Current Events > Newsom vetoes bill that would've banned caste system discrimination.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Crazyman93 posted...

And that's why Trump won in 2016 and why they put Biden up in 2020. The DNC cares more about "electability" than actually supporting anything they claim to support.

biden won, though. He won because white boomers in certain red and purple states were comfortable voting for him.

Bernie and AOC will get you a 900% better performance in CA, NY and IL. Guess what? Those are blue states anyway. MI, WI, AZ, VA, thats where its at, and AOC and Bernie types cant carry those states

The_shibe posted...

d here we go. Hillary 2.0, this candidate is not the perfect saint and ideologically pure progressive I would like to see. Now I shall not vote for him and let trump/dsantis/whatever far-right extremist they come up with win elections instead so they can appoint another alt-right scotus justice or two so they can keep taking rights away from women, minorities and young people for generations to come

Not perfect and supporting discrimination, are not the same thing. And Hillary and Bill got Trump to Run and then pushed him after he started for run.

The_shibe posted...

who else? Bernie? AOC? Harris? We need someone who can win elections.

Polling for both 2016 and 2020 showed Bernie could've won the general if he was nominated, he just can't get nominated lol. While Harris probably can't win the general and AOC is a longshot in either the primary or general, but the Democratic party is big, surely you can fine someone else who supports caps for insulin when Biden himself does.

The_shibe posted...

are we really going to repeat the same mistake and insist on having an ideological pure, socialist, feminist, vegan candidate who has an amazing freestyle rap skillset and who does yoga and drinks kombucha too?

People just don't want a heavily corporate influenced candidate. Biden seems to have grown beyond most corporate influence, into serving the people. But younger politicians like Newsom still seem heavily dependent on corporations to establish their careers. Dunno about trusting them with the country.

The_shibe posted...

biden won, though. He won because white boomers in certain red and purple states were comfortable voting for him.

Bernie and AOC will get you a 900% better performance in CA, NY and IL. Guess what? Those are blue states anyway. MI, WI, AZ, VA, thats where its at, and AOC and Bernie types cant carry those states

Whitmer should be the front runner in 2028. She knows how to win elections and doing so in a swing state. Her party in Michigan has beat the Michigan GOP into poverty

Inohira posted...

Polling for both 2016 and 2020 showed Bernie could've won the general if he was nominated, he just can't get nominated lol.

Yet he couldn't even win a primary.

Bernie math doesn't get you the presidency, and neither does those polls you want to cling to that clearly didnt pan out well.

Winning primaries and general election through the actually voting where it matters, does. This includes the swing states that aren't already deeply blue.

I don't think we need to pre-plan the 2028 primary 5 years ahead of time. Barack Obama was not exactly a household name in 2003.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Like who?

Like the one we have currently? lmao

It's not some rare unusual thing, Newsom's just goofy.

asdf8562 posted...

Yet he couldn't even win a primary.

Trump's gonna win the 2024 GOP primary. But do you think he's the most electable Republican? Dems are breathing a sigh of relief that someone like DeSantis or Haley can't win the primary.

Who political party voters want to be their nominee and who independent voters want to be their president is not always the same.

asdf8562 posted...

and neither does those polls you want to cling to that clearly didnt pan out well.

How did polls that were never disproven "not work out"? The polls always said Bernie was going to lose the primary. If his primary polls were correct, there's no reason to think his general polls wouldn't have been correct too.

Heineken14 posted...

https://imgur.com/zlPYR8J.jpeg

7961 karma roflmao! I hate the "touch grass" meme as much as the next guy but when was the last time you had a breath of fresh air, my guy?

asdf8562 posted...

Yet he couldn't even win a primary.

Bernie math doesn't get you the presidency, and neither does those polls you want to cling to that clearly didnt pan out well.

Winning primaries and general election through the actually voting where it matters, does. This includes the swing states that aren't already deeply blue.

Bernie won the 2020 primary. Saying he didn't just makes you look ignorant. Bernie won the primary and was rugpulled after his victory.

cjsdowg posted...

Not perfect and supporting discrimination, are not the same thing. And Hillary and Bill got Trump to Run and then pushed him after he started for run.

oh shit. Newsom actually said he supports discrimination? Now thats pretty horrible, and a deal breaker for sure. When did he say this? Yeah thats a deal breaker for me too

Inohira posted...

Polling for both 2016 and 2020 showed Bernie could've won the general if he was nominated, he just can't get nominated lol.

hell no. Dude he even calls himself a democratic socialist. A term with the 2 things the enlightened centrists and independent voters who voted for Obama twice but think the democrats have gone too far left (its all bulls***, I know) fear the most; democracy and socialism.

bernie would not win any southern states, not wi too and probably not MI either

The_shibe posted...

bernie would not win any southern states, not wi too and probably not MI either

Neither did Hillary, though.

The_shibe posted...

h shit. Newsom actually said he supports discrimination? Now thats pretty horrible, and a deal breaker for sure. When did he say this? Yeah thats a deal breaker for me too

What do you think voting a bill that stops discrimination does ?

Inohira posted...

Like the one we have currently? lmao

It's not some rare unusual thing, Newsom's just goofy.

Oh, I thought you were talking about after 2024

Antifar posted...

Neither did Hillary, though.

you are right. She could have, but her campaign strategy messed up royally. And the people who want Bernie/AOC didnt vote for her too.

the likes of Bernie or AOC would never even have the chance to take those states, though.

cjsdowg posted...

What do you think voting a bill that stops discrimination does ?

ok, so he didnt actually say that?

The_shibe posted...

ok, so he didnt actually say that?

So if a Klan's men burn a cross on someone's lawn but doesn't say he hates black people. In your world he doesn't hate black people ? Because he didn't say it?

Maybe he just hates crosses

cjsdowg posted...

So if a Klan's men burn a cross on someone's lawn but doesn't say he hates black people. In your world he doesn't hate black people ? Because he didn't say it?

well, first of all, such a person would be a member of a group that has hating people of color baked into its core principles, lol. And said group is well known for that. And said act was devised as a way to intimidate people of color.

your analogy is pretty weak, my man

Did a Republican create this bill? Creating a solution to an imaginary problem is something right up their alley.

The_shibe posted...

you are right. She could have, but her campaign strategy messed up royally. And the people who want Bernie/AOC didnt vote for her too.

the likes of Bernie or AOC would never even have the chance to take those states, though.

Bernie won the 2016 Wisconsin primary and Michigan primary, and Hillary only lost those two states by a few thousand votes in the general. They could've been saved.

Bernie was liked in northern swing states. Being progressive doesn't automatically mean you can't win them, you just have to campaign right.

DerWillZurMacht posted...

Bernie won the 2020 primary. Saying he didn't just makes you look ignorant. Bernie won the primary and was rugpulled after his victory.

Bernie might have won if multiple candidates didn't drop out at a strategically bizarre time to endorse Biden alongside multiple Democratic officials right before Super Tuesday despite the fact that he was in 2nd place at the time and had only won one state that always votes Republican in the general anyway (after being trounced in the previous three states), but to be fair, there's no way to know for sure.

Polls didn't expect Bernie to claim a majority of votes before the convention. If he still only had a plurality of votes at the end, the nominee would've been chosen by the superdelegates at the convention instead. And looking at the bizarre sequence of events outlined in the above paragraph, they sure weren't picking Bernie lol.

Inohira posted...

Trump's gonna win the 2024 GOP primary. But do you think he's the most electable Republican?

If Trump wins the Republican primary, it doesnt matter what we think. The answer is yes based off the clear results of the Republican primary. Not polls and whatever you can come up with that tries to rationalize why the orange snowflake won the Republican primary.

Wishful thinking doesn't win you the primary or general election. Actually showing up to vote does. Nothing stopped those people from actually voting for Bernie in the primaries.

The people that can't accept Bernie lost love to claim it was rigged just like another group we all know of. (Before it's said, I'm not calling all Bernie supporters like this, I'm only calling specifically the ones who can't accept the man lost, twice. Claiming some variant it was rigged, or calling to shit that doesnt decide how elections are actually won.)

DerWillZurMacht posted...

Bernie won the 2020 primary. Saying he didn't just makes you look ignorant. Bernie won the primary and was rugpulled after his victory.

Bernie was doing consistent well in primaries for 2020. The other candidates all dropped after South Carolina to just hand it over to Biden, even though some had previously been doing better than Biden.

Clinton's 2016 campaign problems mostly end being derived from the fact she was very status quo and didn't take Trump seriously. Tbf, I don't think any of the opposition and even many other republicans took him seriously at first.

Anyway, back to the topic. If the caste system is still being utilized, the person who's a victim of it would need to prove that they are suffering from it. The ways it's likely to affect someone would be harder to prove, since they person is likely only experiencing it within their own culture, which is not the dominant in general. The bill could've set precedent for a case that would cause a further look at the situation. Without the bill, I imagine it'd be harder to push the case for the aforementioned reason.

asdf8562 posted...

If Trump wins the Republican primary, it doesnt matter what we think. The answer is yes based off the clear results of the Republican primary.

But why are you assuming that what GOP primary voters want represents what the country as a whole wants more than polls of the country do?

Most voters do not participate in the primaries. In 2016, 128 million people voted in the general election, but only about 60 million people voted in the primaries. Less than half. The electorates are extremely different. They don't represent each other at all.

Again, all of these polls correctly predict who wins each primary. But you're assuming they're wrong about the general based purely on what happened in the primary (that they were right about). It doesn't make logical sense.

asdf8562 posted...

Nothing stopped those people from actually voting for Bernie in the primaries.

They're not Democrats, and most states close their elections to just party members.

If Trump ran in the Dem primary, he'd lose.
If Biden ran in the GOP primary, he'd lose.
Bernie is an independent. So he'd lose any party primary.

But these facts don't mean they wouldn't be popular in general elections.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Did a Republican create this a bill? Creating a solution to an imaginary problem is something right up their alley.

*sigh*

The bill was introduced and authored by Democratic state Senator Aisha Wahab, an Afghan American, in March. An earlier version of it passed the state Senate before undergoing revisions.

Inohira posted...

*sigh*

And who is that, some kind of Manchin/Sinema style Dem? And what was the original bill before the revisions?

Inohira posted...

But why are you assuming that what GOP primary voters want represents what the country as a whole wants more than polls of the country do?

Read exactly what I said.

You asked if Trump wins 2024 GOP primary does that mean he's the most electable Republican?

The answer is yes as that is literally who the Republicans decided to vote for. Not some theoretical candidate out in the aether winning polls or online popularity contest that don't matter. But the actual primary that requires you to actually vote for who the candidate will be.

You can point at theoretical polls, crowd sizes or honestly whatever flowery feel good metric that makes you feel good about your candidate. Unless those people turn out to vote for your feel good dont matter stats where it actually counts, it doesnt matter.

Inohira posted...

If Trump ran in the Dem primary, he'd lose.
If Biden ran in the GOP primary, he'd lose.

This was irrelevant to say as I never claimed Trump should run in Dem primary, or Biden in the GOP. Also the bottom line is if they decided to run as those parties and lost it would be on them. Not some conspiracy that tries to rationalize their losses.

Inohira posted...

Bernie is an independent. So he'd lose any party primary.

That is Bernies own fault. He decided to run as a Democrat, and the Dem voting base did not vote for him in the primary. The GOP definitely wouldn't vote for Bernie as they fearmonger him to be some boogeyman commie socialist right wing bingo card.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

And who is that, some kind of Manchin/Sinema style Dem?

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/04/ban-caste-discrimination-california-bill-00113817

Wahab, a progressive tapped by Newsom to highlight his signature gun control effort, appeared to be caught off guard by the vitriolic response to what she views as a straightforward issue.

This is a civil rights bill, she said in an interview. Its very simple. Were trying to protect people.

asdf8562 posted...

Not some conspiracy that tries to rationalize their losses or being "rigged" or whatever.

To be fair I didn't call Bernie's losses rigged, they matched the average polling so there's no reason to question their legitimacy. I'm just saying there's no statistical backing to the theory that if you lose a primary that means you're incapable of winning a general.

Candidates have literally lost their primary then ran independent in the same election's general and won. Lisa Murkowski lost Alaska's GOP Senate primary then ran independent in the general and won. Your logic would've deemed that impossible.

Inohira posted...

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/09/04/ban-caste-discrimination-california-bill-00113817

You seem to be under the impression that there aren't stupid Democrats. There are. We just don't give them the time of day like Republicans do, hence Newsoms rejection of the bill.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

You seem to be under the impression that there aren't stupid Democrats. There are. We just don't give them the time of day like Republicans do, hence Newsoms rejection of the bill.

I think this is weirdly dismissive of a bill that passed both houses of California's legislature.

Antifar posted...

I think this is weirdly dismissive of a bill that passed both houses of California's legislature.

Since when has the US ever have a caste system?

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Since when has the US ever have a caste system?

Since when has there not been one in America ?

nocturnal_traveler posted...

Since when has the US ever have a caste system?

Going to resist the urge to digress on this question.

The US as a whole doesn't need a caste system for it to nevertheless show its head in some areas:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/advocates-of-california-bill-to-ban-caste-discrimination-find-veto-heartbreaking/ar-AA1hT8Gs

"I grew up in Orange County, where I was bullied for my caste throughout my education," said Thenmozhi Soundararajan, executive director of California-based Dalit civil rights organization Equality Labs.
"Caste-oppressed Californians are here, and we deserve workplaces and schools free from discrimination and violence," Soundararajan said in her testimony in April in support of the bill.
Equality Labs said "it is heartbreaking to receive the governor's veto."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/27/indian-caste-bias-silicon-valley/

Antifar posted...

Going to resist the urge to digress on this question.

The US as a whole doesn't need a caste system for it to nevertheless show its head in some areas:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/advocates-of-california-bill-to-ban-caste-discrimination-find-veto-heartbreaking/ar-AA1hT8Gs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/27/indian-caste-bias-silicon-valley/

So let me get this straight. California has a system like high school, only instead of nerds, jocks, etc, it's categories of students? Just when I didn't think that State could be any more fake with its liberalism.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

And what was the original bill before the revisions?

After some digging I found info. The original bill focused more heavily on "caste"; other progressives lobbied to lessen its prominence (presumably in favor of other civil rights measures):

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/07/newsom-veto-caste-discrimination-00120495

The bill also received pushback from two of Wahabs progressive colleagues in the Assembly, and was amended to make the word caste less prominent in the law.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

You seem to be under the impression that there aren't stupid Democrats.

I was simply refuting the suspicion that she's a Republican or a Manchin Democrat in those quotes.

But regardless, the whole topic's about calling out a stupid Democrat. The one listening to Republicans:

A pair of Republican state senators, Brian Jones and Shannon Grove, wrote a letter to Newsom on Tuesday asking him to veto the bill. The senators claimed that the bill would not only target and racially profile South Asian Californians, but will put other California residents and businesses at risk and jeopardize our states innovative edge.

Now that sounds more like an "imaginary problem".

nocturnal_traveler posted...

So let me get this straight. California has a system like high school, only instead of nerds, jocks, etc, it's categories of students? Just when I didn't think that State could be any more fake with its liberalism.

It's not specific to California, it's just that a lot of the US Hindu population happens to be in California.

Antifar posted...

It's not specific to California, it's just that a lot of the US Hindu population happens to be in California.

Putting into that context, I think Newsom was also clueless, and didn't believe in it either.

nocturnal_traveler posted...

You seem to be under the impression that there aren't stupid Democrats. There are. We just don't give them the time of day like Republicans do, hence Newsoms rejection of the bill.

No, he seems to be under the impression that he's arguing with people in good faith and not rogue ChatGPT bots like you. Hence your "Heads I win tails you lose" response to everything you're quoting.

DerWillZurMacht posted...

No, he seems to be under the impression that he's arguing with people in good faith and not rogue ChatGPT bots like you. Hence your "Heads I win tails you lose" response to everything you're quoting.

A little late to the party, man. Antifar, Inohira, and myself had a nice chat, and I'm now up to speed.

Fuck bigotry.

https://apnews.com/article/newsom-police-misconduct-public-records-budget-4da9b6e89716ddc92d3ac69e6e2a8079

Golly. See what kind of skeletons you can find in a politicians' closet if you just take a look?

DerWillZurMacht posted...

https://apnews.com/article/newsom-police-misconduct-public-records-budget-4da9b6e89716ddc92d3ac69e6e2a8079

Golly. See what kind of skeletons you can find in a politicians' closet if you just take a look?

now do the GOP

The_shibe posted...

now do the GOP

Are you kidding me? Do you know how much time that would take? I have a life. Obviously he's better than any Republican. I wouldn't even call Newsom Republican-lite. But he's not a good Democrat and he doesn't need to be Governor. We need to do better.