Current Events > Games like FF16? - Thinking combat mostly.

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Any other games like FF16 at all?

Thinking combat mostly. Combat in FF16 is great to me so looking for something similar. Especially with the way the staggers work and cooldown on moves.

Any ideas?

The FF7 remake has a lot of similarities to the combat engine in 16.

Devil May Cry 5

Thanks. Just realised I have DMC already but never played it. Also just purchased Scarlet Nexus which is meant to be very good.

s0nicfan posted...

The FF7 remake has a lot of similarities to the combat engine in 16.

My man. I love FF7. Might give it a replay soon. Good choice.

dmc 5 has the full version of the combat system ff16 was going for but had to limit for some reason (i guess because it still had to be a rpg????)

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I played the OG when I was a kid but I wasn't a massive fan so I'm not hopeful I'll like DMC5 but I'll give it a go.

Ratchetrockon posted...

dmc 5 has the full version of the combat system ff16 was going for but had to limit for some reason (i guess because it still had to be a rpg????)

I like RPG elements tbh so if DMC doesn't have them it may put me off.

For a comparison I loved the GBA Castlevania games but not the older NES and SNES ones.

To be fair FF16 barely has any form of RPG elements

SHRlKE posted...

I played the OG when I was a kid but I wasn't a massive fan so I'm not hopeful I'll like DMC5 but I'll give it a go.

The OG Dmc and Dmc V are almost totally different games. I mean the baseline is still there, but its been improved to such a degree that its so fluid now.

SpiritSephiroth posted...

The OG Dmc and Dmc V are almost totally different games. I mean the baseline is still there, but its been improved to such a degree that its so fluid now.

in that case Im optimistic. I just looked at a quick gameplay video and it looks pretty good.

dmc 1 is like almost a diff genre than dmc 5.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

To be fair FF16 barely has any form of RPG elements

Honestly, I think 16 has plenty of RPG elements. People just want to hate on it.

You have multiple towns, you have your mid-game mount upgrade, you have equipment, you have leveling, you have an ability tree, you got chocobos and moogles and summons, there's crafting and upgrading, equipping different eikons, you have all the normal jrpg stuff involving churches and gods, etc.

Outside of turn-based combat and controlling the rest of your party, what other RPG elements are missing that you would find in more than half of the mainline final fantasies? Most of them don't even allow you to pick your moves when you level up.

SHRlKE posted...

in that case Im optimistic. I just looked at a quick gameplay video and it looks pretty good.

DMC 5 and FF 16 both have the same combat director I believe. So if you liked FF you'll probably rock with it

DMC4 and 5, Scarlet Nexus, and probably the entire hunting-game genre would be up your alley, I think

Voidgolem posted...

DMC4 and 5, Scarlet Nexus, and probably the entire hunting-game genre would be up your alley, I think

Oh, that's a great point. TC might absolutely love monster hunter. There are heavy RPG elements in needing to bring the right equipment for the job, monsters absolutely can be staggered or knocked over, and you get just enough tactical combat that it's engaging.

s0nicfan posted...

Honestly, I think 16 has plenty of RPG elements. People just want to hate on it.

You have multiple towns, you have your mid-game mount upgrade, you have equipment, you have leveling, you have an ability tree, you got chocobos and moogles and summons, there's crafting and upgrading, equipping different eikons, you have all the normal jrpg stuff involving churches and gods, etc.

Outside of turn-based combat and controlling the rest of your party, what other RPG elements are missing that you would find in more than half of the mainline final fantasies? Most of them don't even allow you to pick your moves when you level up.

I beat it and it's currently my GOTY by far but almost everything you said was more or less as basic as can possibly be. There is zero depth whatsoever, especially in terms of gear giving you +5 strength. Wow.

The ability tree is also not really there. There's no abilities, just your eikon abilities you get as you go on. And then there's just three moves you can upgrade once.

It's THERE, but it is all extremely limited and basic. I wouldn't say it's an RPG for that stuff. The long and awesome story and characters yeah they got that though

Kaldrenthebold posted...

I beat it and it's currently my GOTY by far but almost everything you said was more or less as basic as can possibly be. There is zero depth whatsoever, especially in terms of gear giving you +5 strength. Wow.

The ability tree is also not really there. There's no abilities, just your eikon abilities you get as you go on. And then there's just three moves you can upgrade once.

It's THERE, but it is all extremely limited and basic. I wouldn't say it's an RPG for that stuff. The long and awesome story and characters yeah they got that though

but how much more shallow it is compared to every other final fantasy is the question. Gear gives you +5 str.. okay. Isn't that how weapons and armor have worked in nearly every FF? It's just a stat boost, with the trinkets and rings being where weird abilities lie. How many final fantasies do anything beyond "buy the newest sword and armor in the next town and it's objectively better than what you have until endgame secrets"? That's like... all of them.

Same with the ability tree... most FFs don't even have one. You just get moves at certain levels and that's it. There isn't even the illusion of choice. Sure, you don't have a ton of options in terms of which moves you equip, but you HAVE options.

I'm not saying 16 is some incredibly mechanically rich RPG, but I feel like 16 does RPG about as well as every other Final Fantasy and simply because it's more action oriented in the battles it's become trendy to act like the game is somehow way short of everything else people want in a JRPG.

DMC is nothing like FF16 what the hepl is this thread talking about

IceCreamOnStero posted...

DMC is nothing like FF16 what the hepl is this thread talking about

https://youtu.be/QR7EP74DsBQ?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/nbGS0qBSOCg?feature=shared

Bro they look the same to me!!! Like I would fail a blind test if the graphics and settings were swapped and I can't see the controller inputs

s0nicfan posted...

Honestly, I think 16 has plenty of RPG elements. People just want to hate on it.

You have multiple towns,

With nothing town-ish in them. You get a few fetch quests inside, nothing else.

you have your mid-game mount upgrade, you have equipment,

Equipment is completely arbitrary.

You have leveling,

Arbitrary

you have an ability tree,

Largely arbitrary

you got chocobos and moogles and summons,

These aren't RPG mechanics, they're FF cameos

there's crafting and upgrading,

Completely arbitrary

Outside of turn-based combat and controlling the rest of your party, what other RPG elements are missing that you would find in more than half of the mainline final fantasies? Most of them don't even allow you to pick your moves when you level up.

Meaningful character progression or character building. Locales that are more than "big open field to get to story stuff". Any degree of exploration or choice in pathing. Meaningful loot or resource management

IceCreamOnStero posted...

DMC is nothing like FF16 what the hepl is this thread talking about

They are not exactly the same, but there are many, many similarities. Just look at the amount of people comparing combo vids with the two games on Youtube.

How you use the combos and the ability timers are different, yes, but the plunges, different abilities that mimic the weapon systems in DMC and other things are similar.

Not to mention its literally made by the same guy.

IceCreamOnStero posted...

DMC is nothing like FF16 what the hepl is this thread talking about

There's absolutely similarities, are you high? They very much did a character action lite thing with FFXI and even had one of DMC5's combat directors working on it.

Mario Odyssey

IceCreamOnStero posted...

Meaningful character progression or character building. Locales that are more than "big open field to get to story stuff". Any degree of exploration or choice in pathing. Meaningful loot or resource management

...which hasn't been a thing in FF for like six to 10 games now depending on how you look at it.

like, for as iconic as the series is, it *is* largely a straight line with a few optional branching paths at the halfway-or-80% mark depending on the game.

s0nicfan posted...

but how much more shallow it is compared to every other final fantasy is the question. Gear gives you +5 str.. okay. Isn't that how weapons and armor have worked in nearly every FF? It's just a stat boost, with the trinkets and rings being where weird abilities lie. How many final fantasies do anything beyond "buy the newest sword and armor in the next town and it's objectively better than what you have until endgame secrets"? That's like... all of them.

Same with the ability tree... most FFs don't even have one. You just get moves at certain levels and that's it. There isn't even the illusion of choice. Sure, you don't have a ton of options in terms of which moves you equip, but you HAVE options.

I'm not saying 16 is some incredibly mechanically rich RPG, but I feel like 16 does RPG about as well as every other Final Fantasy and simply because it's more action oriented in the battles it's become trendy to act like the game is somehow way short of everything else people want in a JRPG.

I mean, no. 7 has the materia system to customize each character to almost anything you want. 9 has abilities tied to gear which can let you mix and match what each character will excel at.

16 has basically nothing. Like literally. Even the accessories are awful (5% extra damage, cool). I don't think anything you said is really true as plenty of older FF games had plenty of actual customization. FF12 Zodiac let's you multi class which really opens the options. FF5 and 3 have the entire job system. Some of them are just plain level ups, but even 6 gives you the opportunity to mix and match with the gear and accessories

16 gives you the absolute bare minimum and doesn't even do anything interesting with the eikons. Would have been far better if there was an elemental system to utilize the eikon abilities and when you mix and match them they CHANGE the element of the ability or look. They could have done far more than they did

SHRlKE posted...

My man. I love FF7. Might give it a replay soon. Good choice.

he said remake, not ff7

Kaldrenthebold posted...

I mean, no. 7 has the materia system to customize each character to almost anything you want. 9 has abilities tied to gear which can let you mix and match what each character will excel at.

16 has basically nothing. Like literally. Even the accessories are awful (5% extra damage, cool). I don't think anything you said is really true as plenty of older FF games had plenty of actual customization. FF12 Zodiac let's you multi class which really opens the options. FF5 and 3 have the entire job system. Some of them are just plain level ups, but even 6 gives you the opportunity to mix and match with the gear and accessories

16 gives you the absolute bare minimum and doesn't even do anything interesting with the eikons. Would have been far better if there was an elemental system to utilize the eikon abilities and when you mix and match them they CHANGE the element of the ability or look. They could have done far more than they did

But this is the thing, if you take a piecemeal interpretation of the features I mentioned then yes, there are games that do them. But when's the last final fantasy that did all of them? Saying well 16 isn't an RPG because three does this and six does this other thing and 12 does this other thing isn't really fair to that game. Especially when each of those features are isolated to a small portion of the overall main line series.

Also, not to be rude but you're really working with a superficial understanding of accessories if you think that all of them are just minor bonuses to stats. I guess if you skipped the side quests, didn't build reputation using the hunt board, and didn't hunt for chests it might seem that way, but there are definitely accessories like the berserk ring that completely change up how Dodge works and actually meaningfully altered my play style.

GuerrillaSoldier posted...

he said remake, not ff7

yeah I know

Voidgolem posted...

...which hasn't been a thing in FF for like six to 10 games now depending on how you look at it.

like, for as iconic as the series is, it *is* largely a straight line with a few optional branching paths at the halfway-or-80% mark depending on the game.

It has been a thing. The majority of FF games form 6 -15 contained several of the things I mentioned.

Yes but none of them contained everything you mentioned.

Nier: Automata
Astral Chain

SHRlKE posted...

Yes but none of them contained everything you mentioned.

6, 7, 9, 13-3 and 15 contained all of those.

SHRlKE posted...

Any other games like FF16 at all?

Thinking combat mostly. Combat in FF16 is great to me so looking for something similar. Especially with the way the staggers work and cooldown on moves.

Any ideas?

It's not exactly the same but check out Kingdoms of Amalur: Re-Reckoning

It's got stagger/skill cool down mechanics but depending on your build and weapon of choice combat can be either slow or fast but even the fastest weapons are still kind of slower than FF16.

Avoid mage talents if you want to actually engage with the combat system because otherwise once you unlock the meteor it's all you will use ever again and it basically kills everything in one hit

luigi33 posted...

Nier: Automata
Astral Chain

Ah yes, Nier automata is a good one I totally forgot about. Really story heavy too.

So without knowing the full depth of what drew you in, I'll try to mention some other stuff that's close-ish.

The God of War 2018 and Ragnarok games both have similar action gameplay with gear tweaks and skill trees. A bit slower paced I think, but might still be worth it.

Remnant is kind of a 3PS/action game with special class skills, but it's more heavily gear-focused. A bit more Souls like, but still more action-y than those. The second game came out recently and is supposed to be much improved over the first.

Monster Hunter may or may not work for you. I'd suggest giving a demo a try to see if the core gameplay appeals. If it does, there's lots of RPG stuff to tie in with the full game.

I'll second the Astral Chain call. Less RPG but it's still got a bit iirc. Bayonetta series exists but is more pure action like DMC.

And if you've got a way to get it, possibly look into Odin Sphere. It's 2D and a bit more arcade-y room based, but plenty of RPG with action gameplay. Art style might throw you off, though. Vanillaware stuff is very high quality sprites, but also heavily stylized.

FF Stranger of Paradise is pretty similar, but with a job system and loot.

I'm playing it right now and enjoying it more than 16. The plot is both simple and unnecessarily complex, but it doesn't matter. The main thing is I just need to destroy CHAOS.

The difficulty spikes are fucking weird though. You'll steamroll everything for hours then they'll throw in an actually challenging fight that is way better than anything 16 has. The battle system itself is better than 16 and there is a stagger system but it works very differently than 16s.