Current Events > The Justice League vs Every Final Fantasy Protaganist

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TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 6:20:29 PM #101:	ellis123 posted... Her bracelets don't do crap all against magic Yeah, I was conflating those along with her lasso and shield's abilities <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976751427] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>ellis123 posted... </cite><quote>Her bracelets don't do crap all against magic</quote>Yeah, I was conflating those along with her lasso and shield's abilities</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 10/19/23 6:25:37 PM #102:	TheSavageDragon posted... It's amusing how you've just stayed quiet until you finally spotted a gotcha moment. Wut I responded to your reply to me... And it wasn't a Gotcha it was an open question TheSavageDragon posted... You're right. I know TheSavageDragon posted... But let's take the thing you were initially responding to...the fact that it's stupid to assume the JL would possess resistances similar to FF bosses. I agree. It's stupid to claim anyone in the Justice League would randomly have unspecified abilities that unrelated Final Fantasy Characters have. Just like it would be stupid to claim that Tifa also has all of Martian Man Hunters powers or that Barrett is immune to Kyrptonians and just that it never came up. That line of thinking is pure fanboy and destroys the conversation. It's basically just refusing to join in or think. So I called it out. If you wanna claim stuff wouldn't work you need to do more than just declare it or else you're a fanboy. Batman can't be immune to status magic effects because Seymour Flux was immune to status magic effects. That's a non-sequitur. Argue that he would have time to plan by sacrificing Green Lantern as a pawn and then get his Bat Anti-Petrify spray or something. Something that builds discussion --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:976751522] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>It's amusing how you've just stayed quiet until you finally spotted a gotcha moment.</quote>WutI responded to your reply to me...And it wasn't a Gotcha it was an open questionTheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>You're right.</quote>I knowTheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>But let's take the thing you were initially responding to...the fact that it's stupid to assume the JL would possess resistances similar to FF bosses.</quote>I agree.It's stupid to claim anyone in the Justice League would randomly have unspecified abilities that unrelated Final Fantasy Characters have.Just like it would be stupid to claim that Tifa also has all of Martian Man Hunters powers or that Barrett is immune to Kyrptonians and just that it never came up. That line of thinking is pure fanboy and destroys the conversation. It's basically just refusing to join in or think.So I called it out.If you wanna claim stuff wouldn't work you need to do more than just declare it or else you're a fanboy. Batman can't be immune to status magic effects because Seymour Flux was immune to status magic effects. That's a non-sequitur. Argue that he would have time to plan by sacrificing Green Lantern as a pawn and then get his Bat Anti-Petrify spray or something. Something that builds discussion </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 6:35:32 PM #103:	UnfairRepresent posted... Wut I responded to your reply to me... And it wasn't a Gotcha it was an open question I was referring in general. You never really added anything to the discussion you sought to have until you found points you could argue against. Sometimes with clearly uninformed takes like "Oh but the entire JL has a weakness to magic". UnfairRepresent posted... I agree. You're agreeing with yourself? Those were your words, not mine. I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but that's confusing. EDIT: You know what, I apologize. I hadn't read the first page of the topic all that well where you were engaging more often. Not going to call you out for things that aren't even true. My apologies. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976751701] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>WutI responded to your reply to me...And it wasn't a Gotcha it was an open question</quote>I was referring in general. You never really added anything to the discussion you sought to have until you found points you could argue against. Sometimes with clearly uninformed takes like "Oh but the entire JL has a weakness to magic".UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>I agree.</quote>You're agreeing with yourself? Those were your words, not mine. I mean, I agree with the sentiment, but that's confusing.EDIT: You know what, I apologize. I hadn't read the first page of the topic all that well where you were engaging more often. Not going to call you out for things that aren't even true. My apologies.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cuttin_in_farm 10/19/23 6:47:00 PM #104:	UnfairRepresent posted... I agree. It's stupid to claim anyone in the Justice League would randomly have unspecified abilities that unrelated Final Fantasy Characters have. Just like it would be stupid to claim that Tifa also has all of Martian Man Hunters powers or that Barrett is immune to Kyrptonians and just that it never came up. That line of thinking is pure fanboy and destroys the conversation. It's basically just refusing to join in or think. So I called it out. If you wanna claim stuff wouldn't work you need to do more than just declare it or else you're a fanboy. Batman can't be immune to status magic effects because Seymour Flux was immune to status magic effects. That's a non-sequitur. Argue that he would have time to plan by sacrificing Green Lantern as a pawn and then get his Bat Anti-Petrify spray or something. Something that builds discussion FF casts uses petrify is better discussion to you? --- A show of kindness may not do much help, but a show of cruelty may do much harm. <cite>cuttin_in_farm posted [p:976751891] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>I agree.It's stupid to claim anyone in the Justice League would randomly have unspecified abilities that unrelated Final Fantasy Characters have.Just like it would be stupid to claim that Tifa also has all of Martian Man Hunters powers or that Barrett is immune to Kyrptonians and just that it never came up. That line of thinking is pure fanboy and destroys the conversation. It's basically just refusing to join in or think.So I called it out.If you wanna claim stuff wouldn't work you need to do more than just declare it or else you're a fanboy. Batman can't be immune to status magic effects because Seymour Flux was immune to status magic effects. That's a non-sequitur. Argue that he would have time to plan by sacrificing Green Lantern as a pawn and then get his Bat Anti-Petrify spray or something. Something that builds discussion</quote>FF casts uses petrify is better discussion to you? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cuttin_in_farm 10/19/23 6:50:31 PM #105:	Like, instead of stupid stuff that characters cant or never do, what about actual abilities. Lightning can canonically summon Odin. How does the league compare to summons? Clive can canonically summon/transform. I never played ff15, but Noctis can teleport and do crazy shit apparently. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. Not dumb stuff like Irvine casts stop and shoots Flash in the head. --- A show of kindness may not do much help, but a show of cruelty may do much harm. <cite>cuttin_in_farm posted [p:976751944] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Like, instead of stupid stuff that characters cant or never do, what about actual abilities. Lightning can canonically summon Odin. How does the league compare to summons? Clive can canonically summon/transform. I never played ff15, but Noctis can teleport and do crazy shit apparently. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. Not dumb stuff like Irvine casts stop and shoots Flash in the head. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 10/19/23 7:08:46 PM #106:	I like how you claim there's discussion to be had that's interesting while defending "That doesn't work because I want Justice League to win" But you were right the second time. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. So discuss. If you've a case for why Status Magic won't work then make it. But "It doesn't work on other unrelated characters so it won't work on the characters that I like" ain't it chief. "Batman can't be petrified because Seymour Flux can't" is equal to "Superman can't hurt any FF character because he can't hurt Mr. Mxyzptlk." Or as you said, if you feel you have nothing to contribute on that, then talk about something else. But "Nah that won't work because if it did my guys lose" is fanboyism and just providing absolutely nothing to the topic and I will call it out every time --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:976752252] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>I like how you claim there's discussion to be had that's interesting while defending "That doesn't work because I want Justice League to win"But you were right the second time. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. So discuss. If you've a case for why Status Magic won't work then make it. But "It doesn't work on other unrelated characters so it won't work on the characters that I like" ain't it chief."Batman can't be petrified because Seymour Flux can't" is equal to "Superman can't hurt any FF character because he can't hurt Mr. Mxyzptlk."Or as you said, if you feel you have nothing to contribute on that, then talk about something else. But "Nah that won't work because if it did my guys lose" is fanboyism and just providing absolutely nothing to the topic and I will call it out every time </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 7:13:11 PM #107:	cuttin_in_farm posted... Lightning can canonically summon Odin. How does the league compare to summons? They've dealt with gods and demi-gods on multiple occasions. Zantetsuken might be a threat to some JL members, but that gets kind of iffy seeing as FFXIII's Zantetsuken's success isn't based on RNG but a multiplier of Odin's physical stat along with the stagger gauge level. cuttin_in_farm posted... but Noctis can teleport and do crazy shit apparently. Haven't played the full game myself, but judging from the demo and parts I've seen at a friend's Noctis is a Nightcrawler that's able to use magic. Teleporters aren't all that rare in comics and Flash has actually outran a teleporter. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976752307] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>cuttin_in_farm posted... </cite><quote>Lightning can canonically summon Odin. How does the league compare to summons?</quote>They've dealt with gods and demi-gods on multiple occasions. Zantetsuken might be a threat to some JL members, but that gets kind of iffy seeing as FFXIII's Zantetsuken's success isn't based on RNG but a multiplier of Odin's physical stat along with the stagger gauge level.cuttin_in_farm posted... </cite><quote>but Noctis can teleport and do crazy shit apparently.</quote>Haven't played the full game myself, but judging from the demo and parts I've seen at a friend's Noctis is a Nightcrawler that's able to use magic. Teleporters aren't all that rare in comics and Flash has actually outran a teleporter.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:13:15 PM #108:	Superman is vunerable to magic, but the magic needs to be powerful. FF characters are in no way powerful enough to conjure something to take on a being like him lmao. Seriously, if the DC characters have gone up against all of these scenarios in their own universe, the scale of power in the FF universe would not be comparable. If someone in the DC universe could petrify, and Superman has withstood it, there is no way an FF character could come close to that scaling. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752308] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Superman is vunerable to magic, but the magic needs to be powerful. FF characters are in no way powerful enough to conjure something to take on a being like him lmao.Seriously, if the DC characters have gone up against all of these scenarios in their own universe, the scale of power in the FF universe would not be comparable.If someone in the DC universe could petrify, and Superman has withstood it, there is no way an FF character could come close to that scaling. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:14:08 PM #109:	Again, just to put it in pespective, pre-crisis Superman sneezed a galaxy away. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752324] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Again, just to put it in pespective, pre-crisis Superman sneezed a galaxy away. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ellis123 10/19/23 7:15:20 PM #110:	cuttin_in_farm posted... Like, instead of stupid stuff that characters cant or never do, what about actual abilities. Lightning can canonically summon Odin. How does the league compare to summons? Clive can canonically summon/transform. I never played ff15, but Noctis can teleport and do crazy shit apparently. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. Not dumb stuff like Irvine casts stop and shoots Flash in the head. Lighting eventually turns into a literal goddess, Odin being not exactly super relevant part of her total power. Part of the "crazy nonsense" that Noctis can do is flat out kill anyone (and it's the Yojimbo version of the whole affair: it works against anyone). The problem is that neither of those things actually mean anything, despite the fact that they take up the #1 and #2 strongest options that FF protags can bring to the table. Like, both of those things are abilities that much of the Justice League has had to deal with one or the other. For instance, The Flash had to deal with his literal death. As in he is dead, do not pass go. What did he do? He just outran it. He just ran so fast that everything else died. So, like, you can start with the premise of "Cloud has now stuck his Buster Sword into The Flash's heart, twisted it around, and then chopped him to bits" and it's still The Flash's victory: he just outruns it. Yes he was turned into literal giblets, but it's okay. He just outruns it. This is part of why the whole prospect is so dumb. Unless you radically, and I mean radically cull the abilities of the Justice League the entire idea of this being a debate is just absurd. And at some point it's just about how much you can cull from the Justice League rather than actually anything else. At the same time it's all down to a couple of power players rather than anything. Who cares if Firion or Bartz are there when several of the protags are literal gods/have the power of gods? Thus the prospect is not really so much a thought conjecture and more just a click-baity way to try and get people to post in a topic, something that seemingly always succeeds. --- "A shouted order to do something of dubious morality with an unpredictable outcome? Thweeet!" My FC is in my profile. <cite>ellis123 posted [p:976752349] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>cuttin_in_farm posted... </cite><quote>Like, instead of stupid stuff that characters cant or never do, what about actual abilities. Lightning can canonically summon Odin. How does the league compare to summons? Clive can canonically summon/transform. I never played ff15, but Noctis can teleport and do crazy shit apparently. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. Not dumb stuff like Irvine casts stop and shoots Flash in the head.</quote>Lighting eventually turns into a literal goddess, Odin being not exactly super relevant part of her total power. Part of the "crazy nonsense" that Noctis can do is flat out kill anyone (and it's the Yojimbo version of the whole affair: it works against anyone).The problem is that neither of those things actually mean anything, despite the fact that they take up the #1 and #2 strongest options that FF protags can bring to the table. Like, both of those things are abilities that much of the Justice League has had to deal with one or the other. For instance, The Flash had to deal with his literal death. As in he is dead, do not pass go. What did he do? He just outran it. He just ran so fast that everything else died. So, like, you can start with the premise of "Cloud has now stuck his Buster Sword into The Flash's heart, twisted it around, and then chopped him to bits" and it's still The Flash's victory: he just outruns it. Yes he was turned into literal giblets, but it's okay. He just outruns it.This is part of why the whole prospect is so dumb. Unless you radically, and I mean radically cull the abilities of the Justice League the entire idea of this being a debate is just absurd. And at some point it's just about how much you can cull from the Justice League rather than actually anything else. At the same time it's all down to a couple of power players rather than anything. Who cares if Firion or Bartz are there when several of the protags are literal gods/have the power of gods? Thus the prospect is not really so much a thought conjecture and more just a click-baity way to try and get people to post in a topic, something that seemingly always succeeds. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 10/19/23 7:19:51 PM #111:	Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this. I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone. If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late? if Batman had time to plan would he go and acquire the Fayth for himself with his endless funds --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:976752417] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this.I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone.If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late?if Batman had time to plan would he go and acquire the Fayth for himself with his endless funds </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 7:20:31 PM #112:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Superman is vunerable to magic, but the magic needs to be powerful. This is somewhat correct. The magic needs to be powerful when it is magic that magics up something physical. Like... say Lulu casts Fire on Superman. He is resistant to fire, so despite the fire being there because of magical reasons it would do little. But a spell like Stop or Doom would have effect on him all the same, no matter the magical strength of the caster. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976752421] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Superman is vunerable to magic, but the magic needs to be powerful.</quote>This is somewhat correct. The magic needs to be powerful when it is magic that magics up something physical. Like... say Lulu casts Fire on Superman. He is resistant to fire, so despite the fire being there because of magical reasons it would do little. But a spell like Stop or Doom would have effect on him all the same, no matter the magical strength of the caster.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:22:32 PM #113:	UnfairRepresent posted... Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this. I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone. If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late? Why? Because Zanmato worked on everyone in FF10? Why would you assume the same thing would happen to a DC character? That's like saying no one can withstand Hakai energy in Dragonball, except when they did. You can't scale an attack that's "supposed to kill" because you'll never know if you could scale that to universal proportions. Again, DC and Dragonball characters are at now multiversal levels. Why would one summon with a blade be able to take those beings down? Makes absolutely no sense, especially at the speed he runs. The guy wouldn't even be able to move before Supes or Flash decimates him on the spot. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752451] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this.I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone.If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late?</quote>Why? Because Zanmato worked on everyone in FF10? Why would you assume the same thing would happen to a DC character?That's like saying no one can withstand Hakai energy in Dragonball, except when they did. You can't scale an attack that's "supposed to kill" because you'll never know if you could scale that to universal proportions.Again, DC and Dragonball characters are at now multiversal levels. Why would one summon with a blade be able to take those beings down? Makes absolutely no sense, especially at the speed he runs. The guy wouldn't even be able to move before Supes or Flash decimates him on the spot. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 7:23:06 PM #114:	UnfairRepresent posted... Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this. I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone. If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late? That would require them consciously doing so and possibly discussing beforehand, meaning there's always a chance Martian Manhunter is able to pick on this with his telepathy and spread this knowledge among the league within seconds. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976752463] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this.I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone.If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late?</quote>That would require them consciously doing so and possibly discussing beforehand, meaning there's always a chance Martian Manhunter is able to pick on this with his telepathy and spread this knowledge among the league within seconds.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:26:25 PM #115:	TheSavageDragon posted... But a spell like Stop or Doom would have effect on him all the same, no matter the magical strength of the caster. Where are you getting this from? At what point will the magic be potent on a Godly being? You have to put into perspective of how powerful the being is. Imagine if an ant threw some paralysis powder at you. That powder being such a minimal, small AOE, that it can barely harm you. I'd wager that's the difference (Putting it lightly) between a FF character's magic pool and potential compared to Supermans durability. Just because you can cast a spell like slow doesn't mean it can effect every being in the universe. If that was the case, then by that logic you should be able to slow the whole universe down by how potent that magic would be. Again, Superman is beyond universal level. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752517] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>But a spell like Stop or Doom would have effect on him all the same, no matter the magical strength of the caster.</quote>Where are you getting this from? At what point will the magic be potent on a Godly being? You have to put into perspective of how powerful the being is.Imagine if an ant threw some paralysis powder at you. That powder being such a minimal, small AOE, that it can barely harm you. I'd wager that's the difference (Putting it lightly) between a FF character's magic pool and potential compared to Supermans durability. Just because you can cast a spell like slow doesn't mean it can effect every being in the universe.If that was the case, then by that logic you should be able to slow the whole universe down by how potent that magic would be. Again, Superman is beyond universal level. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ellis123 10/19/23 7:29:25 PM #116:	UnfairRepresent posted... Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this. I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone. If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late? It would largely be irrelevant. Much of the relevant part of the Justice League has come into contact with The Endless, which are the physical representations of natural forces. This, of course, includes Death. As Zanmato essentially is just inflicting true death we can attribute it to being under the subdomain of Death. Thus against characters who can go toe to toe with Death like Superman or The Flash Yojimbo's presence in the battle is meaningless, against characters like Wonder Woman who cannot exactly be killed his presence in the battle is meaningless (in Wonder Woman's case we could assume that she would have to take a bit of time to return, but it's not like that's exactly a relevant factor), etc. This all culminates with the Justice League coming out on top because the existence of a character who absolutely 100% can kill anything just isn't good enough. And that ignores the fact that Yojimbo's slash could actually be avoided (unlike Noctis' Ring of the Lucii, which is guaranteed to hit). --- "A shouted order to do something of dubious morality with an unpredictable outcome? Thweeet!" My FC is in my profile. <cite>ellis123 posted [p:976752562] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>Yojimbo is also a bit of a Dark Horse in this.I think any DC hero could take him in a straight fair-fight but if he did Zanmato he'd win instantly and kill everyone.If the FF Crew kept him back would the JL realize the threat and take him out first before it's too late?</quote>It would largely be irrelevant. Much of the relevant part of the Justice League has come into contact with The Endless, which are the physical representations of natural forces. This, of course, includes Death. As Zanmato essentially is just inflicting true death we can attribute it to being under the subdomain of Death.Thus against characters who can go toe to toe with Death like Superman or The Flash Yojimbo's presence in the battle is meaningless, against characters like Wonder Woman who cannot exactly be killed his presence in the battle is meaningless (in Wonder Woman's case we could assume that she would have to take a bit of time to return, but it's not like that's exactly a relevant factor), etc. This all culminates with the Justice League coming out on top because the existence of a character who absolutely 100% can kill anything just isn't good enough. And that ignores the fact that Yojimbo's slash could actually be avoided (unlike Noctis' Ring of the Lucii, which is guaranteed to hit). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
UnfairRepresent 10/19/23 7:31:34 PM #117:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Why? Because Zanmato worked on everyone in FF10? Why would you assume the same thing would happen to a DC character? That's like saying no one can withstand Hakai energy in Dragonball, except when they did. You can't scale an attack that's "supposed to kill" because you'll never know if you could scale that to universal proportions. Again, DC and Dragonball characters are at now multiversal levels. Why would one summon with a blade be able to take those beings down? Makes absolutely no sense, especially at the speed he runs. The guy wouldn't even be able to move before Supes or Flash decimates him on the spot. Because by your logic we could just go "Why would you assume all JL attacks would hurt and aren't just are the same as if your Str and MG stats are 1." I think it's safe to say abilities do what the abilities do regardless. Rather than randomly assuming Zanmato stops doing what it does when done to Batman. TheSavageDragon posted... That would require them consciously doing so and possibly discussing beforehand, meaning there's always a chance Martian Manhunter is able to pick on this with his telepathy and spread this knowledge among the league within seconds. It also goes both ways Would the FF guys go with the Yojimbo gambit? They'd have to have prior knowledge of how tough the JL is to consider stuff like that. It doesn't seem like something Yuna would do on the fly. I guess unless the FF Guys are being slaughtered and she's backed into a corner. --- ^ Hey now that's completely unfair! http://i.imgur.com/yPw05Ob.png <cite>UnfairRepresent posted [p:976752585] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Why? Because Zanmato worked on everyone in FF10? Why would you assume the same thing would happen to a DC character?That's like saying no one can withstand Hakai energy in Dragonball, except when they did. You can't scale an attack that's "supposed to kill" because you'll never know if you could scale that to universal proportions.Again, DC and Dragonball characters are at now multiversal levels. Why would one summon with a blade be able to take those beings down? Makes absolutely no sense, especially at the speed he runs. The guy wouldn't even be able to move before Supes or Flash decimates him on the spot.</quote>Because by your logic we could just go "Why would you assume all JL attacks would hurt and aren't just are the same as if your Str and MG stats are 1."I think it's safe to say abilities do what the abilities do regardless. Rather than randomly assuming Zanmato stops doing what it does when done to Batman.TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>That would require them consciously doing so and possibly discussing beforehand, meaning there's always a chance Martian Manhunter is able to pick on this with his telepathy and spread this knowledge among the league within seconds.</quote>It also goes both waysWould the FF guys go with the Yojimbo gambit? They'd have to have prior knowledge of how tough the JL is to consider stuff like that. It doesn't seem like something Yuna would do on the fly.I guess unless the FF Guys are being slaughtered and she's backed into a corner. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:36:34 PM #118:	UnfairRepresent posted... Because by your logic we could just go "Why would you assume all JL attacks would hurt and aren't just are the same as if your Str and MG stats are 1." I think it's safe to say abilities do what the abilities do regardless. Rather than randomly assuming Zanmato stops doing what it does when done to Batman. That's being disingenious. You know full well a punch from superman would take out a planet. I don't even know why I have to explain this. You're relying on possible "effects" of a character based in his own universe. Whilst a planetary punch, is still a planetary punch, regardless of a universe. You're putting a baseline on each and every spell and effect these characters possess, possibly putting them at God level of power, which is ridiculous. If that truly was the case, Lulu or Tidus should be able to stop the universe if their time magic abilities could affect a being that can literally influence universes with their power. There is no logic here. I didn't say Batman. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752659] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>Because by your logic we could just go "Why would you assume all JL attacks would hurt and aren't just are the same as if your Str and MG stats are 1."I think it's safe to say abilities do what the abilities do regardless. Rather than randomly assuming Zanmato stops doing what it does when done to Batman.</quote>That's being disingenious. You know full well a punch from superman would take out a planet. I don't even know why I have to explain this.You're relying on possible "effects" of a character based in his own universe. Whilst a planetary punch, is still a planetary punch, regardless of a universe.You're putting a baseline on each and every spell and effect these characters possess, possibly putting them at God level of power, which is ridiculous.If that truly was the case, Lulu or Tidus should be able to stop the universe if their time magic abilities could affect a being that can literally influence universes with their power. There is no logic here.I didn't say Batman. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VFalcone 10/19/23 7:38:42 PM #119:	TheSavageDragon posted... Correction, they fought DCAU Darkseid. He isn't the omniversal, able to blast people out of existence character DCAU Darkseid absolutely does have his Omega Beam and used it several times. Mostly against Superman. https://youtu.be/XYaOFgKeg6o https://youtu.be/wrG_c9rTshw Read what you're quoting. Half of the characters you're mentioning aren't in the DCAU JL series which I clearly mentioned. No Cassie, no Donna, no Hal, no Guy Alright, fair. and Kyle despite being in Superman TAS just plain doesn't exist in JL/JLU. This one is wrong though. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/1/AAb-t6AAE88j.jpg Hal punching Sinestro through planets in IIRC First Flight has no bearing on DCAU John Stewart. Those movies are its own thing and not based in that particular universe Also fair I guess, if DC Animated means strictly animated series and JL/JLU. Even then the JLU in that show has like 100 people there. I just can't remember every one. More than enough to fill the gaps. Also, Ray Palmer, The Atom beats every FF character before they even know. DCAU has him too. <cite>VFalcone posted [p:976752694] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Correction, they fought DCAU Darkseid. He isn't the omniversal, able to blast people out of existence character</quote>DCAU Darkseid absolutely does have his Omega Beam and used it several times. Mostly against Superman. https://youtu.be/XYaOFgKeg6ohttps://youtu.be/wrG_c9rTshw<quote>Read what you're quoting. Half of the characters you're mentioning aren't in the DCAU JL series which I clearly mentioned. No Cassie, no Donna, no Hal, no Guy</quote>Alright, fair. <quote>and Kyle despite being in Superman TAS just plain doesn't exist in JL/JLU.</quote>This one is wrong though.https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/1/1/AAb-t6AAE88j.jpg <quote>Hal punching Sinestro through planets in IIRC First Flight has no bearing on DCAU John Stewart. Those movies are its own thing and not based in that particular universe</quote>Also fair I guess, if DC Animated means strictly animated series and JL/JLU. Even then the JLU in that show has like 100 people there. I just can't remember every one. More than enough to fill the gaps. Also, Ray Palmer, The Atom beats every FF character before they even know. DCAU has him too. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 7:39:36 PM #120:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Where are you getting this from? The fact that things like mind control, illusion,... spells have been shown to work on him before? Spells that don't conjure something physical to attack him with. He has straight-up stated multiple times he has little to no defense against magic. Wonder Woman's sword is able to cut him because of its enchantments and it's not like DC's Greek pantheon are the universal beings you claim Superman to be. I could easily ask you the same question in that where are you getting it from that he's able to no-sell those types of magic? His physical strength and defense which has been shown to not apply in those cases? <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976752710] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Where are you getting this from?</quote>The fact that things like mind control, illusion,... spells have been shown to work on him before? Spells that don't conjure something physical to attack him with. He has straight-up stated multiple times he has little to no defense against magic. Wonder Woman's sword is able to cut him because of its enchantments and it's not like DC's Greek pantheon are the universal beings you claim Superman to be.I could easily ask you the same question in that where are you getting it from that he's able to no-sell those types of magic? His physical strength and defense which has been shown to not apply in those cases?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:41:30 PM #121:	TheSavageDragon posted... The fact that things like mind control, illusion,... spells have been shown to work on him before? Spells that don't conjure something physical to attack him with. He has straight-up stated multiple times he has little to no defense against magic. Wonder Woman's sword is able to cut him because of its enchantments and it's not like DC's Greek pantheon are the universal beings you claim Superman to be. I could easily ask you the same question in that where are you getting it from that he's able to no-sell those types of magic? His physical strength and defense which has been shown to not apply in those cases? Because to hurt Superman with magic, the magic has to be potent. Thus a character from the DC universe has a much higher chance of harming him, due to being overpowered as fuck, compared to Final Fantasy characters who are not even in the same league as the DC universe, not even close. Like seriously, how are we debating that FF characters even have a chance against Multiversal beings this is ridiculous lol. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752744] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>The fact that things like mind control, illusion,... spells have been shown to work on him before? Spells that don't conjure something physical to attack him with. He has straight-up stated multiple times he has little to no defense against magic. Wonder Woman's sword is able to cut him because of its enchantments and it's not like DC's Greek pantheon are the universal beings you claim Superman to be.I could easily ask you the same question in that where are you getting it from that he's able to no-sell those types of magic? His physical strength and defense which has been shown to not apply in those cases?</quote>Because to hurt Superman with magic, the magic has to be potent. Thus a character from the DC universe has a much higher chance of harming him, due to being overpowered as fuck, compared to Final Fantasy characters who are not even in the same league as the DC universe, not even close.Like seriously, how are we debating that FF characters even have a chance against Multiversal beings this is ridiculous lol. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VFalcone 10/19/23 7:50:27 PM #122:	When two guys from the DCAU fight from a disagreement: https://youtu.be/dxOl5X5glbQ <cite>VFalcone posted [p:976752889] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>When two guys from the DCAU fight from a disagreement:https://youtu.be/dxOl5X5glbQ</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 7:51:49 PM #123:	VFalcone posted... DCAU Darkseid absolutely does have his Omega Beam and used it several times. Mostly against Superman. Dan Turpin's death is the only time it was actually shown to be successful though. Granted, that's likely due to it being a cartoon and not wanting to kill off one of its major characters. Point still stands that DCAU Darkseid is nowhere near comic Darkseid. Comic Darkseid would scrape DCAU Darkseid of his boot while he's sitting on someone's couch. VFalcone posted... This one is wrong though. Forgot all about that. The only thing I could recall was Hal showing up briefly due to alternate universe shenanigans. Anyway, the point is moot as the topic's about the JL and Kyle was never on the League. VFalcone posted... Also fair I guess, if DC Animated means strictly animated series and JL/JLU. Even then the JLU in that show has like 100 people there. I just can't remember every one. More than enough to fill the gaps. No, DC Animated doesn't strictly mean that. That is the term for all of DC's animations. DCAU is a term specifically for the universe in which Batman TAS, Superman TAS, JL/JLU, Static Shock and The Zeta Project take place. And yeah, the JLU has an insanely huge roster. A great deal of them wouldn't do much against FF characters though, Outside of the core team you have people like Shazam, Fate and Supergirl, but other than that you get to characters like Huntress, Green Arrow, The Question and Two Gun Kid which don't provide much of a threat in combat against FF characters which always end up fighting a demi-god. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976752908] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>VFalcone posted... </cite><quote>DCAU Darkseid absolutely does have his Omega Beam and used it several times. Mostly against Superman.</quote>Dan Turpin's death is the only time it was actually shown to be successful though. Granted, that's likely due to it being a cartoon and not wanting to kill off one of its major characters.Point still stands that DCAU Darkseid is nowhere near comic Darkseid. Comic Darkseid would scrape DCAU Darkseid of his boot while he's sitting on someone's couch.VFalcone posted... </cite><quote>This one is wrong though.</quote>Forgot all about that. The only thing I could recall was Hal showing up briefly due to alternate universe shenanigans. Anyway, the point is moot as the topic's about the JL and Kyle was never on the League.VFalcone posted... </cite><quote>Also fair I guess, if DC Animated means strictly animated series and JL/JLU. Even then the JLU in that show has like 100 people there. I just can't remember every one. More than enough to fill the gaps.</quote>No, DC Animated doesn't strictly mean that. That is the term for all of DC's animations. DCAU is a term specifically for the universe in which Batman TAS, Superman TAS, JL/JLU, Static Shock and The Zeta Project take place. And yeah, the JLU has an insanely huge roster. A great deal of them wouldn't do much against FF characters though, Outside of the core team you have people like Shazam, Fate and Supergirl, but other than that you get to characters like Huntress, Green Arrow, The Question and Two Gun Kid which don't provide much of a threat in combat against FF characters which always end up fighting a demi-god.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 7:51:53 PM #124:	VFalcone posted... When two guys from the DCAU fight from a disagreement: https://youtu.be/dxOl5X5glbQ Ah there we go, Shazam, magical powered, still loses. But somehow people think Lulu's firespell would do something. lol >_> --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976752911] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>VFalcone posted... </cite><quote>When two guys from the DCAU fight from a disagreement:https://youtu.be/dxOl5X5glbQ</quote>Ah there we go, Shazam, magical powered, still loses. But somehow people think Lulu's firespell would do something. lol >_> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 7:55:15 PM #125:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Because to hurt Superman with magic, the magic has to be potent. Thus a character from the DC universe has a much higher chance of harming him, due to being overpowered as fuck, compared to Final Fantasy characters who are not even in the same league as the DC universe, not even close. Like seriously, how are we debating that FF characters even have a chance against Multiversal beings this is ridiculous lol. Show me one single example that proves a non physical magical attack has to be really potent in order to have an effect on Superman. Just one. SpiritSephiroth posted... Ah there we go, Shazam, magical powered, still loses. But somehow people think Lulu's firespell would do something. lol >_> ....what? Try reading my initial reply to you again. I'll wait. It's clear you're arguing against something I've never even stated to begin with. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976752968] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Because to hurt Superman with magic, the magic has to be potent. Thus a character from the DC universe has a much higher chance of harming him, due to being overpowered as fuck, compared to Final Fantasy characters who are not even in the same league as the DC universe, not even close.Like seriously, how are we debating that FF characters even have a chance against Multiversal beings this is ridiculous lol.</quote>Show me one single example that proves a non physical magical attack has to be really potent in order to have an effect on Superman. Just one.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Ah there we go, Shazam, magical powered, still loses. But somehow people think Lulu's firespell would do something. lol >_></quote>....what? Try reading my initial reply to you again. I'll wait. It's clear you're arguing against something I've never even stated to begin with.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:02:46 PM #126:	TheSavageDragon posted... Show me one single example that proves a non physical magical attack has to be really potent in order to have an effect on Superman. Just one. Literally the post before this, and shazam is far above the levels of any FF character. TheSavageDragon posted... ..what? Try reading my initial reply to you again. I'll wait. It's clear you're arguing against something I've never even stated to begin with. Calm down, that post wasn't even directed at you?? --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753090] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Show me one single example that proves a non physical magical attack has to be really potent in order to have an effect on Superman. Just one.</quote>Literally the post before this, and shazam is far above the levels of any FF character.TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>..what? Try reading my initial reply to you again. I'll wait. It's clear you're arguing against something I've never even stated to begin with.</quote>Calm down, that post wasn't even directed at you?? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:07:04 PM #127:	Also I don't even know why we're debating magic in the first place since there are versions of Superman immune to it lmao https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/3/3/AAR0xcAAE885.jpg --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753158] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Also I don't even know why we're debating magic in the first place since there are versions of Superman immune to it lmaohttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/3/3/AAR0xcAAE885.jpg </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:10:21 PM #128:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/3/4/AAR0xcAAE886.jpg Another version of Superman BTW. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753212] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/3/4/AAR0xcAAE886.jpg Another version of Superman BTW. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 8:16:23 PM #129:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Literally the post before this, and shazam is far above the levels of any FF character. Do you know what non physical means? And that lightning is a physical thing? SpiritSephiroth posted... Calm down, that post wasn't even directed at you?? There is a single person in this topic that even mentioned Lulu casting a fire spell and that would be me. So how wouldn't I assume it wasn't directed at me when I was the only one mentioning anything of the sort in conjunction with the previous line being directed at me? SpiritSephiroth posted... Also I don't even know why we're debating magic in the first place since there are versions of Superman immune to it lmao And we're obviously discussing the main universe regular ass Superman. Not some alternate universe Superman as there are versions literally powered by magic. SpiritSephiroth posted... Another version of Superman BTW. Okay, now try doing that with a panel that obviously doesn't feature an out of universe Superman. I can post panels of Batman being a vampire and eating his villains, but people would take issue if I were to claim Batman is a vampire that eats his villains. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976753300] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Literally the post before this, and shazam is far above the levels of any FF character.</quote>Do you know what non physical means? And that lightning is a physical thing?SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Calm down, that post wasn't even directed at you??</quote>There is a single person in this topic that even mentioned Lulu casting a fire spell and that would be me. So how wouldn't I assume it wasn't directed at me when I was the only one mentioning anything of the sort in conjunction with the previous line being directed at me?SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Also I don't even know why we're debating magic in the first place since there are versions of Superman immune to it lmao</quote>And we're obviously discussing the main universe regular ass Superman. Not some alternate universe Superman as there are versions literally powered by magic.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Another version of Superman BTW.</quote>Okay, now try doing that with a panel that obviously doesn't feature an out of universe Superman. I can post panels of Batman being a vampire and eating his villains, but people would take issue if I were to claim Batman is a vampire that eats his villains.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:25:04 PM #130:	TheSavageDragon posted... Do you know what non physical means? And that lightning is a physical thing? Why are you being so specific? Running out of ways to figure out how to beat supes? >_> TheSavageDragon posted... There is a single person in this topic that even mentioned Lulu casting a fire spell and that would be me. So how wouldn't I assume it wasn't directed at me when I was the only one mentioning anything of the sort in conjunction with the previous line being directed at me? Its funny since I just said that out of jest. But I truly do believe that if you said anything about Lulu's fire being able to harm Superman then... TheSavageDragon posted... And we're obviously discussing the main universe regular ass Superman. Not some alternate universe Superman as there are versions literally powered by magic. Which one is the "main universe regular ass Superman"?? >_> Why are you restricting all of his alternate versions? There was no limit or rules to this topic. TheSavageDragon posted... Okay, now try doing that with a panel that obviously doesn't feature an out of universe Superman. I can post panels of Batman being a vampire and eating his villains, but people would take issue if I were to claim Batman is a vampire that eats his villains. Why is that not allowed? Again you're restricting Superman now because you know he is stupidly overpowered and not well written, which I agree with. Again, superman sneezes the galaxy away, instant win. I'm not saying he's a good written character, I'm just saying that you can't pitch FF characters against him. And I'm a huge FF fan. I don't understand why you're so adamant in defending something that's so black and white against an insane character, to the point where you're trying implement "rules" to the topic now because of how ridiculous his power scaling is. The fact that you've started to do that just shows how much you're reaching in order to get a win over him. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753439] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Do you know what non physical means? And that lightning is a physical thing?</quote>Why are you being so specific? Running out of ways to figure out how to beat supes? >_>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>There is a single person in this topic that even mentioned Lulu casting a fire spell and that would be me. So how wouldn't I assume it wasn't directed at me when I was the only one mentioning anything of the sort in conjunction with the previous line being directed at me?</quote>Its funny since I just said that out of jest. But I truly do believe that if you said anything about Lulu's fire being able to harm Superman then...TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>And we're obviously discussing the main universe regular ass Superman. Not some alternate universe Superman as there are versions literally powered by magic.</quote>Which one is the "main universe regular ass Superman"?? >_>Why are you restricting all of his alternate versions? There was no limit or rules to this topic.TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Okay, now try doing that with a panel that obviously doesn't feature an out of universe Superman. I can post panels of Batman being a vampire and eating his villains, but people would take issue if I were to claim Batman is a vampire that eats his villains.</quote>Why is that not allowed? Again you're restricting Superman now because you know he is stupidly overpowered and not well written, which I agree with. Again, superman sneezes the galaxy away, instant win.I'm not saying he's a good written character, I'm just saying that you can't pitch FF characters against him. And I'm a huge FF fan. I don't understand why you're so adamant in defending something that's so black and white against an insane character, to the point where you're trying implement "rules" to the topic now because of how ridiculous his power scaling is.The fact that you've started to do that just shows how much you're reaching in order to get a win over him. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VFalcone 10/19/23 8:27:31 PM #131:	TheSavageDragon posted... And yeah, the JLU has an insanely huge roster. A great deal of them wouldn't do much against FF characters though, Outside of the core team you have people like Shazam, Fate and Supergirl, but other than that you get to characters like Huntress, Green Arrow, The Question and Two Gun Kid which don't provide much of a threat in combat against FF characters which always end up fighting a demi-god. What about Captain Atom though? https://youtu.be/0kffqSXcTOc And you don't think someone like Fire, Steel, or Red Tornado can handle the weaker people of FF teams? Which would be the vast majority of them... <cite>VFalcone posted [p:976753497] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>And yeah, the JLU has an insanely huge roster. A great deal of them wouldn't do much against FF characters though, Outside of the core team you have people like Shazam, Fate and Supergirl, but other than that you get to characters like Huntress, Green Arrow, The Question and Two Gun Kid which don't provide much of a threat in combat against FF characters which always end up fighting a demi-god.</quote>What about Captain Atom though?https://youtu.be/0kffqSXcTOcAnd you don't think someone like Fire, Steel, or Red Tornado can handle the weaker people of FF teams? Which would be the vast majority of them... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:29:10 PM #132:	https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/1/AAR0xcAAE89L.jpg "Oopsie! Bye bye FF!" Again, its stupid, but it happened. (You can argue here that a magical superpowered powder can affect him >_>) --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753529] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/5/1/AAR0xcAAE89L.jpg "Oopsie! Bye bye FF!"Again, its stupid, but it happened.(You can argue here that a magical superpowered powder can affect him >_>) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
cuttin_in_farm 10/19/23 8:32:53 PM #133:	UnfairRepresent posted... I like how you claim there's discussion to be had that's interesting while defending "That doesn't work because I want Justice League to win" But you were right the second time. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. So discuss. If you've a case for why Status Magic won't work then make it. But "It doesn't work on other unrelated characters so it won't work on the characters that I like" ain't it chief. "Batman can't be petrified because Seymour Flux can't" is equal to "Superman can't hurt any FF character because he can't hurt Mr. Mxyzptlk." Or as you said, if you feel you have nothing to contribute on that, then talk about something else. But "Nah that won't work because if it did my guys lose" is fanboyism and just providing absolutely nothing to the topic and I will call it out every time You have to prove it can be done. This is what we know about Final Fantasy status effects: 1) They are never done by protagonist in canonical events or cutscenes (Nobody in FF8 casts reflect despite fighting a sorceress, Nobody casts death or stop on any major threat, etc). Prove the characters even have the ability to canonically use these spells. 2) The spells dont work on enemies too strong. This is not limited to bosses. But primarily is for bosses. Theres no in game reason given for why you cant cast Doom on Kuja. But hes immune. Batman, a normal guy may be susceptible. But its logical to draw the correlation to somethings innate strength or level. Super Man or Wonder Woman would fit that description. Prove that a character like Rufus can resist debilitating spells but someone like Martian Manhunter or Flash cant. When both can phase through physical matter. 3) Last but not least, explain why its presumed that characters would even be able to land these attacks from a speed standpoint. Majority of FF characters are slow compared to the League. We know this by how long it takes them to traverse world maps. Most Final Fantasy games have some sort of urgency sequence. Where they are not shown to be fast at all. Being completely generous, even casting spells takes time. Flash by himself will simply blitz every single one of them. Prove that spells would even land on the faster members. Let alone be effective Like, only four characters are even relevant from FF. Everyone else is prone to dying from falling plates and shit. Half of the FF2 cast legit dies to mundane, basic stuff lmao. --- A show of kindness may not do much help, but a show of cruelty may do much harm. <cite>cuttin_in_farm posted [p:976753594] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>I like how you claim there's discussion to be had that's interesting while defending "That doesn't work because I want Justice League to win"But you were right the second time. Theres discussion to be had thats interesting. So discuss. If you've a case for why Status Magic won't work then make it. But "It doesn't work on other unrelated characters so it won't work on the characters that I like" ain't it chief."Batman can't be petrified because Seymour Flux can't" is equal to "Superman can't hurt any FF character because he can't hurt Mr. Mxyzptlk."Or as you said, if you feel you have nothing to contribute on that, then talk about something else. But "Nah that won't work because if it did my guys lose" is fanboyism and just providing absolutely nothing to the topic and I will call it out every time</quote>You have to prove it can be done. This is what we know about Final Fantasy status effects:1) They are never done by protagonist in canonical events or cutscenes (Nobody in FF8 casts reflect despite fighting a sorceress, Nobody casts death or stop on any major threat, etc). Prove the characters even have the ability to canonically use these spells. 2) The spells dont work on enemies too strong. This is not limited to bosses. But primarily is for bosses. Theres no in game reason given for why you cant cast Doom on Kuja. But hes immune. Batman, a normal guy may be susceptible. But its logical to draw the correlation to somethings innate strength or level. Super Man or Wonder Woman would fit that description.Prove that a character like Rufus can resist debilitating spells but someone like Martian Manhunter or Flash cant. When both can phase through physical matter. 3) Last but not least, explain why its presumed that characters would even be able to land these attacks from a speed standpoint. Majority of FF characters are slow compared to the League. We know this by how long it takes them to traverse world maps. Most Final Fantasy games have some sort of urgency sequence. Where they are not shown to be fast at all. Being completely generous, even casting spells takes time. Flash by himself will simply blitz every single one of them.Prove that spells would even land on the faster members. Let alone be effective Like, only four characters are even relevant from FF. Everyone else is prone to dying from falling plates and shit. Half of the FF2 cast legit dies to mundane, basic stuff lmao. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 8:38:50 PM #134:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Why are you being so specific? Running out of ways to figure out how to beat supes? >_> Because when someone makes the bold claim that Superman is somehow pretty much invulnerable to magic unless cast by an extremely powerful wizard that claim isn't made about characters that aren't written to be conventional Superman. SpiritSephiroth posted... Its funny since I just said that out of jest. But I truly do believe that if you said anything about Lulu's fire being able to harm Superman then... I didn't. It's literally in the very first reply I made to you. Try to keep up. SpiritSephiroth posted... Which one is the "main universe regular ass Superman"?? >_> If you don't know, why even make bold claims when you aren't knowledgeable on the subject? I mean, I get DC's history can be confusing as fuck. But any Superman fan knows what you mean by main universe, conventional Superman. Hint: They don't mean a bunch of alternate versions or Silver Age Superman. SpiritSephiroth posted... Why are you restricting all of his alternate versions? There was no limit or rules to this topic. Because conventional Superman isn't capable of what you're claiming of. Just like conventional Batman isn't a vampire that eats his villains. SpiritSephiroth posted... I'm not saying he's a good written character, I'm just saying that you can't pitch FF characters against him. And I'm a huge FF fan Same here. And I agree 100% with that statement. But that's not what you and I started to discuss. You made the claim that magic only affects Superman if extremely potent. Which isn't true in any way, shape or form. SpiritSephiroth posted... The fact that you've started to do that just shows how much you're reaching in order to get a win over him. .....yes, the person arguing in favor of the JL this entire time and has been tackling this match-up with different versions of DC characters obviously is looking to get a win over Superman... Again, the issue I take is with your non factual claim which you still haven't proven to be true. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976753692] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Why are you being so specific? Running out of ways to figure out how to beat supes? >_></quote>Because when someone makes the bold claim that Superman is somehow pretty much invulnerable to magic unless cast by an extremely powerful wizard that claim isn't made about characters that aren't written to be conventional Superman.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Its funny since I just said that out of jest. But I truly do believe that if you said anything about Lulu's fire being able to harm Superman then...</quote>I didn't. It's literally in the very first reply I made to you. Try to keep up.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Which one is the "main universe regular ass Superman"?? >_></quote>If you don't know, why even make bold claims when you aren't knowledgeable on the subject?I mean, I get DC's history can be confusing as fuck. But any Superman fan knows what you mean by main universe, conventional Superman. Hint: They don't mean a bunch of alternate versions or Silver Age Superman.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Why are you restricting all of his alternate versions? There was no limit or rules to this topic.</quote>Because conventional Superman isn't capable of what you're claiming of. Just like conventional Batman isn't a vampire that eats his villains.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>I'm not saying he's a good written character, I'm just saying that you can't pitch FF characters against him. And I'm a huge FF fan</quote>Same here. And I agree 100% with that statement. But that's not what you and I started to discuss. You made the claim that magic only affects Superman if extremely potent. Which isn't true in any way, shape or form.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>The fact that you've started to do that just shows how much you're reaching in order to get a win over him.</quote>.....yes, the person arguing in favor of the JL this entire time and has been tackling this match-up with different versions of DC characters obviously is looking to get a win over Superman...Again, the issue I take is with your non factual claim which you still haven't proven to be true.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:44:23 PM #135:	TheSavageDragon posted... Because when someone makes the bold claim that Superman is somehow pretty much invulnerable to magic unless cast by an extremely powerful wizard that claim isn't made about characters that aren't written to be conventional Superman. Literally look at the fight with Shazam. Do you think FF characters are at the level of Shazam? TheSavageDragon posted... I didn't. It's literally in the very first reply I made to you. Try to keep up. Forgive me for not remembers everything you're saying. I've been debunking your points throughout this topic so its just an afterthought for me >_> TheSavageDragon posted... If you don't know, why even make bold claims when you aren't knowledgeable on the subject? I mean, I get DC's history can be confusing as fuck. But any Superman fan knows what you mean by main universe, conventional Superman. Hint: They don't mean a bunch of alternate versions or Silver Age Superman. Answer the question? Which Superman? New 52? Age of Crisis? Platinum? Or the most recent? TheSavageDragon posted... Because conventional Superman isn't capable of what you're claiming of. Just like conventional Batman isn't a vampire that eats his villains. Doesn't matter which version. Topic didn't state any rules. Stop making them up now that you're in a corner. TheSavageDragon posted... Same here. And I agree 100% with that statement. But that's not what you and I started to discuss. You made the claim that magic only affects Superman if extremely potent. Which isn't true in any way, shape or form. Yes it is. If it isn't then any old magic user would be harming him constantly. And yes he has had times where magic users have hurt him, but again, there are versions of him that aren't affected. Superman is insanely strong when he needs to be, and he's not losing to an FF character. TheSavageDragon posted... .....yes, the person arguing in favor of the JL this entire time and has been tackling this match-up with different versions of DC characters obviously is looking to get a win over Superman... Again, the issue I take is with your non factual claim which you still haven't proven to be true. Okay. How about you go on the defensive for once. Which character and spell could kill Superman? --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753789] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Because when someone makes the bold claim that Superman is somehow pretty much invulnerable to magic unless cast by an extremely powerful wizard that claim isn't made about characters that aren't written to be conventional Superman.</quote>Literally look at the fight with Shazam. Do you think FF characters are at the level of Shazam?TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>I didn't. It's literally in the very first reply I made to you. Try to keep up.</quote>Forgive me for not remembers everything you're saying. I've been debunking your points throughout this topic so its just an afterthought for me >_>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>If you don't know, why even make bold claims when you aren't knowledgeable on the subject?I mean, I get DC's history can be confusing as fuck. But any Superman fan knows what you mean by main universe, conventional Superman. Hint: They don't mean a bunch of alternate versions or Silver Age Superman.</quote>Answer the question? Which Superman? New 52? Age of Crisis? Platinum? Or the most recent?TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Because conventional Superman isn't capable of what you're claiming of. Just like conventional Batman isn't a vampire that eats his villains.</quote>Doesn't matter which version. Topic didn't state any rules. Stop making them up now that you're in a corner.TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Same here. And I agree 100% with that statement. But that's not what you and I started to discuss. You made the claim that magic only affects Superman if extremely potent. Which isn't true in any way, shape or form.</quote>Yes it is. If it isn't then any old magic user would be harming him constantly. And yes he has had times where magic users have hurt him, but again, there are versions of him that aren't affected. Superman is insanely strong when he needs to be, and he's not losing to an FF character.TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>.....yes, the person arguing in favor of the JL this entire time and has been tackling this match-up with different versions of DC characters obviously is looking to get a win over Superman...Again, the issue I take is with your non factual claim which you still haven't proven to be true.</quote>Okay. How about you go on the defensive for once. Which character and spell could kill Superman? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 8:45:44 PM #136:	VFalcone posted... What about Captain Atom though? That's another powerhouse that slipped my mind. He's a major threat, probably even more so than some core members. His suit rupturing would be akin to a powerful Ultima spell with status effects on top of it. Really need to watch JLU again. The others you mentioned are kinda "meh" though. Fire isn't on the level of FF8's Ifrit and Balamb Garden had students beat his ass as a graduation exam. Steel's mind is more of threat than his armor and Red Tornado isn't something a bunch of FF parties haven't dealt with. A lot of them have dealt with wind elementals and mechanical beings alike. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976753810] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>VFalcone posted... </cite><quote>What about Captain Atom though?</quote>That's another powerhouse that slipped my mind. He's a major threat, probably even more so than some core members. His suit rupturing would be akin to a powerful Ultima spell with status effects on top of it. Really need to watch JLU again. The others you mentioned are kinda "meh" though. Fire isn't on the level of FF8's Ifrit and Balamb Garden had students beat his ass as a graduation exam. Steel's mind is more of threat than his armor and Red Tornado isn't something a bunch of FF parties haven't dealt with. A lot of them have dealt with wind elementals and mechanical beings alike.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 8:46:47 PM #137:	@UnfairRepresent Which DC timeline are we talking about here? --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976753833] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>@UnfairRepresent Which DC timeline are we talking about here? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 9:01:52 PM #138:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Literally look at the fight with Shazam. Why? You continue arguing against a point I never made. I'll bold it this time A MAGICAL SPELL THAT DOESN'T CONJURE A PHYSICAL ATTACK That's my initial statement, the thing you claimed to have debunked and yet have provided nothing but physical attacks like lightning. SpiritSephiroth posted... Forgive me for not remembers everything you're saying. I've been debunking your points throughout this topic so its just an afterthought for me >_> You haven't, not a single time. Because you're continuously arguing against things I've never even said. SpiritSephiroth posted... Answer the question? Which Superman? New 52? Age of Crisis? Platinum? Or the most recent? Half of those aren't even a thing. Conventional Superman being the way he's been written since the Bronze Age barring outlying events such as the time he was split into 2 beings with electrical powers. It nearly isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be SpiritSephiroth posted... Doesn't matter which version. Topic didn't state any rules. Stop making them up now that you're in a corner. Dear lord... Again, you're the one making the claim. I never was making any claim but taking issue with yours. Your claim is akin to claiming Superman is a murdering dictator because he did so in the Injustice universe. That's not who conventional Superman is and neither is the one you attribute this never seen before power to. SpiritSephiroth posted... Yes it is. If it isn't then any old magic user would be harming him constantly They are! As recent as last year Felix Faust landed an illusion spell on him. And unless Faust is working with some powerful entity he is low on the DC magic totem pole. SpiritSephiroth posted... Okay. How about you go on the defensive for once. Which character and spell could kill Superman? Again, you're trying to turn this into a thing I haven't been discussing with you. I've never made the claim a certain FF character would be able to kill Superman. I've made the counter claim in regards to yours that non physical magic affects Superman while magic conjuring a physical thing like fire or lighting doesn't or does very little. That's it. Because that's a thing that's been shown throughout the ages to work on any conventionally written Superman. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976754086] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Literally look at the fight with Shazam.</quote>Why? You continue arguing against a point I never made. I'll bold it this timeA MAGICAL SPELL THAT DOESN'T CONJURE A PHYSICAL ATTACKThat's my initial statement, the thing you claimed to have debunked and yet have provided nothing but physical attacks like lightning.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Forgive me for not remembers everything you're saying. I've been debunking your points throughout this topic so its just an afterthought for me >_></quote>You haven't, not a single time. Because you're continuously arguing against things I've never even said.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Answer the question? Which Superman? New 52? Age of Crisis? Platinum? Or the most recent?</quote>Half of those aren't even a thing. Conventional Superman being the way he's been written since the Bronze Age barring outlying events such as the time he was split into 2 beings with electrical powers. It nearly isn't as complicated as you're making it out to beSpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Doesn't matter which version. Topic didn't state any rules. Stop making them up now that you're in a corner.</quote>Dear lord... Again, you're the one making the claim. I never was making any claim but taking issue with yours. Your claim is akin to claiming Superman is a murdering dictator because he did so in the Injustice universe. That's not who conventional Superman is and neither is the one you attribute this never seen before power to.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Yes it is. If it isn't then any old magic user would be harming him constantly</quote>They are! As recent as last year Felix Faust landed an illusion spell on him. And unless Faust is working with some powerful entity he is low on the DC magic totem pole.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Okay. How about you go on the defensive for once. Which character and spell could kill Superman?</quote>Again, you're trying to turn this into a thing I haven't been discussing with you. I've never made the claim a certain FF character would be able to kill Superman. I've made the counter claim in regards to yours that non physical magic affects Superman while magic conjuring a physical thing like fire or lighting doesn't or does very little. That's it. Because that's a thing that's been shown throughout the ages to work on any conventionally written Superman.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 9:14:34 PM #139:	TheSavageDragon posted... Why? You continue arguing against a point I never made. I'll bold it this time A MAGICAL SPELL THAT DOESN'T CONJURE A PHYSICAL ATTACK That's my initial statement, the thing you claimed to have debunked and yet have provided nothing but physical attacks like lightning. The being is magical. He punched and uses lightning. Why is that any different from throwing a fireball if they're both magic oriented. You're literally arguing semantics to waste time. But here: https://www.quora.com/Has-Superman-DC-Comics-ever-beaten-anyone-whose-powers-were-magic TheSavageDragon posted... Half of those aren't even a thing. Conventional Superman being the way he's been written since the Bronze Age barring outlying events such as the time he was split into 2 beings with electrical powers. It nearly isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be https://character-level.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_(Pre-Crisis) https://www.comicbookwire.com/reading-order/dc/superman-new-52-version/ and I also meant golden age, not platinum >_> https://superman.fandom.com/wiki/Golden_Age TheSavageDragon posted... Dear lord... Again, you're the one making the claim. I never was making any claim but taking issue with yours. Your claim is akin to claiming Superman is a murdering dictator because he did so in the Injustice universe. That's not who conventional Superman is and neither is the one you attribute this never seen before power to. TheSavageDragon posted... They are! As recent as last year Felix Faust landed an illusion spell on him. And unless Faust is working with some powerful entity he is low on the DC magic totem pole. TheSavageDragon posted... Again, you're trying to turn this into a thing I haven't been discussing with you. I've never made the claim a certain FF character would be able to kill Superman. I've made the counter claim in regards to yours that non physical magic affects Superman while magic conjuring a physical thing like fire or lighting doesn't or does very little. That's it. Because that's a thing that's been shown throughout the ages to work on any conventionally written Superman. And again you've just restricted Superman to a "conventionally written Superman" This is stupid lol. I guess we're playing by your rules now. Define "conventionally written". Because nothing Superman does in the DC universe is "conventional" by subjective standards. Shooting eye beams? Blowing up planets? Pulling a chain of planets in space? You're just trying to dilute him to the point where he can be affected by FF magic. Whereas if this was a topic against Dragonball, you'd be sure as hell people would be pulling out the most insane versions of Superman to beat Goku (And rightly so, if there weren't any rules stated). --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976754285] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Why? You continue arguing against a point I never made. I'll bold it this timeA MAGICAL SPELL THAT DOESN'T CONJURE A PHYSICAL ATTACKThat's my initial statement, the thing you claimed to have debunked and yet have provided nothing but physical attacks like lightning.</quote>The being is magical. He punched and uses lightning. Why is that any different from throwing a fireball if they're both magic oriented. You're literally arguing semantics to waste time.But here:https://www.quora.com/Has-Superman-DC-Comics-ever-beaten-anyone-whose-powers-were-magicTheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Half of those aren't even a thing. Conventional Superman being the way he's been written since the Bronze Age barring outlying events such as the time he was split into 2 beings with electrical powers. It nearly isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be</quote>https://character-level.fandom.com/wiki/Superman_(Pre-Crisis)https://www.comicbookwire.com/reading-order/dc/superman-new-52-version/and I also meant golden age, not platinum >_>https://superman.fandom.com/wiki/Golden_AgeTheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Dear lord... Again, you're the one making the claim. I never was making any claim but taking issue with yours. Your claim is akin to claiming Superman is a murdering dictator because he did so in the Injustice universe. That's not who conventional Superman is and neither is the one you attribute this never seen before power to.</quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>They are! As recent as last year Felix Faust landed an illusion spell on him. And unless Faust is working with some powerful entity he is low on the DC magic totem pole.</quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Again, you're trying to turn this into a thing I haven't been discussing with you. I've never made the claim a certain FF character would be able to kill Superman. I've made the counter claim in regards to yours that non physical magic affects Superman while magic conjuring a physical thing like fire or lighting doesn't or does very little. That's it. Because that's a thing that's been shown throughout the ages to work on any conventionally written Superman.</quote>And again you've just restricted Superman to a "conventionally written Superman"This is stupid lol. I guess we're playing by your rules now. Define "conventionally written". Because nothing Superman does in the DC universe is "conventional" by subjective standards. Shooting eye beams? Blowing up planets? Pulling a chain of planets in space?You're just trying to dilute him to the point where he can be affected by FF magic. Whereas if this was a topic against Dragonball, you'd be sure as hell people would be pulling out the most insane versions of Superman to beat Goku (And rightly so, if there weren't any rules stated). </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 9:17:11 PM #140:	Again, if this was a topic about Superman vs Ultra Instinct Goku, I doubt people would be complaining about the different versions of Superman being used, because of the insane power scaling that would have to be considered. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976754328] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Again, if this was a topic about Superman vs Ultra Instinct Goku, I doubt people would be complaining about the different versions of Superman being used, because of the insane power scaling that would have to be considered. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ellis123 10/19/23 9:25:19 PM #141:	SpiritSephiroth posted... Again, if this was a topic about Superman vs Ultra Instinct Goku, I doubt people would be complaining about the different versions of Superman being used, because of the insane power scaling that would have to be considered. To be fair; some versions of Superman would cause some whining. For instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZluJbOUyFeU --- "A shouted order to do something of dubious morality with an unpredictable outcome? Thweeet!" My FC is in my profile. <cite>ellis123 posted [p:976754448] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Again, if this was a topic about Superman vs Ultra Instinct Goku, I doubt people would be complaining about the different versions of Superman being used, because of the insane power scaling that would have to be considered.</quote>To be fair; some versions of Superman would cause some whining.For instance:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZluJbOUyFeU </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SpiritSephiroth 10/19/23 9:30:34 PM #142:	ellis123 posted... To be fair; some versions of Superman would cause some whining. For instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZluJbOUyFeU He already causes whining lol, the writers at this point think of any weakness that would potentially beat him and write that out. --- https://imgur.com/a/6KBlCUI https://imgur.com/TpM5kyb https://imgur.com/ZzXmr8X https://imgur.com/a/9svV8Gn https://imgur.com/a/vTiJpz3 https://imgur.com/a/j8PIo7A <cite>SpiritSephiroth posted [p:976754528] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>ellis123 posted... </cite><quote>To be fair; some versions of Superman would cause some whining.For instance:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZluJbOUyFeU</quote>He already causes whining lol, the writers at this point think of any weakness that would potentially beat him and write that out. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ellis123 10/19/23 9:41:05 PM #143:	SpiritSephiroth posted... He already causes whining lol, the writers at this point think of any weakness that would potentially beat him and write that out. Haha, ye. That version is just the writers giving a giant middle finger to everything which makes it the stupidest, and best, version of Superman for this sort of nonsense. "What's his powers? He always wins and never loses. His weakness is that he only can recognize every possible thing to react to, but if something impossible happens he can just change reality so it was always possible." What a tosser. --- "A shouted order to do something of dubious morality with an unpredictable outcome? Thweeet!" My FC is in my profile. <cite>ellis123 posted [p:976754700] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>He already causes whining lol, the writers at this point think of any weakness that would potentially beat him and write that out.</quote>Haha, ye. That version is just the writers giving a giant middle finger to everything which makes it the stupidest, and best, version of Superman for this sort of nonsense."What's his powers? He always wins and never loses. His weakness is that he only can recognize every possible thing to react to, but if something impossible happens he can just change reality so it was always possible."What a tosser. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VFalcone 10/19/23 9:42:19 PM #144:	TheSavageDragon posted... Why? You continue arguing against a point I never made. I'll bold it this time A MAGICAL SPELL THAT DOESN'T CONJURE A PHYSICAL ATTACK That's my initial statement, the thing you claimed to have debunked and yet have provided nothing but physical attacks like lightning which supports the very thing I've been saying. He takes little to no damage from magic that conjures a physical attack. I am not the other guy but I just wanted to make clear that Shazam's Shazam! attack is magical. Magic in the form of lightning. That's why it hurts Superman so much. He can theoretically beat Superman by spamming Shazam!. But that's exactly why Superman had to take him out ASAP when he tried to do just that <cite>VFalcone posted [p:976754727] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Why? You continue arguing against a point I never made. I'll bold it this timeA MAGICAL SPELL THAT DOESN'T CONJURE A PHYSICAL ATTACKThat's my initial statement, the thing you claimed to have debunked and yet have provided nothing but physical attacks like lightning which supports the very thing I've been saying. He takes little to no damage from magic that conjures a physical attack.</quote>I am not the other guy but I just wanted to make clear that Shazam's Shazam! attack is magical. Magic in the form of lightning. That's why it hurts Superman so much. He can theoretically beat Superman by spamming Shazam!. But that's exactly why Superman had to take him out ASAP when he tried to do just that </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
squall567 10/19/23 9:44:19 PM #145:	End of LR Lightning will sweep the JL. Everybody else, not so much. <cite>squall567 posted [p:976754764] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>End of LR Lightning will sweep the JL. Everybody else, not so much.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 9:47:01 PM #146:	SpiritSephiroth posted... The being is magical. He punched and uses lightning. Why is that any different from throwing a fireball if they're both magic oriented. You're literally arguing semantics to waste time. I'm not. The fireball or lightning being magical in origin doesn't make them not be fire or lightning which Superman has defenses for. It's not suddenly a magical fire that's able to burn Superman because someone used a spell to conjure it. SpiritSephiroth posted... https://www.quora.com/Has-Superman-DC-Comics-ever-beaten-anyone-whose-powers-were-magic And we keep on arguing things we haven't been arguing. Superman has had a win over tons of magic users or magical beings. That's beside the point of you claiming magic needs to be highly potent for it to have an effect on him. SpiritSephiroth posted... and I also meant golden age, not platinum >_> Forgive me for not discerning you were referring to Silver Age Superman with terms that aren't used by fans like "Age Of Crisis". I mean, Silver Age Supes is Pre Crisis as shown by that link you posted so I don't get why you even would refer to that version as that. And I don't think you want to bring Golden Age Superman into this as that one is barely "more powerful than a locomotive" and can't even fly. SpiritSephiroth posted... And again you've just restricted Superman to a "conventionally written Superman" Because that's what you do in these sort of topics. You don't go "lol Superman speed blitzes and instantly murders everyone" as that is not what that character is known to do. But somehow you apply something from an alternate universe to every Superman ever. SpiritSephiroth posted... This is stupid lol. It is, because I can't tell if you're intentionally being dense or if this is just you. I mean...the very next sentence is a doozy. SpiritSephiroth posted... Define "conventionally written". Because nothing Superman does in the DC universe is "conventional" by subjective standards. I've done so before and I'd ask you to read it again, but we've established before that this is a problem for you. I could ask any other person slightly knowledgeable about Superman on this very board what a conventionally written Superman is, but somehow this is hard to grasp for you. So let's try to spell it out again. It doesn't mean he does things that aren't feasible in the real world. It means "This is how the character is generally to be written"...meaning he just doesn't go about killing people...or no-selling magical attacks. Silver Age Superman isn't a conventionally written Superman as he hasn't been like that in over 50 years, meaning most of his existence. New 52 is a conventionally written Superman with an outlier here and there like the Solar Flare ability or his relationship with Wonder Woman. Superman Prime isn't a conventionally written Superman as Superman generally doesn't spend a million years chilling in the sun. SpiritSephiroth posted... You're just trying to dilute him to the point where he can be affected by FF magic No, I'm just stating very real things from the very comics he appears in. Where he is regularly shown to be affected by magic. Meanwhile you think this is Death Battle where you can create some composite of the character that doesn't exist in order to prove a claim you made that doesn't apply to the vast majority of media featuring him out there. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976754813] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>The being is magical. He punched and uses lightning. Why is that any different from throwing a fireball if they're both magic oriented. You're literally arguing semantics to waste time.</quote>I'm not. The fireball or lightning being magical in origin doesn't make them not be fire or lightning which Superman has defenses for. It's not suddenly a magical fire that's able to burn Superman because someone used a spell to conjure it.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>https://www.quora.com/Has-Superman-DC-Comics-ever-beaten-anyone-whose-powers-were-magic</quote>And we keep on arguing things we haven't been arguing. Superman has had a win over tons of magic users or magical beings. That's beside the point of you claiming magic needs to be highly potent for it to have an effect on him.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>and I also meant golden age, not platinum >_></quote>Forgive me for not discerning you were referring to Silver Age Superman with terms that aren't used by fans like "Age Of Crisis". I mean, Silver Age Supes is Pre Crisis as shown by that link you posted so I don't get why you even would refer to that version as that. And I don't think you want to bring Golden Age Superman into this as that one is barely "more powerful than a locomotive" and can't even fly.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>And again you've just restricted Superman to a "conventionally written Superman"</quote>Because that's what you do in these sort of topics. You don't go "lol Superman speed blitzes and instantly murders everyone" as that is not what that character is known to do. But somehow you apply something from an alternate universe to every Superman ever.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>This is stupid lol.</quote>It is, because I can't tell if you're intentionally being dense or if this is just you. I mean...the very next sentence is a doozy.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>Define "conventionally written". Because nothing Superman does in the DC universe is "conventional" by subjective standards.</quote>I've done so before and I'd ask you to read it again, but we've established before that this is a problem for you. I could ask any other person slightly knowledgeable about Superman on this very board what a conventionally written Superman is, but somehow this is hard to grasp for you.So let's try to spell it out again.It doesn't mean he does things that aren't feasible in the real world. It means "This is how the character is generally to be written"...meaning he just doesn't go about killing people...or no-selling magical attacks.Silver Age Superman isn't a conventionally written Superman as he hasn't been like that in over 50 years, meaning most of his existence. New 52 is a conventionally written Superman with an outlier here and there like the Solar Flare ability or his relationship with Wonder Woman. Superman Prime isn't a conventionally written Superman as Superman generally doesn't spend a million years chilling in the sun.SpiritSephiroth posted... </cite><quote>You're just trying to dilute him to the point where he can be affected by FF magic</quote>No, I'm just stating very real things from the very comics he appears in. Where he is regularly shown to be affected by magic. Meanwhile you think this is Death Battle where you can create some composite of the character that doesn't exist in order to prove a claim you made that doesn't apply to the vast majority of media featuring him out there.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PurestProdigy 10/19/23 9:50:07 PM #147:	UnfairRepresent posted... Not counting the MMOs but all the mainstream FF games with an actual plot Nice troll. IDK about XI, but XIV's WoL rendition makes this fight even have a semblance of being winnable for team FF though. --- [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] <cite>PurestProdigy posted [p:976754855] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>UnfairRepresent posted... </cite><quote>Not counting the MMOs but all the mainstream FF games with an actual plot</quote>Nice troll. IDK about XI, but XIV's WoL rendition makes this fight even have a semblance of being winnable for team FF though. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheSavageDragon 10/19/23 9:51:11 PM #148:	VFalcone posted... I am not the other guy but I just wanted to make clear that Shazam's Shazam! attack is magical. Magic in the form of lightning. That's why it hurts Superman so much. He can theoretically beat Superman by spamming Shazam!. But that's exactly why Superman had to take him out ASAP when he tried to do just that Yup, I know. It's not only magical in origin, but magical in nature. I didn't address that because it is beside the point of magic supposedly needing to be highly potent in order to affect him. And it's also besides the point because the elemental spells in FF don't share that property, they're still very much normal fire/ice/lightning. And it's also besides the point of me requesting an example of a non physical spell not landing on Superman since the very beginning. Which he somehow thinks that is an example of. <cite>TheSavageDragon posted [p:976754876] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>VFalcone posted... </cite><quote>I am not the other guy but I just wanted to make clear that Shazam's Shazam! attack is magical. Magic in the form of lightning. That's why it hurts Superman so much. He can theoretically beat Superman by spamming Shazam!. But that's exactly why Superman had to take him out ASAP when he tried to do just that</quote>Yup, I know. It's not only magical in origin, but magical in nature. I didn't address that because it is beside the point of magic supposedly needing to be highly potent in order to affect him. And it's also besides the point because the elemental spells in FF don't share that property, they're still very much normal fire/ice/lightning.And it's also besides the point of me requesting an example of a non physical spell not landing on Superman since the very beginning. Which he somehow thinks that is an example of.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Trumble 10/19/23 9:54:09 PM #149:	Depends if we count Yuna or Tidus for FFX, cause Yuna could just summon Yojimbo and Zanmato them all. --- You can't spell Trumble without several letters of the English alphabet. <cite>Trumble posted [p:976754911] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>Depends if we count Yuna or Tidus for FFX, cause Yuna could just summon Yojimbo and Zanmato them all. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
VFalcone 10/19/23 10:13:35 PM #150:	TheSavageDragon posted... Yup, I know. It's not only magical in origin, but magical in nature. I didn't address that because it is beside the point of magic supposedly needing to be highly potent in order to affect him. And it's also besides the point because the elemental spells in FF don't share that property, they're still very much normal fire/ice/lightning. And it's also besides the point of me requesting an example of a non physical spell not landing on Superman since the very beginning. Which he somehow thinks that is an example of. Oh I think I get what the confusion here is. By "non-physical" magic, you mean a mage saying "slow" and Superman slows down? Yeah that would and has affected everyone. There's the episode in JLU where that kid sent every adult to another dimension, then his mom Morgaine le Fey turned the JL into kids. But they were both mega powerful sorcerers. Morgaine solo'd the JL in that show so... The only other instance I could think of was in Young Justice where Klarion took control of the JL buuuut he's a Lord of Chaos so that's dumb OP multiversal magic god character who can do that. <cite>VFalcone posted [p:976755159] in The Justic... [t:80597525]...</cite> <quote>TheSavageDragon posted... </cite><quote>Yup, I know. It's not only magical in origin, but magical in nature. I didn't address that because it is beside the point of magic supposedly needing to be highly potent in order to affect him. And it's also besides the point because the elemental spells in FF don't share that property, they're still very much normal fire/ice/lightning.And it's also besides the point of me requesting an example of a non physical spell not landing on Superman since the very beginning. Which he somehow thinks that is an example of.</quote>Oh I think I get what the confusion here is. By "non-physical" magic, you mean a mage saying "slow" and Superman slows down? Yeah that would and has affected everyone. There's the episode in JLU where that kid sent every adult to another dimension, then his mom Morgaine le Fey turned the JL into kids. But they were both mega powerful sorcerers. Morgaine solo'd the JL in that show so... The only other instance I could think of was in Young Justice where Klarion took control of the JL buuuut he's a Lord of Chaos so that's dumb OP multiversal magic god character who can do that. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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