Current Events > What do you think is "wrong" with data that says the economy is good?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Why do people generally think they are better off financially in 2019 than they are today?
Someone could show you data showing that wage growth has outpaced inflation over the past few years, or that median wealth has increased, but why would you think it's wrong?

Because it's "good" for those who are already stupidly wealthy, not for the middle class.

Have you gone shopping for groceries? Shits expensive and pay isn't rising enough to offset it

The data doesn't need to be "wrong," it just isn't relevant for most Americans.

Because a democrat is currently president and we believe them to not be good for the economy.

WilliamPorygon posted...

Because it's "good" for those who are already stupidly wealthy, not for the middle class.

Who are the middle class?

Kaldrenthebold posted...

Shits expensive and pay isn't rising enough to offset it

UnholyMudcrab posted...

The data doesn't need to be "wrong," it just isn't relevant for most Americans.

And if data shows that low income wage growth has outpaced inflation?

The majority of Americans own houses, which also accounts for the increase in median net worth.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Most people?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



What would actually being better off mean to you then?

I don't know the what but I know the why. Turns out you can't pause the global economy for a period of time without delayed, longstanding repercussions.

The data favors the rich.

shiby_with_it posted...

I don't know the what but I know the why. Turns out you can't pause the global economy for a period of time without delayed, longstanding repercussions.

Also turns out you can't keep cutting taxes on the rich and expect trickle down economics to help anyone but the rich.

creativerealms posted...

Also turns out you can't keep cutting taxes on the rich and expect trickle down economics to help anyone but the rich.

Yeah that's pretty fucking dumb too

emblem-man posted...

And if data shows that low income wage growth has outpaced inflation?

It doesn't

Wage growth has been fucking miserable for decades

Can I buy a house?

No, no I can't.

emblem-man posted...

Someone could show you data showing that wage growth has outpaced inflation over the past few years

Link?

Squall28 posted...

Link?

No, not me.

Rich became richer, so the "economy" is good.

When you poll the lower class though, things aren't so great.

Thing is though, this isn't about who's president (Though Republicans have historically shat the bed when it comes to financial issues), it's about unregulated capitalism about to burst.

You can't have record profits every year. Especially when said profits requires layoffs and inflation on basic goods. Something is going to give.

emblem-man posted...

wage growth has outpaced inflation over the past few years, or that median wealth has increased, but why would you think it's wrong?

My salary has increased 25% since the very beginning of the pandemic. The estimated cost of my home has increased 80%. Not to mention interest rates skyrocketing. Lets say I didnt already own a home. Well then my cost of living would skyrocket as well. And thats completely ignoring food costs.

Are we still waiting for the wealth to trickle down?

Tc is just blue maga

AnsestralRecall posted...

It doesn't

Wage growth has been fucking miserable for decades

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/3/33301f0a.jpg

boomgetchopped3 posted...

My salary has increased 25% since the very beginning of the pandemic. The estimated cost of my home has increased 80%. Not to mention interest rates skyrocketing. Lets say I didnt already own a home. Well then my cost of living would skyrocket as well. And thats completely ignoring food costs.

DarthAragorn posted...

Can I buy a house?

No, no I can't.

I think the whole thing is really just that housing is too expensive is really the answer to the whole issue.

But even with that, like 66% of Americans own homes and the vast majority of them bought before the increased interest rates we are now going through. Most homeowners already locked in low mortgages. The real crunch is for renters and those looking to buy a home.

Umbreon posted...

it's about unregulated capitalism about to burst.

You can't have record profits every year. Especially when said profits requires layoffs and inflation on basic goods. Something is going to give.

I think it's mainly a housing/rent issue for the lower wage people,which isn't really about unregulated capitalism. The main reasons for the horrible housing situation we're in is due to not enough houses being built and that's not really an issue of unregulated capitalism.

Wages went up relative to pre-covid levels, sure, but wages have been suppressed for decades so they are still severely behind inflation long term by a fucking shit ton

emblem-man posted...

Someone could show you data showing that wage growth has outpaced inflation over the past few years, or that median wealth has increased, but why would you think it's wrong?

Since when did I say this hypothetical, made up data was wrong?

This topic makes no sense.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I think making a distinction is good. If wages have outpaced inflation, but there is still a financial crunch, I think that crunch is due to housing which means a higher priority should be on making housing affordable rather than working on making any other things affordable.

emblem-man posted...

I think it's mainly a housing/rent issue for the lower wage people,which isn't really about unregulated capitalism. The main reasons for the horrible housing situation we're in is due to not enough houses being built and that's not really an issue of unregulated capitalism.

No, we have more vacant homes in the country than we have homeless people.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Since when did I say this hypothetical, made up data was wrong?

This topic makes no sense.

What?

emblem-man posted...

I think it's mainly a housing/rent issue for the lower wage people,which isn't really about unregulated capitalism. The main reasons for the horrible housing situation we're in is due to not enough houses being built and that's not really an issue of unregulated capitalism.

There are 16 million vacant homes in the US. There is no shortage so rent and home prices are artificially high. Which means yes, it is in fact a problem with unregulated capitalism.

AnsestralRecall posted...

No, we have more vacant homes in the country than we have homeless people.

By an absolutely absurd amount too.
ScazarMeltex posted...

There are 16 million vacant homes in the US. There is no shortage so rent and home prices are artificially high. Which means yes, it is in fact a problem with unregulated capitalism.

^.

emblem-man posted...

What?

The opening post of your topic imagines data, presupposes that I think its "wrong", then asks me why.

That makes no sense.

https://twitter.com/ArmandDoma/status/1724321193128513613

if we force poor people to move out of the big cities to decrepit vacant homes in dying rust belt towns, we could solve the urban housing shortage...or we could just build more housing where people actually live. Which has been shown to decrease housing costs.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

The opening post of your topic imagines data, presupposes that I think its "wrong", then asks me why.

That makes no sense.

Ah, my bad for not showing the data in the first post. And yes, it's more of a topic of why some people feel it's worse off when most data shows that it shouldn't be.

creativerealms posted...

Also turns out you can't keep cutting taxes on the rich and expect trickle down economics to help anyone but the rich.

I agree, we should have taxes on more people in general in order to have high social net funding.

Mecha_Sonic posted...

https://twitter.com/ArmandDoma/status/1724321193128513613

Yeah, I saw that earlier as well. I pretty much agree with that.

Things being slightly better than during a time when things were already so bad we got Trump isn't exactly a win. People have felt that things aren't adding up for decades now, regardless of who is in office. And that's because the underlying reality hasn't changed. And that hasn't changed because the underlying system hasn't changed.

People now need two incomes and more work to achieve a life that's not even as good as high schooler on a single income decades ago. Education, housing, and healthcare costs have skyrocketed. Wages have stagnated compared to costs and productivity. Much of the apparent increase or even maintenance in people's standard of living has been financed by previously unthinkable levels of debt. Income inequality is growing, and along with it comes a concentration of wealth and political/economic power. Income mobility has stagnated or decreased relative to other developed countries and our parent's generation. All of this has added up to people no longer feeling that hard work will produce a better future for them and their children.

And you're asking why people don't think the economy is good? It's because tens of millions are living in quite desperation, fighting a losing battle in a system they believed to be rigged, with no meaningful help on the way. The only reason they go on is that they have families to support and stopping means ending up homeless.

Because it doesnt account for inequality. Raising interests mainly affects the middle and lower class who now cant afford cars or houses while dealing with higher prices at the grocery store. Also an annual 3% pay increase is not the same when you make 30-50k to when you make 80k+.

Credit card usage/debt ratio is also at record highs, meaning some of this has been buffered by credit.

Job reports are good cause maybe people are getting a 2nd or even 3rd job to combat all this?

So on paper things might look ok, but I think its a slow ticking time bomb.

Alongside all of the reasons that have already been brought up, people are just generally not good at "objectively" evaluating their economic situation. And it's understandable why, because it's one of the major sources of anxiety/stress in people's lives and you don't get points for getting it right.

As an example of how powerful perception is in this regard, it feels worse for 20% of products to inflate 10% five years in a row than if everything increased by 10% all at once.

Combine that with more and more things becoming microtransaction-y and nature and it feels like you're getting nickle and dimed all the time even if on a yearly basis the cost evens out to the same.

Home prices increased on average 48% since pre pandemic:
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/housing-market-home-prices-inventory-pandemic-mortgage-rates-fed-property-2023-6

Kelly Blue book value of car sales increased 26% since 2020:
https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/buying-a-car/people-spending-more-on-new-cars-but-prices-not-necessarily-rising-a3134608893/#:~:text=The%20average%20cost%20of%20new,according%20to%20Kelley%20Blue%20Book.

Food prices increased 23%
https://www.cepr.net/since-the-pandemic-food-prices-have-risen-23-5-percent-people-the-nyt-interviews-have-seen-much-sharper-increases/#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Bureau%20of,sector%20has%20risen%2017.1%20percent.

Record high interest rates, while temporary and done for the right reasons, are crippling new home and car purchases. So people tend to not like when they cant buy stuff for obvious reasons.

You seriously made this topic just so you can trot out that stupid chart again? What is CPI tracking where prices have only increased by 18.7%? Food alone blows away that bullshit number.

WilliamPorygon posted...

Because it's "good" for those who are already stupidly wealthy, not for the middle class.

I was going to say the same thing but for people working in the low class.