Current Events > Has your view on vaccines for COVID-19 changed at all?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The thing about conspiracy theories, and the anti-covid-vax stuff is all conspiracy theory based...

Is that you must ignore overwhelming evidence and gaps in your knowledge in order to grasp at threads of inconsistencies or just blindly speculate and make up "facts" out of whole cloth in order for things to fit your desired conclusion.

My opinion on the Covid vaccine is the same as any other vaccine, vitamins , supplements, or medication.

I do what the doctor Ive had for literally the last 30 years advises me to do.

SHRlKE posted...

Out of curiosity what is the efficacy of the Covid vaccine for preventing you from actually catching Covid in the first place? I'm trying to find something from the CDC but it's not easily discovered. I've seen figures ranging from between 40% and 70% reduction in the risk of catching Covid but I'm trying to find a reputable site.

The reason you can't find it is because its probably just not known. Its going to be harder to keep tract of people who catch covid post vaccination because a lot of them probably don't know they have it and don't get tested.

But as you said, even if the number is only 40% then thats still massively important, especially from the macro perspective of stopping the spread.

Torgo posted...

The thing about conspiracy theories

Is that you must ignore overwhelming evidence and gaps in your knowledge ... ... or just blindly speculate and make up "facts" out of whole cloth in order for things to fit your desired conclusion.

This is about anti-vaxx conspiracy, not religion.

Wait...

bigblu89 posted...

My opinion on the Covid vaccine is the same as any other vaccine, vitamins , supplements, or medication.

I do what the doctor Ive had for literally the last 30 years advises me to do.

My regular doctor I'd had for 20 years retired in 2019. But luckily I managed to find a new one whom I trust just as much, so that takes care of the next 20 years.

But having to change doctor after you've had the same one for decades is daunting.

Shadow_Don posted...

The reason you can't find it is because its probably just not known. Its going to be harder to keep tract of people who catch covid post vaccination because a lot of them probably don't know they have it and don't get tested.

But as you said, even if the number is only 40% then thats still massively important, especially from the macro perspective of stopping the spread.

Yes but it goes back to my original point that for some reason people who are for the vaccine seem to be unwilling to accept this is the case and want to keep it a secret for some reason or deflect when asked.

If someone criticised the vaccine because they are told it will stop you catching covid but its efficacy is actually only 40% then you cant help them feel like they are having things kept from them. Because they are. It also goes back to the comment someone made earlier about Covid and Polio vaccine being similar when Polio has an efficacy of preventing Polio of 99.9% and if Covid is only 40% I think its disingenuous to compare the two on that front and use Polio as a reason why Covid vaccine is successful at preventing initial infection when the two efficacies are miles apart.

Im glad we agree even 40% is enough to warrant taking covid vaccine especially as its primary benefit is stopping you getting as serious an infection when you do catch it but the deflection seen on the pro vax side can be seen as being proactively evasive which leads to distrust and thats why as I said above its dangerous to hide things because you worry it will get taken out of context because you just give the malicious anti vax people ammunition where they can easily say see they are hiding things from you!!

psobro posted...

The anti-vaxx accusations are pretty dumb, its apparently a hard pill to swallow for alot of people that others are doing perfectly fine without it. There are people in this world who dont engage in politics at all.

No one gives a rat's ass about your feelings or your politics.

Vaccines are an objectively correct thing and you are objectively wrong.

It's BULLSHIT to make being correct about medicine and science a "poltical view". I will never fucking forgive polticians for permanently ruining faith in medicine with their low-IQ disinformation. They'd have my entire career destroyed if they had their way.

I got the new covid vaccine (Moderna) on Friday. Yesterday I felt tired and had a little muscle pain. Other than doing some laundry I pretty much spent the day resting. Today I feel fine.

Not anti vax but won't get it because of health problems.

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The problem here is lumping everyone in the same group. Not everyone who asks questions on the vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nut. Sometimes people ask questions on the vaccine because they WANT to be educated.

While I'm pro vax and encourage everyone to get vaccinated as well as self isolate while infected I can also easily see how someone who has genuine questions on Covid when faced with deflection or abuse for raising queries to further their self knowledge may feel aggrieved or people are hiding things from them when lumped into the same group as said tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nuts.

SHRlKE posted...

The problem here is lumping everyone in the same group. Not everyone who asks questions on the vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nut. Sometimes people ask questions on the vaccine because they WANT to be educated.

While I'm pro vax and encourage everyone to get vaccinated as well as self isolate while infected I can also easily see how someone who has genuine questions on Covid when faced with deflection or abuse for raising queries to further their self knowledge may feel aggrieved or people are hiding things from them when lumped into the same group as said tin foil hat wearing conspiracy nuts.

How much more education do they need? It's all out there in public to be read if they care so much. If they were this ignorant on vaccines pre-COVID, then why can't they just continue deferring to the people more educated than they are on the matter? What actually changed that made laypeople start thinking they are the experts, but only on vaccines?

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Then you need to step outside into the real world once in a while because a non insignificant amount of normal rationale people who are pro vax go 0-60 incredibly quickly when faced with anyone who dares ask basic questions and get pigeonholed as being anti-vax just as quickly. Just look at your post #210 as a perfect example.

Hell you immediately responded the way you did in #170 as well which is what started this whole train of posts. Dude said he knew someone who still got covid despite being vacinated and you imediately attacked him for being anti vax when it's entirely possible he was telling the turth. Hell we even had some specific posts where we acknowledged the efficacy of the vaccine in terms of preventing covid wasn't that great but it was still high enough to warrant get the vaccine, especially when you take into account the other great benefits of the vaccine which we've already been over.

Now if he'd have come back and discounted our responses I'd be with you 100% but he didn't so I think you were a bit unfair on him taking that post in isolation.

hockeybub89 posted...

How much more education do they need? If they were this ignorant on vaccines pre-COVID, then why can't they just continue deferring to the people more educated than they are on the matter? What actually changed that made laypeople start thinking they are the experts, but only on vaccines?

It's perfectly reasonable to be pro vax before Covid and still have questions on the Covid vaccine when it came out. We've had a few in this very topic about how quickly it was developed that were answered honestly and with respect and the guy accepted the responses. This is how the discourse on vaccines should be.

SHRlKE posted...

Yes but it goes back to my original point that for some reason people who are for the vaccine seem to be unwilling to accept this is the case and want to keep it a secret for some reason or deflect when asked.

I dont think anyone is keeping it a secret, its genuinely just hard to know right now and it also changes as covid mutates.

And while I appreciate that its worth putting effort into answering the questions of the skeptics I think its also important to remember that their questions have been asked and answered over and over again. They just aren't interested in the answers you give them unless they can weave it into the conspiracy narrative they have already established.

Shadow_Don posted...

I dont think anyone is keeping it a secret, its genuinely just hard to know right now and it also changes as covid mutates.

And while I appreciate that its worth putting effort into answering the questions of the skeptics I think its also important to remember that their questions have been asked and answered over and over again. They just aren't interested in the answers you give them unless they can weave it into the conspiracy narrative they have already established.

Am I right in reading your post as suggesting the lines have been drawn and anti vax people will always be anti vax and pro vax people will always be pro vax so it's not worth bothering to engage with anti vax people any more?

If I'm misrepresenting your post I apologize. Hence why I'm asking for clarity.

SHRlKE posted...

It's perfectly reasonable to be pro vax before Covid and still have questions on the Covid vaccine when it came out. We've had a few in this very topic about how quickly it was developed that were answered honestly and with respect and the guy accepted the responses. This is how the discourse on vaccines should be.

Now you're pushing the anti-vax narrative that all reasonable questions on the vaccines have been responded to with venom by everyone since day 1, and that people would rather insult than reveal the truth.

Maybe, people just get tired eventually of responding to "genuine questions" when people have been asking the same questions for years and the answers are widely available and accepted by the experts.

hockeybub89 posted...

Now you're pushing the anti-vax narrative that all reasonable questions on the vaccines have been responded to with venom by everyone since day 1, and that people would rather insult than reveal the truth.

You take a post of mine where I was commending the discourse between someone with a genuine question and a well written response and somehow come up with that conclusion?

hockeybub89 posted...

Maybe, people just get tired eventually of responding to "genuine questions" when people have been asking the same questions for years and the answers are widely available and accepted by the experts.

Yes that's a fair point. In that case the best thing to do is just not respond imo. You don't have to respond to every post or question someone has.

SHRlKE posted...

Yes that's a fair point. In that case the best thing to do is just not respond imo. You don't have to respond to every post or question someone has.

Doesn't that lead to "See I knew it - you don't have an answer, the vaccine really IS a hoax!!"?

SHRlKE posted...

You take a post of mine where I was commending the discourse between someone with a genuine question and a well written response and somehow come up with that conclusion?

I'm sorry if it was wrong. But I have seen such posts that seem to imply what I mentioned.

hockeybub89 posted...

I'm sorry if it was wrong. But I have seen such posts that seem to imply what I mentioned.

You literally quoted the post in question

I've had the first 2 phizer shots + booster and then covid a few months later, so I'm over all of it. If covid and covid vaccines are still a thing when I'm 60 I'll consider it again.

SHRlKE posted...

Am I right in reading your post as suggesting the lines have been drawn and anti vax people will always be anti vax and pro vax people will always be pro vax so it's not worth bothering to engage with anti vax people any more?

It's not that we shouldn't engage with them anymore, its that you're aren't going to convince them with scientific facts and evidence.

The only way to stop this is to get them the fuck away from their misinformation bubble. They mostly need psychiatric help much in the same way cult members do.

Ruvan22 posted...

Doesn't that lead to "See I knew it - you don't have an answer, the vaccine really IS a hoax!!"?

It's not your responsibility to answer everyone's question or respond to every post you disagree with. I'm not suggesting that. But if you aren't going to respond to their question just don't respond at all rather than abusing them. I don't see how that helps anyone.

Shadow_Don posted...

It's not that we shouldn't engage with them anymore, its that you're aren't going to convince them with scientific facts and evidence.

The only way to stop this is to get them the fuck away from their misinformation bubble. They mostly need psychiatric help much in the same way cult members do.

I do agree completely. Some people really are that far gone they need more help than a simple discussion can solve.

I think where we might disagree to which the proportion of people question vaccines are "too far gone" and which are just genuinely asking questions.

Can we at least agree not everyone who questions the vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist?

SHRlKE posted...

Can we at least agree not everyone who questions the vaccine is a tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist?

The venn diagram here is almost a circle.

Is it possible that there exists someone who is skeptical of the vaccine but make good decisions in all other aspects of health and takes all other covid precautions very seriously? Sure. But this is such an extreme outlier its just not worth considering when talking about vaccination strategy.

I haven't seen any evidence that overturns what I already understand so I see no reason to stop, at least for the next couple of years.

SHRlKE posted...

It's not your responsibility to answer everyone's question or respond to every post you disagree with. I'm not suggesting that. But if you aren't going to respond to their question just don't respond at all rather than abusing them. I don't see how that helps anyone.

Your last few posts seemed to imply it was responsibility to educate though - if I misunderstood my apologies.

Also I'm not sure if it "helps", but responding to a question that seems to be in bad faith (asked numerous times before by the same person who then stops responding, calls you a "sheep", etc) by questioning their sincerity seems better than explaining something AGAIN. There's options before "abuse" ...

Shadow_Don posted...

The venn diagram here is almost a circle.

Is it possible that there exists someone who is skeptical of the vaccine but make good decisions in all other aspects of health and takes all other covid precautions very seriously? Sure. But this is such an extreme outlier its just not worth considering when talking about vaccination strategy.

I'm not even necessarily talking people that are skeptical of the vaccine. They way some people go on any sort of questioning of the vaccine makes you anti vax and deserving of ridicule \ abuse despite the fact it's already been stated in this topic there are things we still don't know about the long term efficacy of it.

People need to take the vaccine there are still enough obvious benefits to doing so but without looking into the efficacy of the current vaccine we can't improve it and make sure we learn for the next pandemic so things to make our response then even better.

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I'm from the UK. We are getting there but thankfully we aren't quite up to speed with the US in terms of the crazies so maybe that factors into my interpretation as well. Also when I've had legit questions I know I've had abuse sent my way and felt frustrated at getting nowhere so maybe I'm biased in that regard as well. You are probably right. I probably need sometime away to think. Which is great as me and the wife are about to go out for dinner!

SHRlKE posted...

despite the fact it's already been stated in this topic there are things we still don't know about the long term efficacy of it.

We absolutely do know about the long term efficacy of the vaccine. Its literally saved millions of lives.

I think from the vaccine point of view specifically in my post. What you said is also true obviously.

Shadow_Don posted...

We absolutely do know about the long term efficacy of the vaccine. Its literally saved millions of lives.

Yes but we also know we need boosters to keep up the protection and the vaccine needs to be modified to take into account new variants. It would also be great if we can increase the protection from catching Covid in the first place with the vaccine which has already been discussed in this topic.

Right I need to go out for dinner with my wife. Will check back on here tomorrow if there are any good posts that come up. Have a good evening y'all.

I got the Pfizer. I don't think I'll get any more. I don't care if other people are vaccinated.

Did I miss anything new?

Saw X was crap btw.

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Yes. Vaccinated and boosted. Waiting on the most recent booster till I know for use that my insurance will cover it.

Dark_Arbron posted...

My regular doctor I'd had for 20 years retired in 2019. But luckily I managed to find a new one whom I trust just as much, so that takes care of the next 20 years.

But having to change doctor after you've had the same one for decades is daunting.

Yeah, I thankfully have had the same doctor for going on 27 years. He's changed practices about 6 times, and getting near retirement though, so I'll probably be looking for one soon.

Has your view on vaccines for COVID-19 changed at all?

No, but my opinion towards anti-vaxxers has considerably soured.

LeoRavus posted...

I've had the first 2 phizer shots + booster and then covid a few months later, so I'm over all of it. If covid and covid vaccines are still a thing when I'm 60 I'll consider it again.

I never got vaccinated for covid but got it in May. That week, I was still cooking for my family, I made sure to mask up and isolate myself since we were all supposed to go on a trip (had to cancel my tickets). No one got sick, they went on their way, and I, chillin' at home since the worst part was the second day.

Fuck, I never felt more liberated in my life after getting it. I holed myself up in my house for YEARS, from BEFORE the official lockdowns for this? I spent all this time, YEARS, terrified, monitoring the death rates and all the covid news, (on some of the most notorious sites because mainstream media was just TOO SLOW) for this? Come. On!

Stopped masking (unless I'm in a vicinity where it's expected), stopped caring. No longer was I that one dude who wore a mask at a gym, no longer was I that one guy sitting at the restaurant table with a mask.

So yeah, when I'm hitting 60 and hitting the ages that are most susceptible to covid, yeah I'll get vaccinated.

Until then, lmao.

GregsMedley posted...

You will have caught COVID at least a dozen times by the time you're 60 and it likely will not be as easy of a time as you experienced the first time. Everyone is susceptible to long term issues and death from COVID.

Yeah but what are the odds for a dude in his early 30's? Not high enough to make me worry. If I get covid next decade, and I don't fare too well, then I'll consider.

But now? lmao.