Current Events > 'Weapon Durability'

(+) Yeah! (+)

ssjevot posted...

I think in traditional dungeon RPGs and those inspired by them (like Souls games) it is good because it adds to the challenge. The Souls games also have an interesting PvP build where you focus on breaking the opponents equipment.

But in a lot of games it's badly implemented or adds nothing. In the Zelda games I think it's more so annoying because stuff breaks so fast and can't be repaired. I get why they implemented it, but in practice it just doesn't feel very good and the games let you completely break the difficulty with food anyway.

In some games I don't mind them. For instance, in Fire Emblem Three Houses, I thought it was fine. Your weapon breaks, but you can upgrade it or get it repaired at the store, but the weapon doesn't vaporize and disappear.

And the weapon repair / smith system stops you from making a ton of super overpowered weapons because you have to balance between repairs, upgrades and new purchases.

In something like Fire Emblem GBAs - Radiant Dawn, it's kinda crappy because unique weapons that can break just disappear off the face of the map with no real replacement for them if / when they break, which leads to a person wanting to conserve them because they don't know how many chapters there are so they don't know the general pacing for which is acceptable use. The only way to repair them is via staves which also have limited usage.

To be honest, I don't think it necessarily adds challenge, but rather adds an element of management and potential depth. Zelda, those things break too fast for you to really get accustomed to any weapon in particular-- which makes it feel like you are scrounging for weapons rather than using them.

I'll 2nd Monster Hunter as an example of durability done right

BurmesePenguin posted...

Monster Hunter

How is it fun to constantly have to sharpen a weapon? Especially early in the game when weapons don't have long sharpness bars? I just started a new character in World and the constant sharpening sucks. It doesn't add anything except trollolol you didn't look at this tiny bar enough, now stop all gameplay, find a safe spot, and do this meaningless task so you can have fun again.

To be honest, I don't think it necessarily adds challenge, but rather adds an element of management and potential depth.

i think it only adds depth if it gets the player to try new weapons and strategies. if it's just a thing where you have to hit a menu choice or else, it's just a chore.

Not everything is about what is "fun" in the moment. Weapon durability is not "fun" in the moment where you need to sharpen, but it adds a certain pace to combat that makes it flow better in a grander scheme.

Shamino posted...

I just started a new character in World and the constant sharpening sucks.

this is why i never got into MH, bosses running away, sharpening every minute
i'd rather have it like dark souls

Nukazie posted...

this is why i never got into MH, bosses running away, sharpening every minute
i'd rather have it like dark souls

I'm honestly questioning why I bothered, tbh. I forgot how tedious it is.

As long as repairs can be made while out and about and the items aren't destroyed if they reach zero durability. Broken items may need to be professionally repaired at a shop, but never totally broken or given permanent stat nerfs.

Fluttershy posted...

To be honest, I don't think it necessarily adds challenge, but rather adds an element of management and potential depth.

i think it only adds depth if it gets the player to try new weapons and strategies. if it's just a thing where you have to hit a menu choice or else, it's just a chore.

Which I felt that Fire Emblem Three Houses managed with the durability. You aren't going to use Silver Weapons or fill everyone with Magical 3 range swords and whatnot because you can't afford it for more than a couple of chapters.

Weapons aren't breaking like every chapter for everyone so it's not so bad.

monster hunter repair - haven't played - looks fucking terrible. i want to ask how much damage the player loses out on by not being at max sharpness or whatever because shit like that - systems that actively leverage players' desire to play optimally against them - they're bad.

how much time does sharpening end up saving? how much of a damage loss is it to not be at max?

Which I felt that Fire Emblem Three Houses managed with the durability.

i'm in the dark with the fire emblem games but from what i can remember it's a you-get-this-many-uses thing, kinda like the ff legend games. do those games have repairs? i'm imagining you probably can't repair silver or magic weapons?

ArtiRock posted...

Which I felt that Fire Emblem Three Houses managed with the durability. You aren't going to use Silver Weapons or fill everyone with Magical 3 range swords and whatnot because you can't afford it for more than a couple of chapters.

Weapons aren't breaking like every chapter for everyone so it's not so bad.

I put a few hundred hours into Three Houses and forgot there was durability lol

but that feels natural to the series since its been there on and off since the start

Also, like you said, it forces you to actually item manage and not just waltz in with OP weapons and stomp. Though the cost to repair usually isn't too demanding (in 3H)

It depends on the game. Im not a huge fan of huge inventory management systems, so games like Breath of the Wild really put me off.

But thinking about, for example, knives in REmake 2 having limited usage before they break, I think that system works just fine, it makes them a resource that needs to be conserved the same way other ammo types are.

Only time it doesn't bother me too much is in zombie games (Dying Light, Dead Island) where you are literally duct taping makeshift weapons together

Fluttershy posted...

onster hunter repair - haven't played - looks fucking terrible. i want to ask how much damage the player loses out on by not being at max sharpness or whatever because shit like that - systems that actively leverage players' desire to play optimally against them - they're bad.

how much time does sharpening end up saving? how much of a damage loss is it to not be at max?

It changes between games. Here's a chart for World.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/7/9/AAearvAAE7J_.png

But you simply do not understand the intricacies of the system and how the pace of combat works, or how sharpness and your intent with it interacts with the indiviaul weapons and sharpness related armour skills. Not that you ought to know, just that your outburst of hate is really not rooted in a proper grasp of what you're getting heated about.

your outburst of hate

don't get so defensive, it makes it look like my criticism is super valid.

you still haven't really addressed what i asked: how much does this system leverage player time against the player? better question yet: how much better would the game be if you never had to take turns off?

Plus, weapon sharpness factors into builds for Monster Hunter. You might have a choice between have a weapon that has a lot of white sharpness, or another weapon that has 10 hits of purple sharpness, so you add in a skill so that your weapon doesnt lose sharpness for a minute after sharpening. You can also slot in skills to reduce the amount of time you need to sharpen, or to extend your sharpness meter so you have to sharpen less often.

You can also inflict sleep on the monster so you have downtime to set up traps and sharpen/prepare other buffs, since its a game about hunting.

Basically if youre running into situations where sharpness is a frequent problem, either your builds terrible or its actually a skill issue.

Fluttershy posted...

how much does this system leverage player time against the player?

I don't understand what that means.

I don't understand what that means.

that's okay, it wasn't like i was really trying to start a conversation with a known shitposter in the first place.

those questions are there for anyone (else, preferably) to answer.

Plus, weapon sharpness factors into builds for Monster Hunter. You might have a choice between have a weapon that has a lot of white sharpness, or another weapon that has 10 hits of purple sharpness, so you add in a skill so that your weapon doesnt lose sharpness for a minute after sharpening. You can also slot in skills to reduce the amount of time you need to sharpen, or to extend your sharpness meter so you have to sharpen less often.

these sound like band-aids the player has to apply over a bad system to me. i feel like most of the defense of systems like this comes from a place where people are really used to and really proud of stacking cups in video games and they don't want the time they wasted learning how to do that to just not be useful.

BurmesePenguin posted...

I don't understand what that means.

As in how much do you have to spend sharpening. Which is to say... Not much.

ArtiRock posted...

As in how much do you have to spend sharpening. Which is to say... Not much.

un-edited by speed sharpener skill it takes about 5 seconds to sharpen a weapon, but that's not the whole story as you need to find five seconds where a monster won't attack you (very easy in Risebreak with the palamute companions). But also depending on your weapons and what skills you have on, you might not have to sharpen your weapon during combat at all, or you might choose not to as the damage buff for whichever many hits is not worth finding those five seconds away from the monster's ire.

As in how much do you have to spend sharpening. Which is to say... Not much.

if i watched a recording of the game from start to finish of an average player, how much time do you think in total they're in a sharpening animation?

variasuite posted...

It's awful in all cases. Name one single game where weapon durability makes it more fun.

Lies of P. They give you the option to repair your weapon mid combat, and there are ways that increase your damage proportional to the amount of durability you have left. Those same repair grindstones also can have effects like burning or acid damage.

there are ways that increase your damage proportional to the amount of durability you have left

so it's a hoop you have to jump through if you want to play optimally.

Fluttershy posted...

there are ways that increase your damage proportional to the amount of durability you have left

so it's a hoop you have to jump through if you want to play optimally.

Clearly you know more about games you've never played than anyone else, so I guess we'll just take your word for it.

i noticed you didn't bother trying to refute what i said. maybe consider shutting the fuck up in the future before you reply because you didn't add anything.

oh, a 2012 account with 13 active posts. someone's main is on timeout.

Fluttershy posted...

i noticed you didn't bother trying to refute what i said. maybe consider shutting the fuck up in the future before you reply because you didn't add anything.

oh, a 2012 account with 13 active posts. someone's main is on timeout.

No reason bothering to refute anything if you're just going to say "oh you're stockholming yourself into liking this thing" to anyone that tries to add to the topic.

Get over yourself.

Its a dumb mechanic

All I gotta say about the last few posts is mentioning someone's account date,karma and posts is just lame...just carry some pocket sand or something better.

No reason bothering to refute anything

when you can't. yeah, i get it. consider shutting the fuck up, like i said. don't care what some cold storage shitposter says.

All I gotta say about the last few posts is mentioning someone's account date,karma and posts is just lame

all i can say is that's something that someone who has to survive on forums with alts would say. i know you dislike it because it gets people to discredit your opinion (and they should).

NittanyLions23 posted...

I like it in Fallout 3.

what would be the point of collecting extra guns and gear?

Just to sell it?

Questionmarktarius posted...

Borderlands never had this problem.

Yeah you just had so many guns it was overwhelming

Generally bad, although can be good in certain situations.

I thought it was a good mechanic for Koudelka, which was a survival horror RPG, and the resource management between going into battle with something that'll break because you know you'll level up with it sometimes made it a hard choice as to who carried what.

It was good for the genre. And it wasn't an entire middle finger to the player.

People say they don't like it but all I've seen is games listed that are really fun.

Weapon Durability should only affect critical hits

super overhated, people seem to just want everything to be permanent with no concept of relegation

Illuminoius posted...

super overhated, people seem to just want everything to be permanent with no concept of relegation

dog this is a video game not real life do you want the protagonist to spend time taking a shit and doing their taxes in GTA 6?

super overhated, people seem to just want everything to be permanent with no concept of relegation

what's with all the people who have absolutely nothing to add?

A_Good_Boy posted...

The trick in looter shooters is telling yourself it's OK to leave junk on the floor.

no way.

Especially in a post apocalyptic game like fallout.

Its so satisfying to find an extra shotgun when yours is getting close to breaking.

The sound of the duct tape when you repair an item is so satisfying.

And the fact that the weapon gain damage when its closer to 100% durability. It is another thing that I like.

if I take a melee weapon like a baseball bat and use it to kill 100 Raiders, you think it makes sense that the baseball bat is in 100% condition after that?

I like how fallout handled this

And the fact that the weapon gain damage when its closer to 100% durability. It is another thing that I like.

i think it works a little better there because the player isn't expected to maintain that. works with the theme, too, but i'm about systems man.

BurmesePenguin posted...

Monster Hunter

Agreed.

Bad mechanic. Some games implement it more acceptably/tolerably than others, but I have never found it outright enjoyable or fun. Usually it contributes massively toward me finding the game tedious overall (looking at you, BotW, Fallout 3/NV...)

"It gets better/easier later" is just as bad of a defense for this mechanic as it is for long games as a whole, btw. If you make the player have to endure a shitty experience before getting to the point where it isn't as shitty anymore, I'm far more likely to just quit first. I have way less time, patience, and tolerance for that kind of bullshit nowadays than I may have had as a kid.

BurmesePenguin posted...

un-edited by speed sharpener skill it takes about 5 seconds to sharpen a weapon, but that's not the whole story as you need to find five seconds where a monster won't attack you (very easy in Risebreak with the palamute companions). But also depending on your weapons and what skills you have on, you might not have to sharpen your weapon during combat at all, or you might choose not to as the damage buff for whichever many hits is not worth finding those five seconds away from the monster's ire.

Oh, I know. I meant as in "it doesn't take up much of your time." It's actually part of the game.

I like it if its handled well I personally liked it for BotW and TotK

I don't mind it. Repair costs are pretty low, and there's usually a way to increase your item's durability or make it indestructible.