Current Events > How do you feel about male characters in fiction, displaying emotion?

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Zikten
11/07/23 6:03:32 AM
#1:


Example

https://youtu.be/o03STclgxSc?si=qKtS0q67Um2JXTYr

Cinematic trailer for next World of Warcraft expansion. Backstory is that in a previous expansion, the human suffered horrifying psychological trauma and he's still dealing with it. I've seen lots of people on youtube making fun of the human and I don't get it.

Men can have emotions. Men can suffer from grief or guilt, self hatred or PTSD
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pegusus123456
11/07/23 6:05:21 AM
#2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c

it was for the meme, mods, don't ban me pls

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Gremlynn
11/07/23 6:18:07 AM
#3:


everyone i play WoW with that i've spoken with about that trailer have agreed that it good. Well written and well acted dialogue for what Anduin has been through and animated in a beautiful way all but devoid of uncanny valley (a feat in and of itself).

Like, you can argue that most major lead characters in WoW have done and/or seen worse than Anduin went through, which could put his "not after what i've seen, what i've done!" line in a sour light. But that doesn't change how genuine the delivery feels.

And it's not even like, a "feminine" emotional outburst i could see the chuds having a moment about. It's a grizzled, haggard warrior puffing his chest and barring his teeth and manifesting his trauma response in the only acceptable emotion for men to feel, anger.

The only conclusion i can reach from anybody mocking the "emotional moment" of this scene is that they completely lack the emotional maturity to feel any sense of guilt or remorse over their actions.

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Doe
11/07/23 6:18:45 AM
#4:


Is this topic wording the only way to get people to watch a WoW cinematic now

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75GL-BYZFfY
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Gremlynn
11/07/23 6:18:56 AM
#5:


pegusus123456 posted...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaG5SAw1n0c

it was for the meme, mods, don't ban me pls

Anybody that would mark you doesn't ship Anduin with Wrathion and is therefor unworthy of recognition.

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CountCorvinus
11/07/23 6:20:00 AM
#6:


Same way I feel about any other gender showing emotion.

*SKIP*

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majin_nemesis
11/07/23 6:20:28 AM
#7:


What do you feel about female characters in fiction displaying emotion? Why not asking that too?
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pegusus123456
11/07/23 6:22:07 AM
#8:


Really, this is a sign that WoW has gone super woke.

I mean, my god, they defeated Sylvanas in BFA by cancelling her for saying the n word.

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Zikten
11/07/23 6:24:17 AM
#9:


majin_nemesis posted...
What do you feel about female characters in fiction displaying emotion? Why not asking that too?
Because society never mocks them for showing emotion
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Dalthine
11/07/23 6:32:04 AM
#10:


I mean, I didn't watch the clip but it's something I feel like needs to happen more in general.

One Piece is my current long term watch project and it's been very refreshing having scenes where grown men--even the tough ones--bawl their eyes out.
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majin_nemesis
11/07/23 6:48:59 AM
#11:


Zikten posted...
Because society never mocks them for showing emotion
They don't mock men either
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Jabraham
11/07/23 6:50:39 AM
#12:


I'm a liberated man, I know crying's not weak.

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mazingetter
11/07/23 7:02:31 AM
#13:


Kenshiro made crying manly.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/12f7c3c3.jpg
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ToteAll
11/07/23 7:11:57 AM
#14:


Loved the cinematic
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Sufferedphoenix
11/07/23 7:15:50 AM
#15:


Play mgs 3 and tell me big boss didn't do very well to not flip shits. He showed emotion but he kept it very tame considering what he had to do. Now the path he went down aftwe was a tad extreme. But his initial reaction was sheding just a tear or two.

I'd probably wanna slap a man for not showing at least that much emotion after that shit.

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NatsuSama
11/07/23 7:23:23 AM
#16:


majin_nemesis posted...
They don't mock men either
Ya, that definitely isn't true. At least here in the states.

The attitude of seeing men being emotional is improving a lil, but definitely is not something widely accepted for mental health. It's often seen as "less manly" and I'd willing go to go even farther to say it contributes to some of these mass shootings and the high correlation of male mass shooters in the states. Suicide rates are also higher in men for a very clear reason.

Woman are more likely to talk about how they feel since there's less of a stigma when they do it.

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Thompson
11/07/23 7:26:36 AM
#17:


In lieu of writing a detailed and exhaustive analysis, I'm going to keep this very succinct and state that crying isn't manly; it's human.

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Sufferedphoenix
11/07/23 7:29:53 AM
#18:


NatsuSama posted...
Ya, that definitely isn't true.

The attitude of seeing men being emotional is improving a lil, but definitely is not something widely accepted.

Yeah its something that should be normalized. I rarely cry and honestly it sucks. Few times I've cried I honestly feel like some weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

Like for example I was so stressed at one point I had a knot in my shoulder that wouldn't go away it ached everyday. Finally I hit a breaking point and cried hard. That knot went away.

To this day that was the most stress I've ever been under. Working a 40 hour work week in fast food coming home to take care of my grandad who was dying but my friends still pestering me to hang out and drink and I wanted to cause i was still young. They hadn't expierenced anything like it so they didnt understand and it was driving a wedge between us.

I mean I'm stressed right now cause I'm barely scraping by financially but it was no ways as rough of a feeling as that.

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SomeLikeItHoth
11/07/23 7:30:21 AM
#19:


For most men its fine but this dude is the king of Azeroth he needs to hold it together.

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pegusus123456
11/07/23 7:37:43 AM
#20:


SomeLikeItHoth posted...
For most men its fine but this dude is the king of Azeroth he needs to hold it together.
King of those idiots down in the Eastern Kingdoms, you mean.

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MC_BatCommander
11/07/23 7:42:03 AM
#21:


Well I would say that characters who don't show emotion tend to be pretty boring

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texanfan27
11/07/23 7:43:37 AM
#22:


Its a good scene, and Anduin compared to other main NPCs is younger and had being the leader of Allaince forced on him after his father was fel blasted.

considering what shadowlands did to him (making him a proto lich king), and what he did under it control, Im glad they are attacking it. Question is can they stick the landing.

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Zikten
11/07/23 7:49:20 AM
#23:


texanfan27 posted...
Its a good scene, and Anduin compared to other main NPCs is younger and had being the leader of Allaince forced on him after his father was fel blasted.

considering what shadowlands did to him (making him a proto lich king), and what he did under it control, Im glad they are attacking it. Question is can they stick the landing.
My hope is that by the end of the World Soul saga, he finds his way back to the Light and is worthy of leading the army of Light against the Void Lord's like is supposed to be his destiny someday as depicted in an old comic that had Old Man Anduin preparing for battle decades from now

I want there to be a moment in the World Soul Saga where Anduin forgives himself and summons the Ligjt once more in a victorius moment

But at the same time, part of me wishes he never fell. Before Shadowlands, I never believed Anduin could ever fall or be corrupted. I always saw him as basically being what Arthas could have been, had he not gone bad. Anduin was supposed to be the hero that Arthas failed to be

Shadowlands made me sad to see him fail. I hope after he gets back to the Light he never falls again
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texanfan27
11/07/23 7:51:44 AM
#24:


Zikten posted...
My hope is that by the end of the World Soul saga, he finds his way back to the Light and is worthy of leading the army of Light against the Void Lord's like is supposed to be his destiny someday as depicted in an old comic that had Old Man Anduin preparing for battle decades from now

I want there to be a moment in the World Soul Saga where Anduin forgives himself and summons the Ligjt once more in a victorius moment

But at the same time, part of me wishes he never fell. Before Shadowlands, I never believed Anduin could ever fall or be corrupted. I always saw him as basically being what Arthas could have been, had he not gone bad. Anduin was supposed to be the hero that Arthas failed to be

Shadowlands made me sad to see him fail. I hope after he gets back to the Light he never falls again

honestly, I think that void war is coming sooner than later. Likely next expansion with a name like Midnight, void feels likely.

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Gobstoppers12
11/07/23 7:55:19 AM
#25:


That cutscene on its own is pretty strong. The acting is awesome, and the animation is top-of-the-line masterclass stuff.

The issue people have with it is that Anduin basically got turbo-traumatized by Shadowlands' awful story choices, as well as the fact that WoW's writing team has been super invested in exploring feelings and trauma and shit lately.

Warcraft used to be about big, strong, honorable warriors doing what must be done and being badasses.

Some of the most 'emotional' scenes in WoW from the past involved beating the crap out of somebody in the mean time, whereas modern WoW has been more about self discovery and sadness.

Like... this is a good example of an emotional scene in WoW that does what people want it to do:

https://youtu.be/D1SdVC2mrz8?si=aM8Ey2q5lYTA64J4

It's about emotion, identity, etc. but it's also brutal as fuck.

Meanwhile, Anduin had a traumatic experience and then he fucked off and moped about it for five years, leaving behind his people and his comrades so he could sulk in self pity. Compared to most other great WoW characters (including his father Varian, one of the biggest badasses in a series full of badasses) who get shit done regardless of personal feelings, Anduin is particularly weak willed.

Hopefully this starts his redemption as a character.

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ai123
11/07/23 8:04:40 AM
#26:


He seems appropriately gruff, solitary, and near-monosyllabic. He's not exactly binging Ben & Jerry's in his dressing gown while watching romcoms, is he?

What is people's problem?

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Gobstoppers12
11/07/23 8:10:38 AM
#27:


ai123 posted...
What is people's problem?
He abandoned his people for five years so he could wallow in self pity and cry about getting mind controlled. He's the king of Stormwind but he'd rather cry about his trauma than lead his people.

Part of it is because the Shadowlands story just sucked bad, and people want to forget it ever happened, but Anduin's moping is a constant reminder.

The other part of it is that five years is a long time to cry about something you didn't even do willingly.

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NeonTentacles
11/07/23 8:11:16 AM
#28:


pegusus123456 posted...


LMAO

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ai123
11/07/23 8:16:37 AM
#29:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
He abandoned his people for five years so he could wallow in self pity and cry about getting mind controlled. He's the king of Stormwind but he'd rather cry about his trauma than lead his people.

Part of it is because the Shadowlands story just sucked bad, and people want to forget it ever happened, but Anduin's moping is a constant reminder.

The other part of it is that five years is a long time to cry about something you didn't even do willingly.
So people want the character to be written differently. They don't like him.

Rather than saying that depicting emotion is bad.

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Gobstoppers12
11/07/23 8:20:24 AM
#30:


ai123 posted...
So people want the character to be written differently. They don't like him.

Rather than saying that depicting emotion is bad.
Yeah, not sure why TC worded it the way they did, but it's not an issue of men showing emotion. It's an issue of this particular character being exceptionally mopey lol

The scene itself is very well executed, but the source of his trauma is kind of the elephant in the room.

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darkace77450
11/07/23 8:26:43 AM
#31:


Strip emotion away from fictional characters and what's left? Power fantasy and fan service? Yeah, pass. Give me human characters with human emotions.
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ToteAll
11/07/23 10:15:01 AM
#32:


Gobstoppers12 posted...
Yeah, not sure why TC worded it the way they did, but it's not an issue of men showing emotion. It's an issue of this particular character being exceptionally mopey lol

The scene itself is very well executed, but the source of his trauma is kind of the elephant in the room.

Also the complete mystery of what the fuck he actually did that was so awful in the first place.
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Gobstoppers12
11/07/23 12:09:06 PM
#33:


ToteAll posted...
Also the complete mystery of what the fuck he actually did that was so awful in the first place.
Yeah, like... the writers really want us to think that being mind controlled into stealing infinity stones should be a good reason to be a five year recluse with major PTSD.

The other thing is... we've already had two "Anduin soul searching" arcs. He ran off on his own in Pandaria to seek peace or whatever, then in Legion he had a whole "somber wanderer" phase after his father got disenchanted.

Hasn't he found his soul by now? I mean come on, dude, he's wandered as much as Chen Stormstout at this point.

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ModernPost
11/07/23 12:11:27 PM
#34:


majin_nemesis posted...
They don't mock men either
That's what the topic is about, man.

So frustrating when people lack basic reading skills.

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Ruvan22
11/07/23 12:42:15 PM
#35:


ToteAll posted...
Also the complete mystery of what the fuck he actually did that was so awful in the first place.

Gobstoppers12 posted...
Yeah, like... the writers really want us to think that being mind controlled into stealing infinity stones should be a good reason to be a five year recluse with major PTSD.

The other thing is... we've already had two "Anduin soul searching" arcs. He ran off on his own in Pandaria to seek peace or whatever, then in Legion he had a whole "somber wanderer" phase after his father got disenchanted.

Hasn't he found his soul by now? I mean come on, dude, he's wandered as much as Chen Stormstout at this point.

There's context that explains *what he did* - a missable cutscene at the very end of SL

It shows Sylvannas carrying out her infinite sentence in maw and hearing someone approach, realizes it's Anduin. She (like a lot of people in the thread) assume he's feeling guilt over being mind controlled but he answers he's feeling guilt over enjoying some of the things he did while mind controlled and thus worries if he calls on the light it won't answer.

I agree the "forced to do bad things and feeling guilt" trope is both overdone and wouldn't have added to his growth.

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Ruvan22
11/07/23 12:46:39 PM
#36:


Zikten posted...
My hope is that by the end of the World Soul saga, he finds his way back to the Light and is worthy of leading the army of Light against the Void Lord's like is supposed to be his destiny someday as depicted in an old comic that had Old Man Anduin preparing for battle decades from now

I want there to be a moment in the World Soul Saga where Anduin forgives himself and summons the Ligjt once more in a victorius moment

But at the same time, part of me wishes he never fell. Before Shadowlands, I never believed Anduin could ever fall or be corrupted. I always saw him as basically being what Arthas could have been, had he not gone bad. Anduin was supposed to be the hero that Arthas failed to be

Shadowlands made me sad to see him fail. I hope after he gets back to the Light he never falls again

I actually liked the grey area they left him in (see above post) - which makes the cinematic in the first post even more relevant
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Rai_Jin
11/07/23 12:48:27 PM
#37:


no emotion doesn't make for good stories.

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Gobstoppers12
11/07/23 12:49:44 PM
#38:


Ruvan22 posted...
he's feeling guilt over enjoying some of the things he did while mind controlled
Either way, he was mind controlled to do bad things and mind controlled to enjoy them. It just comes across as whiny and weak when it takes him 5 years to get over that.

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Shamino
11/07/23 12:58:14 PM
#39:


https://youtu.be/mB-yuG3KFeA?si=8cVeEADkOSvrfhb6

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majin_nemesis
11/07/23 1:23:44 PM
#40:


NatsuSama posted...
Ya, that definitely isn't true. At least here in the states.

The attitude of seeing men being emotional is improving a lil, but definitely is not something widely accepted for mental health. It's often seen as "less manly" and I'd willing go to go even farther to say it contributes to some of these mass shootings and the high correlation of male mass shooters in the states. Suicide rates are also higher in men for a very clear reason.

Woman are more likely to talk about how they feel since there's less of a stigma when they do it.
unless you live in like the 1940s, it's very okay for men to display emotion, there's several badass male characters that display emotion and people like those characters just look at john wick he display a lot of emotion in the movies and he's a badass character
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Guide
11/07/23 1:28:47 PM
#41:


majin_nemesis posted...
unless you live in like the 1940s, it's very okay for men to display emotion, there's several badass male characters that display emotion and people like those characters just look at john wick he display a lot of emotion in the movies and he's a badass character

I'm inclined to trust what the dudes most afflicted by the issue are saying. It's not like that where I live, but I live in a deep blue area of NJ. They could live in Texas for all I know.


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majin_nemesis
11/07/23 1:37:40 PM
#42:


Guide posted...
I'm inclined to trust what the dudes most afflicted by the issue are saying. It's not like that where I live, but I live in a deep blue area of NJ. They could live in Texas for all I know.
it's been very okay for men to show emotion for a long time not sure why now suddenly it isn't again,people need to stop listening to the right wing"alpha males" on youtube
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Guide
11/07/23 1:39:14 PM
#43:


majin_nemesis posted...
it's been very okay for men to show emotion for a long time not sure why now suddenly it isn't again,people need to stop listening to the "alpha males" on youtube

Literally no one talking about it here is listening to tate or whomever. Pull your head out.

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NatsuSama
11/07/23 1:39:46 PM
#44:


majin_nemesis posted...
unless you live in like the 1940s, it's very okay for men to display emotion, there's several badass male characters that display emotion and people like those characters just look at john wick he display a lot of emotion in the movies and he's a badass character
Characters in movies doesn't change in the real world men being emotional is not celebrated and welcomed as much as it is for woman. Even in movies those men aren't celebrated unless they look a certain way.

It is just a straight up lie that men being emotional is just as much as accepted in today's society as woman being emotional. Suicide rates in particular have much to do with men's mental health going ignored and the stigma around men being comfortable enough to share their feelings. Especially those who love to claim its totally a non issue.

That isn't to argue men shouldn't share their emotions. My post is saying society most definitely doesn't welcome it as much, and is slowly improving on that problem. John Wick in some fictional series doesn't reflect the general reality of suicide rate victims and mass shooters statistically being men... and mental health being a common theme.

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Torgo
11/07/23 1:45:09 PM
#45:


Like everything, it depends on how it's done.

Also, traditionally men displayed emotion in even the most conservative classic literature: especially anger, jealousy, outrage, etc...

TC, I think you mean emotions like empathy, sadness, joy, and emotions not often associated with hyper-masculine stereotypes.

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majin_nemesis
11/07/23 1:45:18 PM
#46:


NatsuSama posted...
Characters in movies doesn't change in the real world men being emotional is not celebrated and welcomed as much as it is for woman. Even in movies those men aren't celebrated unless they look a certain way.

It is just a straight up lie that men being emotional is just as much as accepted in today's society as woman being emotional. Suicide rates in particular have much to do with men's mental health and the stigma around men being comfortable enough to share their feelings.

That isn't to argue men shouldn't share their emotions. My post is saying society most definitely doesn't welcome it as much, amd is slowly improving on that problem. John Wick in some fictional series doesn't reflect the general reality.
i talked about movies because this topic is about male characters in fiction and even in reality it's okay for men to show emotion and even if people don't accept it show it anyway, push emotion into them until they have no choice but accept it, society doesn't accept anything it simply sees it so much that it stops caring about it, 90% of what is shown in movies now wasn't accepted years ago but they kept pushing and now it's normal
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pauIie
11/07/23 1:47:58 PM
#47:


one of red dead 2's best scenes is an emotional one. you know the one. arthur morgan is one of the best video protagonists ever imo.

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NatsuSama
11/07/23 1:49:51 PM
#48:


majin_nemesis posted...
i talked about movies because this topic is about male characters in fiction and even in reality it's okay for men to show emotion and even if people don't accept it show it anyway, push emotion into them until they have no choice but accept it, society doesn't accept anything it simply sees it so much that it stops caring about it, 90% of what is shown in movies now wasn't accepted years ago but they kept pushing and now it's normal
You say you are talking about movies yet in the same breath push or imply a lie that in real life men showing emotions is widely accepted just as much as woman.

Your argument about celebrities in fiction showing emotion is not a reflection of reality and the suicide rates literally skewing towards being mostly men.

No one has argued it hasn't gotten better. But better is a low bar given what the suicide rate is compared to woman.

Things getting better =/= men being emotional is widely accepted and just as much as woman.
John Wick being emotional in a fictional movie =/= non celebrities being emotional is accepted in real life just as much as woman are accepted in real life.

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majin_nemesis
11/07/23 1:58:13 PM
#49:


NatsuSama posted...
You say you are talking about movies yet in the same breath push a lie that in real life men showing emotions is widely accepted.

Your argument about celebrities in fiction showing emotion is not a reflection of reality and the suicide rates literally skewing towards being mostly men.

Things getting better =/= men being emotional is widely accepted and just as much as woman.
John Wick being emotional in a fictional movie =/= non celebrities being emotional is accepted in real life.
first of all read the topic title second it's more accepted then you want it to be,again it's okay to show emotion,people are more willing to accept it then you think, the problem with men it's that men don't want to show emotion it has nothing to do with other people they don't want to accept their own emotions,it's men that have to accept themselves as vulnerable,it has nothing to do with society, society accepts it pretty well

also about the suicide rates, men are better at killing themselves then woman are, woman usually go with less violent ways like taking a bunch of pills which has a better rate of survival then men who are more likely to shoot themselves or chose more violent methods , you should check suicide attempts rates not actual suicide rates
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Guide
11/07/23 2:00:26 PM
#50:


majin_nemesis posted...
first of all read the topic title second it's more accepted then you want it to be,again it's okay to show emotion,people are more willing to accept it then you think, the problem with men it's that men don't want to show emotion it has nothing to do with other people they don't want to accept their own emotions,it's men that have to accept themselves as vulnerable,it has nothing to do with society, society accepts it pretty well

Please wipe your source.

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