Current Events > Incels: 'I wish women would look past my height and appreciate my personality.'

(+) Yeah! (+)

Inohira posted...

That's a tall guy thing unless you're extremely charming.

I managed a few of those long before I became charming. Sometimes, while stumbling through your own social issues, you'll manage to get some every once in a while. Sorta like how when learning how to bake you'll still sometimes have a delicious treat regardless of how well you actually made it.

Inohira posted...

That's a tall guy thing unless you're extremely charming.

As the tall guy: Either I know a lot of non-talls that are extremely charming, or your parameters are off. Given that you're saying what you're saying, it is likely I am more well adjusted to socializing than you are, and so I am more likely to be correct on this subject.

Glob posted...

It's preferential and often mandatory to be a certain height. Along with having a certain level of income. Certain features(not being skinny or not being buff), having hair, etc. In other words, there are high standards for dating/relationships. Not much so for simple friendships.

Literally one trip to the supermarket should dispel you of this idea. A lot of average sized couples with average incomes and average hair loss rates. Almost like average people are, you know, average. But moreso than that is a notable lack of tall, handsome, rich people going out and about. When you see that, it is notable because it is rare.

Just, fuckin', go out, buy groceries, watch people. As I typed this I realized it is somewhat cruel, because the only real thing I'm correcting is your parameters: The average people dating are average. What you consider to be important to getting a mate really isn't. You only consider those to be important because you have limited social experience, or because attributing fault to immutable characteristics of other people is easier than dealing with the fact that it might just be you as a person. The thing is, acknowledging and trying to change the latter is your best shot. Which of course can also be scary, because you can try and still fail, instead of never having to experience failure in the first place.

Please dont misquote me. @Guide

NPC posted...

Yup older virgin here. Not sure of your story but I bet you're like me and asking out every other women and they just turn us down without a second thought. After being rejected 100 times in a month you almost become... numb to it. How many women turned you down this month? I usually try and approach at the bar.

40 year old virgin here. Never had a date or anything similar. But no, I don't ask people out like that. I'm afraid to even get that far.

I haven't even attempted anything for close to 3 years I think. Then even that was just like a month or two on bumble till I spoke to 1 person. It had been like 5 years before that when the last time I tried was.

I just don't have the heart to put myself out there like other people do. It hurts, and I hate myself for it. I really wish someone would see me and take an interest and have something develop that way naturally... But no. At this point I think I'm too far gone to help.

KogaSteelfang posted...

40 year old virgin here. Never had a date or anything similar. But no, I don't ask people out like that. I'm afraid to even get that far.

I haven't even attempted anything for close to 3 years I think. Then even that was just like a month or two on bumble till I spoke to 1 person. It had been like 5 years before that when the last time I tried was.

I just don't have the heart to put myself out there like other people do. It hurts, and I hate myself for it. I really wish someone would see me and take an interest and have something develop that way naturally... But no. At this point I think I'm too far gone to help.

Only as long as you believe you are. Thats all thats holding you back, mate.

Glob posted...

Only as long as you believe you are. Thats all thats holding you back, mate.

I'm going to keep my responses brief, because I tend to go full pity party if I discuss things too much and I'm already having to resist that urge.

But I do have a lot of emotional trauma from being really badly abused most of my life. I was always really reserved and shy, so it was hard to make friends and get close to people. I've just become even more closed off as an adult, and all the failure I have experienced just reinforced the idea that no one could ever want me.

Besides, who knows what all issues might pop up if someone does get close to me. I e never had to deal with that, and it's he a struggle anyway, so if any more issues arise from that I wouldn't know how to deal with it.

All in all, I'm just so wildly inexperienced and unequipped at dealing with people being emotionally close. I still want that, but it terrifies me at the same time. I don't want to be a burden to anyone, but it feels like that's all I'd be if anyone attempted to add me to their lives. Not to mention that I'm simply not worth adding...

And this isn't a brief post after all. Ugh.

KogaSteelfang posted...

I'm going to keep my responses brief, because I tend to go full pity party if I discuss things too much and I'm already having to resist that urge.

But I do have a lot of emotional trauma from being really badly abused most of my life. I was always really reserved and shy, so it was hard to make friends and get close to people. I've just become even more closed off as an adult, and all the failure I have experienced just reinforced the idea that no one could ever want me.

Besides, who knows what all issues might pop up if someone does get close to me. I e never had to deal with that, and it's he a struggle anyway, so if any more issues arise from that I wouldn't know how to deal with it.

All in all, I'm just so wildly inexperienced and unequipped at dealing with people being emotionally close. I still want that, but it terrifies me at the same time. I don't want to be a burden to anyone, but it feels like that's all I'd be if anyone attempted to add me to their lives. Not to mention that I'm simply not worth adding...

And this isn't a brief post after all. Ugh.

I know all of that, and Im sorry for your suffering. I understand that you have your reasons. I have a very good understanding of the long term psychological damage abuse can have.

However, by acknowledging that you are allowing your past to dictate your future, you can choose to take control of your life. Nobody else can do that for you.

And yes, it might go wrong. It probably will, to at least some degree. That doesnt mean it isnt worth trying.

Glob posted...

I know all of that, and Im sorry for your suffering. I understand that you have your reasons. I have a very good understanding of the long term psychological damage abuse can have.

However, by acknowledging that you are allowing your past to dictate your future, you can choose to take control of your life. Nobody else can do that for you.

And yes, it might go wrong. It probably will, to at least some degree. That doesnt mean it isnt worth trying.

I have tried, and failed a ton. I've failed every attempt, and I know it doesn't sound like I've tried a lot(and I guess I really haven't compared to other people) but I did spend several years trying online dating. Each time I just stepped away feeling worse until I just stopped. Then I'd take years to recover enough to try again, and then basically just flush my mental health right down the toilet.

It feels like it's just take a little success to help turn things around, but since I'm struggling to find literally any form of success it's not looking good.

As a 5'6 person here and was still considered short even in my childhood and teen years, it really does get to you when there's such a double standards against short people. Where you're openly mocked for something you can't control and you're forced to be okay with it but make fun of someone over something controllable, like their weight, and all of a sudden you're the asshole. How I get called a midget when I'm not. I tried everything in the book to make myself taller like drinking milk, having my younger brother pull on my legs, using supplments that will supposedly "help" with growing, etc. My mom is 5'6, my dad is 5'10, my younger brother is 5'11, and finally my younger sister is 5'7. I always found it humiliating how everyone assumes my brother and sisters are older than me, where I don't want to take a picture next to my mom because I hate how we're on even grounds. It gets to you.

I felt like this from childhood through my early college years. How did I grow out of it though? Having a good mentor both my life and fitness coach that emphasized self improvement and noted that while I will have massive disadvantages because of my height. With his words, I instead of bitching and moaning about it I might as well improve on things that I can control like my body/health, aiming to graduate and get a good job, improve my social skills by forcing myself to be put in a uncomfortable social setting, etc. There's always something to improve upon and positive changes in my life didn't automatically start because of it, but eventually it did. I met my wife 3 years ago at a community service event at a local church near my apartment. If i still had the toxic mindset I used to have, I would never be in a position to start a friendship with her that naturally became a relationship to marriage.

Yeah I know this is a TMI, but it's something I am very passionate about when sharing. I'm hoping my life experience can at least attempt to be relatable in someway, even as small as possible. The last thing I want is for people to have a toxic view on life in general, I know I've been there and faced it before...and I fucking hated it. I'm the most happy in my life that I could be at the moment, espcially with my second child coming really soon.

Glob posted...

Only as long as you believe you are. Thats all thats holding you back, mate.

Depends on the person.

Prestoff posted...

my second child coming really soon.

I'm happy for you, I really am... But you got your happy life. My only dream in life was to be a husband and father,vans that's never going to happen.

And now that my mind is on it, I've had 3 minor panic attacks at work since I posted. Got a couple hours to go and I'm getting irritated as heck by the guests as is. lol

Guide posted...

As the tall guy: Either I know a lot of non-talls that are extremely charming, or your parameters are off. Given that you're saying what you're saying, it is likely I am more well adjusted to socializing than you are, and so I am more likely to be correct on this subject.

Literally one trip to the supermarket should dispel you of this idea. A lot of average sized couples with average incomes and average hair loss rates. Almost like average people are, you know, average. But moreso than that is a notable lack of tall, handsome, rich people going out and about. When you see that, it is notable because it is rare.

Just, fuckin', go out, buy groceries, watch people. As I typed this I realized it is somewhat cruel, because the only real thing I'm correcting is your parameters: The average people dating are average. What you consider to be important to getting a mate really isn't. You only consider those to be important because you have limited social experience, or because attributing fault to immutable characteristics of other people is easier than dealing with the fact that it might just be you as a person. The thing is, acknowledging and trying to change the latter is your best shot. Which of course can also be scary, because you can try and still fail, instead of never having to experience failure in the first place.

Things have changed. People are getting only fans and making more money than a regular job, posting pictures on instagram, being treated like deity's on social media, and getting treated like models . The average individual doesn't want to go with the average person anymore. not when they have 40+ folks in their dm's, with even verified users hitting them up and getting offered to be flown out.

it's not enough to be average looking with average income. when modern people are seeking those who make 6 figures or high up in the totem pole in society. If a person is "Average" they are at risk of the other person leaving for someone they feel is better. even if the average individual has a good personality. average people aren't even approaching as much, and the realistic viable option is online dating, where the standards are even higher due to needing good pics and competition.

many popular dating podcasts have touched upon this. showing that the standards are higher than ever

Pointless_Topic posted...

Things have changed. People are getting only fans and making more money than a regular job, posting pictures on instagram, being treated like deity's on social media, and getting treated like models . The average individual doesn't want to go with the average person anymore. not when they have 40+ folks in their dm's, with even verified users hitting them up and getting offered to be flown out.

it's not enough to be average looking with average income. when modern people are seeking those who make 6 figures or high up in the totem pole in society. If a person is "Average" they are at risk of the other person leaving for someone they feel is better. even if the average individual has a good personality. average people aren't even approaching as much, and the realistic viable option is online dating, where the standards are even higher due to needing good pics and competition.

many popular dating podcasts have touched upon this. showing that the standards are higher than ever

Stop chatting red pill bullshit.

It's not very easy to have a sexual relationship lol what

Top 3 tips to getting a good relationship

Don't be a simp
Don't be a cuck
Dont be fake

VeggetaX posted...

It's not very easy to have a sexual relationship lol what

It's not easy to have an actual real boyfriend/girlfriend relationship.

Solar_Crimson posted...

I got this from the Incel Tears subreddit.

And now I have a new subreddit.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

No, its what being a piece of shit does to a MFer.

I always have to ask how people get so hateful. I know its likely taught from parent figures, but you would hope we be moving past it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Some people just dont understand that. An ex of mine thought I was being unreasonable because I didnt want anything to do with her.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Youll get no argument from me on that front. It was purely her trying to have some kind of control. After we broke up, I moved to another continent and started a new life. She didnt like that.

As far as Im concerned, I owe her nothing. Im happier without her in my life and its not like we have to stay civil for logistical reasons as we live on opposite sides of the globe. I see no good reason to stay in touch with her.

Incels create a massive wall between themselves and the rest of society, especially women. The few that break over that wall are considered traitors and the scum of the earth by many. Honestly, even guys considered unattractive can get dates and find serious relationships if willing to put forth the effort and take a risk, but it's unbelievably hard to do. Staying behind the wall is too comforting, even if it is killing them on the inside.

Pointless_Topic posted...

So you abandoned the people who care about you?

She didnt care about me. She cared about controlling me. Not the same thing at all.

Also, with all due respect, you would do well to shut the fuck up about stuff that you clearly know nothing about.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

So you just abandon and turn your back on anyone, even your close friends? I remember you outright said you have no tolerance for people who get into arguments with you Irl(friends or relationships)

Pointless_Topic posted...

So you just abandon and turn your back on anyone, even your close friends?

She's like the gunslinger.

A_Good_Boy posted...

He's like the gunslinger.

Gladius is female and I believe most people know that.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Thats pretty much what I originally came into the topic to say.

Glob posted...

Gladius is female and I believe most people know that.

I had no idea.

I also did not read the rest of this topic when I made this post. Oops. It really is not impossible. Personal experience not having anyone myself for most of my life. Have to take even the smallest of risks and see what happens, but it is extremely difficult.

A_Good_Boy posted...

So what does work?

Your genetics according to incels

A_Good_Boy posted...

I had no idea.

If you really didnt, fair enough.

Flauros posted...

Top 3 tips to getting a good relationship

Don't be a simp
Don't be a cuck
Dont be fake

Can you elaborate on that one?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's fine & you're allowed to have that opinion, & at no point did I say any of that is really & truly wrong. But I'm talking about how the habit of ghosting & the failure for people to effectively use communication is what's creating more situations where dudes in the OP just flip out because of that communication being non-existent. So then eventually they just flip the fuck out & clearly need law enforcement or therapy hovering over them.

Men don't understand signals well from women because women have been conditioned to be low key with them & to not be as bold with their approaches, so generally men are the ones approaching in 80% of situations. This gigantic advantage for women has made a lot reluctant to be open with men because obviously like that dude in the OP, they can't take it. Honest forthcoming dialogue doesn't happen because let's be frank most men aren't equipped to have that dialogue because they were never given proper instruction by another man or men in general on how to properly interact with women.

So then women don't say or communicate as much because they have to be careful lest a guy lose his shit upon being rejected. But then this has made women just ghost or not communicate, kicking the can down the road for if there was an actual issue with a dude, or if she didn't get his calls or texts, or her phone was off at the time. I've had all of this happen to me personally. You're basically telling me that if I text someone one time, & she genuinely didn't get the message & would like to talk, that I have to assume she's not interested even if a technical issue or work or anything else was actually the case.

Then I self terminate that relationship based on a vibe, instead of being told "hey sorry I was really busy at work & didn't reply yet". Too late though I already blocked the number & moved on for closures sake.

You're actively contributing to the degradation of human relationships with this style of interaction because that's exactly what tinder & bumble & hinge have fostered online. Fast food relationships meant to be quick & on a server line, so people don't interact or honestly talk to one another. You're one woman's opinion & you're not a monolithic group, lots of women say they want to see a guy reach out more than one time, some say they want to see calls, some want space between interactions, the list goes on.

If people gave up after one attempt, there would be tons of anecdotal marriages and relationships that wouldn't exist because people just blew it up & moved on, it's not always harassment, there's a very clear defining line for that. I just think you need to actually read through some recent articles from psychology today, vogue even, mens & women's health, stuff like that to read into this more because your perception of how complicated relationships are is too binary. It's not that simple.

Post was edited so...

But yeah, incel groups is crab mentality amplified.

They want you to be miserable. They want you to be as sad and pathetic as they are, and they want you to hate women for "not giving them a chance".

But if one lonely soul does find someone, are they celebrated? Are they the ones the others point to and say "See?! If that guy made it, it's not hopeless for us!"

Nah. They just start hating that guy too. Because such communities... aren't.

You could have a million incels together in a group, and very few of them (if any) would actually be friends. Hatred doesn't bring people together outside of wartime, and in the end being surrounded by people doesn't mean you still can't be lonely.

Those groups will drown you themselves before they see you find success.

I hate ghosting, though I understand I'm not entitled to anyone's attention.

Though I think what's more annoying is when you start getting half assed replies that offer you nothing. Like for some reason they can't just say "Not interested", they instead choose one word answers to whatever you just asked them (Even if it wasn't a yes or no question). Again, I'm not entitled to anything, but seems like this particular game is slower than just saying "No thanks".

That being said, I am also aware that women often run into some crazy guys that will flip the fuck out over even polite rejection.

Umbreon posted...

I hate ghosting, though I understand I'm not entitled to anyone's attention.

Though I think what's more annoying is when you start getting half assed replies that offer you nothing. Like for some reason they can't just say "Not interested", they instead choose one word answers to whatever you just asked them (Even if it wasn't a yes or no question). Again, I'm not entitled to anything, but seems like this particular game is slower than just saying "No thanks".

That being said, I am also aware that women often run into some crazy guys that will flip the fuck out over even polite rejection.

This is what I'm talking about, I think Asherlee is too focused on her own perspective as a single woman in a male dominated society, & isn't thinking about the genuine games that other men & women play that both contribute to this issue. Replying but not saying "I'm not interested", or not replying at all instead of just saying that, has led into what's turned into mind games & cat & mouse.

Dating & relationships have become full on mini games of minesweeper because either people don't honestly communicate their disinterest so the other person knows & stops trying, or they do say something out of fear of something worse happening if they don't, & mens unstable condition on speaking to women makes them blow a gasket over nothing even if the rejection is polite. It's a severely multifaceted issue.
https://youtu.be/HaxSzEadMhk?si=nWB5wfmuHOE874ug

Like take this for instance, Moist man showed off an interaction between a dude & a girl who were gonna go out on a date, & the woman dodged a massive fucking bullet. I understand why women worry about being forthcoming & honest, most of my friends are women & I hear crazy shit all the time, but I'm just saying everyone needs to be the change they want to see & blah blah blah for things to improve. Cause dating as it stands today is inarguably fucked & I think we all agree with that

Even if incels really are too ugly and short to get a date I don't see why they hate women for that because that's just natural selection at work. From a biology standpoint, romance and sex exist for us to pass on our genes and we want to do that with the most genetically fit individual we can find. So the whole "women should like me for my personality" thing seems like childish idealism to me.

That said, incels don't seem to be that ugly from what I've seen. Most of them look like normal people that I wouldn't think twice about if I passed them in the store. Their inceldom is probably a result of poor social skills and isolation more than their looks.