Current Events > Scalper:''It's not greed... Its the knowledge to know what to buy to make money'

(+) Yeah! (+)

potdnewb posted...

retailers are not allowed to price gouge

and you think they don't?
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/0/6/AAJxOBAAE4Z2.jpg

potdnewb posted...

there is a huge difference retailers are not allowed to price gouge scalpers price gouge greatly

What's allowed in the US largely seems to depend on your wealth and status.

Guide posted...

That depends on if being true is the same as being a good argument, to you.

SOME people being willing to pay a greater amount does not make it a true argument, no. Especially since the business itself doesn't see that money. The business, itself, sets their price based on what they think people are capable/willing to pay. The reason it's stated that scalpers "inflate" that price is that... They don't need to sell to 100,000 people, like an actual retailer/business does. They merely need to sell to 1, 5, 12 people, whatever their smaller stock amount is. Thus, it's not fair to equate that to actual fair market value, because they obviously have a smaller sample size to work with.

Scalpers get to set higher prices because they need to move a much, much smaller amount than an actual business needs to move. But when you have many scalpers doing the same thing, then it leads to an artificial price increase.

Avirosb posted...

What's allowed in the US largely seems to depend on your wealth and status.

Guide posted...

and you think they don't?

if retailers were gouging then there prices would be the same as scalpers
its always funny when people who have no idea how economics work complain about retail pricing and yes scalpers are bad people

Scalping is part of capitalism. If people are willing to buy from scalpers the inflated cost, than it can be argued that the MSRP wasn't the true value of said product. Buying from a scalper at an inflated cost is no different than if a store selling something at an inflated cost.

With all that said, fuck scalpers, especially ones that use bots to create artificial scarcity.

Retailers are only not allowed to "price gouge" in the US in specific circumstances ie for necessities in time of emergency. Price gouging itself doesn't really have a single definition but the idea is prices beyond a 'reasonable' level taking advantage of the buyer's inability to wait or seek alternatives.

Otherwise, retailers can basically charge whatever they want for whatever they want. The theory is that market forces such as a competing retailer lowering their prices will force such retailers to bring theirs down, and where that eventually lands is 'reasonable'. Of course in reality capitalism benefits owners and producers over laborers and consumers.

Prestoff posted...

Scalping is part of capitalism. If people are willing to buy from scalpers the inflated cost, than it can be argued that the MSRP wasn't the true value of said product. Buying from a scalper at an inflated cost is no different than if a store selling something at an inflated cost.

With all that said, fuck scalpers, especially ones that use bots to create artificial scarcity.

And also fuck big companies for manufacturing artificial scarcity (an old and well known tactic of toy makers).

Looking at you, Nintendo.

Prestoff posted...

Scalping is part of capitalism. If people are willing to buy from scalpers the inflated cost, than it can be argued that the MSRP wasn't the true value of said product. Buying from a scalper at an inflated cost is no different than if a store selling something at an inflated cost.

With all that said, fuck scalpers, especially ones that use bots to create artificial scarcity.

This argument is pretty demonstrably untrue, since if that was the case, the retailers/businesses would simply... Charge more.

Scalpers only get to charge more by causing artificial scarcity, and getting to set price based on a smaller amount of unit sales needed.

potdnewb posted...

if retailers were gouging then their* prices would be the same as scalpers

Why do they need to be the same price as scalpers for it to be price gouging? Market control allowing an artificial price raise is still gouging.

StealThisSheen posted...

The business, itself, sets their price based on what they think people are capable/willing to pay.

no the price is based off of what the manufacturer charges for the products and the overhead of running a store plus what is usually only a small profit
scalpers set the price based off the retail price and what inflated price people are willing pay for novelty items usually two to four times the retail price

Dark_Arbron posted...

And also fuck big companies for manufacturing artificial scarcity (an old and well known tactic of toy makers).

Looking at you, Nintendo.

This argument also seems rather shortsighted, since... Nintendo literally does not benefit from artificial scarcity. They, like any business, provide numbers based on, in their experience, what actually sells.

It's the scalpers that create the scarcity, since they buy up all the product before actual normal purchasers get the chance to.

StealThisSheen posted...

They don't need to sell to 100,000 people, like an actual retailer/business does.

Are, say, luxury car manufacturers an actual business, under this definition? Auction houses? Realtors?

it is very telling what users are saying "mm scalpers give me more ill swallow it all" lmao

StealThisSheen posted...

This argument also seems rather shortsighted, since... Nintendo literally does not benefit from artificial scarcity. They, like any business, provide numbers based on, in their experience, what actually sells.

It's the scalpers that create the scarcity, since they buy up all the product before actual normal purchasers get the chance to.

You believe that Nintendo only released a tiny number of amiibo at roughly the same time they shipped 10 million copies of Pokmon Sun/Moon because they couldnt afford to?

Its the toy maker strategy. Release a tiny amount to build up hype, then later release them in a proper amount at a higher price and everyone jumps all over them.

potdnewb posted...

if retailers were gouging then there prices would be the same as scalpers

Big pharma's been doing that for some time.

Dark_Arbron posted...

You believe that Nintendo only released a tiny number of amiibo at roughly the same they shipped 10 million copies of Pokmon Sun/Moon because they couldnt afford to?

Its the toy maker strategy. Release a tiny amount to build up hype, then later release them in a proper amount at a higher price and everyone jumps all over them.

Except they never actually release that later "proper amount," which should tell us... Yes, they release the initial amount based on what average sales numbers dictate.

Nintendo has done Amiibo restocks before, and they didn't sell very well, which lead to stores ordering less Amiibo overall due to having to clearance items out.

And then scalpers noticed this, and took full advantage.

Ferroseed posted...

it is very telling what users are saying "mm scalpers give me more ill swallow it all" lmao

Are they saying that? Or are they making the point that the lines between "scalping" and standard business practices are blurrier than some think?

Ferroseed posted...

it is very telling what users are saying "mm scalpers give me more ill swallow it all" lmao

When the scalper is too busy with his victims bending over. That's just bad form that is.

Intro2Logic posted...

Are they saying that? Or are they making the point that the lines between "scalping" and standard business practices are blurrier than some think?

At the end of the day, anybody pretending to be "anti-capitalism predators," and yet defending scalpers... Well, they're just bullshitters.

StealThisSheen posted...

This argument also seems rather shortsighted, since... Nintendo literally does not benefit from artificial scarcity.

Branded IP merchandise is effectively a form of monopoly because nobody else can create that same product. You can't sell it unless you've already bought it from Nintendo, who can choose exactly how many of say a Pikachu van gogh plush exist. So yes Nintnedo benefits from artificial scarcity. It's as artificial as scarcity exists, enforced by law thus ignoring competing market forces.

StealThisSheen posted...

It's the scalpers that create the scarcity, since they buy up all the product before actual normal purchasers get the chance to.

If scalpers buy up let's say 90% of the stock through bots (which is wrong categorically but beside the point on pricing), they still did not create the scarcity. Nintendo chose to only create that much product. Also, scalpers collectively have weaker market power than a single company, since scalpers are each out for themselves and thus compete with other individual scalpers' prices.

Intro2Logic posted...

Are they saying that?

yes

Doe posted...

If scalpers buy up let's say 90% of the stock through bots (which is wrong categorically but beside the point on pricing), they still did not create the scarcity. Nintendo chose to only create that much product

...Okay, wow, yeah, we're done, here. You're going to defend scalping no matter what, you've proven that.

StealThisSheen posted...

This argument is pretty demonstrably untrue, since if that was the case, the retailers/businesses would simply... Charge more.

There are already cases of this happening, especially among collectable items. Hell, the most recent example that comes to mind are Lorcana Cards where you have even local card shops selling packs at the scalper prices, with the big reasoning behind it was because the manufacturers who made the cards severely underestimated how much people actually want them.

Do note that major retail stores like Target and Walmart are usually ones that are not allowed to up sale the collector items, but that's a store only reason and not because it's "illegal". The only time inflating prices becomes illegal is for necessity's at times of emergency like face masks, and that normally only applies to retail stores.

StealThisSheen posted...

Scalpers only get to charge more by causing artificial scarcity, and getting to set price based on a smaller amount of unit sales needed.

I agree, but the other reason can also be when a company is incompetent and severely underestimates the value of the product, Nintendo being the biggest offender for it. Hell the classic NES they sold, they knew how much people wanted it and yet still didn't make a lot of it, which just made it ripe for scalping.

StealThisSheen posted...

...Okay, wow, yeah, we're done, here. You're going to defend scalping no matter what, you've proven that.

Oh, yeah. Whoops

That's what I get for defending someone I had tagged.

StealThisSheen posted...

At the end of the day, anybody pretending to be "anti-capitalism predators," and yet defending scalpers... Well, they're just bullshitters.

"Defending scalpers" is very loaded language. I don't think anyone ITT thinks scalpers are some kind of force for good on Earth, or that they aren't greedy. For me, I think that people place an irrational amount of anger at scalpers because they feel entitled to something's list price, when the list price is arbitrary. The company outright could get away with charging you just as much as a scalper does (or if not you, then enough people to sell out their stock).

Guide posted...

Oh, yeah. Whoops

That's what I get for defending someone I had tagged.

Honestly, respect for noticing. We're cool, sorry if I was aggressive.

@StealThisSheen posted...

...Okay, wow, yeah, we're done, here. You're going to defend scalping no matter what, you've proven that.

Instead of a Twitter clapback, I would appreciate you taking a moment to explain what you think scarcity is and why the second hand purchasers of a limited good are creating the scarcity, rather than its manufacturer. I think I'm a reasonable poster and I'm certainly one of the more left-wing posters on CE, and I'd like to resolve our disagreement on this rather than posture and split off.

Doe posted...

Branded IP merchandise is effectively a form of monopoly because nobody else can create that same product. You can't sell it unless you've already bought it from Nintendo, who can choose exactly how many of say a Pikachu van gogh plush exist.

In theory. Two things. 1) Fan artists are regularly commissioned to create art of intellectual properties they don't own the rights to, and frequently do so.
2) Nintendo alone does not own Pokemon.

Prestoff posted...

I agree, but the other reason can also be when a company is incompetent and severely underestimates the value of the product, Nintendo being the biggest offender for it. Hell the classic NES they sold, they knew how much people wanted it and yet still didn't make a lot of it, which just made it ripe for scalping.

You also need to procure enough components for your hardware.
Even Sony struggle with this at times.

Avirosb posted...

In theory. Two things. 1) Fan artists are regularly commissioned to create art of intellectual properties they don't own the rights to, and frequently do so.
2) Nintendo alone does not own Pokemon.

Shh. He's desperate to defend scalping, he doesn't want to deal with actual facts.

Unlike other aspects of a supply chain scalpers insert themselves as middle men to provide no service whatsoever. The only thing that they do is make themselves money at the expense of the public.

Avirosb posted...

Nintendo alone does not own Pokemon.

I think "The Pokmon Company" would be more precise language, but the point pretty much stands. The owner(s) of the Pokmon IP have no incentive or desire to compete against themselves.

Avirosb posted...

Fan artists are regularly commissioned to create art of intellectual properties they don't own the rights to, and frequently do so.

I don't know that commissioned fanart IS legal technically. Though it certainly does happen, as does the knockoff manufacture of say a Pikachu plush. However, in terms of commodities, neither of those are really interchangeable with the official merchandise, so when it comes to something like these recent Pokmon Van Gogh themed merch, it's basically Pokmon Company who is fully in control of its supply.

Smashingpmkns posted...

Why would it be lust? Lol

Lust just means a very strong desire. And gluttony is an insatiable addiction.

Both describe scalpers.

StealThisSheen posted...

Shh. He's desperate to defend scalping, he doesn't want to deal with actual facts.

I think you are very emotionally invested in this discussion, and that is honestly distorting your view of my beliefs and my intentions.

Doe posted...

I think you are very emotionally invested in this discussion, and that is honestly distorting your view of my beliefs and my intentions.

Or your beliefs and intentions are foolish, like literally every single person here is telling you.

Doe posted...

I don't know that commissioned fanart IS legal technically.

It's very much not legal but few bother to make something of it.

"It's all about money, but we're not greedy."

Lmao.

Avirosb posted...

Not much difference between a business and a scalper when it comes to jacked up prices.

Outside the fact that businesses for the most part adhere to the MSRP
set by manufacturers versus scalpers setting them to the demands of scarcity that they themselves basically created.

Guide posted...

Running a business and getting stock from a paid supplier is a form of capitalism, but capitalism is not contingent upon running a business and getting stock from a paid supplier.

Never mind that there is no fundamental difference in your descriptions. A scalper and a business (at least the business model in your description) both pay a supplier in order to sell the stock they gain at higher prices.

Again choose to ignore things to make scalpers look fine isnt a good thing here.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Scalpers deal in impatience and FOMO, while capitalism lives for the long tail.
A capitalist that goes short-term, doesn't remain a capitalist for very long. Sometimes that is done intentionally, such as Sears.

Are you nuts? Capitalism is all about short term gains.

Baha05 posted...

Outside the fact that businesses for the most part adhere to the MSRP

So the MSRP is what decides to make drugs so expensive?

Avirosb posted...

So the MSRP is what decides to make drugs so expensive?

Drugs might fall under a different thing but its close enough to it. That doesnt justify what scalpers do.

Baha05 posted...

Drugs might fall under a different thing but its close enough to it. That doesnt justify what scalpers do.

With the alleged injustice and heavy regulation you'd think there'd be laws against it.

I make a living making you pay more for stuff is every middle man ever

Timmyjinkle posted...

The bourgeoisie scalp the proletariat's labor, every minute of every hour, of everyday of every year and you DARE to be incensed by someone mentioning that it's doublethink to hate scalping but not capitalism itself?

1 of the key issues is some things are limited in quantity, so people can have different attitudes to both.

Agonized_rufous posted...

I make a living making you pay more for stuff is every middle man ever

But usually the middle man gives some kind of benefit for the customer, as they usually take care of some parts of distribution and logicisting, and also act as your first adress if you have some issues.

The average scalper even removes some benefits.

Good luck dealing with a random scalper if your PS5 suddenly acts up after a week. That's already going to be annoying with the big chains or Amazon, but it's borderline hopeless with some 2nd hand scalper purchase.

I dont understand how scalpers make money.

Back when PS5 was sold out in all stores, I kept seeing them for sale under MSRP online.

How can you make a profit selling something under MSRP?

Scalping necessities is bad.

Scalping luxury items like game consoles is whatever.

Timmyjinkle posted...

People hate Scalpers, but literally put most Capitalists on a pedestal, when they do the exact same thing. Cognitive dissonance to the max, baby!

However, when you realize that "they" control the narrative, it's no wonder that's the case.

Why the fuck is the word they in quotation marks?

NittanyLions23 posted...

I dont understand how scalpers make money.

Back when PS5 was sold out in all stores, I kept seeing them for sale under MSRP online.

How can you make a profit selling something under MSRP?

There was a small-ish to decent size window of time where people were willing to pay up to like double MSRP for a PS5, but that window was shut within like a year.

Even so, by the time you buy a PS5, after tax, you're going to have to charge at least $600 so you make something back, and as soon as bots and supply issues were addressed, scalpers soon found themselves with a bunch of stock and no market to sell to.

So while it was possible to make money as a scalper with PS5s, you'd have had to already be ready and have bots available to buy them and then immediately be turning around and selling them at a sweet spot.

And even then, you weren't going to make more than maybe $300 per console sold and the amount of money scalpers spent, it's unlikely they actually made (serious) money. Because they got greedy and what profits they made to start, they immediately turned around to buy more stock to scalp.

The stock market is greed.