Current Events > the batman fanwank over suicide squad really misses the point

(+) Yeah! (+)

Doom_Art posted...

They are fictional characters and people have seriously weird attachment issues with this kind of stuff.

Like when writers make a decision for a story/character that sucks people take it WAAAAY too seriously

Maybe, but frankly it doesnt matter. Thats just the way people are and developers have to take such things into consideration before making and trying to sell such products to the fans them.

Or else on top of a bad/mediocre game you spark a lot more ill will towards you beyond just the games lack of quality.

It doesnt matter. If they continue the story theyll bring him back, and the entire League. It doesnt matter.

Gurifisu posted...

It's not that deep. The game sucks for plenty of other reasons. Hating on it simply because they killed your favorite character is borderline childish.

You're literally the only one claiming people are doing that.

Doom_Art posted...

They are fictional characters and people have seriously weird attachment issues with this kind of stuff.

Flashy gimmicks will get people to give the first volume a chance. Emotional connections are what bring them back for the fourth.

If I'm watching a movie, and I don't care if a character lives or dies, it means I'd rather be watching something else.

my guess is this game will fail to be commercially successful and the studio will pretend it never existed

Prismsblade posted...

Fans arent alright killing their favorite characters, period. It doesnt matter that it takes place in an alternate universe. These are still our heroes in every way,

None of that precludes why they shouldn't be allowed to die

Aside from that Im more disappointed at what a waste this game was. The first AAA to feature the league

Because these movies outsold the league lol. The league hasn't been relevant in 20 years, thanks to WB incompetence. Don't blame rocksteady for that.

These generic dozen hour games with repetitive gameplay, and overall low thought and effort put into them arent worth $70 freaking dollars. Hell most games arent nowadays.

The graphics alone are the reason you're paying that much and they are actually selling at a loss. Game prices haven't changed much in 30 years.

AceMos posted...

https://twitter.com/TheNerdSpider/status/1753941548608143771

seriously batman being mind controlled is not the problem hell him being killed is not the problem

its entirely the specific incarnation they killed

AceMos posted...

no im saying dont kill off this incarnation of batman in such a pathetic way in a story not about him

DarthAragorn posted...

So just make it its own story and not a shitty tacked on sequel to the Arkham series?

FortuneCookie posted...

No, no. I'm calling that the Star Wars Rule. Or the He-Man Rule. Take your pick.

It's absolutely a reason to say fuck this show/game/book/etc.

@dave_is_slick

I am not saying what I'm saying for no reason. You can check the other topics about it, comments on YouTube videos for it, etc.

It's all the same thing. Whining about how Rocksteady killed their beloved batman and that it's disrespectful to the character, the VA, and totally unrealistic.

Prismsblade posted...

Maybe, but frankly it doesnt matter. Thats just the way people are and developers have to take such things into consideration

Lol no. Thats not how art works.

No dev, no director, no writer has ever abiding by this and made anything of note. They will all tell you the same thing.

Imagine if Kojima applied this logic with MG2

Toonstrack posted...

None of that precludes why they shouldn't be allowed to die

You can kill beloved characters just not cheese their deaths. Basically epic battles where it feels earned.
Else you piss off fans.

Some heroes should die. But, almost invariably, they should receive a John Wayne death if they do.

That's where the character is mortally wounded in ambush, but gets the bad guys before they go. That's when a character temporarily survives a losing battle and dies surrounded by friends who mourn them. That's where a character safely makes it off of a sinking ship, but dives back into the water after hearing that a child is still below deck. They hand the child off to the rescue team, but get their foot trapped in the process. They say their meaningful last goodbyes just before the water covers their face and seals their fate.

If you have the hero chasing a bad guy across the street, only to have them inadvertently run over by oncoming traffic, you'd better be intentionally aiming to piss the audience off. And you'd better be financially secure because another opportunity might not be in your immediate future.

Note to mods: Those are not spoilers for any John Wayne movies or any specific movie. I was using the term "John Wayne death" to refer to the hero character receiving all pomp and circumstances upon their death.

WingsOfGood posted...

You can kill beloved characters just not cheese their deaths. Basically epic battles where it feels earned.

Thats not realistic writing. Applying some protective status to a character simply because people like him is the definition of pandering; plot armor, all sorts of things we generally view negatively.

Its a notion that completely defies verisimilitude, and from the perspective this game takes(that being of the bad guys) it makes little sense to take that route.

Besides isnt there an actual tribute towards the games end aside from the in story stuff?

I'm gonna be honest. The game is called suicide squad kills the justice league

I expect every league member to be dead when it's all said and done.

As for batmans death and I do love batman. I think it's fitting. He has accomplished many things that shouldn't have been possible for him. This is a reminder he's just a man in a costume and some gadgets.

Toonstrack posted...

None of that precludes why they shouldn't be allowed to die

I never said they shouldnt die, just that fans wouldnt like it. Or at least the way rocksteady handled them.

Because these movies outsold the league lol. The league hasn't been relevant in 20 years, thanks to WB incompetence. Don't blame rocksteady for that.

Are you implying the SS is more popular than the justice league? I doubt that.

The graphics alone are the reason you're paying that much and they are actually selling at a loss. Game prices haven't changed much in 30 years.

Graphics have been stagnant for years now so thats a load of BS. They should have focused more on making games worth the money still rather then trying to make more off gamers for less effort on their end.

Toonstrack posted...

Lol no. Thats not how art works.

No dev, no director, no writer has ever abiding by this and made anything of note. They will all tell you the same thing.

Imagine if Kojima applied this logic with MG2

MCU gave audiences what they wanted. Synder did the opposite with the DCUE and it shows.

Toonstrack posted...

Thats not realistic writing. Applying some protective status to a character simply because people like him is the definition of pandering; plot armor, all sorts of things we generally view negatively.

Batman is plot armor personified. Why shouldn't he call upon it when it's his time to die?

He's the world's greatest martial artist -- mastering 127 styles -- because he had money and time to train. He's the world's greatest detective because he had money and time to train. He's the world's greatest costume designer because he had money and time to train. He's the world's greatest driver and pilot because he had money and time to train. He's the world's greatest inventor of gadgets because he had money and time to train. He possesses an encyclopedic/photographic memory of virtually all documented human knowledge because he had money and time to train. He can take robots, demons, aliens, beings with superhuman strength, and sometimes even gods in combat because he had money and time to train.

No super powers though. It's all money and training. Dude trained 744 hours a day since he was a youth. It could have been anybody in his position. We just didn't have enough time or money.

FortuneCookie posted...

Some heroes should die. But, almost invariably, they should receive a John Wayne death if they do.

That's where the character is mortally wounded in ambush, but gets the bad guys before they go. That's when a character temporarily survives a losing battle and dies surrounded by friends who mourn them. That's where a character safely makes it off of a sinking ship, but dives back into the water after hearing that a child is still below deck. They hand the child off to the rescue team, but get their foot trapped in the process. They say their meaningful last goodbyes just before the water covers their face and seals their fate.

If you have the hero chasing a bad guy across the street, only to have them inadvertently run over by oncoming traffic, you'd better be intentionally aiming to piss the audience off.

Thats an emotional standpoint, not a logical one. Like I said before it begs for the story and world to bend itself over backwards fellating this character rather than being realistic and, as things happen, having characters die because they already in a situation they can and maybe should die in lol.

Theres a balancing act there. You want an audience to feel like their emotional investment pays off but if the character survives too much just because its the main character it completely takes the audience out of the story.

Theres also the fact that death, in writing is generally intended to upset the audience anyway, if its a sympathetic character. But from the perspective of the villains, that is obviously going to gave to be subverted or else the writers aren't committing to the premise here.

Like..... why didn't people getthis upset at spiderverse, which has Peter Parker get killed unceremoniously and violently by kingpin of all people? Theres no grandiose ending, no final hurrah, no speech, he just gets badly injured by a 20 ton machine falling on him and then just gets his body crushed in one fell swoop. That is a brilliant way to make it clear how dangerous what the character has been doing is, that any night could have been his last. I dare to say it would take away from the movie if they tried to do it some other way.

Probably because we had seen that Peter Parker for like 2 minutes at that point

Uncle Ben lives longer than that

This is my Batman. There are many like him, but this one is mine. My Batman is my best friend. He is my life. I must master him as I must master my life.

DarthAragorn posted...

Probably because we had seen that Peter Parker for like 2 minutes at that point

Uncle Ben lives longer than that

I can't see who you're responding to, but given this context I'm assuming a false equivalence to Spiderverse is made where Peter Parker as Spiderman basically died as he lived just after near literally passing the torch of his own volition.

Toonstrack posted...

Thats an emotional standpoint, not a logical one. Like I said before it begs for the story and world to bend itself over backwards fellating this character rather than being realistic and, as things happen, having characters die because they already in a situation they can and maybe should die in lol.

If you want to talk about realism, there's no such thing as a superhero. Especially a "human superhero."

Could a unicorn heal wounds by touching them with its horn? Could they breathe fire? Could a unicorn live for centuries and never age? Maybe, maybe not. It depends on whatever rules you establish because a unicorn does not exist. Humans exist and their limitations are well-defined. If you're an expert boxer and an okay painter, people are impressed because you're multitalented. Batman's an ace at everything he does. That's not realistic.

The story bends itself time and again so that he always wins, always has a card up his sleeve, always has some prior knowledge that'll get him out of even the worst of situations. Why should that abandon him in his time of death? Why should a human who has punched out robots get shot in the back by a pickpocket that he didn't see hiding in the corner because it's realistic for a hero to die in an anticlimactic or underwhelming manner?

The Coen Brothers could probably make that death work. Christopher Nolan might be able to make that work. Quentin Tarantino could have people swearing it was the greatest moment in superhero cinema. For most people writing or directing a scene of that nature, that would be a major letdown.

Every scene is hand chosen. None of this is real life. None of it is plugged into a simulation. You can't feed a dozen Batman stories to a supercomputer and ask AI, "When and how would Batman logically be killed if this were real?" I'd give Batman two weeks tops before they traced him back to stately Wayne Manor. Security cameras, police radar, extensive searches on who would have the resources and motivation to become Batman.

It's all pretend. So why not give the audience something that is emotionally satisfying?

DarthAragorn posted...

Probably because we had seen that Peter Parker for like 2 minutes at that point

Uncle Ben lives longer than that

Its Peter Parker. Everyone knows Peter parker going in, the writers knew that and intended us to be in a way familiar with him. Its literally so clearly a Peter Parker we know that they applied to him feats that other Peter parkers from other media went through such as the raimi films. Hes supposed to he a Peter we know, a general Peter spider man anyone could easily attach to doing Peter Parker spider man things. So no, I dont think thats gonna fly.