Current Events > Should prisoners count towards redistricting?

(+) Yeah! (+)

This is another way that officials gerrymander, by putting a bunch of prisoners into districts to help pump up numbers, despite their inability to vote, not to mention actually receiving any the benefits that a member of Congress gives them. They don't benefit from anything Congress brings to a district.

At least with non citizens, they still receive the benefits despite their inability to vote.

Forty_Niners posted...

This is another way that officials gerrymander, by putting a bunch of prisoners into districts to help pump up numbers, despite their inability to vote, not to mention actually receiving any the benefits that a member of Congress gives them. They don't benefit from anything Congress brings to a district.

At least with non citizens, they still receive the benefits despite their inability to vote.

If you can't vote, you shouldn't count toward then number of potential voters. This is some 3/5ths compromise bullshit. Except here, they still count as a whole person despite not having a voice in the election.

Even if they could vote I'm not sure they should count where they are.

Pawns in a chess game.

But rather, where they used to live.

If they can't vote, they shouldn't count. In cases where they can... I still kinda feel they should count towards where they'd be living if they weren't in prison.

(Under the laws here, prisoners can vote if their sentence is less than 3 years. I don't recall for sure if that was 3 years total, or simply 3 years remaining.)

Prisoners should ALL be allowed to vote. No exceptions.

Prisoners are a pretty big unrepresented interest. It's kinda wild they don't get a say in who is appointing people like the head of state prisons.

FortuneCookie posted...

If you can't vote, you shouldn't count toward then number of potential voters. This is some 3/5ths compromise bullshit. Except here, they still count as a whole person despite not having a voice in the election.

Would you include legal immigrants in this opinion? A region with a high number of immigrants should have less say than the number of people who actually live there would otherwise grant that region?

Sariana21 posted...

Would you include legal immigrants in this opinion? A region with a high number of immigrants should have less say than the number of people who actually live there would otherwise grant that region?

If they can't vote, that seems fair. Although I would be asking some very big questions about anyone who simultaneously thinks that legal immigrants shouldn't have voting rights but prisoners should. (Both, or neither, or the other way around, are all a fair bit less questionable.)

So where should they count for redistricting? They're obviously not in their home locations, but they have to be counted as residing somewhere.

A_Good_Boy posted...

So where should they count for redistricting? They're obviously not in their home locations, but they have to be counted as residing somewhere.

Where do DC residents count when it comes to redistricting?

Forty_Niners posted...

Where do DC residents count when it comes to redistricting?

DC

A_Good_Boy posted...

DC

Prisoners get representatives and DC does not.

Forty_Niners posted...

Prisoners get representatives and DC does not.

I know?

It sounds like you're conflating two completely different things though.

A_Good_Boy posted...

I know?

It sounds like you're conflating two completely different things though.

I'm saying, consider prisoners in that grey area like we do DC residents. If anything, just have a national delegate elected to 'represent' them.

Constitutionally the answer has to be yes. The criteria for redistricting refers to the number of 'persons' in a district and prisoners count as persons by any reasonable definition. I agree that they should be allowed to vote but trying to exclude them from being counted if they can't is a complete non-starter and shouldn't even be attempted.

Lillymon posted...

Constitutionally the answer has to be yes. The criteria for redistricting refers to the number of 'persons' in a district and prisoners count as persons by any reasonable definition. I agree that they should be allowed to vote but trying to exclude them from being counted if they can't is a complete non-starter and shouldn't even be attempted.

Prisoners don't get to decide where they reside though. They're told where to live.

Forty_Niners posted...

Prisoners don't get to decide where they reside though. They're told where to live.

You're attempting a moral argument on what is clearly a legal issue. None of this matters to the legal issue of redistricting and any reasonable judge would not only throw your claims out but sanction you for repeatedly bringing up irrelevant arguments.

Forty_Niners posted...

I'm saying, consider prisoners in that grey area like we do DC residents. If anything, just have a national delegate elected to 'represent' them.

I feel like that's incredibly shortsighted. The prison population still needs to be cared for, and the funds for that have to be budgeted. If the prison population for a district doesn't count when it comes to funding allocation or for districting then how do they get cared for? I agree that it sucks that they're not allowed to vote, but they still have to be counted as residing somewhere.

A_Good_Boy posted...

I feel like that's incredibly shortsighted. The prison population still needs to be cared for, and the funds for that have to be budgeted. If the prison population for a district doesn't count when it comes to funding allocation or for districting then how do they get cared for? I agree that it sucks that they're not allowed to vote, but they still have to be counted as residing somewhere.

What funds do you think prisons are getting?

The Justice Department by itself distributes more than $5 billion in federal grants to state and local governments annually

They're not getting it from census numbers, because they know the numbers already, because each prisoner is already accounted for when they enter the system. A representative doesn't represent a prisoner.

Maybe 3/5s of them.

Just to be clear. I am implying that prisoners like they are slaves, and then wanting to use them to get more voting power is nasty. Like the south using their hostages way back in 1787.