Current Events > Libertarian professor endorses pedophilia sued to get job back

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MistyKnight
10/01/23 11:40:38 AM
#1:


After being barred from campus.

Fuck libertarians

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/nyregion/suny-fredonia-professor-lawsuit.html

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DrizztLink
10/01/23 11:50:00 AM
#2:


That's redundant, you could have just called him a libertarian.

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Rotterdammerung
10/01/23 11:50:29 AM
#3:


Why do you think theyre libertarians?

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Guide
10/01/23 11:54:07 AM
#4:


From reading up on him, he's not actually endorsing pedophilia. Says right there in the article that he thinks it should still be criminalized. His whole schtick is questioning things that are socially disturbing.

It could just be the whole bad faith preface schtick, though.

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CommonStar
10/01/23 11:55:20 AM
#5:


literally every libertarian when asked about age of consent laws
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mystic_belmont
10/01/23 11:59:01 AM
#6:


Why are libertarians so enamored with age of consent laws?

It's weird.

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ai123
10/01/23 12:03:13 PM
#7:


These are the things Kershnar said:

Imagine that an adult male wants to have sex with a 12-year-old girl. Imagine that shes a willing participant,
A very standard, very widely held view is that theres something deeply wrong about this and its wrong independent of it being criminalized,
Its not obvious to me that its in fact wrong. I think this is a mistake. And I think exploring that why its a mistake will tell us not only things about adult/sex and statutory rape and also fundamental principles of morality,

You want bizarre analogies? He's got 'em:

They might think that children cant be willing things in general. Its an odd view in that they seem to will things all the time. They will participation in kickball. They will showing up and participating in bar mitzvah lessons, bat mitzvah lessons,
You might think that, well, maybe theres something distinct about sex that they cant really understand it. Its not clear to me that what theyre not getting at is consent,
I suspect that what they want to say is that theyre willing participants, theyre voluntary participants. They have some understanding of what is going on. Not the understanding we do, but some understanding. But they havent consented. Perhaps thats so, but thats a different claim from them being unwilling,
Theres a lot of activities that children engage in that they dont understand all that well. For example, when you first show up to participate in a judo tournament or when you prepare for your bar mitzvah. You have a rough idea, but its not clear how much you fully understand it,

And just in case you wanted to hear any more of his opinions:

it is morally permissible and should be legally permissible for state and private professional schools to discriminate against women.
More specifically, I argue that such schools may discount womens [sic] applications to the degree that they are likely to produce less than male counterparts.

Tl;dr he is an apologist for paedophilia.

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David1988
10/01/23 12:04:16 PM
#8:


Is it libertarians that are enamored by age of consent laws or is it because thats the main line of argument against libertarian thought, stuff like age of consent and laws for minors in general. Given libertarian philosophy and its emphasis on freedom from central authority they generally stumble when talking about those cases and the internet makes fun of them for it, as they should.

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MistyKnight
10/01/23 12:18:14 PM
#9:


Rotterdammerung posted...
Why do you think theyre libertarians?
That's how he identifies politically

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the_rowan
10/01/23 12:20:05 PM
#10:


Back in college, I was able to engage a media literacy professor about the ethics of simulated child porn as an outlet to reduce demand for the real thing, for the sake of having a debate about something that most people would not entertain. (I have literally no personal interest in the topic, but I am eternally frustrated at how childishly single-minded people are towards this subject and other similarly uncomfortable ones, not even looking at the current system for failings.)

The article I found unfortunately does not include more than the preface of his argument, in which he says that he will argue why one cannot say it is always wrong for an adult and a 12-year-old girl to have sex to which the girl consents, and examine the morality around this judgment. I personally think this is a pretty extreme example, but I don't get to see his actual argument; it could be something like "This person hypothetically has an unusually developed brain and makes judgments as if she is 25 years old," (leading into "okay, if you don't accept this, at what age do you and why then?" or something like that), or "In this theoretical scenario, her development is not negatively affected, she enjoys the experience, and she goes on to live a happy life. Can we say this was still morally wrong?" or something really out there, for the sake of asking questions about the nature of morality.

If all this man is doing is making controversial arguments about morality as a philosophy professor, and he's facing punitive action for that, something is wrong. But I don't get to see his argument and if it was something really weird.

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Rotterdammerung
10/01/23 12:24:15 PM
#11:


MistyKnight posted...
That's how he identifies politically
Why, you mean?

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ai123
10/01/23 12:25:48 PM
#12:


the_rowan posted...
Back in college, I was able to engage a media literacy professor about the ethics of simulated child porn as an outlet to reduce demand for the real thing, for the sake of having a debate about something that most people would not entertain. (I have literally no personal interest in the topic, but I am eternally frustrated at how childishly single-minded people are towards this subject and other similarly uncomfortable ones, not even looking at the current system for failings.)

The article I found unfortunately does not include more than the preface of his argument, in which he says that he will argue why one cannot say it is always wrong for an adult and a 12-year-old girl to have sex to which the girl consents, and examine the morality around this judgment. I personally think this is a pretty extreme example, but I don't get to see his actual argument; it could be something like "This person hypothetically has an unusually developed brain and makes judgments as if she is 25 years old," (leading into "okay, if you don't accept this, at what age do you and why then?" or something like that), or "In this theoretical scenario, her development is not negatively affected, she enjoys the experience, and she goes on to live a happy life. Can we say this was still morally wrong?" or something really out there, for the sake of asking questions about the nature of morality.

If all this man is doing is making controversial arguments about morality as a philosophy professor, and he's facing punitive action for that, something is wrong. But I don't get to see his argument and if it was something really weird.
His argument is that, if a child is a willing participant, then it is not wrong to have sex with them.

He admits that a child may not fully understand the implications of having sex, but points out that children do not fully understand the implications of bar mitzvah lessons and judo tournaments either. As long as they have a rough idea, it should be fine.

(See post #7 for the direct quotes).

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Solar_Crimson
10/01/23 12:37:46 PM
#13:


ai123 posted...
These are the things Kershnar said:

Imagine that an adult male wants to have sex with a 12-year-old girl. Imagine that shes a willing participant,
A very standard, very widely held view is that theres something deeply wrong about this and its wrong independent of it being criminalized,
Its not obvious to me that its in fact wrong. I think this is a mistake. And I think exploring that why its a mistake will tell us not only things about adult/sex and statutory rape and also fundamental principles of morality,

You want bizarre analogies? He's got 'em:

They might think that children cant be willing things in general. Its an odd view in that they seem to will things all the time. They will participation in kickball. They will showing up and participating in bar mitzvah lessons, bat mitzvah lessons,
You might think that, well, maybe theres something distinct about sex that they cant really understand it. Its not clear to me that what theyre not getting at is consent,
I suspect that what they want to say is that theyre willing participants, theyre voluntary participants. They have some understanding of what is going on. Not the understanding we do, but some understanding. But they havent consented. Perhaps thats so, but thats a different claim from them being unwilling,
Theres a lot of activities that children engage in that they dont understand all that well. For example, when you first show up to participate in a judo tournament or when you prepare for your bar mitzvah. You have a rough idea, but its not clear how much you fully understand it,

And just in case you wanted to hear any more of his opinions:

it is morally permissible and should be legally permissible for state and private professional schools to discriminate against women.
More specifically, I argue that such schools may discount womens [sic] applications to the degree that they are likely to produce less than male counterparts.

Tl;dr he is an apologist for paedophilia.
A misogynist pedophile. What a mix.

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Toonstrack
10/01/23 12:40:21 PM
#14:


I kinds get was hes trying to do but he seems like a genuine idiot otherwise and this really isn't the time or era to even begin to be making these types of arguments. Itd go over better if he was talking about a 15 or 16 year old who is probably already sexually active by then.

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ImagineUsngAlts
10/01/23 12:47:33 PM
#15:


Huh, interesting it was the far right libsoftiktok account that outed him. You'd think they'd well... have the opposite sentiment.

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#16
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ai123
10/01/23 12:48:27 PM
#17:


Toonstrack posted...
I kinds get was hes trying to do but he seems like a genuine idiot otherwise and this really isn't the time or era to even begin to be making these types of arguments. Itd go over better if he was talking about a 15 or 16 year old who is probably already sexually active by then.
That's not the case he's making though. He isn't trying to argue that the aoc should be lowered a bit, or that if a teen is sexually active, they can give consent.

He is outright saying that if a child of any age has some understanding of what sex involves, and is willing, then there is nothing morally wrong with having sex with them. This is a matter of principle to him.

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Shadow_Don
10/01/23 12:48:50 PM
#18:


mystic_belmont posted...
Why are libertarians so enamored with age of consent laws?

It's weird.

Because its a political ideology that is only appealing to incels

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Umbreon
10/01/23 12:51:12 PM
#19:


Solar_Crimson posted...
A misogynist pedophile. What a mix.

Unfortunately makes sense, in a terrible way.

If someone is fine with having sex with a minor, they're probably fine with marrying and knocking up one as well. A 12 year old that's been groomed is probably easier to control than an adult woman who has a better idea of what a creep looks like. Part of the reason they want this shit to be legal is because women want nothing to do with them, where as a preteen may not know better.

In the end, it's a sociopathic mentality that requires one to view women as things instead of people.

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Toonstrack
10/01/23 3:14:07 PM
#20:


ai123 posted...
That's not the case he's making though. He isn't trying to argue that the aoc should be lowered a bit, or that if a teen is sexually active, they can give consent.

He is outright saying that if a child of any age has some understanding of what sex involves, and is willing, then there is nothing morally wrong with having sex with them. This is a matter of principle to him.

Yea thats ridiculous. Yes there are things we allow kids to do that arenr fully understood by them. Those things don't tend to permanently alter a kids life, possibly endanger their lives or others though. A kid isn't economically or emotionally able to birth a child or to deal with STDs. Generally things that aren't reversible shouldn't be done below the 17-18 line.


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Notti
10/04/23 6:20:45 AM
#21:


Umbreon posted...
Unfortunately makes sense, in a terrible way.

If someone is fine with having sex with a minor, they're probably fine with marrying and knocking up one as well. A 12 year old that's been groomed is probably easier to control than an adult woman who has a better idea of what a creep looks like. Part of the reason they want this shit to be legal is because women want nothing to do with them, where as a preteen may not know better.

In the end, it's a sociopathic mentality that requires one to view women as things instead of people.


Precisely.

They want to prey on noobs.


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Vampire_Chicken
10/04/23 7:28:06 AM
#22:


ai123 posted...
He is outright saying that if a child of any age has some understanding of what sex involves, and is willing, then there is nothing morally wrong with having sex with them.
The moral of the story apparently being that if a man wants to have sex with his preteen daughter, he should at least give her a rough description of what he's going to do to her and reassure her that: "daddies and daughters do this all the time, it's perfectly natural. If you really loved your daddy you'd do it with me, so what do you say?". Then this professor will give it a wink and a thumbs up because there's nothing morally wrong with exploiting a child by manipulating her into agreeing to sex.

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Puelto295
10/04/23 7:30:57 AM
#23:


DrizztLink posted...
That's redundant, you could have just called him a libertarian.

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AloneIBreak
10/04/23 7:33:05 AM
#24:


lol I get the idea of a philosophy professor playing devils advocate, but 12 year olds having sex with adults is the way you choose to do it? Come on now dog.

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ai123
10/04/23 7:37:38 AM
#25:


AloneIBreak posted...
lol I get the idea of a philosophy professor playing devils advocate, but 12 year olds having sex with adults is the way you choose to do it? Come on now dog.
He's not playing devil's advocate. He isn't being contrary, provocative, or just asking questions.

He believes this is the position a true libertarian should take.

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ArtiRock
10/04/23 7:40:56 AM
#26:


That's the most bizarre take. Suing because he was banned for legitimate reasons.

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