Current Events > this is a sadly accurate as hell double standard in writing

(+) Yeah! (+)

Thats a pretty sexist take

I'd argue if you're going to ignore the source material you shouldn't be adapting it in the first place. Sure, Kubrick's Shining is a rare example of the adaptation being arguably better than the source but that can be seen as the exception.

We've seen time and time again that writers from all backgrounds are willing to remove key parts of a work for seemingly no substantial reason at all.

DuuuDe14 posted...

We've seen time and time again that writers from all backgrounds are willing to remove key parts of a work for seemingly no substantial reason at all.

profit motive

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Well, of nothing else, there has been a noted uptick in writers adapting source material that they loudly and proudly dislike.

The Witcher, Rings of Power, Man of Steel, among others.

Not sure whether that necessarily makes the writing inherrently "worse," but you're certainly going to get a lot more negative reception the more you try to steer a property away from what made fans love it in the first place. And there are a lot of writers today far more eager to "make their mark" than tell a cohesive story.

I don't think it is anymore common. Hollywood has always drastically altered material it's adapting. I think the internet has just given an outlet to be more emotional over it.

As well as being more 'knowledgeable' about things they've never actually read.

If anything with stuff like the MCU I think we've got more faithful adaptations than not these days.

Feels like this thread is all about setting up a strawman then obliterating it "with facts and logic".

I wish steel manning was an actual thing in arguments, not just something occasionally mentioned to make the person saying it appear cool

Punished_Blinx posted...

I don't think it is anymore common. Hollywood has always drastically altered material it's adapting. I think the internet has just given an outlet to be more emotional over it.

As well as being more 'knowledgeable' about things they've never actually read.

If anything with stuff like the MCU I think we've got more faithful adaptations than not these days.

I'm not disagreeing with that. But there's a difference between making changes to make a property more suited to the medium, and then there's "I actively dislike this property, so I'm going to deliberately write the
is story in such a way as to spite it."

Like, Zach Snyder went on record to not liking superman, thinking he was too goody-two-shoes boy scout, unrealistic, all the usual criticisms from people who barely know the character. And it REALLY shows in Man of Steel.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

I'm not disagreeing with that. But there's a difference between making changes to make a property more suited to the medium, and then there's "I actively dislike this property, so I'm going to deliberately write the
is story in such a way as to spite it."

I think that's probably exaggerating the emotion behind why certain decisions are made for each property.

Regardless I don't think anything you listed is as bad as any video game movie made over 5 years ago or most superhero movies back in the day.

I also think you'd find most of the directors and writers overall feel pretty apathetic over the jobs they're assigned to do instead of being able to do what they want to do. Just the nature of the business.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

Like, Zach Snyder went on record to not liking superman, thinking he was too goody-two-shoes boy scout, unrealistic, all the usual criticisms from people who barely know the character. And it REALLY shows in Man of Steel

The reason he was chosen was because gritty reboots were the fad at the time and he had a proven hit with Watchmen. Stuff like that has always happened.

Like I don't think Tim Burton overall gave much of a shit about Batman. Dude killed people and he didn't care. But it worked due to his creative vision anyway and he has a good read on the pulse about making movies about quirky characters.

cjsdowg posted...

Who are these people who like characters who keep making bad choices?

Bojack Horseman is amazing

Punished_Blinx posted...

I think that's probably exaggerating the emotion behind why certain decisions are made for each property.

Regardless I don't think anything you listed is as bad as any video game movie made over 5 years ago or most superhero movies back in the day.

I also think you'd find most of the directors and writers overall feel pretty apathetic over the jobs they're assigned to do instead of being able to do what they want to do. Just the nature of the business.

The reason he was chosen was because gritty reboots were the fad at the time and he had a proven hit with Watchmen. Stuff like that has always happened.

Like I don't think Tim Burton overall gave much of a shit about Batman. Dude killed people and he didn't care. But it worked due to his creative vision anyway and he has a good read on the pulse about making movies about quirky characters.

Sure, I get that; there will always be cynical asshats looking to cash in on a property, like Uwe Boll. The Director for Dragonball Evolution even public ally apologized for doing exactly that. And I doubt that many directors actively care about sources theyre adapting.

But when it comes out that the writing staff for the Witcher actively hate the material and steer away from it on purpose, to such an extent that it gets the lead actor to quit,one has to question why they were given the keys to the car in the first place. I can think of many examples of apathetic directors making something great. I can think of none for antagonistic directors.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

But when it comes out that the writing staff for the Witcher actively hate the material and steer away from it on purpose, to such an extent that it gets the lead actor to quit,one has to question why they were given the keys to the car in the first place.

Has Henry Cavill ever said that was why he left?

Because there's plenty of reasons for him to leave and even disagree with the writers and showrunners outside of them actively hating the material.

DarkBuster22904 posted...

I can think of many examples of apathetic directors making something great. I can think of none for antagonistic directors

Starship Troopers

DarkBuster22904 posted...

I'm not disagreeing with that. But there's a difference between making changes to make a property more suited to the medium, and then there's "I actively dislike this property, so I'm going to deliberately write the
is story in such a way as to spite it."

Like, Zach Snyder went on record to not liking superman, thinking he was too goody-two-shoes boy scout, unrealistic, all the usual criticisms from people who barely know the character. And it REALLY shows in Man of Steel.

I mean, he can dislike or feel spite in someways without treating the material with malicious intent. One facet of Snyders idea was the breathe fresh life and realism into the perspective of Superman like, hey what if everyone doesnt like this guy or there is jealousy and resentment from humans. They dont have the power to give him permission to fill the savior role.

Its opening a new window for people to digest about how it might really play out with a super powered person on Earth, exploring themes of responsibility, accountability, and other unexplored emotions and themes.

Punished_Blinx posted...

I don't think it is anymore common. Hollywood has always drastically altered material it's adapting. I think the internet has just given an outlet to be more emotional over it.

As well as being more 'knowledgeable' about things they've never actually read.

If anything with stuff like the MCU I think we've got more faithful adaptations than not these days.

The MCU has a ton of changes actually. From the things like race swaps regarding characters like the Ancient One. To entire back story and character motivations, like Thanos.

How about john wick? Litterally too manly to seek help getting over his grief. Has temper tantrums driving his car and goes into a murdering spree over a dog.

DuuuDe14 posted...

The MCU has a ton of changes actually. From the things like race swaps regarding characters like the Ancient One. To entire back story and character motivations, like Thanos.

Details like that being change is still way more faithful than what we used to get where characters barely resembled anything outside of a surface level appearance. Sometimes not even that.

That still doesn't make it ok

DuuuDe14 posted...

That still doesn't make it ok

So you're of the opinion that even the MCU changes too much and everything should remain exactly the same?

As close as possible. Obviously adapting comic book stories to live action, you'd have to cut miniscule things for stuff like flow and allowing for action scenes. But otherwise yes.

Big changes like what I mentioned will only fracture fanbases.

I find that a bit of a baffling take for comic books. Which is a medium that features several characters that have only remained relevant due to constant and varied reinterpretations that exist to both modernize and keep up their demographics.

Hell we specifically got a Spider-man movie earlier this year that was specifically about this concept and it's one of the better super hero movies due to its meta villain that represents an audience who demands a rigid status quo.

To me superheroes more represent a mythology that can be flexible more than a predefined series of events and characters.

polopili posted...

How about john wick? Litterally too manly to seek help getting over his grief. Has temper tantrums driving his car and goes into a murdering spree over a dog.

Has anyone ever praised the John Wick movies for their characterizations? The entire franchise is a thinly-veiled excuse to showcase slick action choreography.

darkace77450 posted...

Has anyone ever praised the John Wick movies for their characterizations? The entire franchise is a thinly-veiled excuse to showcase slick action choreography.

Its really all about pure indulgence of the male power fantasy than anything else, which presents some moments of opportunity for the choreography