Current Events > On Trans People in Sports

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tanthalas posted...

Yeah, Im sure your debates on GameFAQs or at the pub make you an expert on the topic. /rollseyes

And Im not claiming that transitioning doesnt affect the physical abilities of trans women. Is making stuff up how youve been winning these debates?

Cis men as a population group have a substantial amount of more privilege and opportunity, not to mention the disparity in sheer population numbers. It's a complete nonstarter and reveals stunning ignorance on the topic.

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/5/0/AAEhCpAAE4K6.png

Tanthalas posted...

biological males

This is transphobic and pseudoscientific goobledygok to make it sound like you actually know what you're talking about.

We have plenty of data to prove that transwomen are not dominating women's sports and do not need to be banned.

Yet we still have folks going on about advantages that do not exist in presentable data to support bans.

LSGW_Zephyra posted...

No, across the board.

https://www.healio.com/news/endocrinology/20220120/bmd-higher-for-transgender-men-lower-for-transgender-women-vs-cisgender-controls

Pretty sure that article is only comparing bone density on cis men vs. trans women and cis women vs. trans men, and saying cis men > trans women, trans men > cis women. I didn't find any comparison for trans women vs. cis women, or the raw data, unless I am just misreading it

Tanthalas posted...

The problem is we do have plenty of data that biological males perform better than biological females in a variety of competitions.

What does that have to do with trans women?

Gwynevere posted...

What does that have to do with trans women?

Nothing. He just wants to equate the two so as to support bans when the evidence concerning transwomen sharing all these advantages that would back up a ban does not exist.

"There's not enough to prove transwomen are bad but men are bad so we should ban transwomen."

It's scientifically and medically inaccurate, as well as potentially harmful, to label a woman who is trans and has medically transitioned as "male."

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She's also got swords. Like LOTS of swords.

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

Pretty sure that article is only comparing bone density on cis men vs. trans women and cis women vs. trans men, and saying cis men > trans women, trans men > cis women. I didn't find any comparison for trans women vs. cis women, or the raw data, unless I am just misreading it

Ugh, I'm trying to find exact numbers but it's proving to be quite the pain in the ass. I have found ones for fracture rates and a couple other things that mention Trans women and cis women being similar but not the numbers or the article that made me say that to begin with.

Let's just assume it's not true for the sake of this and move on. It's not actually relevant and I didn't include it in the evidentiary section of my analysis. If I find it I'll shoot it to you but I can't spend more time ATM to look for it.

LSGW_Zephyra posted...

Ugh, I'm trying to find exact numbers but it's proving to be quite the pain in the ass. I have found ones for fracture rates and a couple other things that mention Trans women and cis women being similar but not the numbers or the article that made me say that to begin with.

Let's just assume it's not true for the sake of this and move on. It's not actually relevant and I didn't include it in the evidentiary section of my analysis. If I find it I'll shoot it to you but I can't spend more time ATM to look for it.

No worries, I couldn't find the raw data either for the comparison, I was just curious

AngelsNAirwav3s posted...

No worries, I couldn't find the raw data either for the comparison, I was just curious

If you can find BMD for trans women I have the BMD for both cis men and cis women. At least for now. Yay research!

KitKats posted...

It's scientifically and medically inaccurate, as well as potentially harmful, to label a woman who is trans and has medically transitioned as "male."

That's what gets me. Like, enough changes happen over time if you're medically transitioning that "biologically male" doesn't seem like a very accurate description to me. I mean I'm only a year in and I've experienced a ton of changes already, I imagine things will be vastly different at 2 years, 5 years, etc.

More people in women's sports that are skilled is a good thing imo.

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What do you mean by gendered young minorities as opposed to young minorities?

Who cares if someone is trans or not? If they're good at a sport and work hard then they get a chance to compete like everybody else. End of fucking story.

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You said the focus of the study is on sex and romance so it's implied and common knowledge that different genders would have different experiences. As a result, saying you're studying "gendered young minorities" comes out off as redundant to me within the context. Doesn't need to be in the title.

just nitpicking.

Lil_Bit83 posted...

Who cares if someone is trans or not?

People who don't want to see trans individuals competing.

That's where you see these bans get pushed. Don't allow them to compete as their gender then when a trans man dominates a female competition he gets banned and when a trans woman can't compete in the men's league she stops playing.

That the study focuses on gender as much as their minority status and the differences they experience base on gender. cis men, cis women, non-binary, trans men, and trans women all have different experiences and difficulties. So gender plays a huge part in the study.

So a study on intersectionality?

I wish the analyzed data was more important than the intent and spin put on it. So much arguing isn't even real arguing, and even the sources for data already have firm convictions.

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And it can't be about the "advantages" either because they want to also ban GAC as a whole, especially so before puberty which would force them to have the "advantages" they want to use to ban them from sports.

Actually, I thought of a good question that can maybe sidestep a lot of the posturing, and it's something I rarely ever see in the news, and wouldn't know how to really deep dive into: What are the stats, and public reception, of trans men competing? Like literally all the stuff that comes up is on trans women. Do trans men and women have similar win rates? Does the public feel the same?

Guide posted...

What are the stats, and public reception, of trans men competing?

I only know of one case where Texas forced a transitioning trans man to compete with the girls in Olympic wrestling, HS age I want to say.

The results went about as you would expect of someone who had been taking testosterone supplements for a noticeable period of time up until shortly before a competition. As well as clearly pointed out half the issue with "compete as your AGAB" laws.

mystic_belmont posted...

There was that one MMA fighter, but that's about it.

Trans athletes were supposed to dominate all sports, but it just doesn't happen. HRT and testosterone blockers largely help.

There is an argument about bone density, but it's flimsy at best.

Are you talking about fallon fox?

She got fucking destroyed when she finally got to fight an actual ufc fighter who was like low tier in the ufc.

Then nobody ever talked about fox again.

Shadow_Don posted...

Are you talking about fallon fox?

She got fucking destroyed when she finally got to fight an actual ufc fighter who was like low tier in the ufc.

Then nobody ever talked about fox again.

Isn't their a trans MMA fighter that used to be in the military or something?

I don't remember the specifics because my brother was complaining about her.

mystic_belmont posted...

Isn't their a trans MMA fighter that used to be in the military or something?

I don't remember the specifics because my brother was complaining about her.

I'm not sure about current fighters but Fallon Fox was the person who basically sparked this trans sports madness when Joe Rogan started complaining about her like 8 years ago. He used the bone density argument. I think she was in the navy so maybe that's who you are talking about.

But yea as soon as she squared up with a ufc fighter she got destroyed. I'm guessing your brother conveniently leaves that part out of the narrative.

Shadow_Don posted...

I'm guessing your brother conveniently leaves that part out of the narrative.

Or was never given it by the folks feeding him(the brother) information to "prove" how dangerous trans athletes are.