Current Events > Russian asset Jill Stein is running for President again

(+) Yeah! (+)

I can blame Hillary for losing. She was a bad candidate. But you still had a choice to make on Nov 8 2016.

I want one of the so called progressives to explain to me how not voting for her knowing the SC would be lost to the far right for decades was a progressive action.

Edit: Also love the "dnc forced her on us" narrative. She got more votes from the people. Over 3 million more votes.

Shadow_Don posted...

I can blame Hillary for losing. She was a bad candidate. But you still had a choice to make on Nov 8 2016.

I want one of the so called progressives to explain to me how not voting for her knowing the SC would be lost to the far right for decades was a progressive action.

That's a strawman. Of course I can't speak for others, but I voted for Hillary in the general election. The problem is that during the primaries, Hillary supporters assured everyone that Hillary was the safest choice and that we had to nominate her because of the supreme court. She then went on to lose against a clown.

Shadow_Don posted...

Edit: Also love the "dnc forced her on us" narrative. She got more votes from the people. Over 3 million more votes.

She got more votes from party diehards in a process controlled by the party, yes.

1337toothbrush posted...

Hillary supporters assured everyone that Hillary was the safest choice and that we had to nominate her because of the supreme court.

Ok and? Sounds like something someone and their supporters would say in a campaign.

"Hillary said she was the best choice for president! No fair!!"

1337toothbrush posted...

She got more votes from party diehards

People voting for the party they support is unfair now too? lmfao

I think I voted for her in 2012 in the primary.

Shadow_Don posted...

Ok and? Sounds like something someone and their supporters would say in a campaign.

and that means they stuck to their loser candidate at the cost of the general election. You pointed the finger at progressives, but it was the Hillary stans who forced Hillary through that cost democrats the election in 2016. So if you want to blame anyone, blame Hillary and her stans.

Shadow_Don posted...

People voting for the party they support is unfair now too? lmfao

You're confused. We were talking about the primaries. Don't mix it up as if I was talking about the general. Hillary was boosted by the DNC and big media and participating in a party process. Don't pretend none of these have an effect on primary voter actions. Don't ignore who is most likely to vote in a party primary.

LoZguy709 posted...

Does anyone know the Green Party's argument for impeding in a presidential election with an incumbent Democrat that passed one of the largest clean energy bills after the previous Republican currently seeking office again did everything to bring the country back to outdated, harmful energy sources, thereby influencing the global economy for the worse? I'd really fucking like to know.

I'd much rather see them use this stamina to get Democrats to more effectively prioritize the climate crisis.

Very good question

1337toothbrush posted...

was the Hillary stans who forced Hillary through

By "forced" you mean voting?

And your narrative here seems to crumble when you admitted Obama ran a progressive campaign.

Hillary was also the insider candidate in the 2008 election and she was beaten by Obama's progressive campaign no?

I guess Bernie should have ran a better campaign against her.

1337toothbrush posted...

You're confused. We were talking about the primaries. Don't mix it up as if I was talking about the general.

He wasn't. He was talking about the primaries, where Hillary got 3 million more votes than Bernie.

1337toothbrush posted...

So if you want to blame anyone, blame Hillary and her stans.

Nah, I'm going to blame you and people like you. You all knew Hillary couldn't win and you didn't bother to present a candidate that could even beat her in the primaries. Instead all of you people stubbornly stuck to your king Bernie and lost. Now you're blaming everyone but yourselves for losing us the Supreme Court and the healthcare of millions of women.

Shadow_Don posted...

By "forced" you mean voting?

And your narrative here seems to crumble when you admitted Obama ran a progressive campaign.

Hillary was also the insider candidate in the 2008 election and she was beaten by Obama's progressive campaign no?

I guess Bernie should have ran a better campaign against her.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/

Heineken14 posted...

Nah, I'm going to blame you and people like you. You all knew Hillary couldn't win and you didn't bother to present a candidate that could even beat her in the primaries. Instead all of you people stubbornly stuck to your king Bernie and lost. Now you're blaming everyone but yourselves for losing us the Supreme Court and the healthcare of millions of women.

No candidate could beat Hillary in the party primaries because the process was rigged by the party for Hillary to win. They did not want a repeat of 2008. So are you going to blame me for trying to win the general by voting for Bernie in the primaries or are you going to blame me for voting for Hillary in the general?

The dnc didn't want a repeat of Obama from 2008? Are you fucking high?

1337toothbrush posted...

No candidate could beat Hillary in the party primaries

Oh, well glad you admit that.

1337toothbrush posted...

So are you going to blame me for trying to win the general by voting for Bernie in the primaries or are you going to blame me for voting for Hillary in the general?

Yes, I already told you. You Bernie stans were too stubborn to run a better candidate because he's your king and can do no wrong. You cost us the Supreme Court.

Fenriswolf posted...

Ahh yes anyone that dares to run against Biden is a Russian plant, even though Biden proved himself to be such a shill for Israel by claiming that figures of dead Palestinian kids to be lies while irresponsibly recycles Israeli propaganda.

Not anyone, but Jill Stein definitely is.

I voted for her in 2016.

Im not in a battleground state.

Shadow_Don posted...

The dnc didn't want a repeat of Obama from 2008? Are you fucking high?

An even worse condition than that.

If you want 3rd parties to have a shot you need ranked choice voting and do something about FPtP. Until then, you're pissing your vote away if you vote anything other than Dem or Rep. Get upset about it if you want, but if you think you're accomplishing ANYTHING voting Green party you're deeply politically ignorant.

Fenriswolf posted...

*Jill Stein sitting on the same table as Putin = Russian plant
*Joe Biden repeatedly shilling for Netanyahu, turning a blind eye to IDF atrocities and calling Palestinians liars = "actually it's really complicated"

Joe Biden (and literally every other politician) being an Israel shill doesn't preclude Jill Stein being, at best, a useful idiot for Russia

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

If you want 3rd parties to have a shot you need ranked choice voting and do something about FPtP. Until then, you're pissing your vote away if you vote anything other than Dem or Rep. Get upset about it if you want, but if you think you're accomplishing ANYTHING voting Green party you're deeply politically ignorant.

I don't get why they don't go harder for local elections where they actually have a chance to win due to low voter turnout

Fenriswolf posted...

Ahh

*Jill Stein sitting on the same table as Putin = Russian plant
*Joe Biden repeatedly shilling for Netanyahu, turning a blind eye to IDF atrocities and calling Palestinians liars = "actually it's really complicated"

Pray tell, what nuance makes Jill Stein breaking bread with Vladimir Putin in 2015 a wise decision?

shockthemonkey posted...

jfc you dont have to make posts that are equally stupid to his youre both embarrassing yourselves

You think maybe there is a reason that I'm doing it?

Shadow_Don posted...

Edit: Also love the "dnc forced her on us" narrative. She got more votes from the people. Over 3 million more votes.

We know the results. We're saying they came after most of the party endorsed her.

Heineken14 posted...

You all knew Hillary couldn't win and you didn't bother to present a candidate that could even beat her in the primaries.

1. We can't force politicians to run for office. Barely anyone ran in 2016 and barely anyone's running now, despite huge demand for alternatives in each race. Bernie only got the attention he did because he was the only decent candidate.

2. It's possible there was nobody who could beat Hillary in 2016. She had a massive endorsement and superdelegate advantage. 2020 showed us that even if a candidate decisively loses the first three states, gaining endorsements can singlehandedly revive their campaign. The party's endorsement stacking is what's being complained about.

Heineken14 posted...

Instead all of you people stubbornly stuck to your king Bernie and lost.

Where were the alternatives? The only other people running were Hillary, weird moderates, and a guy who gift wrapped Maryland governorship to the Republicans because he taxed peoples' driveways over rainwater.

Inohira posted...

Where were the alternatives? The only other people running were Hillary, weird moderates, and a guy who gift wrapped Maryland governorship to the Republicans because he taxed peoples' driveways over rainwater.

Pick a better candidate.

Humble_Novice posted...

Do you regret it?

My family wanted me to go Clinton. I have the freedom to vote who I want for, my parents think 3rd parties should be banned.

Are we really going to entertain the viewpoint of someone who blames the Democratic candidate for losing the general election after deliberately supporting someone else in that election? It's one thing to hear it from 2016 Bernie supporters that actually voted Democrat in the 2016 general election, but to hear it from anyone else is infuriating beyond words.

Beau Biden dying in 2015 had an incredible butterfly effect. Had Beau been healthy, Biden runs in 2016, rides on Obamas popularity, cruises to victory over Trump and MAGA is just seen as another failed GOP experiment and abandoned.

Shadow_Don posted...

The dnc didn't want a repeat of Obama from 2008? Are you fucking high?

Sounds crazy, doesn't it? Not wanting a wildly popular candidate would be utterly stupid, right? Well the way the DNC saw it was "we don't want some party nobody to beat our chosen one". There was a lot of bitterness after Hillary lost the primaries in 2008. In fact, far more Hillary supporters voted for McCain than Bernie supporters voting for Trump, so if you want to talk about self-serving destruction, look no further than Hillary supporters. Obama moved to repair relations by appointing Hillary as secretary of state and then she did her run in 2016 with a more tightly-controlled primary process. The rest is history.

Shadow_Don posted...

The dnc didn't want a repeat of Obama from 2008? Are you fucking high?

In a manner of speaking. Obama was a great candidate who brought young voters into the fold and ushered a Democratic wave into Congress. But he was viewed as having a negative impact on party fundraising, mostly attracting donations to himself while the national party starved (like a smaller example of the effect Trump has on the GOP's fundraising), and further complicating matters by establishing a ban on donations from federal lobbyists. The DNC blamed both that and the unreliability of young voters for their devastating Congressional losses in 2010.

Hillary was viewed as being much more of a team player with fundraising and attractive to a more reliable coalition of voters, who would support the party in the midterms too instead of just only showing up for presidential elections. While Bernie was viewed as an infinitely worse Obama in these regards.

emblem-man posted...

I don't get why they don't go harder for local elections where they actually have a chance to win due to low voter turnout

Because it doesn't really help. We elected AOC and she just became a boogeyman for Republicans to use against socialism. Even though AOC and her handful of allies have barely any power in the House and can't change things just their presence as fierce young progressives helped their conservative/centrist critics turn the moderates Bernie rallied in 2016 off from the movement in 2020 onward.

Heineken14 posted...

Oh, well glad you admit that.

Quote my whole post and respond to the points properly. I'm not going to entertain your out-of-context selective quoting trying to frame me as saying something I'm not.

As opposed to Russian asset Donald Trump running again?

Are there really that many liberals or even moderates that have such significant disdain for AOC? Whenever I see criticism of her, the vast majority of the time it is coming from a Republican hack. I'm sure there are some moderates that were turned off by her Green New Deal, but fuck anyone that actually let that influence their voting because they're trash people anyways.

She's probably gonna make "from the river to the sea" her campaign slogan and split the dem vote by getting all of gen z to vote for her and then we'll have 4 more years of Trump. Assuming he doesn't declare himself God Emperor and rule in perpetuity. :v

Block_that_Kick posted...

Beau Biden dying in 2015 had an incredible butterfly effect. Had Beau been healthy, Biden runs in 2016, rides on Obamas popularity, cruises to victory over Trump and MAGA is just seen as another failed GOP experiment and abandoned.

No, since Biden wouldn't have beat Hillary. Biden won 2020 in a specific way that wouldn't have been plausible in 2016.

He would've destroyed Trump though so it's unfortunate.

Plumeofdusk posted...

She's probably gonna make "from the river to the sea" her campaign slogan and split the dem vote by getting all of gen z to vote for her and then we'll have 4 more years of Trump. Assuming he doesn't declare himself God Emperor and rule in perpetuity. :v

As dramatic as this post reads, I could see this scenario being a problem in 2028 if younger generations get fed shitty/manipulative information, which is one of Republicans' favorite strategies to winning lately along with promoting other spoiler candidates of the celebrity type (think Kanye)

1337toothbrush posted...

Sounds crazy, doesn't it? Not wanting a wildly popular candidate would be utterly stupid, right?

Or, the less crazy alternative hypothesis, Obama's campaign was better than Bernie's?

Shadow_Don posted...

Or, the less crazy alternative hypothesis, Obama's campaign was better than Bernie's?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/

Shadow_Don posted...

Or, the less crazy alternative hypothesis, Obama's campaign was better than Bernie's?

That doesn't contradict his point. Hillary started with more superdelegates in 2016 than she did in 2008, that's just a fact.

1337toothbrush posted...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/

Literally nothing to do with whether or not Bernie ran a better campaign than Obama.

And if you're suggesting that he did then you're smoking crack.

Inohira posted...

No, since Biden wouldn't have beat Hillary. Biden won 2020 in a specific way that wouldn't have been plausible in 2016.

He would've destroyed Trump though so it's unfortunate.

In a different universe, Biden is currently finishing up his second term and Gavin Newsom is likely the next man up for the Democrats next year.

The year is 2243, and I still see people arguing about the 2016 Democratic Primary