Multiple ancient sources, including Plutarch and Curtius, reference Alexander's desire for Bagoas. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
solosnake 02/06/24 5:49:56 PM #26:	lol, nice source, some random blog on the internet. Anyway, it doesnt really matter. Its a fanfic about Alexander, they can do whatever they want --- "We would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping." ~ Dwyane Wade <cite>solosnake posted [p:978693584] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>lol, nice source, some random blog on the internet. Anyway, it doesnt really matter. Its a fanfic about Alexander, they can do whatever they want </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROBANN_88 02/06/24 5:54:09 PM #28:	the debate is whether or not he was Gay, which isn't conclusive, partly cause i beleive they didn't really make the distinction the same way we do now. but it's pretty common knowledge that he had romantic relations with men --- Kremlin delenda est <cite>ROBANN_88 posted [p:978693653] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>the debate is whether or not he was Gay, which isn't conclusive, partly cause i beleive they didn't really make the distinction the same way we do now.but it's pretty common knowledge that he had romantic relations with men </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Heineken14 02/06/24 5:55:59 PM #29:	https://imgur.com/2ke4X9v.jpeg --- Rage is a hell of an anesthetic. <cite>Heineken14 posted [p:978693686] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>https://imgur.com/2ke4X9v.jpeg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Robot2600 02/06/24 5:56:36 PM #30:	that random blog post at least cites sources. so what if it's a random blog? it's citing both things like Plutarch as well as modern publications coming out of University of California system. --- "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -- 1984 <cite>Robot2600 posted [p:978693694] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>that random blog post at least cites sources. so what if it's a random blog? it's citing both things like Plutarch as well as modern publications coming out of University of California system. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
solosnake 02/06/24 5:56:58 PM #31:	Robot2600 posted... Multiple ancient sources, including Plutarch and Curtius, reference Alexander's desire for Bagoas. Do you realize those two were born hundreds of years after Alexander died? --- "We would have no NBA possibly if they got rid of all the flopping." ~ Dwyane Wade <cite>solosnake posted [p:978693705] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Robot2600 posted... </cite><quote>Multiple ancient sources, including Plutarch and Curtius, reference Alexander's desire for Bagoas.</quote>Do you realize those two were born hundreds of years after Alexander died? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 02/06/24 6:02:51 PM #32:	solosnake posted... Lol, people acting like its hard fact. Its always just been speculation. There is no basis on historical documents that has anything definitive. The only thing we know for sure is he had multiple wives, and took concubines and had children. Yet because it's also not hard False it's fine to depict in historical fiction. --- "Intelligence has no place in Politics" Londo, (Babylon Five) Best new show of 2023, One Piece live action. <cite>creativerealms posted [p:978693783] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>solosnake posted... </cite><quote>Lol, people acting like its hard fact. Its always just been speculation. There is no basis on historical documents that has anything definitive. The only thing we know for sure is he had multiple wives, and took concubines and had children.</quote>Yet because it's also not hard False it's fine to depict in historical fiction. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Ivynn 02/06/24 6:03:11 PM #33:	Alexander the Great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8vzIRQLLM --- http://i.imgur.com/vDci4hD.gif <cite>Ivynn posted [p:978693786] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Alexander the Great:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zd8vzIRQLLM </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HashtagSEP 02/06/24 6:03:45 PM #34:	solosnake posted... Do you realize those two were born hundreds of years after Alexander died? You seem very bothered by this. Why? --- #SEP #Awesome #Excellent #Greatness #SteveNash #VitaminWater #SmellingLikeTheVault #Pigeon #Sexy #ActuallyAVeryIntelligentVelociraptor #Heel #CoolSpot #EndOfSig <cite>HashtagSEP posted [p:978693795] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>solosnake posted... </cite><quote>Do you realize those two were born hundreds of years after Alexander died?</quote>You seem very bothered by this. Why? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ai123 02/06/24 6:06:24 PM #35:	creativerealms posted... Yet because it's also not hard False it's fine to depict in historical fiction. Yes. It's not hard historical fact, but it's close enough for a Netflix docudrama. --- 'Vinyl is the poor man's art collection'. <cite>ai123 posted [p:978693830] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>creativerealms posted... </cite><quote>Yet because it's also not hard False it's fine to depict in historical fiction.</quote>Yes.It's not hard historical fact, but it's close enough for a Netflix docudrama. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ROBANN_88 02/06/24 6:08:06 PM #36:	solosnake posted... Do you realize those two were born hundreds of years after Alexander died? they all are. sure, one can question sources and they shouldn't be trusted complicitly, but if you throw out every source cause their timeframe, and then end up with nothing else left, then what's even point of having history at all? --- Kremlin delenda est <cite>ROBANN_88 posted [p:978693863] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>solosnake posted... </cite><quote>Do you realize those two were born hundreds of years after Alexander died?</quote>they all are.sure, one can question sources and they shouldn't be trusted complicitly, but if you throw out every source cause their timeframe, and then end up with nothing else left, then what's even point of having history at all? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Returning_CEmen 02/06/24 6:09:34 PM #37:	ClayGuida posted... Jesus is white to these same people. --- Genius, Thousandaire, Playboy, Philanthropist <cite>Returning_CEmen posted [p:978693891] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>ClayGuida posted... </cite><quote>Jesus is white to these same people.</quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Antiyonder 02/06/24 6:09:34 PM #38:	AceMos posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6b3ae5ed.jpg I mean even though Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon always had a rainbow on the logo, many just only noticed it this decade and accused Pink Floyd of turning Woke. --- Amalgam Universe resident Born in 82. <cite>Antiyonder posted [p:978693892] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>AceMos posted... </cite><quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6b3ae5ed.jpg</quote>I mean even though Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon always had a rainbow on the logo, many just only noticed it this decade and accused Pink Floyd of turning Woke. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
creativerealms 02/06/24 6:15:09 PM #39:	The anti-woke movement needs outrage, a steady flow of outrage. If they don't have it, the content creators lose interests and instead are drawn to things they actually like and want to talk about those things instead. They also need new sources of Outrage, as a show, movie or comic they freak out over doesn't have as much mileage as it once had. They don't have a new Brie Larson or The Last Jedi and even reviving those doesn't have the milage it once had. So they are looking for something new. Last year Cleopatra was a new outrage fuel source, now they could go after "the left" for trying to make history woke. And that was a success because Cleopatra actually was bad. So now they are trying to restart that source of outrage with this Alexander documentary. The grift continues. --- "Intelligence has no place in Politics" Londo, (Babylon Five) Best new show of 2023, One Piece live action. <cite>creativerealms posted [p:978693980] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>The anti-woke movement needs outrage, a steady flow of outrage. If they don't have it, the content creators lose interests and instead are drawn to things they actually like and want to talk about those things instead. They also need new sources of Outrage, as a show, movie or comic they freak out over doesn't have as much mileage as it once had. They don't have a new Brie Larson or The Last Jedi and even reviving those doesn't have the milage it once had.So they are looking for something new. Last year Cleopatra was a new outrage fuel source, now they could go after "the left" for trying to make history woke. And that was a success because Cleopatra actually was bad. So now they are trying to restart that source of outrage with this Alexander documentary.The grift continues. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mercurydude 02/06/24 6:23:41 PM #40:	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_7FYr4JsF0 --- God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes, 'cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose. - Everlast <cite>mercurydude posted [p:978694126] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_7FYr4JsF0 </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
LSGW_Zephyra 02/06/24 6:35:37 PM #41:	ROBANN_88 posted... i think you're confusing it with Rome. i know Rome had that outlook, and Greece was way gayer than them Noooooo Rome was much stricter. If you were the submissive/passive partner at all, that was bad regardless of your age. With maybe, maaaaaaybe the exception being young boys. Emphasis on young and boy. And even then... well, they still would mock the shit out of you. --- Bioshock gave us a fictional world showing why libertarianism doesn't work. Cryptos/NFTs gave us the real world example (She/Her) <cite>LSGW_Zephyra posted [p:978694321] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>ROBANN_88 posted... </cite><quote>i think you're confusing it with Rome.i know Rome had that outlook, and Greece was way gayer than them</quote>Noooooo Rome was much stricter. If you were the submissive/passive partner at all, that was bad regardless of your age. With maybe, maaaaaaybe the exception being young boys. Emphasis on young and boy. And even then... well, they still would mock the shit out of you. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HannibalBarca3 02/06/24 6:38:21 PM #42:	I'm going to repost a post I made in another dead thread: As I said on my original post what survived to us in the modern-day stems from the upper crust of society, what the Hellenes referred to as the "leisure class". These were leisured gentlemen who didn't have to work for a living instead relying on the blood and sweat of enslaved people to maintain their lifestyle, ideally, they would use this free time to better themselves for the defense and management of their communities. Reading them and believing they represent the general opinion of people back than is like people 2,000 years into the future believing Elon Musk represents the opinion of modern people. Sadly we can't really assume to much on how the average person felt about these types of relationships. We have to put it in context, pederasty was an aristocratic institution which is the class writers belonged to so it can make it seem like it was more common than it actually was. These relationship were arranged by families and involved eromenos, young boys, starting from the age of 12 to the age of 17 and erastes, older men. This is what the Roman era poet Straton of Sardis writes: I delight in the prime of a boy of twelve, but one of thirteen is much more desirable. He who is fourteen is a still sweeter flower of the Loves, and one who is just beginning his fifteenth year is yet more delightful. The sixteenth year is that of the gods, and as for the seventeenth it is not for me, but for Zeus, to seek it. But if one has a desire for those still older, he no longer plays, but now seeks And answering him back. And it appear that these types of relationships to continue past the age of 17 were looked down upon, as well as having relationship with a boy below the age of 12, from Straton: That an immature boy should do despite to his insensible age carries more disgrace to the friend who tempts him than to himself, and for a grown-up youth to submit to sodomy, his season for which is past, is twice as disgraceful to him who consents as it is to his tempter. But there is a time, Moiris, when it is no longer unseemly in the one, and not yet so in the other, as is the case with you and me at present. These mentor relationships had a sexual component to them that involved the sexual abuse of children, according to Xenophon the Athenian who sent his own sons through the agoge this wasn't happening in Sparta, and ideally involved intercrural sex rather than penetration. These types of relationships were also meant to end once the eromenos reached the age of 17, and as seen by what Straton wrote and the case of Pausanias and Agathon it was looked down if they persisted. These men were also expected to marry and have children of their own as well. And as I posted above the act of penetration was seen as shameful for a man because it was perceived that it put him in the role of a woman. It's not really progressivism, our modern perception of what is "gay" doesn't neatly map into the past. A man could engage in homosexual sex as long as he wasn't the one being submissive with an enslaved man or a prostitute while also being married to a woman and having children of his own, this was not perceived as being either "gay" nor "bisexual". Likewise relationships between men were acceptable to an extend. Some additional notes, the abuse and rape of children wasn't just limited to boys but also girls since girls around the same age range of boys would be forced to marry men usually in their 30s. Macedonian kings, much like neighboring Illyrian and Thracian kings, practiced polygamy while the Greeks did not. --- Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010) <cite>HannibalBarca3 posted [p:978694360] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>I'm going to repost a post I made in another dead thread:As I said on my original post what survived to us in the modern-day stems from the upper crust of society, what the Hellenes referred to as the "leisure class". These were leisured gentlemen who didn't have to work for a living instead relying on the blood and sweat of enslaved people to maintain their lifestyle, ideally, they would use this free time to better themselves for the defense and management of their communities. Reading them and believing they represent the general opinion of people back than is like people 2,000 years into the future believing Elon Musk represents the opinion of modern people. Sadly we can't really assume to much on how the average person felt about these types of relationships.We have to put it in context, pederasty was an aristocratic institution which is the class writers belonged to so it can make it seem like it was more common than it actually was. These relationship were arranged by families and involved eromenos, young boys, starting from the age of 12 to the age of 17 and erastes, older men. This is what the Roman era poet Straton of Sardis writes:<quote>I delight in the prime of a boy of twelve, but one of thirteen is much more desirable. He who is fourteen is a still sweeter flower of the Loves, and one who is just beginning his fifteenth year is yet more delightful. The sixteenth year is that of the gods, and as for the seventeenth it is not for me, but for Zeus, to seek it. But if one has a desire for those still older, he no longer plays, but now seeks And answering him back.</quote>And it appear that these types of relationships to continue past the age of 17 were looked down upon, as well as having relationship with a boy below the age of 12, from Straton:<quote>That an immature boy should do despite to his insensible age carries more disgrace to the friend who tempts him than to himself, and for a grown-up youth to submit to sodomy, his season for which is past, is twice as disgraceful to him who consents as it is to his tempter. But there is a time, Moiris, when it is no longer unseemly in the one, and not yet so in the other, as is the case with you and me at present.</quote>These mentor relationships had a sexual component to them that involved the sexual abuse of children, according to Xenophon the Athenian who sent his own sons through the agoge this wasn't happening in Sparta, and ideally involved intercrural sex rather than penetration. These types of relationships were also meant to end once the eromenos reached the age of 17, and as seen by what Straton wrote and the case of Pausanias and Agathon it was looked down if they persisted.These men were also expected to marry and have children of their own as well. And as I posted above the act of penetration was seen as shameful for a man because it was perceived that it put him in the role of a woman. It's not really progressivism, our modern perception of what is "gay" doesn't neatly map into the past. A man could engage in homosexual sex as long as he wasn't the one being submissive with an enslaved man or a prostitute while also being married to a woman and having children of his own, this was not perceived as being either "gay" nor "bisexual". Likewise relationships between men were acceptable to an extend.Some additional notes, the abuse and rape of children wasn't just limited to boys but also girls since girls around the same age range of boys would be forced to marry men usually in their 30s. Macedonian kings, much like neighboring Illyrian and Thracian kings, practiced polygamy while the Greeks did not. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Robot2600 02/06/24 6:47:25 PM #45:	LSGW_Zephyra posted... Noooooo Rome was much stricter. If you were the submissive/passive partner at all, that was bad regardless of your age. With maybe, maaaaaaybe the exception being young boys. Emphasis on young and boy. And even then... well, they still would mock the shit out of you. yes athens is like this also. notably, we don't see these concepts in homer (750 bc) but they are entrenched soon afterwards. presumably this was not part of mycenean culture and it wasn't the focus in 8th Century BC. by 4th century they are often concerned with if a man is getting fucked. again, just b/c the dominate culture (rich, greek, men) wrote this stuff down doesn't mean that the same spectrum of sexuality didn't exist back then. in general, ancient greece had more accepting views on sexuality than mainstream america, but they were not as progressive as modern france. --- "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -- 1984 <cite>Robot2600 posted [p:978694514] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>LSGW_Zephyra posted... </cite><quote>Noooooo Rome was much stricter. If you were the submissive/passive partner at all, that was bad regardless of your age. With maybe, maaaaaaybe the exception being young boys. Emphasis on young and boy. And even then... well, they still would mock the shit out of you.</quote>yes athens is like this also.notably, we don't see these concepts in homer (750 bc) but they are entrenched soon afterwards.presumably this was not part of mycenean culture and it wasn't the focus in 8th Century BC. by 4th century they are often concerned with if a man is getting fucked.again, just b/c the dominate culture (rich, greek, men) wrote this stuff down doesn't mean that the same spectrum of sexuality didn't exist back then. in general, ancient greece had more accepting views on sexuality than mainstream america, but they were not as progressive as modern france. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
HannibalBarca3 02/06/24 7:01:16 PM #46:	LSGW_Zephyra posted... Noooooo Rome was much stricter. If you were the submissive/passive partner at all, that was bad regardless of your age. With maybe, maaaaaaybe the exception being young boys. Emphasis on young and boy. And even then... well, they still would mock the shit out of you. Well, in the context of Ancient Greece there wasn't suppose to be any penetration going on even in pederastic relationship between an aristocratic man and boy. Ideally, and this should be stressed that it's ideal, there would be thigh fucking and no penetration involved but we shouldn't be naive about it. Xenophon, famed Athenian writer, survivor of the march of the men of kyros the younger and leader, was pretty adamant that there was no sexual acts going on in Sparta since he sent his own sons thought the agoge, but, again, it's very likely that wasn't really the case. --- Aut viam inveniam aut faciam. Will not change sig until the Tsar is put back in the Russian throne (July 08, 2010) <cite>HannibalBarca3 posted [p:978694857] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>LSGW_Zephyra posted... </cite><quote>Noooooo Rome was much stricter. If you were the submissive/passive partner at all, that was bad regardless of your age. With maybe, maaaaaaybe the exception being young boys. Emphasis on young and boy. And even then... well, they still would mock the shit out of you.</quote>Well, in the context of Ancient Greece there wasn't suppose to be any penetration going on even in pederastic relationship between an aristocratic man and boy. Ideally, and this should be stressed that it's ideal, there would be thigh fucking and no penetration involved but we shouldn't be naive about it. Xenophon, famed Athenian writer, survivor of the march of the men of kyros the younger and leader, was pretty adamant that there was no sexual acts going on in Sparta since he sent his own sons thought the agoge, but, again, it's very likely that wasn't really the case. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
FinalBraveNUT 02/06/24 7:07:25 PM #47:	Wasn't napoleon a bit curious himself? I thought one of em carried a Jar with a penis in it --- FFBE friend ID 958,168,629 Rank 156 <cite>FinalBraveNUT posted [p:978695029] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>Wasn't napoleon a bit curious himself? I thought one of em carried a Jar with a penis in it </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
name_unknown 02/07/24 12:46:48 AM #48:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a74e407.jpg you see what he was wearing into battle? <cite>name_unknown posted [p:978700678] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a74e407.jpgyou see what he was wearing into battle?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
nocturnal_traveler 02/07/24 1:43:03 AM #49:	name_unknown posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a74e407.jpg you see what he was wearing into battle? Someone other than me actually remembers that show. --- --I understand your opinion. I just don't care about it. ~Jedah-- <cite>nocturnal_traveler posted [p:978701292] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>name_unknown posted... </cite><quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a74e407.jpgyou see what he was wearing into battle?</quote>Someone other than me actually remembers that show. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BlueKat 02/07/24 1:50:17 AM #50:	name_unknown posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a74e407.jpg you see what he was wearing into battle? Was this done by the peeps who did Aeon Flux? --- There is no good. There is no evil. There just is. <cite>BlueKat posted [p:978701338] in people ups... [t:80689819]...</cite> <quote>name_unknown posted... </cite><quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a74e407.jpgyou see what he was wearing into battle?</quote>Was this done by the peeps who did Aeon Flux? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Current Events > people upset at historical accuracy now